DKsUnite wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You're all asking for like every skill to be changed, dreams don't come true in this game.

Hence why I wrote I don't think everything should be done but giving suggestions on everything gives a better chance they will take something from the list

Moglijuana wrote: »

What about changing one of the spiked armor morphs (the shield one is literally useless) to inflict major defile to enemies who hit you? It should have a cool down of course. DK's have no class execute, use dots that can be easily purged, and have no abilities that hit harder while a target is at low health, it is extremely easy to out heal the damage from a MagDK. With some major defile thrown in by getting hit (because let's face it, MagDK's are ALWAYS getting hit) it would be a bit easier to time combos and put a bit more pressure on opponents rather than waiting for a meteor-> fossilize killing blow (which doesn't even work sometimes...)

Moglijuana wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

What about changing one of the spiked armor morphs (the shield one is literally useless) to inflict major defile to enemies who hit you? It should have a cool down of course. DK's have no class execute, use dots that can be easily purged, and have no abilities that hit harder while a target is at low health, it is extremely easy to out heal the damage from a MagDK. With some major defile thrown in by getting hit (because let's face it, MagDK's are ALWAYS getting hit) it would be a bit easier to time combos and put a bit more pressure on opponents rather than waiting for a meteor-> fossilize killing blow (which doesn't even work sometimes...)

i think that would make stam DK too strong and DK in groups way too strong because you can stack that with fasalla

Oh true I forgot about that set. Is fasallas its own debuff? Or is it called Major Defile?

Sharee wrote: »

Dragon blood would work fine if it just did what the tooltip says. That means the healing would be based on the ratio of max health to current health, and nothing else(so no buffing it beyond tooltip value), but would be unaffected by battle spirit.
Exactly 33% health bar restored when cast near-death.

I don't think this would be unbalanced considering a templar can achieve the same result with BoL(and at any health level, and on other targets than himself...)

Kilandros wrote: »

Can't have a DK discussion without the one and only @vortexman11

Ishammael wrote: »

Ishammael's suggestions:


Standard of Might
- I think this is OK. Because the list of buffs is so good, and its the #1 PvE ultimate, it should stay.

Shifting Standard
- Keep and heal debuff as-is
- Add a HoT and Minor Protection to allies that stand in the area of effect

Empowering Chains
- Remove Major Expedition and Empower
- Rework the "out-to-in" animation so that your character immediately moves forward when cast (like Invasion).
- Add a 2s knockdown and ~5s Major Breach
- The damage component should be an AoE fire DoT similar to Volatile Armor

Burning Embers
- Strong skill, no changes

Flame Lash
- Disagree on damage buffs
- DK damage is, and should be, the set of compiled DoTs on your opponent -- DK damage should come from outlasting your opponent.
- If DK receives defensive buffs, damage on whip will be fine because the DK player will be allowed to make better gearing choices to increase damage.

Inferno
- Skill has been useless since 1.5, needs to be completely re-worked
- Has the coolest animation of any skill in the entire game -- please keep this animation!!!!!!
- Morph 1: 6m range, AoE DoT that scales damage based on how long the opponent stands in its range.
- Morph 2: AoE HoT that scales the heal based on how many enemies are within range
- Do NOT make this a toggle
- Do NOT make this drain mana
- Choose an appropriate duration according to the power of the skill: 10s or so

Dragon Leap
- Good for stam builds. No changes.

Volatile Armor
- Strong skill, increase damage returned by ~10%

Hardened Armor
- Shield and Ward are two difference defense mechanisms -- don't think they should be on the same skill
- Remove shield
- Add Minor protection
- Now the player has to choose between a damage morph and a defensive morph

Burning Talons
- Probably the best DK skill now. No changes

Choking Talons
- Should do Magic damage. Otherwise the damage debuff is really strong.

Dragon Blood
- Leo, your analysis of the Health vs Magicka vs Stam trade is spot-on. To summarize: for ALL stam and magicka builds except mDK the primary damage resource is also the primary healing resource, e.g. if I increase my damage I also increase my defense.
- Dragon Blood is completely non-competitive in this environment.
- Proposed solution: simply exclude from the Battle spirit debuff.
- Replace GDB buffs with their "Minor" variants as they are redundant with potions

Reflective Plate
- Remove Minor Ward, its ***
- Increase projectiles reflected to 8
- CRITICAL: For both Reflective and Dragon Fire Scale, if a reflected skill contains a DoT component or a debuff (e.g. Venom arrow, Lethal injection) and that projectile is reflected, the DoT/Debuff STILL APPLIES to the DK. This, in most cases, completely defeats the purpose of the reflect. This should be recognized as a bug and fixed.

Dragon Fire Scale
- Good skill. No changes.

Draw Essence
- This skill was hugely nerfed when the number of targets increased to 6.
- It used to return mana based on the total damage done to targets. The current version which refends 10% of original cost per target is complete junk compared to the interrupt on Deep Breath

Elder Dragon
- Remove Health Recovery
- Make this reduce the duration of debuffs by 20%

Scaled Armor
- Should also give physical resist of same amount

Corrosive Armor
- Add spell penetration

Obsidian Shard
- Reduce cost by 20%
- Add Minor Maim

Stone Giant
- Re-work into a stamina skill
- Physical Damage

Igneous Weapons
- Small amount of AoE fire damage (6m, ~6k, like Voltaile)
- Five minor buffs: Ward, Resolve, Heroism, Sorcery, Brutality for 20s

Molten Armaments
- Good skill, leave as-is

Igneous Shield
- Good skill, no need to change

Fragmented Shield
- Simply boost the damage

Fossilize / Shattering Rocks
- Both are excellent choices. Leave as-is.

Eruption
- Good skill, leave as is. (especially for PvE)

Cinder Storm
- Used to be my favorite skill in the entire game
- Change to be ground-targeted at your feet like it used to be
- Add Major Evasion while standing in it.
- Reduce the snare to 20%.

Mountain's Blessing
- Remove Minor Brutality -- it is now on Igneous Weapons
- Rework the ultimate gain functionality
- The DK should be awarded ultimate for high-risk actions. For instance: award X ultimate when health drops below 50% and 2*X when below 25%.
- Cooldown: 2s
- Suggested X = 5.

Bashev wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Dragon blood would work fine if it just did what the tooltip says. That means the healing would be based on the ratio of max health to current health, and nothing else(so no buffing it beyond tooltip value), but would be unaffected by battle spirit.
Exactly 33% health bar restored when cast near-death.

I don't think this would be unbalanced considering a templar can achieve the same result with BoL(and at any health level, and on other targets than himself...)

33% is not enough if the increased healing doesnt apply. I will give you an example. Average health for players is 25k, if you drop to 5k and you cast the skill, it will heal you for 6.6k and you will have 11.6k. Less than 50% and you are still in execute range of RD and executioner. And again you need another healing skill cause this one is uselless.

DKsUnite wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Dragon blood would work fine if it just did what the tooltip says. That means the healing would be based on the ratio of max health to current health, and nothing else(so no buffing it beyond tooltip value), but would be unaffected by battle spirit.
Exactly 33% health bar restored when cast near-death.

I don't think this would be unbalanced considering a templar can achieve the same result with BoL(and at any health level, and on other targets than himself...)

33% is not enough if the increased healing doesnt apply. I will give you an example. Average health for players is 25k, if you drop to 5k and you cast the skill, it will heal you for 6.6k and you will have 11.6k. Less than 50% and you are still in execute range of RD and executioner. And again you need another healing skill cause this one is uselless.

33% is perfectly fine. It worked so well before 1.7, if you watch old videos, most DKs were getting 50% heals at near death which is more then enough.

DKsUnite wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Dragon blood would work fine if it just did what the tooltip says. That means the healing would be based on the ratio of max health to current health, and nothing else(so no buffing it beyond tooltip value), but would be unaffected by battle spirit.
Exactly 33% health bar restored when cast near-death.

I don't think this would be unbalanced considering a templar can achieve the same result with BoL(and at any health level, and on other targets than himself...)

33% is not enough if the increased healing doesnt apply. I will give you an example. Average health for players is 25k, if you drop to 5k and you cast the skill, it will heal you for 6.6k and you will have 11.6k. Less than 50% and you are still in execute range of RD and executioner. And again you need another healing skill cause this one is uselless.

33% is perfectly fine. It worked so well before 1.7, if you watch old videos, most DKs were getting 50% heals at near death which is more then enough.

First @Sharee said that this value should be fixed 33% and nothing would affect it. That is why I said it is not enough. Then it is not possible to go over 50% as you said. It was possible in 1.7 because all the passives that increase healing are applied to the skill. The skill was really good before 1.6 when the damage was capped and all executes were crap. Since then the damage is so high that the skill cannot save you. Most of the people use Coagulating Blood for the 20% more healing received and unless you have 50k hp the heals are terrible. Combine this will all the healing debuffs in Cyro and it is even worse.

oh, well i think the 33% should be a base and be scale-able from there. Remove battle spirit debuff and its fixed (Y)

DKsUnite wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

You're all asking for like every skill to be changed, dreams don't come true in this game.

Hence why I wrote I don't think everything should be done but giving suggestions on everything gives a better chance they will take something from the list

Sharee wrote: »

The problem with it not being fixed is that it is possible to boost DB to very high levels with the right setup. I remember a thread where someone did a build that, in PvE, healed 98% of his HP in a single cast.

I know that this build would not work in PvP, but while it is theoretically possible, ZOS might argue "if DB can reach healing values comparable to templar BoL, we can not with clear conscience make one extempt from battle spirit and not the other"

Thus, my proposal of fixing it at 33%, because 33% is much better what we have now, and gives ZOS an excuse for battle spirit exemption, while keeping the "spirit of the original intent for the ability", so to say.

DKsUnite wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

The problem with it not being fixed is that it is possible to boost DB to very high levels with the right setup. I remember a thread where someone did a build that, in PvE, healed 98% of his HP in a single cast.

I know that this build would not work in PvP, but while it is theoretically possible, ZOS might argue "if DB can reach healing values comparable to templar BoL, we can not with clear conscience make one extempt from battle spirit and not the other"

Thus, my proposal of fixing it at 33%, because 33% is much better what we have now, and gives ZOS an excuse for battle spirit exemption, while keeping the "spirit of the original intent for the ability", so to say.

the healers i play with do 15-20k BoL. Sorcs can get 30k shields. These are done with builds that are still very viable and playable even in solo environments (maybe not optimal but playable). Now if you consider what a DK must sacrifice to get a full health heal of dragon blood, its not even comparable. They need to sacrifice every bit of damage reduction, damage output, sets pieces and mundus.

While i understand where you are coming from, i dont think its a valid reason not to exclude it from battle spirit