Calling all PvP Magicka DKs - Document to the DEVs

devilsTear

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

AverageJo3Gam3r

@Crizar molten whip is the PvE morph used by mDK DPS

Crizar

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Crizar molten whip is the PvE morph used by mDK DPS

I would still use Flame Lash. The 100 or so extra spell damage for ardent flame skills is pretty weak compared to an extra free more powerful skill that heals but that's just me. Kind of feel like the healer should be healing you enough in pve but that doesn't always happen so the power lash heal helps in those uh-oh situations.

Crizar

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Crizar molten whip is the PvE morph used by mDK DPS

Plus this is a PvP thread if I recall so for PvP it's still useless.

DKsUnite

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

DKsUnite

Crizar wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Crizar molten whip is the PvE morph used by mDK DPS

I would still use Flame Lash. The 100 or so extra spell damage for ardent flame skills is pretty weak compared to an extra free more powerful skill that heals but that's just me. Kind of feel like the healer should be healing you enough in pve but that doesn't always happen so the power lash heal helps in those uh-oh situations.

bosses cant become off balance so hence why power lash never procs and hence why molten whip is used by 100% of pve mDK DPS builds.

devilsTear

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Sharee

devilsTear wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Ultimate generation was based on damage done. Today, ultimate regenerates at a constant rate (more or less, depending on abilities/sets etc. used)

Before, you could use a batswarm(or a banner, etc.), and cause enough damage with it to fully charge the ultimate again, allowing you to chain ults back to back(or close to).

devilsTear

Sharee wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Ultimate generation was based on damage done. Today, ultimate regenerates at a constant rate (more or less, depending on abilities/sets etc. used)

Before, you could use a batswarm(or a banner, etc.), and cause enough damage with it to fully charge the ultimate again, allowing you to chain ults back to back(or close to).

Ah kinda how shooting star works then, yh i can imagine perma banner and bats would be a little OP but that shouldn't mean we get no love now.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Crizar wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

@Crizar molten whip is the PvE morph used by mDK DPS

Plus this is a PvP thread if I recall so for PvP it's still useless.

@Crizar you're right. But the purpose of this thought exercise was to brainstorm ways to address the issues with mDK in PvP without buffing PvE mDK (which is strong) or stamDK (which is strong in both).

Ishammael

Sharee wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Ultimate generation was based on damage done. Today, ultimate regenerates at a constant rate (more or less, depending on abilities/sets etc. used)

Before, you could use a batswarm(or a banner, etc.), and cause enough damage with it to fully charge the ultimate again, allowing you to chain ults back to back(or close to).

It wasn't really AMOUNT of damage done.

The biggest problem was that some skills gained you more ultimate than others because the primary mechanisms were
1. Crits (+1 ult/ea)
2. Players hit
3. Healing (healing springs spam... ugh)
4. Damage

Ergo, AoE skills would get you a ton of ultimate by causing all of those things to happen (e.g. Talons, impulse, etc.)

Bashev

Ishammael wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Ultimate generation was based on damage done. Today, ultimate regenerates at a constant rate (more or less, depending on abilities/sets etc. used)

Before, you could use a batswarm(or a banner, etc.), and cause enough damage with it to fully charge the ultimate again, allowing you to chain ults back to back(or close to).

It wasn't really AMOUNT of damage done.

The biggest problem was that some skills gained you more ultimate than others because the primary mechanisms were
1. Crits (+1 ult/ea)
2. Players hit
3. Healing (healing springs spam... ugh)
4. Damage

Ergo, AoE skills would get you a ton of ultimate by causing all of those things to happen (e.g. Talons, impulse, etc.)

Yep. You forgot the CC skill also granted ulti and I think it was 3 per CC including soft CC too. That is why talons was so OP, it was the skill that generated the most ultimate followed by streak. But talons .... it had radius of 8m and it was insane.

Ishammael

Bashev wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Ultimate generation was based on damage done. Today, ultimate regenerates at a constant rate (more or less, depending on abilities/sets etc. used)

Before, you could use a batswarm(or a banner, etc.), and cause enough damage with it to fully charge the ultimate again, allowing you to chain ults back to back(or close to).

It wasn't really AMOUNT of damage done.

The biggest problem was that some skills gained you more ultimate than others because the primary mechanisms were
1. Crits (+1 ult/ea)
2. Players hit
3. Healing (healing springs spam... ugh)
4. Damage

Ergo, AoE skills would get you a ton of ultimate by causing all of those things to happen (e.g. Talons, impulse, etc.)

Yep. You forgot the CC skill also granted ulti and I think it was 3 per CC including soft CC too. That is why talons was so OP, it was the skill that generated the most ultimate followed by streak. But talons .... it had radius of 8m and it was insane.

Yeha I forgot about the soft CC. talons was at like 3ult per grab. Was crazy
8m lasted only till like 1.2 though.

Bashev

Ishammael wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Ultimate generation was based on damage done. Today, ultimate regenerates at a constant rate (more or less, depending on abilities/sets etc. used)

Before, you could use a batswarm(or a banner, etc.), and cause enough damage with it to fully charge the ultimate again, allowing you to chain ults back to back(or close to).

It wasn't really AMOUNT of damage done.

The biggest problem was that some skills gained you more ultimate than others because the primary mechanisms were
1. Crits (+1 ult/ea)
2. Players hit
3. Healing (healing springs spam... ugh)
4. Damage

Ergo, AoE skills would get you a ton of ultimate by causing all of those things to happen (e.g. Talons, impulse, etc.)

Yep. You forgot the CC skill also granted ulti and I think it was 3 per CC including soft CC too. That is why talons was so OP, it was the skill that generated the most ultimate followed by streak. But talons .... it had radius of 8m and it was insane.

Yeha I forgot about the soft CC. talons was at like 3ult per grab. Was crazy
8m lasted only till like 1.2 though.

Yep. But hey now everybody can equip a bow and root people from 20m.

Lord_Hev

Bashev wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what were there dk's skills and passives when the game came out? Ps4 player here started last November so i don't know

it wasnt so much what the skills were (they havent changed for the most part apart from inferno and cinder storm) but its the mechanics that have changed but the DK hasnt been adjusted to factor in these changes.

So dynamic ulti = resources, thats gone now but we still dont have a way to gen resources outside of battle roar. No stam regen while blocking, we lost our ability to tank. 50% heal debuff for being in cyrodiil killed dragon blood. 50% damage reduction + burst meta while we are a sustain class just doesnt work

What was dynamic ultimate? I hope the can restore the class to its former glory, I've tried all classes but I always come back to my dk's

Ultimate generation was based on damage done. Today, ultimate regenerates at a constant rate (more or less, depending on abilities/sets etc. used)

Before, you could use a batswarm(or a banner, etc.), and cause enough damage with it to fully charge the ultimate again, allowing you to chain ults back to back(or close to).

It wasn't really AMOUNT of damage done.

The biggest problem was that some skills gained you more ultimate than others because the primary mechanisms were
1. Crits (+1 ult/ea)
2. Players hit
3. Healing (healing springs spam... ugh)
4. Damage

Ergo, AoE skills would get you a ton of ultimate by causing all of those things to happen (e.g. Talons, impulse, etc.)

Yep. You forgot the CC skill also granted ulti and I think it was 3 per CC including soft CC too. That is why talons was so OP, it was the skill that generated the most ultimate followed by streak. But talons .... it had radius of 8m and it was insane.

Yeha I forgot about the soft CC. talons was at like 3ult per grab. Was crazy
8m lasted only till like 1.2 though.

Yep. But hey now everybody can equip a bow and root people from 20m.

It's also cheaper too, and does more damage. And snares.


#WrobelLogic

IxskullzxI

1. Dragon blood ignore battle spirit
2. Magma armor gives 100% spell pen.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

yodased wrote: »

You didn't tag me and that is understandable, but I think what would make magic dk completely viable in pvp if one of the morphs of sea of flames made our fire dots un cleanse/purge able. Like force siphon or weakness to elements, a cast spells that makes your dots stick to that enemy.

This would make 1v1 vs all classes viable as a our main source of pressure damage and heals comes from dots, which evert class can just purge away

it would be completely overpowered to break purge.

BurritoESO wrote: »

Dragon blood should be unaffected by battle spirit, but capped at like a 10k heal or something so we don't have DK's running around with 50k health getting 30k+ heals being stupid op. Also having ways of getting major/minor heroism would help a lot in outnumbered/small-scale fights. Have ferocious leap, one of the morphs of leap, be a magicka morph. 3 quick ideas have

ya it needs to be looked at, but the problem is any improvement will also help stamina dk and if they got oldschool gdb + vigor roll spam they would be a F ing nightmare. i honestly dont know how to approach it

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Bashev wrote: »

Shifting Standard - restore resources also when the ultimate is refreshed

Empowering Chains - fix it. If it works as invasion it would be awesome.

Flames of oblivion - hurricane style AoE which does damage and expands. It drains 1% magicka and stamina from your enemies every second. DKs do not have burst, they should drain the resources of his/her enemies. 15s duration free to cast but it drains 1000 magicka every second. If it is recast, it starts with the small radius again.

Ferocious Leap - Remove all negative effects, give you 6 seconds immunity to all CC, roots and snares plus the shield. Then this ultimate can be casted even when you are rooted.

Hardened Armor - the damage returned scales with health. 4% from your health.

Dragon blood - Remove battle spirit from its calculations. If you cast the heal and you are over 50%, it doesn't heal you but in the next 20 seconds if you drop under 50% it heals you automatically.

Reflective Plate - Absorb all projectiles for 4 seconds

Dragon Fire Scale - Reflect 4 projectiles in the next 8 seconds and it gives snare and root immunity (similar to forward momentum)

Iron skin - reduce the block cost with 10%

Elder Dragon - Reduce the ultimate cost with 10%

Scaled Armor - Physical resistance too.

Stone Giant - remove the CC and increase the damage and reduce the cost. The damage should be lower than molten whip. Nobody should take this skill for PvE over molten whip but it should give the chance for PvP for some range skill that you can combine with a staff for animation cancelling.

Fragmented Shield - damage should scale with health. Similar to blazing shield.

Cinder Storm - 20% dodge chance + slow + disorient maximum 3 enemies around you. The dot start ticking 3 seconds after the skill is casted.

Thanks for the topic. I hope that some of the devs will read it.

lol do you even think about class balance when making your suggestions EVERYTHING here is overpowerd except fix chains and stone giant, unless ALL classes were reveamped.

AverageJo3Gam3r

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

You didn't tag me and that is understandable, but I think what would make magic dk completely viable in pvp if one of the morphs of sea of flames made our fire dots un cleanse/purge able. Like force siphon or weakness to elements, a cast spells that makes your dots stick to that enemy.

This would make 1v1 vs all classes viable as a our main source of pressure damage and heals comes from dots, which evert class can just purge away

it would be completely overpowered to break purge.

BurritoESO wrote: »

Dragon blood should be unaffected by battle spirit, but capped at like a 10k heal or something so we don't have DK's running around with 50k health getting 30k+ heals being stupid op. Also having ways of getting major/minor heroism would help a lot in outnumbered/small-scale fights. Have ferocious leap, one of the morphs of leap, be a magicka morph. 3 quick ideas have

ya it needs to be looked at, but the problem is any improvement will also help stamina dk and if they got oldschool gdb + vigor roll spam they would be a F ing nightmare. i honestly dont know how to approach it

Simple fix to GDB. A base heal that scales with magicka plus up to 200% extra healing based on amount of health lost. Because it scales with magicka this won't be a buff to stamDKs.

Bashev

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Shifting Standard - restore resources also when the ultimate is refreshed

Empowering Chains - fix it. If it works as invasion it would be awesome.

Flames of oblivion - hurricane style AoE which does damage and expands. It drains 1% magicka and stamina from your enemies every second. DKs do not have burst, they should drain the resources of his/her enemies. 15s duration free to cast but it drains 1000 magicka every second. If it is recast, it starts with the small radius again.

Ferocious Leap - Remove all negative effects, give you 6 seconds immunity to all CC, roots and snares plus the shield. Then this ultimate can be casted even when you are rooted.

Hardened Armor - the damage returned scales with health. 4% from your health.

Dragon blood - Remove battle spirit from its calculations. If you cast the heal and you are over 50%, it doesn't heal you but in the next 20 seconds if you drop under 50% it heals you automatically.

Reflective Plate - Absorb all projectiles for 4 seconds

Dragon Fire Scale - Reflect 4 projectiles in the next 8 seconds and it gives snare and root immunity (similar to forward momentum)

Iron skin - reduce the block cost with 10%

Elder Dragon - Reduce the ultimate cost with 10%

Scaled Armor - Physical resistance too.

Stone Giant - remove the CC and increase the damage and reduce the cost. The damage should be lower than molten whip. Nobody should take this skill for PvE over molten whip but it should give the chance for PvP for some range skill that you can combine with a staff for animation cancelling.

Fragmented Shield - damage should scale with health. Similar to blazing shield.

Cinder Storm - 20% dodge chance + slow + disorient maximum 3 enemies around you. The dot start ticking 3 seconds after the skill is casted.

Thanks for the topic. I hope that some of the devs will read it.

lol do you even think about class balance when making your suggestions EVERYTHING here is overpowerd except fix chains and stone giant, unless ALL classes were reveamped.

@dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO Can you elaborate what is OP? I dont want all the changes btw. If one or two are implemented it will be enough. It is only brainstorming here, just some ideas to the devs if they consider anything at all.

ryanomagheb17_ESO

Hello I am McGuigz from the ps4 Eu sever and I've been running Magicka dk since launch, I do not use a gap closer and would find it beneficial to help magicka dk to sustain stamina by giving them minor expedition when they use their wings, this way we will not waste as much stamina from chasing after people (equals dying), please consider buffing magicka dk zenimax :-( we just need a better self heal and maybe some sort of ult reduction

EnOeZ

Great Idea @DKsUnite !
Once again a very good initiative from you for the DK community and the game in general.

I read through the document fellow mDKs (I am stamDK) just a reminder that some of your proposals are very mDK oriented and completely put aside StamDK (like changes to anaything stam-based of physical based like the Talons part...).

Of course we understand it's a mDK document, but still ;p

AverageJo3Gam3r

@EnOeZ leavin stamDK out was purposeful. They're already one of the best PvE DPS classes, the best PvE tanks, and strong in solo open world PvP. StamDKs lack utility in group play, but this is true of all stamina classes. We wanted to highlight changes that would give mDKs a buff without buffing stamDKs.

Moglijuana

1+ month and 5 pages later...but at least we're getting costume dyeing! lol

forzajuve212

@Wrobel Can you please respond to the community about the state of mag dk and what you are doing to keep them balanced in cyrodiil? Any response to the weaknesses of the spec (low damage, weak self heals, weak skills)? The community has many ideas to help you balance mag dk that you could implement with ease (cinder storm dodge chance, buffing dragon blood/making it ignore battle spirit, adding major/minor spell breach to whip, etc).

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_AlanG @ZOS_JessicaFolsom


We need a response to this. Mag dk has not seen any major balance changes in so long and the devs seem unwilling to acknowledge the weaknesses of the class. Is there any way to organize a Q and A or a meeting between community members and the dev team for balancing or at least get an acknowledgement that these ideas are being a read and thought upon?

Armitas

lustdog

im done with my magicka DK, this failed magic dragon class, theres nothiing you can do with any build...

lucky_Sage

make ferocious leap deal fire damage and do a 6 sec HoT instead of bubble and make the range to 28 meters standard cause the other morph give cost reduction and damage buff which is enough

make igneous shields scale off magicka instead of health it give major mending which makes it a healing spell so it should scale magicka

elder dragon passive should increase max health

dragon blood should heal 20% of max health and scale with health missing like healing ward we dont have a execute so we should have counter to one
green dragons blood should be changed to iron dragons blood where it grants immovability granting cc immunity

empowering chains should set enemy off balance the 2 sec speed is crap

lava whip give it a small amount of splash damage

Sharee

lucky_Sage wrote: »

make ferocious leap deal fire damage and do a 6 sec HoT instead of bubble and make the range to 28 meters standard cause the other morph give cost reduction and damage buff which is enough

make igneous shields scale off magicka instead of health it give major mending which makes it a healing spell so it should scale magicka

elder dragon passive should increase max health

dragon blood should heal 20% of max health and scale with health missing like healing ward we dont have a execute so we should have counter to one
green dragons blood should be changed to iron dragons blood where it grants immovability granting cc immunity

empowering chains should set enemy off balance the 2 sec speed is crap

lava whip give it a small amount of splash damage

+ Make DK DOTs unremovable. If we are to be the only class without an execute, we need some way to put pressure on the enemy.

Eric Wrobel said on one of the ESO lives that they did not want to give DK an execute so that fighting him would feel different, so that, loose quote, "you do not have to be afraid you'll be executed when fighting a DK". That's fine, but what are people supposed to be afraid of when fighting a DK then?

Getting more and more pressure on them as the fight duration increases seems to be the perfect answer.

lucky_Sage

Sharee wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

make ferocious leap deal fire damage and do a 6 sec HoT instead of bubble and make the range to 28 meters standard cause the other morph give cost reduction and damage buff which is enough

make igneous shields scale off magicka instead of health it give major mending which makes it a healing spell so it should scale magicka

elder dragon passive should increase max health

dragon blood should heal 20% of max health and scale with health missing like healing ward we dont have a execute so we should have counter to one
green dragons blood should be changed to iron dragons blood where it grants immovability granting cc immunity

empowering chains should set enemy off balance the 2 sec speed is crap

lava whip give it a small amount of splash damage

+ Make DK DOTs unremovable. If we are to be the only class without an execute, we need some way to put pressure on the enemy.

Eric Wrobel said on one of the ESO lives that they did not want to give DK an execute so that fighting him would feel different, so that, loose quote, "you do not have to be afraid you'll be executed when fighting a DK". That's fine, but what are people supposed to be afraid of when fighting a DK then?

Getting more and more pressure on them as the fight duration increases seems to be the perfect answer.

I meant to put that in there but I forgot