Is PvP really the best aspect of ESO?

Xexpo · June 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

Just a few thoughts...

Not every game has to force PVP onto PVE whether PVE players want it or not.

More players prefer PVE-centric to PVP-centric in MMO's universally across all studies that have been done. A few Google searches will confirm this.

This is an Elder Scrolls game FIRST. Arbitrarily inserting a PVP focus would subtract from those elements and the developers rightly decided the weight of the genre was more important than chasing trendy PVP gimmicks.

PVP in ESO is fine. There are two entire zones (massive Cyrodiil and an entire DLC Imperial Sewers) devoted to PVP. No need to force it on the PVE zones.

A game can do both PVE and PVP well, AND keep them separate. I feel ESO strikes a good balance at that.

Cool story, except the Justice system pvp was scrapped because zose's ability to provide balanced classes is a joke, and had nothing to do with protecting pvers from those evil griefing pvpers.

ManDraKE · June 2016

Nothing wrong with separate PvE from PvP, if you don't like PvP, you should have the option to don't play it. Same goes otherwise, i don't want to play trials or dungeons.

They need to put more focus on the PvP content, the only thing they did was add one flag to the IC districts, that is all they have done for pvp for the last year and a half, yet they keep promoting the PvP aspect of the game...

Slylok · June 2016

Once Arenas and Battlegrounds come out I think it will be right up there with the best ones. Then they just have to redesign Cyrodil which I have a feeling is going to happen at some point.

Rune_Relic · June 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Nobody here is "forcing" anything.

Typhoios wrote: »

Chasing trendy PvP gimmicks?

I don't know if you remember, but a year or so back the whole concept of a "justice system" became one of those trendy marketing hooks for a while. Every new MMO coming out was blurbing about it on their con booths.

Know what happens almost universally when introducing PVP integration into open PVE environments (with the exception of SEPARATE PVP servers where people CHOOSE to play there)? It flops. Want to know why? PEOPLE RUIN IT.

It is a sad fact that a lot of people simply live to find new and even illegal (to the TOS) ways to grief and cheat other players. It's the whole reason they play. It gives them a thrill somehow. I don't pretend to understand WHY people are like that, but the end result is always the same. The game goes to hell.

If a system can be exploited griefers WILL exploit it. Look at Cyrodil Look at any game where no-choice (didn't say forced!) open world PVP is a thing. People with time to grind or credit card ultimates to spam gain a ridiculous unfair advantage then set about camping PVE content like quest givers and crafting hubs and kill defenseless lowbies all day, preventing them from accessing and enjoying content they pay for.

I'm not saying a PVP system has to support that, which is why I believe it should ALWAYS be kept separate from PVE, especially in a ROLE PLAY-centric game like the Elder Scrolls franchise.

And before someone trots out that old cliche about how "PVP people are forced to PVE" let me explain the difference. NPC's don't grief you and camp you at quest and crafting hubs and spawn gank you. PVE content doesn't conspire to prevent you from enjoying the content you paid for. It doesn't because they are robots not people, and unless programmed to, robots don't have that psychological need to be a jerk to other people.

I agree that ZOS should continue perma-banning exploiters, improve detection to do so, and generally resolve the many outstanding issues in Cyrodil (lag, balance, etc.) If that is the suggestion than of course I support it. I doubt anyone would argue "no, those PVP players deserve to suffer, make Cyrodil even worse!" All aspects of the game deserve to be maintained and expanded upon.

So long as that expansion doesn't encroach on the PVE experience. I have had enough of bored kids with too much time on their hands grinding out overpowered characters to grief lowbies.

Let that cancer die a quick and silent death on some grindy pay-to-win Korean MMO.

Isn't everything you mentioned nullified by a toggle option? Want to quest and steal in peace? Keep PvP toggled off (it should be off by default). Tired of robbing and killing predictable and wimpy npcs, toggle PvP on and see how good of a criminal you are.

If we add these things there shouldn't be a problem. For one, you shouldn't be attacked unless you have a bounty, and two, if you have PvP toggled off you can enjoy the justice system in peace. No one of any importance from ZOS ever mentioned open world PvP where you could kill anyone for no reason. It was always tied to Enforcers vs Criminals. No bounty; no PvP. And a toggle option for those that don't want PvP.

But that's not what the PvPers wanted or argued for at the time in relation to the Enforcement part of the Justice System. They didn't want PvEers to be able to opt out of PvP altogether, that would have removed their soft targets and meant they could only engage in PvP with committed PvPers which isn't what they saw the extension of PvP to the open world being about. What they argued for instead was a bounty threshold below which you wouldn't qualify for the Enforcement system but above which you would be fair game regardless of whether or not you were a PvPer.

That's why in my earlier post I specifically used the phrase "If anyone wanted to participate fully in the PvE part then they were going to be forced into PvP" - emphasis on "fully". PvPers didn't want PvEers engaging "fully" in the PvE content of the Justice System without also being forced to engage in the PvP Enforcement system.

Plus, of course, PvPers saw the Enforcement system as a foot in the door so far as the introduction of open world PvP was concerned. They were not remotely interested in any suggestion that the Enforcement system should be restricted to PvP areas like Cyrodiil and IC. Fortunately ZOS could see the feedback on both IC as it was implemented and the Enforcement system as it was proposed and wisely decided to keep the two playstyles separate in future.

You're inferring a lot about random PvPers intentions and motivations. This is why I said no one important at ZOS ever mentioned forcing open world PvP on everyone. If you can show me a developer statement about PvE players being opened up for griefers, then fine.

However, it does no good to talk about what you think PvPers wanted. I'm tired of this notion of soft targets, or PvPers being just plain griefers that only want to fight weak targets. Some are, but a lot want good fights. If I kill a player in Cyrodiil or IC and they put up no fight, I don't stick around and grief them and I likely won't attack them again unless they attack me. I want good fights. If I wanted to faceroll fights, I'd stick to PvE.

If we are going to infer intentions though, what I saw as most PvPers wanting with the justice system was a way to finally have small scale PvP with an escape from the lag and zergs of Cyrodiil. Personally, I just wanted to be able to kill some of my friends without us having to roll alts in other factions.

Actually thats not the way I saw the justice system at all.
For me the PvP aspect for the justice system enabled dynamic ever changing content that isnt scripted by NPCs.
No one ever knows whats coming with a player generated random system of that nature.
Scripted AI...unless it uses a mountain of code and cycles...is predictable and thus....eventually...boring.

And i failed to see the difference between being griefed by an NPC or being griefed by another player.
Aside from the potty mouth brigade and the teabaggers.
Hence, it was an opt in system.
Just to make sure that you actually wanted to even be a part of it.

Choice. I have no choice now. I will never be able to experience such a system..or not as the case may be.
PvE players have basically said, ' you cant have your PvP system (dynamic content), even though it doesnt effect us'

Kalfis · June 2016

No...it's the worst aspect of ESO.

Been a lost cause since launch.

Volkodav · June 2016

Xexpo wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Just a few thoughts...

Not every game has to force PVP onto PVE whether PVE players want it or not.

More players prefer PVE-centric to PVP-centric in MMO's universally across all studies that have been done. A few Google searches will confirm this.

This is an Elder Scrolls game FIRST. Arbitrarily inserting a PVP focus would subtract from those elements and the developers rightly decided the weight of the genre was more important than chasing trendy PVP gimmicks.

PVP in ESO is fine. There are two entire zones (massive Cyrodiil and an entire DLC Imperial Sewers) devoted to PVP. No need to force it on the PVE zones.

A game can do both PVE and PVP well, AND keep them separate. I feel ESO strikes a good balance at that.

Cool story, except the Justice system pvp was scrapped because zose's ability to provide balanced classes is a joke, and had nothing to do with protecting pvers from those evil griefing pvpers.

How do you know what ZOS's intent was in regards to the Justice system for PvP? Do you have an in with the devs?
It's only your opinion as to what was the reason they did whatever they did do.Also,they DID decide to keep the focus on PvErs due to the fact that they are the majority of the player base.It behooves them to keep their bread buttered on the right side to make money. And PvP just isnt the right side to butter their bread.

Shogunami · June 2016

To be honest, PvP in ESO when it's fun is hands down the most enjoyable and worthwhile aspect of ESO.
But quite often the PvP is boring and riddled with bugs.

If we could get some proper instanced and balanced PvP, that'd be great. Cyrodiil doesn't even remotely cut it.
Would love some open world PvP, but ESO will never have that, which is a shame, really. The very way that ESO is structured, how the zone layouts work, it's strictly PvE.

PvP is fun, but there's no meaning to it, no progression, most often no test of skill (because zergs and ability spam) and you don't get anything out of it - except for fun, those rare moments.

Rescorla_ESO · June 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Both aspects of the game lack serious objectives and end game content.pvp is map flipping,pve is map finishing.

The biggest problem with PVP is that the outcomes are not meaningful. Castle sieges are something that should be relatively time consuming (versus only a few minutes), and require a lot of resources from all parties. There should be mechanics to promote guild vs guild competition. The new nameplates are a step in the right direction. The other day the main opponents in Cyrodil were Invictus from EP. Nice to finally know what guild you are fighting against.

I'm beginning to think high quality large scale PVP in MMOs is almost impossible to pull off.

DenMoria · June 2016

Perspective of a mainly PvE player here.

I have to agree with the OP that PvP does seem to have been somewhat ignored in the whole ESO scheme, but I can see why it made the best list. While I'm not a huge fan of PvP, ESO does have some of the best PvP possiblities out there.

It may take some work, but I truly believe that PvE and PvP can be balanced in the game so that we can enjoy ALL of it.

There is no need to be either PvE or PvP. You can be both and enjoy it. You just have to realize that they are two different animals and accept that.

Luigi_Vampa · June 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Nobody here is "forcing" anything.

Typhoios wrote: »

Chasing trendy PvP gimmicks?

I don't know if you remember, but a year or so back the whole concept of a "justice system" became one of those trendy marketing hooks for a while. Every new MMO coming out was blurbing about it on their con booths.

Know what happens almost universally when introducing PVP integration into open PVE environments (with the exception of SEPARATE PVP servers where people CHOOSE to play there)? It flops. Want to know why? PEOPLE RUIN IT.

It is a sad fact that a lot of people simply live to find new and even illegal (to the TOS) ways to grief and cheat other players. It's the whole reason they play. It gives them a thrill somehow. I don't pretend to understand WHY people are like that, but the end result is always the same. The game goes to hell.

If a system can be exploited griefers WILL exploit it. Look at Cyrodil Look at any game where no-choice (didn't say forced!) open world PVP is a thing. People with time to grind or credit card ultimates to spam gain a ridiculous unfair advantage then set about camping PVE content like quest givers and crafting hubs and kill defenseless lowbies all day, preventing them from accessing and enjoying content they pay for.

I'm not saying a PVP system has to support that, which is why I believe it should ALWAYS be kept separate from PVE, especially in a ROLE PLAY-centric game like the Elder Scrolls franchise.

And before someone trots out that old cliche about how "PVP people are forced to PVE" let me explain the difference. NPC's don't grief you and camp you at quest and crafting hubs and spawn gank you. PVE content doesn't conspire to prevent you from enjoying the content you paid for. It doesn't because they are robots not people, and unless programmed to, robots don't have that psychological need to be a jerk to other people.

I agree that ZOS should continue perma-banning exploiters, improve detection to do so, and generally resolve the many outstanding issues in Cyrodil (lag, balance, etc.) If that is the suggestion than of course I support it. I doubt anyone would argue "no, those PVP players deserve to suffer, make Cyrodil even worse!" All aspects of the game deserve to be maintained and expanded upon.

So long as that expansion doesn't encroach on the PVE experience. I have had enough of bored kids with too much time on their hands grinding out overpowered characters to grief lowbies.

Let that cancer die a quick and silent death on some grindy pay-to-win Korean MMO.

Isn't everything you mentioned nullified by a toggle option? Want to quest and steal in peace? Keep PvP toggled off (it should be off by default). Tired of robbing and killing predictable and wimpy npcs, toggle PvP on and see how good of a criminal you are.

If we add these things there shouldn't be a problem. For one, you shouldn't be attacked unless you have a bounty, and two, if you have PvP toggled off you can enjoy the justice system in peace. No one of any importance from ZOS ever mentioned open world PvP where you could kill anyone for no reason. It was always tied to Enforcers vs Criminals. No bounty; no PvP. And a toggle option for those that don't want PvP.

But that's not what the PvPers wanted or argued for at the time in relation to the Enforcement part of the Justice System. They didn't want PvEers to be able to opt out of PvP altogether, that would have removed their soft targets and meant they could only engage in PvP with committed PvPers which isn't what they saw the extension of PvP to the open world being about. What they argued for instead was a bounty threshold below which you wouldn't qualify for the Enforcement system but above which you would be fair game regardless of whether or not you were a PvPer.

That's why in my earlier post I specifically used the phrase "If anyone wanted to participate fully in the PvE part then they were going to be forced into PvP" - emphasis on "fully". PvPers didn't want PvEers engaging "fully" in the PvE content of the Justice System without also being forced to engage in the PvP Enforcement system.

Plus, of course, PvPers saw the Enforcement system as a foot in the door so far as the introduction of open world PvP was concerned. They were not remotely interested in any suggestion that the Enforcement system should be restricted to PvP areas like Cyrodiil and IC. Fortunately ZOS could see the feedback on both IC as it was implemented and the Enforcement system as it was proposed and wisely decided to keep the two playstyles separate in future.

You're inferring a lot about random PvPers intentions and motivations. This is why I said no one important at ZOS ever mentioned forcing open world PvP on everyone. If you can show me a developer statement about PvE players being opened up for griefers, then fine.

However, it does no good to talk about what you think PvPers wanted. I'm tired of this notion of soft targets, or PvPers being just plain griefers that only want to fight weak targets. Some are, but a lot want good fights. If I kill a player in Cyrodiil or IC and they put up no fight, I don't stick around and grief them and I likely won't attack them again unless they attack me. I want good fights. If I wanted to faceroll fights, I'd stick to PvE.

If we are going to infer intentions though, what I saw as most PvPers wanting with the justice system was a way to finally have small scale PvP with an escape from the lag and zergs of Cyrodiil. Personally, I just wanted to be able to kill some of my friends without us having to roll alts in other factions.

I'm inferring nothing, simply referring back to the stated views of PvPers on the countless occasions the subject of the Enforcer system has been discussed on the forum, both before and after the very direct and clear statement by ZOS on ESO Live announcing the decision not to proceed with it and for all future PvP and PvE content to be kept separate.

I fully accept that not all PvPers are griefers or wannabe griefers, but enough are to have created problems for PvEers doing PvE content in PvE areas if PvP penalties were brought into the mix. As for PvPers wanting small scale PvP outside of Cyrodiil they were given that in IC and it wasn't well received and was largely abused through unintended zerging, and ZOS have stated that additional small-scale PvP incl dueling is coming, so PvPers are getting what they want but it won't be in PvE areas. I'm absolutely fine with that.

You must have missed the huge thread and video by Lefty Lucy which was all about an opt-in system and a way to prevent griefing. You're acting like the views of some random PvPers reflects the whole or that it has any bearing on what the justice system would be. The fact is we don't know. It never got developed enough to have any real vision on how it would turn out. All we knew is that enforcers would be able to hunt criminals. However people run with this and blow it up to somehow being open world PvP where max level evil PvPers are going to gank low levels all day.

And IC was not an inclusion of small scale PvP. I don't even consider it a PvP DLC. Prior to DB, IC had zero, I repeat, ZERO PvP objectives. The districts weren't capturable and there was no way to contribute to the alliance war. To make it worse, the only thing worth while from IC districts and sewers, Willpower/Agility jewlery, were only available by killing mobs which is PvE!

Not many people want small scale PvP with trash mobs and sweeper bosses interfering with every fight.

NolaArch · June 2016

So, I have a question, and I apologize if it has been covered, and I missed it:
For those who say this game is PvP with some PvE (e.g. @dtm_samuraib16_ESO's response), or just in general express a strong aversion to PvE in general, what attracted you to ESOTU, and why not another PvP-focused MMO?

I'm genuinely curious about this. Mostly for the example I'm about to give. I have asked others in the past in TS or in chat who have expressed a distaste for or disinterest in PvE why they play specifically this game (i.e. why did they choose ESOTU over other games), and the responses were typically the same: I liked TES series; I was a fan of Skryim; I love the lore." This presents a clash in interest. Essentially I'm hearing, "I don't PvE in this game because I do not like PvE in general. But I play this game because I played other TES games, and liked them." Do these statements seem contradictory to anyone else? At least one person who gave a conflicting response went into Cyrodiil as soon as they hit level 10 after launch, and haven't left. So how can you know you don't like PvE in the game?

For those of you here who don't PvE, and strictly play the PvP aspect, do you just find the PvE in this particular rendition of an Elder Scrolls franchise game boring compared to others in the series? Is that the true turn off? Maybe the community present in this game is better for you than other games with a larger PvP aspect? I'm genuinely curious.

ETA: I understand ESO was marketed to appeal to PvP'ers, and promised a lot in that regard. However, it's been two years. So I'm asking with the understanding of what PvP is now in ESO, not with what was promised.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2016

NolaArch wrote: »

So, I have a question, and I apologize if it has been covered, and I missed it:
For those who say this game is PvP with some PvE (e.g. @dtm_samuraib16_ESO's response), or just in general express a strong aversion to PvE in general, what attracted you to ESOTU, and why not another PvP-focused MMO?

I'm genuinely curious about this. Mostly for the example I'm about to give. I have asked others in the past in TS or in chat who have expressed a distaste for or disinterest in PvE why they play specifically this game (i.e. why did they choose ESOTU over other games), and the responses were typically the same: I liked TES series; I was a fan of Skryim; I love the lore." This presents a clash in interest. Essentially I'm hearing, "I don't PvE in this game because I do not like PvE in general. But I play this game because I played other TES games, and liked them." Do these statements seem contradictory to anyone else? At least one person who gave a conflicting response went into Cyrodiil as soon as they hit level 10 after launch, and haven't left. So how can you know you don't like PvE in the game?

For those of you here who don't PvE, and strictly play the PvP aspect, do you just find the PvE in this particular rendition of an Elder Scrolls franchise game boring compared to others in the series? Is that the true turn off? Maybe the community present in this game is better for you than other games with a larger PvP aspect? I'm genuinely curious.

Because going all the way back to Morrowind I always thought it would be a blast to play Elder Scrolls with my friends.

Also, ES always had better graphics than other large scale games I played. I could never get into WOW because I always thought that WOW looked like hot garbage in comparison.

agn231 · June 2016

Vercingetorix wrote: »

PvE is the actual game. PvP is side-dish content and is frequently associated with toxic, childish whining about nerfs and changes - all without regard to its impact on the majority of the game. PvP should be removed from ESO.

Competitive multiplayer always ruins games in the long run because it is human nature (sadly) to hate, destroy, and revel in the misery of others. Cooperative Multiplayer is far more friendly and encourages the very opposite of PvP - teamwork: helping each other to collectively achieve a goal, instead of tearing each other apart like bratty children over a f*** percentage.

KingYogi415 · June 2016

So much salt in this thread. I only lag in 3 way battle with 200+ people.

FPS drops to a 5-10 but their is no more rubberbanding like before thieves guild.

If anyone judged this game based off what they read in the forum we would have no players.

agn231 · June 2016

Well said!

Luigi_Vampa · June 2016

NolaArch wrote: »

So, I have a question, and I apologize if it has been covered, and I missed it:
For those who say this game is PvP with some PvE (e.g. @dtm_samuraib16_ESO's response), or just in general express a strong aversion to PvE in general, what attracted you to ESOTU, and why not another PvP-focused MMO?

I'm genuinely curious about this. Mostly for the example I'm about to give. I have asked others in the past in TS or in chat who have expressed a distaste for or disinterest in PvE why they play specifically this game (i.e. why did they choose ESOTU over other games), and the responses were typically the same: I liked TES series; I was a fan of Skryim; I love the lore." This presents a clash in interest. Essentially I'm hearing, "I don't PvE in this game because I do not like PvE in general. But I play this game because I played other TES games, and liked them." Do these statements seem contradictory to anyone else? At least one person who gave a conflicting response went into Cyrodiil as soon as they hit level 10 after launch, and haven't left. So how can you know you don't like PvE in the game?

For those of you here who don't PvE, and strictly play the PvP aspect, do you just find the PvE in this particular rendition of an Elder Scrolls franchise game boring compared to others in the series? Is that the true turn off? Maybe the community present in this game is better for you than other games with a larger PvP aspect? I'm genuinely curious.

I don't know if I'm the type you're refering to. I PvE. I run dungeons with my guild and such, but I mostly play PvP. I came to this MMO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore. However, PvE content isn't dynamic. The enemies are easy and do the same things every time. I've done all the quests in this game by now. Multiple times. PvP is dynamic. You never know who you're going to fight. I can get oneshotted out of stealth by an enemy, or I can 1vX 5 or so potatoes. I don't always know what to expect and I am not programmed to win. That is the most important part for me. PvE is PROGRAMMED for you to WIN! You're are supposed to beat it. That is what it is there for. In Cyrodiil there are players that I'll never beat in 1v1 and that is awesome! I have something to strive for and constantly challenge me. If I only had PvE, I would have probably left for a different game, maybe comeback play through a DLC story line and leave again to indulge in different stories.

TL;DR I came for PvE, I stay for PvP

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

NolaArch wrote: »

So, I have a question, and I apologize if it has been covered, and I missed it:
For those who say this game is PvP with some PvE (e.g. @dtm_samuraib16_ESO's response), or just in general express a strong aversion to PvE in general, what attracted you to ESOTU, and why not another PvP-focused MMO?

I'm genuinely curious about this. Mostly for the example I'm about to give. I have asked others in the past in TS or in chat who have expressed a distaste for or disinterest in PvE why they play specifically this game (i.e. why did they choose ESOTU over other games), and the responses were typically the same: I liked TES series; I was a fan of Skryim; I love the lore." This presents a clash in interest. Essentially I'm hearing, "I don't PvE in this game because I do not like PvE in general. But I play this game because I played other TES games, and liked them." Do these statements seem contradictory to anyone else? At least one person who gave a conflicting response went into Cyrodiil as soon as they hit level 10 after launch, and haven't left. So how can you know you don't like PvE in the game?

For those of you here who don't PvE, and strictly play the PvP aspect, do you just find the PvE in this particular rendition of an Elder Scrolls franchise game boring compared to others in the series? Is that the true turn off? Maybe the community present in this game is better for you than other games with a larger PvP aspect? I'm genuinely curious.

I don't know if I'm the type you're refering to. I PvE. I run dungeons with my guild and such, but I mostly play PvP. I came to this MMO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore. However, PvE content isn't dynamic. The enemies are easy and do the same things every time. I've done all the quests in this game by now. Multiple times. PvP is dynamic. You never know who you're going to fight. I can get oneshotted out of stealth by an enemy, or I can 1vX 5 or so potatoes. I don't always know what to expect and I am not programmed to win. That is the most important part for me. PvE is PROGRAMMED for you to WIN! You're are supposed to beat it. That is what it is there for. In Cyrodiil there are players that I'll never beat in 1v1 and that is awesome! I have something to strive for and constantly challenge me. If I only had PvE, I would have probably left for a different game, maybe comeback play through a DLC story line and leave again to indulge in different stories.

TL;DR I came for PvE, I stay for PvP

Exactly. You never know what you're going to get in PVP. Just last night, I had a few comically bad deaths and also one shot the reigning emperor in Scourge. You just never know.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2016

For me no, actually Id say it's the worst experience.

Now that's coming from someone who prefers PvE and group content.

The next person will have a completely different response based on their likes and dislikes.

NolaArch · June 2016

@danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO and @Typhoios, thanks! That's what I was wondering. I can definitely appreciate your points of view. I thoroughly enjoy both PvE and PvP, so I have a totally different view on it. But I'm always curious as to why some choose to exclusively PvP in a game with comparably large PvE component.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2016

NolaArch wrote: »

@danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO and @Typhoios, thanks! That's what I was wondering. I can definitely appreciate your points of view. I thoroughly enjoy both PvE and PvP, so I have a totally different view on it. But I'm always curious as to why some choose to exclusively PvP in a game with comparably large PvE component.

I used to be a 50/50 player. The only thing is that I find no fun in doing the same dungeon more than maybe twice. For me, PVE has become just a relaxing way to literally pick flowers, meanwhile PVP allows me to show off the skills that I've been building since launch in a competitive environment. I can melt 99% of overland PVE content blindfolded at this point. It's just not challenging enough.

I really don't get why someone would own a NASCAR and never take it to the track. That's what it feels like to me when I hear people brag about their top level gear but in the same breath say how they don't PVP.

Also, any top PVP guild requires a ridiculous amount of teamwork. I enjoy the comraderie.

DenMoria · June 2016

Well... I'm anti-social and unskilled, so I guess an MMO is not really for me, so, no, PvP is not important. Neither is PvE.

LrdRahvin · June 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

@LrdRahvin
If you cannot grasp a way of promoting PvP without forcing players into duels, that is your problem.

You forgot about the peanut butter.

NEVER forget about the peanut butter.

LrdRahvin · June 2016

DenMoria wrote: »

Well... I'm anti-social and unskilled, so I guess an MMO is not really for me, so, no, PvP is not important. Neither is PvE.

Me too!!!

Maybe we should get together and form a guild of like-minded people.

Nevermind, I hate people too much for that.

Maybe we should (completely separately and anti-socially, of course) just rant about it in /zone instead.

Yeah! Let's do that that instead.

Ghost-Shot · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

You folks seem to miss a simple factor: PvP killed PvE.
All this rebalancing crap, which btw is purely for PvP meant, affects PvE extremely badly.

Again, this is why I opted to SEPARATE the PvP from PvE, on different servers.

I for one want nothing to do with the whole PvP crap that still is forced upon me through this "PvP balancing".
It is ALSO why half the game is not there, or lore wise not correct.

Look at this prime example of ignorance! Everyone remembers the nerf to stamina regen while blocking that most PvP and PVE players love to complain about, did you know the reasoning given was to make tanking in PVE more "interesting"? Did you know that dynamic ult was removed and replaced with the BS ult gen system we have now because PVE tanks didn't build ult anywhere near the rate that PVE dps did? Those are all reasons that came directly out of Eric Wrobel's mouth. And the cases where something related to PVP has seen a mechanic get nerfed that effects both PVP and PVE is largely due to PVE players who would try PVP, get rekt, and rather than bother to get good, would cry for nerfs and then proceed to complain that PVP hurt their PVE experience.

Its fine, stay in carebear land, we don't want you in PVP anyway. But don't come in here and make blatantly false claims when you don't really know what you're talking about. Seriously how the hell could PVP existing possibly relate to portions of the world not existing, LOL.

Dubhliam · June 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

For me no, actually Id say it's the worst experience.

Now that's coming from someone who prefers PvE and group content.

The next person will have a completely different response based on their likes and dislikes.

That is true, you can answer subjectively to the question.

But let's be objective: how much attention did Cyrodill get from ZOS in the two years the game has been out?
Close to none.

Yet Cyrodill still manages to stay alive and full of activity because that kind of play is dynamic - a true endgame of an MMO.
I can't imagine how many players would still be playing ESO if Cyrodill didn't fester in horrible performance for over a year.

nimander99 · June 2016

How dare ZoS focus on what the Elder Scrolls series is best known for... Storytelling

Dubhliam · June 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

How dare ZoS focus on what the Elder Scrolls series is best known for... Storytelling

This is no excuse for neglecting PvP.
They decided to make and MMO, not another single player game, and with that come certain expectations.

Why does having good storytelling exclude having good PvP?
Why can't we have both?

Lysette · June 2016

Nemeliom wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Imagine how good it would be to have a justice system in which you could kill someone with a bounty and collect 1/4 of the amount of the bounty for yourself (that way people wouldn't cheat with friends). And all the achievements you could do with that justice system.

Stop this is not justice, if you loot the target - you would have to bring it to justice, not loot it like a criminal.

I know. But the same way guards kill you on sight, players could kill you too, and "send" 3/4 of the bounty to the city (roll play) and keep 1/4 of the bounty for himself for bringing justice.

There are tons of things ESO could do with a justice system which would be awesome. They just need to think how to do it without bringing in new exploits/abusers.

Well it does not require skill at all - it would be "gate camping" at outlaw refuges and no fun at all - just ganking.

Lysette · June 2016

Sharakor wrote: »

im surprised that people would even ask this. PvE is mundane and very easy, everything is calculated and predictable, even the hardest dungeons are easy. as someone else said its a difference of opinion, to emphasize on this, casual players usually quit PvP when they realize they cant Strife a player down and are left in awe, so they stick to PvE. PvP is basically a natural selection haven

See, role play is not meant to be challenging, that is not the focus of it. And characters are as well not meant to be maxed out in a role play, but more kind of a hybrid build, with many options but basically top in nothing. Kind of an "average hero". That is why PvE content is like it is - it is more about story, environment and all the nice little things, which pvp player tend to ignore.

PvE and PvP do not mix well - IMO it should have been a cooperative MMO, instead of a competitive one - well, for the most part it is like this - PvP is well ghettoed in Cyrrodil and out of sight for most of the community. And if PC Gamer thinks, that is the best part of ESO, then they miss the concept of the game totally - can I take them seriously with such a biased and bad judgement?- Really not. ESO is doing fine now, because it goes into the direction, it should have been at from the very start - an extension to TES games, not something what feels alien to most of the TES fans. It is on a good path now, and will thrive.

Conquistador · June 2016

This game is a trade simulator for me.