Is PvP really the best aspect of ESO?

Phinix1

OP, I agree with a lot of what you say. Adding some random dialogue comments for PVP achievements would be easy and add a lot. Of course they should "fix the lag." That has almost become like a bumper sticker it's been around so long.

I think the real snag is, what new content could they add to PVP that doesn't involve encroaching on the Elder Scrolls fanbase PVE content? People overwhelmingly DO NOT WANT to have to worry about getting ganked every time they have a bounty. It was a universally hated idea among the PVE majority which is why it was thankfully scrapped.

I thought of an idea a while back that would be an excellent compromise and it was sort of shot down and ignored, yet the Megaserver infrastructure is already there and it might help spread out the PVP population...

Basically, allow players to flag for PVP. When doing so they are "phased" into a dimension of the world where anyone can take out bounty contracts and arrest/attack you if you had a bounty. Basically make the PVP justice system instanced and voluntary.

As an added bonus you could make it so that an enemy faction player in a different faction's zone could be attacked regardless of their bounty status, and make capital city raids a thing where succeeding at taking down a faction leader (and maybe other higher ups scattered around the zone) could net you some sort of token you could cache in for unique motif gear, or maybe some sweet new sets.

So long as people had the option it would be cool to see.

Typhoios wrote: »

Isn't everything you mentioned nullified by a toggle option?

Exactly. Didn't see this before I posted. I actually started a thread about this MONTHS ago.

Maybe ZOS will go in that direction eventually. PVP phasing in a Megaserver would be like being able to switch between playing on a PVP server and PVE server at will.

It would be awesome.

Celas_Dranacea

Pvp in ESO is amazing, nothing like I had ever experienced.

It requires that leaders organically rise from the ranks of hundreds of players. There is a place for solo players and small groups to take objectives or harass the enemy. Playing the map requires and understanding about the size and capabilities of groups on your side and those of enemy factions.

I don't mind dealing with the bugs and the lag... Sure folks have a right to complain but eso is doing something that had never been done before - I understood that when I bought the game and I'm fine rolling with it.

With all the feedback the community has given I've seen a lot of improvement in my time.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Phinix1 wrote: »

Just a few thoughts...

Not every game has to force PVP onto PVE whether PVE players want it or not.

More players prefer PVE-centric to PVP-centric in MMO's universally across all studies that have been done. A few Google searches will confirm this.

This is an Elder Scrolls game FIRST. Arbitrarily inserting a PVP focus would subtract from those elements and the developers rightly decided the weight of the genre was more important than chasing trendy PVP gimmicks.

PVP in ESO is fine. There are two entire zones (massive Cyrodiil and an entire DLC Imperial Sewers) devoted to PVP. No need to force it on the PVE zones.

A game can do both PVE and PVP well, AND keep them separate. I feel ESO strikes a good balance at that.

^^ this

This game is a 'prequel' to a long and diverse franchise which, up until now, has focused entirely upon single player experience, and that is what the bulk of the players who come to this game, set in the same universe, come to it for.

im not saying pvp is bad, it could be good if the lag was fixed, if there was a clear separation of skill effects between pvp and pve class balance. These are the things holding pvp back.

But the elder scrolls is a story and lore focused game series, and that is the way it needs to stay, or i, and many like myself, will abandon this game no matter the universe it is based upon

Wollust

ESO's PvP is amazing. Even with all the bugs and class imbalance. But the one thing which can not be forgiven is the poor performance.

AardvarkChips

Not in my opinion. Tried it once...once.

Nemeliom

Imagine how good it would be to have a justice system in which you could kill someone with a bounty and collect 1/4 of the amount of the bounty for yourself (that way people wouldn't cheat with friends). And all the achievements you could do with that justice system.

YeOldeGamer

Cyrodull sucks. Its a laggy, unbalanced mess.

bedlom

It certainly is a great aspect of the game. But not the best.

Pomaikai

It has a tendency to not bring out the best in people.

arkansas_ESO

Phinix1 wrote: »

Just a few thoughts...
This is an Elder Scrolls game FIRST. Arbitrarily inserting a PVP focus would subtract from those elements and the developers rightly decided the weight of the genre was more important than chasing trendy PVP gimmicks.

Says who? When ESO first launched, it had multiple members from DAOC's (a game famous for it's great RvRvR PVP) development team on board with them, and Cyrodiil was initially seen as the end-game (remember, ESO didn't launch with trials, Craglorn came a few months later.) I know multiple people who came here because they thought it would be 'the new DAOC', due to their numerous parallels (both have three factions, both focus on large battles, both have captureable 'scrolls', Darkness Falls in DAOC is very similar to the Imperial City, etc.) Honestly, it seemed like these ex-DAOC devs were looking for funding to make DAOC 2, and they could get it if they did it under the Elder Scrolls brand.

Also, who says an Elder Scrolls game can't focus on PVP? To me, Elder Scrolls is about lore and exploration. There's nothing saying you can't mix those two with PVP.

AlnilamE

The PvP in this game is a lot of fun, lag notwithstanding.

But I think saying that it's neglected is a bit unfair considering the numerous changes to skills that have been made since launch, including several nerfs to sorcs (remember when they could BE across Cyrodiil?), the no stamina regen while blocking, the extra cost for consecutive dodge roll among other things. All these changes were because of PvP complaints.

Also, I find the recent addition of flags to the IC districts quite interesting and I'm curious to see how that will play out once the novelty wears off a bit.

I like that there is a learning curve in PvP and I can tell that I've gotten better at it (but I'm still miles away from guildies who have been in PvP longer). It makes for something to strive for.

Acrolas

"It's hard to grasp the sensation of watching hundreds of players storm through the broken gap of a castle wall while flaming boulders crash down from overhead, but The Elder Scrolls Online's PvP leads to these kind of epic moments frequently."

"PvP in The Elder Scrolls Online is so fun and engaging"

"The Elder Scrolls Online's take on PvP is just as original as it is fun, and its objective-based focus will certainly be the inspiration for MMOs decades from now."

...

The *** kind of sponsored content bull *** is this? It's like somebody commenting on a video reel instead of the actual game conditions. HAI GUYS THAT LOOKS COOL! PAYCHECK TIME!

Lysette

Nemeliom wrote: »

Imagine how good it would be to have a justice system in which you could kill someone with a bounty and collect 1/4 of the amount of the bounty for yourself (that way people wouldn't cheat with friends). And all the achievements you could do with that justice system.

Stop this is not justice, if you loot the target - you would have to bring it to justice, not loot it like a criminal.

phairdon

Pomaikai wrote: »

It has a tendency to not bring out the best in people.

You're right. Watching the pvp twitch streams is great confirmation of this.

As for myself, only played two MMO'S. GW2 & ESO. Loved world vs world in GW2. Not a fan of the alliance war in this game. Gave it a shot back in 2014.....

Jaronking

ArchMikem wrote: »

No.

"Best" is relative to the player. I DESPISE PvP because of how crap I am to the Easymode Vampire Nightblades. However I get my kicks off of the PvE Narrative.

Others would completely disagree with me. That's just how they are, and this is just how I am.

Dude Dawnbreaker will fix all of your problems with Vampire and if your crap that's your dam fault not PVP.So your view is very jaded because you suck.

nine9six

It could be.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Of course it is. If only ZOS realized it and actually fixed PvP. Could bring so many people back to this game. We used to have maxed pop on 3+ campaigns, back before they reduced Cyrodiil population. Without PvP, I wouldn't be playing this game still.

No way that standing in a blob DPSing a glowing ghost while it shouts 3 ominous sayings on repeat would ever keep me playing. Or pretending I'm some kind of super awesome lore appropriate warrior as I perma walk through some city through boring NPCs. Seriously PvP is the only part of this game that is fresh and spontaneous - when it works that is.

But AOE caps, Mandatory gap closer unpurgable snares, and other "fixes to things that weren't broken" is slowly killing PvP.

I'm glad that people are starting to realize that PvP is the lifeblood of this game. Bout time it got some recognition.

Epona222

I don't know, I lag so hard during battles around keeps that I have never been able to take part in that aspect of PvP.

IcyDeadPeople

It's not so simple to divide everything between resources allocated to either PVE or PVP. As much as I'd like to see more PVP-centric activities, it's not a binary choice as some have framed it. There are several rather distinct ways to play the game that different people enjoy.

I know a number of players for whom the entire game consists of buying and selling items on the guild traders / zone chat, farming, etc., and amassing tens of millions of gold.

For some longtime TES fans, the game is more about exploring all the lands from the singleplayer games, talking to NPCs and experiencing the lore of Elder Scrolls through a different lens.

Some focus exclusively on leaderboard rankings for specific endgame PVE dungeons/trials, while for others the entire game is running or helping to run a guild, organize events, etc. For others, ESO is primarily a platform for interactive group role playing and writing their own stories about Elder Scrolls characters to share with friends.

There are also folks like me who are only interested in PVP, but even then it's quite a different experience for those who prefer playing solo and wandering around without a specific goal compared to those who only play in large keep assault groups with voice comms, or those who spend a lot of time dueling and practicing small scale fights.

Most players have likely spent at least some time with various kinds of activities after they've been playing a while, but there are very different aspects of the game that are important to different players.

What matters to the lore buff interested in quests and the stories may not matter at all to the market mogul or the hardcore end game progression raider and vice versa.

It's impressive the developers continue to take all of these different ways to play the game into account, not just the over-generalization of PVE vs PVP. There are different teams working on different game systems and various kinds of content.

Dubhliam

Tandor wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

Just a few thoughts...

Not every game has to force PVP onto PVE whether PVE players want it or not.

More players prefer PVE-centric to PVP-centric in MMO's universally across all studies that have been done. A few Google searches will confirm this.

This is an Elder Scrolls game FIRST. Arbitrarily inserting a PVP focus would subtract from those elements and the developers rightly decided the weight of the genre was more important than chasing trendy PVP gimmicks.

PVP in ESO is fine. There are two entire zones (massive Cyrodiil and an entire DLC Imperial Sewers) devoted to PVP. No need to force it on the PVE zones.

A game can do both PVE and PVP well, AND keep them separate. I feel ESO strikes a good balance at that.

...Nobody here is "forcing" anything. Stop using that word in defense against something that is no threat at all...

Sorry but that is precisely what the PvP element of the Justice System (referred to in your original post) was designed to do. If anyone wanted to participate fully in the PvE part then they were going to be forced into PvP. We saw with IC how unpopular the mixing of PvP and PvE tends to be and I support ZOS announcing that they will keep both playstyles separate in future. I'm all for them adding more PvP as long as it doesn't impact adversely on PvE. There's plenty of scope in the game for both, but they should be kept separate.

Yes, I would very much love to see the PvP part of the Justice system, but this topic is not about that. It was mentioned in the OP solely to point out ZOS has biased priorities (favoring story content).
PvP Justice has been discussed over and over again in many threads (including the one in my sig) and I would like to leave out this topic from this thread because we will only be going in circles.

Just the first page of this thread is full of examples where people say things like "separate PvP to a different server" or "PvP should be removed from ESO".

Take a hard look ZOS.

THIS is the atmosphere you created in your game. The lack of staff and/or resources has made you focus on only one aspect of the game at a time, neglecting the other. This in turn made your players turn on each other whenever they request attention. The whole forum is like bickering hungry siblings fighting over scraps from the table.

Yes, this is an Elder Scrolls game, and the story requires a lot of focus, there is nothing wrong with that.
But let's not totally neglect the MMO part of ESO. And that means trials, group dungeons AND PvP. In two words: endgame content.
It has been pointed out so many times that ESO will die the moment when another single player ES game hits the shelves. And it cannot be more true.
Why?
Because you keep treating ESO like a single player game and segregating your players into X and Y.
Start planning long term.
Invest in your endgame.
It has potential.
And lastly: IMMERSE your players into the Alliance war.

Iyas

Yes, it was..

Uviryth

Meh, PvP in this game is boring. Nothing to gain. I don`t do mmo-content without rewards.

Lolssi

Yeah ESO should have been under Story-driven category. Then again it's PC gamer...

Crom_CCCXVI

The ONLY reason I PVE is to get better at PVP.

Junipus

Acrolas wrote: »

"It's hard to grasp the sensation of watching hundreds of players storm through the broken gap of a castle wall while flaming boulders crash down from overhead, but The Elder Scrolls Online's PvP leads to these kind of epic moments frequently."

"PvP in The Elder Scrolls Online is so fun and engaging"

"The Elder Scrolls Online's take on PvP is just as original as it is fun, and its objective-based focus will certainly be the inspiration for MMOs decades from now."

...

The *** kind of sponsored content bull *** is this? It's like somebody commenting on a video reel instead of the actual game conditions. HAI GUYS THAT LOOKS COOL! PAYCHECK TIME!

That is exactly what it is. If you watch the pre open beta video footage of Cyrodiil it's exactly as the "reviewer" describes it. All they've done is watched a staged fight from 2 1/2 years ago and declared it epic. It's why I don't trust anyone who reviews games before release or operates on a paid content model.

Sallington

If they didn't market this game as a PvP-centric, RvRvR MMO, it would have been dead before the console release.

I never would have even bought it if I thought it was going to be just another faceroll-easy PvE MMO.

Strider_Roshin

PvP is the only part of the game where I actually have to pay attention. If PvE was the only thing I was interested in I would have stopped playing this game long ago. There's just no challenge to it.

Nemeliom

Lysette wrote: »

Nemeliom wrote: »

Imagine how good it would be to have a justice system in which you could kill someone with a bounty and collect 1/4 of the amount of the bounty for yourself (that way people wouldn't cheat with friends). And all the achievements you could do with that justice system.

Stop this is not justice, if you loot the target - you would have to bring it to justice, not loot it like a criminal.

I know. But the same way guards kill you on sight, players could kill you too, and "send" 3/4 of the bounty to the city (roll play) and keep 1/4 of the bounty for himself for bringing justice.

There are tons of things ESO could do with a justice system which would be awesome. They just need to think how to do it without bringing in new exploits/abusers.

Jaronking

Uviryth wrote: »

Meh, PvP in this game is boring. Nothing to gain. I don`t do mmo-content without rewards.

You get rewards of the worthy in PVP.How are you not getting a reward from PVPing?

Lolssi wrote: »

Yeah ESO should have been under Story-driven category. Then again it's PC gamer...

Well of it was under that category am pretty sure they would have lost.That's why they put it under PVP so they could give it something .

Sallington

Also, BIG freaking LOL at anyone who was expecting ESO to fall into the Sandbox MMO category.