Is PvP really the best aspect of ESO?

Tandor

Conquistador wrote: »

This game is a trade simulator for me.

You're not allowed to say that, it's supposed to be the reason why we can't have an auction house, not the reason for having one !

martinhpb16_ESO

I undoubtedly spend most of my time now in pvp since the devs decided to nerf the difficulty of open world pve, with Orsinium onwards.

I didn't complete TG and haven't even looked at DB. Easymode pve has no appeal for me. Having spoken to a few guildies there are some who have also not bothered with DB for the same reason.

I do think ESO makes a great job of group dungeons and trials, and I enjoy playing those with friends.

bedlom

bedlom wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

It has a tendency to not bring out the best in people.

That's PVP for ya!

Tonnopesce

Pve is so easy that the only challenge is two instance (vMOL and vSO) and you need 12ppl to enjoy them.

Pvp in this game is the only place where the game become challenging players aside even the resource flag guards are stronger than pve dungeon bosses.

Dubhliam

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I undoubtedly spend most of my time now in pvp since the devs decided to nerf the difficulty of open world pve, with Orsinium onwards.

I didn't complete TG and haven't even looked at DB. Easymode pve has no appeal for me. Having spoken to a few guildies there are some who have also not bothered with DB for the same reason.

I do think ESO makes a great job of group dungeons and trials, and I enjoy playing those with friends.

This right here is what happened to me.
Up until a couple of months ago, I was a 100% PvE player. The only PvP I did was to get 4th Assault level for the Warhorn.
Then came the Cyrodill golden vendor, and my Pledges got reduced from: do every one every day, sometimes multiple times a day, to: do the pledges only if I miss some achievements in them.
Once I got the achievements, I was like: "What to do, what to do?"
A few weeks later I got the Emperor achievement.
Some of my best moments in ESO was while PvPing, I remember how exciting it was to open the DC north gates, take their Ni-Mohk Scroll and then our Mnem Scroll from the keep we have just taken then escorting them all the way south. With DC and EP gankers all the way down.

Point is: ESO PvP has potential, and a LOT of it, if only they would focus their resources some more in it.
Much as yourself, I haven't even tried DB. After playing through TG until my ESO+ expired, I pretty much know what to expect from it. And I'm not impressed.

It is sad to see such a DLC is the only thing they can come up with in three months.

abelsgmx

I bought this game trying to get a good pvp experience no one annoying experience with all that cheaters and laged server

Bouldercleave

It's quite possible that they decided to focus on PvE simply because they went to the PvP forums of EVERY MMO ever made and realized that it is a group of people that will never be happy or satisfied.

[Edit to remove hate speech]

UltimaJoe777

Dubhliam wrote: »

According to pcgamer.com, ESO has one of the best PvP in MMOs.
There were also other categories where ESO is nowhere to be found:
the best story-focused MMOs ,
the best sandbox MMOs,
the best "theme park" MMOs,

Playing ESO for quite a while now, I believe ZOS focuses far too much on other aspects of the game (like story) and fails to see that they have a gem in their pocket that they can cash in.
The decision to scrap PvP Justice might or might not be relevant to the whole "best PvP MMO" discussion, but it certainly does show their priorities.

Even when they left their PvP part of the game to wither for such a long time, leaving it in poor balance, horrible lag, exploiting and in the end blatant cheating, it still managed to get distinguished among so many other MMOs.
Imagine what would have become of ESO if PvP was nurtured and catered from the beginning. If the story of each DLC was supporting the idea of an ongoing war, instead of just ignoring it as just a separate part of the game.
If I get recognized by some NPCs as a savior of some sorry village, why do my feats in Cyrodill go unnoticed? Why does no NPC acknowledge my Alliance rank or recognizes me as a former emperor? Apart from Clivia in WGT, kudos for that.

ZOS, you better start treating PvP as a part of your game (and the best part, if I might add) before ESO's PvP gets outshadowed by some new and more exciting MMO.
You just might make ESO PvP something every MMO player would like to be a part of.

Where do people come up with these terms though? "Theme Park"? lol

Anyway what you say makes at least SOME sense OP. The game is very enjoyable as far as PvP goes. Large-scale involves siege and typical warfare and even incorporates the game's main feature: The Elder Scrolls themselves. Small-scale is coming next year and will offer optional PvP for those that dislike large-scale.

TESO sadly has little focus on the main story. It continues with each DLC, sure, but without DLCs it ends at Coldharbour. Beat Molag Bal then go play around as if you were a member of the enemy factions. Naturally this doesn't pull as much admiration as other games' main stories might. Even worse is how short it is due to how easy it is to level to unlock the quests. The expedition in Coldharbour with the Guilds is as long, if not longer, than all the Harborage quests combined.

TESO is hardly a sandbox game. Players tend to be seperated into instances where quest progression changes things. DLCs are a bit better about this but still a player's actions hardly influence others. Most you can do is kill an NPC or mob someone else is after or loot a node or chest before someone else can, all typical features of even the earliest MMORPGs.

TESO is indeed no "Theme Park" game, especially once One Tamriel comes out.

VincentBlanquin

sadly, too many things pvp related in this game are just annoyingly stupid. wake me in 6 month after they will introduce new combat dev

PC Gamer article is complete joke, i am pretty sure writer was never been in cyrodiil

Ch4mpTW

No. Definitely not. Hell no. PVP in this game is nowhere near the best in terms of MMO PVP. It wasn't the best even back in the day. However, it was in fact tremendously better than what it is today.

Snowstrider

nimander99 wrote: »

How dare ZoS focus on what the Elder Scrolls series is best known for... Storytelling

Elder Scrolls series is best known for exploration,large open worlds,freedom and fun sandbox stuff. ESO doesnt have much of that

C0wrex

One of the best aspects of ESO

Banana

I hate pvp with a passion

Avenias

Dubhliam wrote: »

According to pcgamer.com, ESO has one of the best PvP in MMOs.
There were also other categories where ESO is nowhere to be found:
the best story-focused MMOs ,
the best sandbox MMOs,
the best "theme park" MMOs,

Playing ESO for quite a while now, I believe ZOS focuses far too much on other aspects of the game (like story) and fails to see that they have a gem in their pocket that they can cash in.
The decision to scrap PvP Justice might or might not be relevant to the whole "best PvP MMO" discussion, but it certainly does show their priorities.

Even when they left their PvP part of the game to wither for such a long time, leaving it in poor balance, horrible lag, exploiting and in the end blatant cheating, it still managed to get distinguished among so many other MMOs.
Imagine what would have become of ESO if PvP was nurtured and catered from the beginning. If the story of each DLC was supporting the idea of an ongoing war, instead of just ignoring it as just a separate part of the game.
If I get recognized by some NPCs as a savior of some sorry village, why do my feats in Cyrodill go unnoticed? Why does no NPC acknowledge my Alliance rank or recognizes me as a former emperor? Apart from Clivia in WGT, kudos for that.

ZOS, you better start treating PvP as a part of your game (and the best part, if I might add) before ESO's PvP gets outshadowed by some new and more exciting MMO.
You just might make ESO PvP something every MMO player would like to be a part of.

Hell yeah! Pve is too boring to even bother with. A child can write a more immersive story then the garbage story we see in pve. In pvp, the thrill of the fight is what make it so fun. Intensr seige battles, with both sides throwing everything they got at each other. U just cant beat that with a childish story.


At this point, pvp is not just the best aspect to me, its the only aspect to me.

Molag_Crow

I thought the PvP was the best aspect of ESO at first but it really isn't, because it's just in a complete mess. Put it this way, I don't know a single game that has more unbalanced PvP in it, than ESO. It will never be balanced until they make a separate resource for Dodge Roll/Break Free/Block and if they keep over-nerfing classes into uselessness, while destroying them in PvE at the same time - and of course it'll never be completely fun with all the latency/fps issues.

Ignoring issues for months and not tweaking/listening to feedback on classes until it's too late, and of course not doing actual testing on live to see just how ridiculously strong some classes/resources are, and how broken some skills like (like Evasion/Shuffle.) I haven't played PvP in months though, but the last time I did play, it was just 80% stamina users with shuffle. How fun.

Vipstaakki

No! By far it isn't. It does not even have an interesting storyline to go with it. Quite literally the PvP is utterly pointless because Talos will come and conquer all of you anyway.

Now PvE is something unique in ESO. Actually ESO is the only MMO i have completed the main storyline on because it demands next to no grinding and provides a nice story while at it. In the end, its the PvE that sells this game.

lazarusarkane1

If some of you are wanting more pvp that badly, why not find mmos that are centered around that, instead of wanting to impose it on ESO. I'm certain the developers aren't solely focusing on pvp as the games main selling point, as that is not what an elder scrolls game is at its core. Too much pvp would just destroy the game imo.

TheHsN

i pushed on agree but it is also AWESOME...

tnx @Dubhliam for being sooooooo RIGHT...

Bromburak

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS, you better start treating PvP as a part of your game (and the best part, if I might add) before ESO's PvP gets outshadowed by some new and more exciting MMO.

Good one, how many game companies promised exciting PvP and who actually delivered in the last decade? Nobody.
While I agree that certain things in ESO need improvement, hoping on good PvP in other games is pure dreaming since DAOC.

The reality is that most companies will not invest in any expensive PvP architectures because this business is not about innovations or pioneering mass PvP like DAOC, it's about quick and dirty implementations to make revenue fast.

That's one reason why many games only provide BGs because it's a tiny isolated instance with guarantee to perform well similar to maps in shooters. As soon games are trying to work on quite complex mass pvp concepts they failed because of
performance or lack of PvP objectives.

Great PvP and quality is expensive, that's why Mass PvP is so rare. Everyone in the MMO business would tell you the same thing, to make kick ass PvP like DAOC with technology from today costs you a fortune. You will barely find any decider or investor approving insane budgets. That's why ESO is so important as a reference for PvP because at least some professionals trying to work hard to make Mass PvP awesome again. ESO cannot replace pioneering PvP like DAOC but ZOS can show everyone that creating games going in a similar direction is still possible today.

Asata

ESO is kinda garbage in PvP compared to some other big MMO's. It's lacking some really core features like targeting systems. Nobody here even really grasps the concept of spiking because there's no mechanics built into the game to facilitate it.

Right now, PvP is just random zerg f***ery. It's poorly organized even in its organized groups. If you had a proper setup with say 6 damage dealers (with at least 2, if not 4, focused on snaring/CCing the *** out of people) and 2 healers, with a targeting system calling spikes on people, you would dominate everyone you come across. Everyone. The learning curve would go up significantly, as would the level of player skill required to compete.

The entire game is kind of a zergfest, even the endgame dungeons I've seen. ZOS seems to like just throwing a lot of mobs at you, or having a really strong one with a bunch of instakill mechanics (which may also be environmental).

The UI is super lacking in general and has to be made up for with mods, but there are some really core things missing and being able to call targets is one of them. Though, I do have some ideas in that regard that I may experiment with in the future.

Dubhliam

Molag_Crow wrote: »

I thought the PvP was the best aspect of ESO at first but it really isn't, because it's just in a complete mess. Put it this way, I don't know a single game that has more unbalanced PvP in it, than ESO. It will never be balanced until they make a separate resource for Dodge Roll/Break Free/Block and if they keep over-nerfing classes into uselessness, while destroying them in PvE at the same time - and of course it'll never be completely fun with all the latency/fps issues.

Ignoring issues for months and not tweaking/listening to feedback on classes until it's too late, and of course not doing actual testing on live to see just how ridiculously strong some classes/resources are, and how broken some skills like (like Evasion/Shuffle.) I haven't played PvP in months though, but the last time I did play, it was just 80% stamina users with shuffle. How fun.

This is pretty much just how I experienced it.
Once I finally managed to get myself into Cyrodiil, it was a completely exciting new ESO experience.

But many issues and imbalances quickly come to light, and the total neglect of this content quickly becomes apparent.
A shame, really.

Also, I don't know why some people get so worked up about. This is completely separated from any other PvE zone, is there a reason why you would want other players move to another game?
Who gave you exclusive rights to play this game?
Such negativity...

Sausage

I think its no-brainer that Cyrodil was added to this game alot later. I keep fingers crossed that Conan Exiles has decent PVP.

Jaronking

NolaArch wrote: »

So, I have a question, and I apologize if it has been covered, and I missed it:
those who say this game is PvP with some PvE (e.g. @dtm_samuraib16_ESO's response), or just in general express a strong aversion to PvE in general, what attracted you to ESOTU, and why not another PvP-focused MMO?

I'm genuinely curious about this. Mostly for the example I'm about to give. I have asked others in the past in TS or in chat who have expressed a distaste for or disinterest in PvE why they play specifically this game (i.e. why did they choose ESOTU over other games), and the responses were typically the same: I liked TES series; I was a fan of Skryim; I love the lore." This presents a clash in interest. Essentially I'm hearing, "I don't PvE in this game because I do not like PvE in general. But I play this game because I played other TES games, and liked them." Do these statements seem contradictory to anyone else? At least one person who gave a conflicting response went into Cyrodiil as soon as they hit level 10 after launch, and haven't left. So how can you know you don't like PvE in the game?

For those of you here who don't PvE, and strictly play the PvP aspect, do you just find the PvE in this particular rendition of an Elder Scrolls franchise game boring compared to others in the series? Is that the true turn off? Maybe the community present in this game is better for you than other games with a larger PvP aspect? I'm genuinely curious.

ETA: I understand ESO was marketed to appeal to PvP'ers, and promised a lot in that regard. However, it's been two years. So I'm asking with the understanding of what PvP is now in ESO, not with what was promised.

Avenias wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

According to pcgamer.com, ESO has one of the best PvP in MMOs.
There were also other categories where ESO is nowhere to be found:
the best story-focused MMOs ,
the best sandbox MMOs,
the best "theme park" MMOs,

Playing ESO for quite a while now, I believe ZOS focuses far too much on other aspects of the game (like story) and fails to see that they have a gem in their pocket that they can cash in.
The decision to scrap PvP Justice might or might not be relevant to the whole "best PvP MMO" discussion, but it certainly does show their priorities.

Even when they left their PvP part of the game to wither for such a long time, leaving it in poor balance, horrible lag, exploiting and in the end blatant cheating, it still managed to get distinguished among so many other MMOs.
Imagine what would have become of ESO if PvP was nurtured and catered from the beginning. If the story of each DLC was supporting the idea of an ongoing war, instead of just ignoring it as just a separate part of the game.
If I get recognized by some NPCs as a savior of some sorry village, why do my feats in Cyrodill go unnoticed? Why does no NPC acknowledge my Alliance rank or recognizes me as a former emperor? Apart from Clivia in WGT, kudos for that.

ZOS, you better start treating PvP as a part of your game (and the best part, if I might add) before ESO's PvP gets outshadowed by some new and more exciting MMO.
You just might make ESO PvP something every MMO player would like to be a part of.

Hell yeah! Pve is too boring to even bother with. A child can write a more immersive story then the garbage story we see in pve. In pvp, the thrill of the fight is what make it so fun. Intensr seige battles, with both sides throwing everything they got at each other. U just cant beat that with a childish story.


At this point, pvp is not just the best aspect to me, its the only aspect to me.

Just this 10000% the PVE story line in this game is just trash.

Vipstaakki

Jaronking wrote: »

Just this 10000% the PVE story line in this game is just trash.

I respectfully disagree with you.

Avenias

Vipstaakki wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Just this 10000% the PVE story line in this game is just trash.

I respectfully disagree with you.

Sry that my standard of story telling is too high for you. I dont enjoy the stories written by wannabe writers. Even skyrims story is a 100 times better then this crap.

GreenhaloX

Well.. for avid or hardcore PvP players, they could arguably say yes, but for the many others who are not so much interested with PvP, they would debate other aspects of ESO to be better. PvP in ESO may well be better than many other games' PvP (according to your listed sources), but if relatively speaking just in terms within ESO, grouping for trials and vet level events could fall into a good debate on what aspects of ESO are better. I think there are better drops from completing trials and vet dungeons, and even from vet Maelstrom, than from doing PvP. Just from one's opinion, PvP is relatively enjoyable for the first couple or few weeks, but I then find it too monotonous to go around killing other players, getting killed yourself, attacking and capturing keeps, then the others attacking and capturing your keeps and press repeat and repeat. After leveling up the assault skill bar and unlocking vigor and caltrops, I find it hard to head back into the PvP realm. Again, just one lonewolf's opinion here.

Sallington

Yes, but PvE is in a much better place than it's been since they've scaled all of the trials to CP160.

Dubhliam

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Well.. for avid or hardcore PvP players, they could arguably say yes, but for the many others who are not so much interested with PvP, they would debate other aspects of ESO to be better. PvP in ESO may well be better than many other games' PvP (according to your listed sources), but if relatively speaking just in terms within ESO, grouping for trials and vet level events could fall into a good debate on what aspects of ESO are better. I think there are better drops from completing trials and vet dungeons, and even from vet Maelstrom, than from doing PvP. Just from one's opinion, PvP is relatively enjoyable for the first couple or few weeks, but I then find it too monotonous to go around killing other players, getting killed yourself, attacking and capturing keeps, then the others attacking and capturing your keeps and press repeat and repeat. After leveling up the assault skill bar and unlocking vigor and caltrops, I find it hard to head back into the PvP realm. Again, just one lonewolf's opinion here.

In the end, all content is just repeating it over and over again.

Some find PvP boring, others find dungeons boring.
I am neither, truth be told, I spend most of my time doing PvE activities.

Every MMO strives on end game content.
PvP is definitely one of it.
Neglecting one form of end game content seriously impacts a game's life expectancy.