JD2013 wrote: »

show previous quotes

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Nifty2g wrote: »

show previous quotes

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?

Dont ever try and justify cheating.

I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.

This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.

I don't think it devalues the score what so ever, if both teams were going for #1 and this exploit you can never know who was doing it, you kinda had to agree to be open to it to keep things "fair", it's not right at all and it is unfair in a sense as its an exploit, but it was needed to keep it all fine between the two teams, we had been in VDSA for about 5 months progressing and something like this comes along and ruined it right towards the end, it's not worth for either team to throw their effort away. It shouldn't ever come to that, and I'm not justifying it, I'm just giving you an example of what some of the incompetence to bug fixing right away leads to in serious end game.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

show previous quotes

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Three words: transparency; enforcement; deterrence.

I teach for a living.

On Day 1, I tell my students about my zero-tolerance policy regarding plagiarizing and cheating.
You plagiarize, you cheat, you get a FAIL, you get kicked out of the class.
PERIOD.
That's transparency.

When students hand in their work, I check their papers are not plagiarized.
During written tests, I don't sit on my thumbs reading a book or surfing these forums.
I walk up and down the room, making sure the students are working on their own using knowledge they have acquired.
That's enforcement.

Now mimicry and imitation are what drive our development: children imitate adults; disciples imitate masters; players imitate streamers. The vast majority of a given population will just follow the herd.
Here and there, you'll have exceptional talents, and ruthless thugs. What you want as a shepherd, as a teacher, as an institutional representative, as a game company, is to sway the herd away from the thugs, towards the talents.
The only way to do that is by laying down the rules and enforcing them: that's deterrence.

My marks mean something. They reward hard work and intelligence.
Sure, there must be a few talented cheaters who got away with it in spite of my efforts.
I only claim two things: I'll have made it really hard for them to cheat; they're a tiny minority.

Car-manufacturers cheat.
Bankers cheat.
Players cheat.
This is just human nature.

It is the rule-makers' responsibility to preserve a healthy, rewarding environment.
They can only achieve this through transparency, enforcement and deterrence.
Should they fail, the environment will purely and simply disappear.

As a rank and file player, I want an official statement in the launcher news declaring ZOS's policy towards cheating and evidence of punishment.

Short of that, I'll GTFO (and not giving away my stuff) and give ZOS a bad name on every opportunity.

Well damn! Lmao! I agree you 100% tho'. Burn this mother down!

Buffler wrote: »

show previous quotes

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?

Dont ever try and justify cheating.

I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.

This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.

100% zos' fault?

You put 0 blame at the doors of the people cheating?

If you leave your front door unlocked that doesnt give anybody free reign to rob your house. They are still thieving *** and the law would agree.

JD2013 wrote: »

show previous quotes

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

sadownik wrote: »

show previous quotes

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

I agree that other MMOs were hacked, but ffs... with CE?

arth-grogalith wrote: »

show previous quotes

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

So in essence what you're saying is that it's OK for a game with a $200m budget to be hacked by spoilt, bored 15-year-olds using a world-famous platform? That ZOS shouldn't have known better, in the light of the very precedents in other MMOs that YOU've mentioned?

I beg to differ.

JD2013 wrote: »

show previous quotes

arth-grogalith wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

So in essence what you're saying is that it's OK for a game with a $200m budget to be hacked by spoilt, bored 15-year-olds using a world-famous platform? That ZOS shouldn't have known better, in the light of the very precedents in other MMOs that YOU've mentioned?

I beg to differ.

Believe me, the budget of this game was not 200 million dollars

And, of course, ZOS should make security and indeed should have made security much tighter and a priority.

However, as with everything in life, if hackers want to hack



Now is this an excuse? Absolutely not. They need to start looking inward at their client and the servers, and shift and fix and move things around.

But those that chose to hack have responsibility too. Never forget that.

Duiwel wrote: »

Come tomorrow night my guild mates & I will kill them all free of charge

Cously wrote: »

I had lag all of the night in TF NA. I'm always suspicious of my end since I live in a third world, but others in my grope complained as well. They from US, Canadia and Rooland.