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[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?
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Sunburnt_Penguin✭✭✭✭✭What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.3 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is what we were all ranting about in the previous exploits threads Sunburnt_Penguin.
ZOS has set a precedent that cheating has little to no consequence so why not do it? Also I would imagine most of the people doing it don't even care if they're banned any more.
There are so many people disenchanted (correct word?) with ZOS and ESO they will just mess it up for others on their way out.
Casual players won't notice and go about their normal days of levelling characters, enjoying content and doing dailies. The more hardcore community are the ones seeing it all and being outraged.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."4 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.1 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.Edited by Buffler on May 30, 2016 9:35AM4 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Naming and shaming: prohibited for a valid reason.
BUT!
There should be a "Wall of Shame".
Meaning that every player that gets banned (permanently or not) goes to the wall. It does not even have to be public.
Just remove all players that are on the Wall of Shame from any leaderboards.
And prevent those players (if suspended) to get on a leaderboard ever again.4 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Naming and shaming: prohibited for a valid reason.
BUT!
There should be a "Wall of Shame".
Meaning that every player that gets banned (permanently or not) goes to the wall. It does not even have to be public.
Just remove all players that are on the Wall of Shame from any leaderboards.
And prevent those players (if suspended) to get on a leaderboard ever again.
Or just actually enforce you ToS to start with and make people fear being banned.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.
Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.0 -
Immortal_Dark410✭✭✭✭Naming and shaming: prohibited for a valid reason.
BUT!
There should be a "Wall of Shame".
Meaning that every player that gets banned (permanently or not) goes to the wall. It does not even have to be public.
Just remove all players that are on the Wall of Shame from any leaderboards.
And prevent those players (if suspended) to get on a leaderboard ever again.
Or just actually enforce you ToS to start with and make people fear being banned.
Ya which is plain common logic but that generally goes out of the window here lolRetired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF TAMRIEL
Retired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF NIRN
(ALL FACTION TRADE GUILDS)
PC NA SERVER
DC - DARKDROGO | ORC | STAM DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-GEARLT-OF-RIVIA | ALTMER | MAG SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
EP - DARK-ABYSS | DUNMER | MAG TEMP | LVL 50 | CP 1285
DC - REAPERS-CLOACK-OF-YASSASEEN | BRETON | MAG NB | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-SLADE-WILSON | KHAJIIT | STAM NB | LVL 50 | CP 585
AD - THE-LAST-DRUID-OF-PARANOR | ALTMER | MAG DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - GALADRIEL-LADY OF LIGHT | IMPERIAL | STAM SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
CONSOLE PS5 NA SERVER AS WELL1 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.
Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.
So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?0 -
Immortal_Dark410✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.
Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.
So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?
Well...I'll be Damned
Retired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF TAMRIEL
Retired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF NIRN
(ALL FACTION TRADE GUILDS)
PC NA SERVER
DC - DARKDROGO | ORC | STAM DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-GEARLT-OF-RIVIA | ALTMER | MAG SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
EP - DARK-ABYSS | DUNMER | MAG TEMP | LVL 50 | CP 1285
DC - REAPERS-CLOACK-OF-YASSASEEN | BRETON | MAG NB | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-SLADE-WILSON | KHAJIIT | STAM NB | LVL 50 | CP 585
AD - THE-LAST-DRUID-OF-PARANOR | ALTMER | MAG DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - GALADRIEL-LADY OF LIGHT | IMPERIAL | STAM SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
CONSOLE PS5 NA SERVER AS WELL0 -
Sunburnt_Penguin✭✭✭✭✭
As someone already pointed out, these are two inherently different 'exploits': one being a use of a 3rd party software whilst the other being an in-game oversight/lack of care from ZOS.Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
That being said, I still completely agree with your point because when we look at the writ survey thing and the bans that were issued: all that does is give them a benchmark for risk v reward of future exploits.
"Do the rewards from this *insert in-game exploit* warrant the risk of a 3-day ban whenever ZOS choose (because they were made aware of this multiple times and long before it came to everyone's attention on the forums, yet that is only when they took action) to take action?" If yes, exploit as much as possible.1 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.
Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.
So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?
Well what difference does it make if they tell us what punishments they're thinking of handing out?, it doesn't change the fact that it happened, as I've said already it's just PR damage control, it's not for our benefit it's for theirs.0 -
stevepdodson_ESO888✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked
As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)
As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.
It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?
Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.
I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.6 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.
Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.
So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?
And that is exactly the point here.
ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.
No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"
ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"
Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.
The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
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https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!1 -
Molag_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like how the slimy little cheats waited until the weekend to do this, knowing that ZOS' attention is at an extreme low on in-game issues.--ϟ-- Crows_Descend - Templar - Ebonheart Pact [PS4]&[PC] [EU] --ϟ--
YoutTube ESO Playlist
The greatest prison that people live in, is the fear of what other people think. - David Icke
Be your true, authentic self.3 -
boundsy88✭✭✭would nice to see a thread made by zos about this rather than them just comment on all the player threads about "dont name the people doing this blah blah blah, use the in game report player section blah blah blah"
at least if THEY made a thread we might be able to believe they are addressing it1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimatestevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »
I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked
As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)
As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.
It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?
Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.
I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.
Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.Edited by Nifty2g on May 30, 2016 10:36AM#MOREORBS2 -
22marshall04Soul ShrivenDelete their acount rapidly cause they turn your game into a garbage meeting !!!!!!!
No Need to give more word about that !!!!!!1 -
Sunburnt_Penguin✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah it's something that I've said and read from others many times before. The most recent (albeit less severe) case was of the Survey-Banker when even before disciplinary action was taken, lots of people (including myself) were advising severe bans. My reasoning wasn't about punishing these due to the rewards gained, per-se, but to do with the constant exploiting in which previous repercussions obviously haven't been a deterrent.This is what we were all ranting about in the previous exploits threads Sunburnt_Penguin.
ZOS has set a precedent that cheating has little to no consequence so why not do it? Also I would imagine most of the people doing it don't even care if they're banned any more.
There are so many people disenchanted (correct word?) with ZOS and ESO they will just mess it up for others on their way out.
Casual players won't notice and go about their normal days of levelling characters, enjoying content and doing dailies. The more hardcore community are the ones seeing it all and being outraged.
When human error from ZOS exists and exploits will always arise, they either need to act quickly or have a deterrent from exploiting. The easiest way is larger repercussions. However, the cynic in me believes that they let this particular exploit go on to try and boost sales of the Banker and as a result, felt morally obligated to give a slap on the wrist.0 -
Arthg✭✭✭✭✭
✭Three words: transparency; enforcement; deterrence.
I teach for a living.
On Day 1, I tell my students about my zero-tolerance policy regarding plagiarizing and cheating.
You plagiarize, you cheat, you get a FAIL, you get kicked out of the class.
PERIOD.
That's transparency.
When students hand in their work, I check their papers are not plagiarized.
During written tests, I don't sit on my thumbs reading a book or surfing these forums.
I walk up and down the room, making sure the students are working on their own using knowledge they have acquired.
That's enforcement.
Now mimicry and imitation are what drive our development: children imitate adults; disciples imitate masters; players imitate streamers. The vast majority of a given population will just follow the herd.
Here and there, you'll have exceptional talents, and ruthless thugs. What you want as a shepherd, as a teacher, as an institutional representative, as a game company, is to sway the herd away from the thugs, towards the talents.
The only way to do that is by laying down the rules and enforcing them: that's deterrence.
My marks mean something. They reward hard work and intelligence.
Sure, there must be a few talented cheaters who got away with it in spite of my efforts.
I only claim two things: I'll have made it really hard for them to cheat; they're a tiny minority.
Car-manufacturers cheat.
Bankers cheat.
Players cheat.
This is just human nature.
It is the rule-makers' responsibility to preserve a healthy, rewarding environment.
They can only achieve this through transparency, enforcement and deterrence.
Should they fail, the environment will purely and simply disappear.
As a rank and file player, I want an official statement in the launcher news declaring ZOS's policy towards cheating and evidence of punishment.
Short of that, I'll GTFO (and not giving away my stuff) and give ZOS a bad name on every opportunity.
PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. Pro scrub.15 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimatestevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »
I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked
As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)
As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.
It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?
Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.
I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.
Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.
Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?
Dont ever try and justify cheating.7 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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When an exploit like double mundus is made public and not fixed for 3 months, there is nothing you can do about it other than keeping the playing field fair. I never trust people when it comes to such things when posting videos hiding your UI and mundus stones because it clutters your screen .Sorry but this argument doesn't work here. I'm not justifying it, nor am I saying it was right, but it was NEEDED to keep things fair and competition still strong between us.
I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimatestevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »
I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked
As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)
As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.
It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?
Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.
I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.
Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.
Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?
Dont ever try and justify cheating.#MOREORBS2 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arth-grogalith wrote: »Three words: transparency; enforcement; deterrence.
I teach for a living.
On Day 1, I tell my students about my zero-tolerance policy regarding plagiarizing and cheating.
You plagiarize, you cheat, you get a FAIL, you get kicked out of the class.
PERIOD.
That's transparency.
When students hand in their work, I check their papers are not plagiarized.
During written tests, I don't sit on my thumbs reading a book or surfing these forums.
I walk up and down the room, making sure the students are working on their own using knowledge they have acquired.
That's enforcement.
Now mimicry and imitation are what drive our development: children imitate adults; disciples imitate masters; players imitate streamers. The vast majority of a given population will just follow the herd.
Here and there, you'll have exceptional talents, and ruthless thugs. What you want as a shepherd, as a teacher, as an institutional representative, as a game company, is to sway the herd away from the thugs, towards the talents.
The only way to do that is by laying down the rules and enforcing them: that's deterrence.
My marks mean something. They reward hard work and intelligence.
Sure, there must be a few talented cheaters who got away with it in spite of my efforts.
I only claim two things: I'll have made it really hard for them to cheat; they're a tiny minority.
Car-manufacturers cheat.
Bankers cheat.
Players cheat.
This is just human nature.
It is the rule-makers' responsibility to preserve a healthy, rewarding environment.
They can only achieve this through transparency, enforcement and deterrence.
Should they fail, the environment will purely and simply disappear.
As a rank and file player, I want an official statement in the launcher news declaring ZOS's policy towards cheating and evidence of punishment.
Short of that, I'll GTFO (and not giving away my stuff) and give ZOS a bad name on every opportunity.
Well damn! Lmao! I agree you 100% tho'. Burn this mother down! 1 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.
Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.
So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?
And that is exactly the point here.
ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.
No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"
ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"
Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.
The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.
Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.2 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.
So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.
ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.
When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.
This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.
Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.
So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?
And that is exactly the point here.
ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.
No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"
ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"
Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.
The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.
Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.
And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!2 -
Arthg✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimatestevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »
I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked
As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)
As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.
It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?
Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.
I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.
Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.
Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?
Dont ever try and justify cheating.
I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.
This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.PC/EU. NoCP PvP. sDK Orc IRL. Flawless tamperor. Pro scrub.2 -
giuseppe.rengab16_ESO wrote: »Those cheaters in Fengrush's stream should have done this all in the ESO Live stream on PTS. In the future, please do it everytime they're streaming ESO Live...I'd love to see their faces
This should have been a thing, I'd love to see their reactions1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't think it devalues the score what so ever, if both teams were going for #1 and this exploit you can never know who was doing it, you kinda had to agree to be open to it to keep things "fair", it's not right at all and it is unfair in a sense as its an exploit, but it was needed to keep it all fine between the two teams, we had been in VDSA for about 5 months progressing and something like this comes along and ruined it right towards the end, it's not worth for either team to throw their effort away. It shouldn't ever come to that, and I'm not justifying it, I'm just giving you an example of what some of the incompetence to bug fixing right away leads to in serious end game.arth-grogalith wrote: »
I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimatestevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »
I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked
As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)
As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.
It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?
Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.
I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.
Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.
Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?
Dont ever try and justify cheating.
I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.
This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.#MOREORBS2 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭arth-grogalith wrote: »
I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimatestevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »
I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked
As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)
As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.
It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?
Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.
I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.
Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.
Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.
Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?
Dont ever try and justify cheating.
I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.
This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.
100% zos' fault?
You put 0 blame at the doors of the people cheating?
If you leave your front door unlocked that doesnt give anybody free reign to rob your house. They are still thieving *** and the law would agree.Edited by Buffler on May 30, 2016 11:14AM2
you're too kind.This discussion has been closed.