[Permabans being lifted] ZOS how are we as a community dealing with exploits/hacking?

Nifty2g

Buffler wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?

Dont ever try and justify cheating.

I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.

This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.

100% zos' fault?

You put 0 blame at the doors of the people cheating?

If you leave your front door unlocked that doesnt give anybody free reign to rob your house.

Sorry dude, I see your point of view and I agree. But after putting months on end and day in and out practice and strategy finding only to have an exploit like this make its way to the public, and having about 4 teams compete for #1 right before the leaderboard reset. All teams agreed to do it as we could never know the malicious intent people had so no one could devalue their efforts by saying you only got #1 because you exploited and we didn't.

I'm not defending anyone I'm just saying it was necessary due to an incompetence at fixing a game breaking bug. And I do not believe this devalues anyones efforts at all. Stop trying to devalue an achievement we all agreed upon, none of my team really wanted to do it but we had to if we wanted our efforts to actually pay off, same with anyone else.

No it's not 100% their fault, and I find it very hard to trust people on the internet to be good sports about such thing, and I also blame zos 100% for leaving this bug in for months.

Now please, take this argument away if you want to continue it PM me.

sadownik

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

Buffler

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?

Dont ever try and justify cheating.

I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.

This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.

100% zos' fault?

You put 0 blame at the doors of the people cheating?

If you leave your front door unlocked that doesnt give anybody free reign to rob your house.

Sorry dude, I see your point of view and I agree. But after putting months on end and day in and out practice and strategy finding only to have an exploit like this make its way to the public, and having about 4 teams compete for #1 right before the leaderboard reset. All teams agreed to do it as we could never know the malicious intent people had so no one could devalue their efforts by saying you only got #1 because you exploited and we didn't.

I'm not defending anyone I'm just saying it was necessary due to an incompetence at fixing a game breaking bug. And I do not believe this devalues anyones efforts at all. Stop trying to devalue an achievement we all agreed upon, none of my team really wanted to do it but we had to if we wanted our efforts to actually pay off, same with anyone else.

No it's not 100% their fault, and I find it very hard to trust people on the internet to be good sports about such thing, and I also blame zos 100% for leaving this bug in for months.

Now please, take this argument away if you want to continue it PM me.

Im not arguing mate just taking in other peoples points of view. Forums are pointless if everyone agrees.

I agree with blaming zos 100% for not fixing it sooner. All bugs like that should be hotfixed immediately.

Arthg

Nifty2g wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?

Dont ever try and justify cheating.

I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.

This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.

I don't think it devalues the score what so ever, if both teams were going for #1 and this exploit you can never know who was doing it, you kinda had to agree to be open to it to keep things "fair", it's not right at all and it is unfair in a sense as its an exploit, but it was needed to keep it all fine between the two teams, we had been in VDSA for about 5 months progressing and something like this comes along and ruined it right towards the end, it's not worth for either team to throw their effort away. It shouldn't ever come to that, and I'm not justifying it, I'm just giving you an example of what some of the incompetence to bug fixing right away leads to in serious end game.

And to make it clear (although I'm not as competitive as you) - I agree with you

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Three words: transparency; enforcement; deterrence.

I teach for a living.

On Day 1, I tell my students about my zero-tolerance policy regarding plagiarizing and cheating.
You plagiarize, you cheat, you get a FAIL, you get kicked out of the class.
PERIOD.
That's transparency.

When students hand in their work, I check their papers are not plagiarized.
During written tests, I don't sit on my thumbs reading a book or surfing these forums.
I walk up and down the room, making sure the students are working on their own using knowledge they have acquired.
That's enforcement.

Now mimicry and imitation are what drive our development: children imitate adults; disciples imitate masters; players imitate streamers. The vast majority of a given population will just follow the herd.
Here and there, you'll have exceptional talents, and ruthless thugs. What you want as a shepherd, as a teacher, as an institutional representative, as a game company, is to sway the herd away from the thugs, towards the talents.
The only way to do that is by laying down the rules and enforcing them: that's deterrence.

My marks mean something. They reward hard work and intelligence.
Sure, there must be a few talented cheaters who got away with it in spite of my efforts.
I only claim two things: I'll have made it really hard for them to cheat; they're a tiny minority.

Car-manufacturers cheat.
Bankers cheat.
Players cheat.
This is just human nature.

It is the rule-makers' responsibility to preserve a healthy, rewarding environment.
They can only achieve this through transparency, enforcement and deterrence.
Should they fail, the environment will purely and simply disappear.

As a rank and file player, I want an official statement in the launcher news declaring ZOS's policy towards cheating and evidence of punishment.

Short of that, I'll GTFO (and not giving away my stuff) and give ZOS a bad name on every opportunity.

Well damn! Lmao! I agree you 100% tho'. Burn this mother down!

Cheers mate! I am quite angry though, hence the cute little essay

Buffler wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Repost vids, send in vids via tickets and dont name players then the thread wont get locked

I think when players are hacking, then videos are fine, I don't see why we can't name and shame. We don't want to hide the toxic players in the community, why are we protecting them. Get rid of them once and for all.

As for the Maelstrom Arena before that gets out of hand, I've been seeing players all day getting high scores who are mainly unnamed/unknown in the realms of PvE.
But honestly the players who held #1 are my friends and my guild mates, they have put countless hours of effort into keeping that spot, to have someone come in and ruin it is just disgusting behavior because they know nothing will happen to them. If I was #1 I would be completely pissed that I would be unable to grab a screenshot to show the achievement before Dark Brotherhood goes live because someone had hacked and gotten a seemingly impossible score. (which is actually a 29 Minute clear.)

As for PvP, I know it has less of a direct impact like PvE leaderboards do, but players should also get punished thinking how they can get away with such *** I don't understand how time after time you allow players to exploit, no more 3 day ban, stand handing out permanent bans, especially to those who have received one before and decided to come back and disrespect the company outright.

It's sad to say, but this now becomes another problem...you say that you and all your friends with high scores are legit, but who will believe they are now?
And who will believe that Hodor (EU) are always first to complete trials due to being good or because speculation and hearsay may also point to it being a guild of cheaters?

Once the poison of cheating sets in and the finger pointing starts then where does it go from here? There will be a witch hunt.

I enjoy playing this game and basically have given up on large parts of it due to all the cheating...the spoilers are spoiling it for the rest of us.

Good luck with trying to keep your name and the that of your friends untarnished by this. If I were you, I would no longer put your "World Best" scores in your signature as no one will believe it anymore.

I have videos online of my all my scores, so do hodor. theres no cheating like that, please dont say that kind of stuff when guilds/players go through a lot to prove their stuff is legitimate

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

Or you could have not cheated and neither use it?

Dont ever try and justify cheating.

I find it hard to point my finger at @Nifty2g.
At least he was honest about it.

This is just mimicry in action, and a total failure of ZOS as rule-makers to keep a healthy, rewarding environment.
100% their fault.

100% zos' fault?

You put 0 blame at the doors of the people cheating?

If you leave your front door unlocked that doesnt give anybody free reign to rob your house. They are still thieving *** and the law would agree.

I understand your point, but I think you overlook the importance of the environment and of other people's behaviours.
Your example works in a community of honest people (there are still a few places like that in Ireland, *sighs*).
But you can't expect people to behave like heroes all the time.
In fact, it's when a system works only thanks to people's good will that it begins to collapse.
Honest, legit players that have worked hard to get on the leaderboards or improve their PVP skills can only have so much patience when they see cheaters beating and killing them, and getting way with it.
I strongly believe that there's something wicked in human nature, and that to keep it in check, you need deterring, enforced rules.

Otherwise, it's just the [Snip] that'll win.

[Removed censor bypass]

JD2013

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

SlayerTheDragon

IS THE LAG BETTER NOW??

Ch4mpTW

SlayerTheDragon wrote: »

IS THE LAG BETTER NOW??

Lmao, this is ESO. And in a place like Cyrodiil? Hell no.

sadownik

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

I agree that other MMOs were hacked, but ffs... with CE?

SlayerTheDragon

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SlayerTheDragon wrote: »

IS THE LAG BETTER NOW??

Lmao, this is ESO. And in a place like Cyrodiil? Hell no.

@Ch4mpTW I am looking for confirmation. If lag is better then it proves that they dropped the server-side validation. It also proves that the server-side validation did in fact cause the lag.

JD2013

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

I agree that other MMOs were hacked, but ffs... with CE?

Now, I agree there are plenty of things that need fixing around here.

I also agree that it's a ludicrous situation that it was hacked with that particular programme, however for me it is not the method. It is the fact that these idiots chose to do this for fun, or under some kind of self righteous guise of "we are just showing ZOS!"

That is what I take issue with.

Arthg

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

So in essence what you're saying is that it's OK for a game with a $200m budget to be hacked by spoilt, bored 15-year-olds using a world-famous platform? That ZOS shouldn't have known better, in the light of the very precedents in other MMOs that YOU've mentioned?

I beg to differ.

JD2013

arth-grogalith wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

So in essence what you're saying is that it's OK for a game with a $200m budget to be hacked by spoilt, bored 15-year-olds using a world-famous platform? That ZOS shouldn't have known better, in the light of the very precedents in other MMOs that YOU've mentioned?

I beg to differ.

Believe me, the budget of this game was not 200 million dollars

And, of course, ZOS should make security and indeed should have made security much tighter and a priority.

However, as with everything in life, if hackers want to hack



Now is this an excuse? Absolutely not. They need to start looking inward at their client and the servers, and shift and fix and move things around.

But those that chose to hack have responsibility too. Never forget that.

Riggsy

Nifty2g wrote: »

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

So you openly admit to cheating in the past, in a thread you created to blast cheaters... Wow...

Arthg

JD2013 wrote: »

arth-grogalith wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

What I find remarkable (for lack of a better word) is that people are actually using this blatant exploit/hack (whatever). I mean, 10 Meteors raining down like some Apocalyptic event isn't at all subtle is it.

So, given that all they're gaining is; AP, possibly a better chance for someone to get Emp and rewards (from both PvP and vMA); they're simply just not worried about the repercussions from ZOS which obviously stems from the precedent they've set when tackling (or lack of thereof) exploits/hacks. The benefits (even as marginal as these) from exploiting obviously outweighs anything ZOS throws at them and as long as that mentality is present, these kind of things will continue to occur.

ZOS really needs to increase the severity of the disciplinary action, sack off their mentality of "we do not discuss disciplinary action" and be more proactive (but even just reactive!) in tackling these exploits/hacks.

When you think about the punishments handed out for the whole survey writ fiasco it's not really surprising that they're just not bothered by the thought of any repercussions, I mean a few days ban IF they're caught isn't a deterrent really is it.

This is different though........the writ fiasco was an exploit, a loophole in ZOS game.....this is changing coding which is a hack using a 3rd party program. Premediated hacking. I fully expect permabans etc. The ban hammer will fall and fall hard. Even Jessica said in the pvp section the circumstances are extraordinary and Zos will publish (she said no reason why not) what punishments are handed out. Thats never been done before.

Whether they've done it before or not publishing what punishments are handed isn't a big deal, so they make a thread about it just to shut the community up and make it look like they've done something *shrugs*, most of the cheats won't be caught or punished anyway, at this point it's a PR damage control situation so they've got to be seen to be doing something no matter how insignificant.

So ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they dont?

And that is exactly the point here.

ZOS can't do anything without people jumping all over them.

No comment on the hacking - "ZOMG you're the worst ZOS!"

ZOS publish the hacker list and what punishments were handed out - "ZOMG ZOS you're the worst!"

Of course, it could never be the fault of the hackers who downloaded third party software to do it. No, it's always ZOS at fault, and has been since day 1 of this game.

The game certainly has problems, but the dogpile of hatred on these forums has gotten tiresome. Let's play devils advocate here and imagine ZOS announced tomorrow that they were closing servers permanently. Where would you go to scream then? I genuinely think that's what half of people on here want.

Quit that bs please. Z. fault is absolute disregard for most basic anti cheat system implementation and if you dont see it perhaps take off your sparkly white full metal helmet.

And clearly people like you don't see a little thing called personal responsibility.

Did i say hackers are not responsible? Its sure as hell they are. But some part of respnsibility lies on Z. Its a freaking old and simple software that was used. There is a reason why now its mainly used in single player games. No MMO would allow this to happen, well at least i thought so till this point.

And I never said that ZOS aren't at least partly responsible. I am merely saying the dogpile of hatred on them at this point is tiresome.

I completely agree that ZOS should likely shift more stuff client side as opposed to server side for a start, and there should be GM's in game like there was at the beginning. And that is just the start of what they could do.

However these idiots chose to download software that has nothing to do with ZOS and do this. That is what I am getting at. ZOS did not tell them to do this. This is something they did off their own backs.

And plenty of MMO'S have been hacked. Just google hacking followed by Guild Wars 2, World of Warcraft and others.

So in essence what you're saying is that it's OK for a game with a $200m budget to be hacked by spoilt, bored 15-year-olds using a world-famous platform? That ZOS shouldn't have known better, in the light of the very precedents in other MMOs that YOU've mentioned?

I beg to differ.

Believe me, the budget of this game was not 200 million dollars

And, of course, ZOS should make security and indeed should have made security much tighter and a priority.

However, as with everything in life, if hackers want to hack



Now is this an excuse? Absolutely not. They need to start looking inward at their client and the servers, and shift and fix and move things around.

But those that chose to hack have responsibility too. Never forget that.

I stand corrected on the budget.
My whole point, though, is that hackers/cheaters being who they are, there's no point focusing on them.
It's pointless to appeal to some eluding sense of personal responsibility: they don't give a rat's rosebud and, as I said before - honest players can only have so much patience.
The only leverage we've got in my view, is to push ZOS as rule-makers to make it super-hard to cheat (and you offer reasonable solutions), and to enforce rules publicly so as to deter potential followers.

Duiwel

Come tomorrow night my guild mates & I will kill them all free of charge

SlayerTheDragon

Duiwel wrote: »

Come tomorrow night my guild mates & I will kill them all free of charge

@Duiwel have you noticed a better ping since this hack started?

JD2013

Duiwel wrote: »

Come tomorrow night my guild mates & I will kill them all free of charge

Let's do this!

IOUAT

why not post the names here if there cheating they deserve to be shamed end of story

Duiwel

SlayerTheDragon wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Come tomorrow night my guild mates & I will kill them all free of charge

@Duiwel have you noticed a better ping since this hack started?

I must digress I PvP'd till about 7pm and then I couldn't handle the lag ( my guildies said there was not lag ), I blamed it due to my distance from the server so I cannot actually confirm.

Is it better?

I'd say too much has changed since 2014 for the "anti bot" to be the only obstacle affecting PvP lag. Hell my ping was better in 2014 on NA servers than it's on EU servers now

What's your experience with it?

I can test it tonight though... if the server validation ending happened mid evening then it's possible if it was already like that the day before then definitely NOT because I still had the "everyone standing still, oh no I have to Alt + F4 now..." experience last night. I didn't bother going back after that.

EDIT: @SlayerTheDragon (just so he gets the notification)

Tommy1979AtWar

I'm on console and was wondering about this... when ESO first launched on console it actually worked, there was no lag etc but a few weeks before IC was released there was a notable downturn in performance.
So was the anti cheat code in the initial console launch and if so why as it's not really worth the effort in jailbreaking current gen consoles, or was it added a little while before IC and that's what caused the significant drop in performance.

Cously

I had lag all of the night in TF NA. I'm always suspicious of my end since I live in a third world, but others in my grope complained as well. They from US, Canadia and Rooland.

Cously

Cously wrote: »

I had lag all of the night in TF NA. I'm always suspicious of my end since I live in a third world, but others in my grope complained as well. They from US, Canadia and Rooland.

EDIT: TF and lag can be really redundant, but I want to state I don't lag in it, and I play a lot. Last night was ridiculous.

mtwiggz

Turelus wrote: »

@Ch4mpTW on this issue I lost faith about a year and a half ago.

I love this game, I love the developers but as I've said there is some messed up backwards corporate style of running things going on which doesn't mesh with an MMO company.

I won't give up given them lip for these kinds of issues, I just wondering how long it's worth trying for rather than playing the game and pretending it's not cheat2win.

So for ZOS (if they're still reading) once again here are all the examples of what you should be doing.

SWTOR Exploit Warning Post
EVE Online Exploits Page
Diablo 3 Exploit Warning Post
Guild Wars 2 Reddit Comment

Take note of how every other major company actually talks about the issues, how they warn people and then ban them and then ban them.

Here is an example from EVE Online from this year.
Firstly they make a news post when they become aware: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/drone-exploit-notification/ This news post is on the websites/forums/launcher/character select or as close to everywhere they can get it.
Then they fix the issue ASAP, not "next update" ASAP.
Then they look through the data and reports and take action against accounts.
Note that CCP now has a two strike policy (down from three) meaning temp ban, then perma ban.
They have a smaller player base and ESO but haven't been doomed by very draconian rules enforcement so that argument can't be used.

Here are three videos from their security team talking about rules enforcement and server security. Notice how they're open about things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vd-CpnjvAM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CZR9w3ftjY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE

On a personal note which I am not sure matters to ZOS but hey ***...

I really hope someone from ZOS actually takes the time to watch those videos, because for whatever you want to say about EVE Online the company running it are probably one of the best in the world. I invest seven years of my life into that game, took five vacations to Iceland to attend their fanfest, dropped money on $100+ collectables, was a member of a corp (guild) of friends for five years.

This year I unsubbed and left all of that behind because I liked ESO more, for all the issues this game faces I enjoy the base mechanics and gameplay of it more. However when threads like this are happening, when I sit and work reading the forums at lunch and every single day I see a new thread about exploits get buried and ignored or just moderated away, I have to ask myself why am I bothering, there are better ways to spend my time and money.

CCP, granted a very small company with a smaller player base, is by far one of the best gaming companies around to date. They take exploits and "hacks" very seriously. Often within 24 hours these exploits/"hacks" are resolved with anyone found to be using them punished. I played Eve for many years and never saw something like what's going on in ESO run for so long.

ZoS on the other hand has been obvious to this going on for quite some time now. It's just now come to light with people being more obvious about it. It's been nearly 72 hours since the huge outrage of this and still not a single proper acknowledgement. That's what I find most pathetic.

Phelaen

i am more worried about the people using these cheat engines marginally then the idiots that make it so obvious they are cheating.

its way harder to spot people that do 20% more dps with 20% more health and 20% more regen
for all we know its been going on for a long time and some of the people we think are really good are just pulling a "lance Armstrong" and EPOing up.

does ZOS even have a security team? and why the silence about it? i dont understand why ZOS is allways so slow and minimal in their responses.

Give CCP a call, ask them how its done.

AdmiralSam

Riggsy wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Funny story about Major Update 6, because we had such a close compeititon with HODOR we had to both agree that we're allowed ot use the double mundus exploit so that we can keep a fair competition. Sucks when that happens, but when an exploit like double mundus goes viral you have to all agree to do it so no one is on the upper hand.

So you openly admit to cheating in the past, in a thread you created to blast cheaters... Wow...

Doing an IN-GAME exploit isn't the same as running a 3RD PARTY software. While most of us recognize in-game exploits as dirty, it is nothing in comparison to what the people this thread is about do. I really hope you can see that.

clayandaudrey_ESO

They might as well remove Cyrodiil from the game at this point. Anything they do to try to stop this (like the bots) will result in more lag. It is unplayable for most now. Just think what it will be like with a new script running looking for this.

Jaronking

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

I'm on console and was wondering about this... when ESO first launched on console it actually worked, there was no lag etc but a few weeks before IC was released there was a notable downturn in performance.
So was the anti cheat code in the initial console launch and if so why as it's not really worth the effort in jailbreaking current gen consoles, or was it added a little while before IC and that's what caused the significant drop in performance.

I always wondered this myself what did they add before Imperial City that brought so much lag.I know their was lag with final keep battles when everyone in the dam faction was their at the start but it was only at that area now its everywhere.

elium85

So, I hate to be pessimistic (and I'm on Xbox so I don't have a dog in the fight) but is this even something ZOS can fix? Or is the issue so deeply embedded in their body of code that fixing it would take restructuring of huge portions of the server-client communications and hundreds or thousands of development hours?

HuawaSepp

Same thing that happened with GTA Online.
CE is also working there.

But be positive, now some of you realize why they had problems with money dps etc

shauny.gibbsb16_ESO

I don't get why game companies dont just make a very verbal zero tolerance to hacks etc, once they come down real hard just one time it would put the average player off, be the company that everyone knows will not stand for it.