InfaM wrote: »

Anything else than that current RNG would be fine.

S'yn wrote: »

Proposed solution:

Last chest drops a "Veteran weapon shard: This unique crafting item can be used by any player to create a VMA weapon of their choice. The inherent trait of the weapon is still random due to the chaotic nature of the shards. Drop rate 100% from last chest."

This give people a guarantee to have a desirable weapon, but still a keeps the trait random. People won't just run it once and never go back (which would be bad for ZOS). Players win because their chance to get the desired weapon is like 10-15% instead of 1-2%. Realistically, people would still have to run the arenas a few times to get the "perfect" choice for their build. Die hards get to keep leader boards, players get a realistic chance for a desired weapon without it being a "gimme," and ZOS makes playerbase happy, no?

Artis wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

And what is that purpose? To be a gift from the whims of RNG? You might like that, but in case you haven't noticed, nobody else does. And why the **** is it "supposed to be rare"? As I've said ad nauseam, it is rare by merit of vMA being difficult for the vast majority of players to complete. Why the hell do you think it's a good idea to layer on top of that an additional rarity check that's based on luck? You say that it's "supposed" to be like this. Why? What is the merit in having it like that?

Luck is not a universally appropriate factor in games. Some games--like gambling--are appropriate places for luck. Some games--like chess--are games where luck has absolutely no place. If I wanted to be rewarded for luck, I'll go find a slot machine and mindlessly pull the lever like an idiot. But when I play a game that requires skill, then my tolerance for luck is very low. And if you can't wrap your head around that... then I don't know what else to say to you.

Guys, you don't like it - you want it to change. You go for it. Notice, I have nothing against any of you personally. I just disagree it HAS to be changed. I'm good regardless. You have your opinion, I have mine, no need to bash me for it. I just express it here like you do.

Why is it supposed to be rare? Well, first of all, because ZOS said that back in vDSA times. Did you complain about those master weps too? I dont' remember them being such a big deal and that dungeon use to be difficult too. With 100 deaths per group (25per player) instead of 400 deaths per player. Like, people could actually fail that dungeon. Second reason - we should have some gear that's rare, why not? If everything is easily accessible then it's not as valuable. Who cares about gear when everyone wears the same stuff?
Finally, about RNG, as I said already - if it wasn't for RNG everyone would get those weapons really fast. Mind you - there are no cooldowns here. If it can be guaranteed after a week or even a month of farm - everyone would've had it by now. Do you really want that to be the case? If you really really think about it? I just don't think it's better for the game.

There's luck in chess. Whenever you throw a coin or whatever to see who's white and who's black. White side has advantage and wins more often. You can google it if you don't believe me. It's a trend that can still be seen over millions of games. If you didn't want luck to play any role in your rewards, why did you start playing this MMO? I mean, in every MMO I know there's always some RNG and luck plays role. Even when the skill is required. Once again, let's see at wow, those raid are very very skill-demanding, they are legit hard and you can see that not everyone can complete hard modes (now there's mythic I heard?) in time - as in by the end of the content patch before the next raid/addon is released. And even there you got RNG. And that's the most successful and probably the best MMORPG to date. Sure, ESO has potential to be even better, but they seem to cater to a much lower skill level.

I literally don't know any MMORPG without RNG/luck factor. Maybe if there is one - it's not successful? And part of the reason it's not might be that players get everything fast and don't stay in game? Anyways, what MMO has no RNG and requires the skill?

InfaM wrote: »

I'm sure most of the people against a system that rewards accomplishement (like tokens) are people that never stepped in VMA or that are not able to complete it, so they either don't give a *** about it and talk about something they don't know because they have no idea about what VMA grind is like so they base their arguments according to their experience in other game , or they simply act like the current system is fine because they can't complete VMA and think that it's a good thing that people able to complete it are still at the same point as them (with no VMA weapon yet)

There is NO players that spent hours farming that place for no rewards that would discuss the accomplishement system rewards, only a player who never plan to step there or who is resigned at never being able to complete it can be against it.

And I don't want to be elitist but let's be honest , I think nobody gives a *** about those person opinions about VMA , it's like me giving my opinion to F1 pilots about how to tune their cars for better driving control while I never drived one in my life or crashed on a wall when I attempted to drive one.

At some point you need to talk about the content that you're able to experience in the game and not about content that you don't care about or are not able to experience yet. So come back to talk about how you like VMA RNG when you have opened hundred of chest.
Like I don't care about RP, I'm not doing RP, I won't go to the RP threads and tell everyone that I know better than them what has to be done for RP.

Why do you think I haven't spent my hours in vMA? I have no way to prove it to you, but I'm not the worst player in the game, and I am able to complete vMA and completed it many times and got a 500k+ score and a good spot on the leaderboard a while ago (haven't played vma since then, no time). Again, can't prove I had 100+ runs. It's funny how you think ALL players are selfish and just want to get gear 100% even if it interferes with what's best for the whole game.

But ok, I guess don't give a *** about my opinion? Is there like 10 people in the entire game whose opinion should be taken into account? You can go on and on trying to imply how I'm just bad and never completed vMA, but it's not the case here.

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

The result is what matters. Both deserve to be rewarded. You can argue that the one with higher skill deserves a higher reward, but something like this already exists. It's called Leaderboard Weekly.

@Artis Are you a communist or something? I used to live in Communist Russia. Everyone was equal, no matter if you're a top-notch entrepreneur, scientist or construction worker. Everyone had the same living conditions and the same pay. You know how that turned out? Empty stores because no one bothered to optimize the supply chains; on the news, the anchors were holding electric shavers to simulate cordless microphones (the US already had them at that point) because no one bothered to invent them; and since life without any chance of reward sucks, absolutely everyone was an alcoholic, including most women and children.

If it wasn't for the Maelstrom weapon, which would be an extreme improvement to my build, I would've never stepped foot in vMA.
And yes, I deserve a reward. And yes, I find it unfair that many have gotten their weapons after 10 - 20 runs, some on their first run, while I haven't gotten mine in almost 200 runs. And yes, I find it ridiculous that the only chance to get a weapon is the Leaderboard, since the chest doesn't drop weapons. And for some reason, even though those weapons seem to not matter to you, Artis, people are willing to pay HUGE amounts of real money to cheaters to place their characters on the weekly LB week after week for a shot at the weapon. And as a fair player, I have to compete with that. I can't just chill through it. I have to break mechanics, skip chests and endure a lot of pressure to get on the LB. How can you support such a system?

Yeah, I come from there too. And no, it turned out like that because others united to kill them economically and politically. Look at communist China or native americans who still live in communas. That stuff works.
Then again, just because they failed once or twice it doesn't mean that the system is bad. I can make the same argument about capitalism , where 1% controls 99% resources and most people are illiterate and can't afford ***. Especially compared to 1%. I say, you should keep politics away from the game forum, please. Also, if you have to bring it up - it's the people who want everyone to have a guaranteed weapon are the ones who promote communism, not me. I say, 1 lucky % should have weapons, just like in your beloved capitalism p.s.in real market luck plays role. Not everything depends on your effort and the result is not proportional to effort spent.

I explained why I support the system. I obviously don't take into account that people pay real money to other players - those guys will be found by IP and banned/weps deleted anyway if ZOS cares. I understand your feelings and not stopping you from asking what you want. I just disagree. Sure, you dislike the system because you happened to be an unlucky one for now, but there's always someone.

That's the point - it has to be rare AND improve build enough for people to want it. That's what makes it valuable. What you're asking for is to leave us no valuable gear in the game at all. Everyone has everything and access to everything already. And whoever doesn't - will have it in the next DLC. They already gave you 50% to loot a weapon. You won, congrats. I just don't understand why we can't have valuable gear.

Artis wrote: »

Makes sense, thanks. You know sometimes I think maybe we don't understand who is the majority/minority. And there's a concept of vocal minority too. Looks like lots of people complained about those respecs. But you can't blame them. You can blame ZOS who simply removed it instead of making it optional.
And yes, it's like that in life that even governments often listen to minorities and those get special treatment.

Makes me sick, PC culture even got into Tamriel. I literally can't recall as many straight couples as gay couples, not to mention gay NPC who have to mention something to make sure everyone knows they are gay. Straight NPCs don't do that if there are any.. we wouldn't know they don't scream that they are straight left and right. On the other hand, gay NPCsin this game are like vegans and crossfitters and they are everywhere. Why? I wonder if there will be a DLC explaining what happened to them that there are none in TES games that happen later in time. It's just sad that zos caved in and changed the spirit of the world just so that no one says they aren't progressive and not every group is represented including the ones that never really were there.

But see, they can also listen to you, however it doesn't bother/trigger me. It's still funny how I'm automatically bad and can't complete anything if I disagree with a selfproclaimed Pro.

Artis wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Artis, since no dev has come in here to defend the RNG loot system, and since you are the only one defending it (probably because you're the only one who actually likes it?), you've made yourself the symbol of something that we all despise. The frustration directed at you is mostly the frustration against a pure RNG loot system (though it also often feels like we're talking to a wall ).

Ah come on. No dev has come in here to support any alternative system either. It might feel like a wall because you can't do much with this unshakable logic lol. The thing is, I'm not the only one. After all, devs came to this system rather than any other possible system. And you guys simply might be the vocal minority. It may be the case that most people do not hate this system so they don't go to forums to complain, ever thought about this?

But sure, direct your anger at me.

Forgive them Arenjesus for they do not know what they are doing.

Artis wrote: »

Because some people know how superposition principle works. If you have one system that favors pros by far and another one that is fair to everyone and can screw pros and garbage like myself equally, then when you impose them on each other - you will have a system that favors pros, but the floor will be a little higher.

In other words, pros will get both tokens and a dice roll, while others will only have dice rolls. This system is obviously asymmetric and isn't fair.