Official Feedback Thread for the Rebalance of ICP, WGT, and Veteran CoA

Shunravi · May 2016

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

I was just wondering...
All you people out there that say you would help a noob out to learn the mechanics of vWGT and vICP, what about a player that doesn't have a mic to communicate with or isn't allowed to talk on a mic, like me (don't ask me why)
People always dump the micless player.

I've been trying to complete speed runs of the vet dungeons with the base game to get akatosh-scales-gold by using the group finder; because I can't find any guilds that would help me otherwise. Just because I don't use a mic.

I can understand that it makes it difficult to communicate with, but what's one to do?

I play on ps4 so I have no means to text chat, which I think is still going to be useless during fight.

I just wish there were patient enough players to tolerate such people and help them out.

It depends how well you learn from trial and error. I can summarize the most important things in a pm, and update you on any other things you may be having trouble with. You don't usually text chat during the fight.... But a hasty pm may come your way....

Regardless, you can still listen right? Don't really need you to talk you know.

There are also nonverbal communication things like miming with your character.

Your best bet though may be reading guides and watching videos.

And there are obviously others in your situation. Guild up together in an explicitly micless guild. Same goes for other situations as well, you obviously share a complaint with others, be sure you can group with people in a similar situation.

byrom101b16_ESO · May 2016

baratron wrote: »

We ran Veteran White-Gold Tower last night on Live, followed by PTS. We were the same group of 4 players, and tried to keep as many variables as possible constant: same characters, same gear, similar CP.

I found Vet WGT harder on PTS than on Live.

Why? Because my main is a Sorcerer, and all of my Veterans are Magic users. I am used to running with Hardened Ward and/or Harness Magicka throughout that dungeon.

I don't doubt that the enemies had less health, and that there were fewer adds. I found the Planar Inhibitor and Molag Kena much harder. I have learned to survive both of them by keeping shields up constantly, so that I stay alive to heal everyone else. Without shields, I will have to learn new tactics, and I am not sure what those are yet.

I am sure that "elite" players who have enough DPS to "burn" the bosses will find the dungeons a lot easier now. I personally, as a not-elite player, think that the difficulty nerf was absolutely essential considering the massive nerf to shields. I am dreading Lord Warden on Hard Mode.

So I am really quite unimpressed with the "rebalancing". If the changes to Vet WGT are similar to the changes in Vet ICP and Vet CoA, I do not believe that more players will be able to complete them now than could complete them before. Either the dungeons have to be nerfed into the ground so that they become utterly boring, or the changes to shields need to be reverted in PvE. Given that my group has been happily running these dungeons for the past few months, you can guess which of these ideas I am more in favour of.

Regarding itemization, it seemed very hit and miss. I obtained five shiny purple items:
Jolting Sabatons - Sturdy - Bind on Equip
Shock Master's Guards - Infused - Bound
Overwhelming Shoes - Prosperous - Bind on Equip
Shock Master's Helmet - Reinforced - Bound
Cuirass of the Imperium - Prosperous - Bind on Equip

Some of these were obtained from bosses and others from trash mobs.

Also, it wasn't even a case that some sets were Bind on Pickup and others were Bind on Equip, because two people got Essence Thief items from The Adjudicator. The Essence Thief Belt was Bound whereas the Essence Thief Guards were Bind on Equip?!

I find it very interesting that what most people call an easier dungeon (a bad idea ZOS...) is nevertheless reported as being much harder by a Sorcerer player who is good enough to do it on live but cannot on PTS. This is direct proof of the real and damaging nature of the nerf to Sorcerers.

As for burning these down - who is going to take a magicka class with their 9% less damage from loss of Slayer for magicka builds when burning is now more of a thing?

Joy_Division · May 2016

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

I was just wondering...
All you people out there that say you would help a noob out to learn the mechanics of vWGT and vICP, what about a player that doesn't have a mic to communicate with or isn't allowed to talk on a mic, like me (don't ask me why)
People always dump the micless player.

I've been trying to complete speed runs of the vet dungeons with the base game to get akatosh-scales-gold by using the group finder; because I can't find any guilds that would help me otherwise. Just because I don't use a mic.

I can understand that it makes it difficult to communicate with, but what's one to do?

I play on ps4 so I have no means to text chat, which I think is still going to be useless during fight.

I just wish there were patient enough players to tolerate such people and help them out.

I don't need you to talk. I do need you to kill portals relatively quickly. Maybe take the initiative and grab a pinion once in a while if you see it open and nobody going for it.

Shunravi · May 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

I was just wondering...
All you people out there that say you would help a noob out to learn the mechanics of vWGT and vICP, what about a player that doesn't have a mic to communicate with or isn't allowed to talk on a mic, like me (don't ask me why)
People always dump the micless player.

I've been trying to complete speed runs of the vet dungeons with the base game to get akatosh-scales-gold by using the group finder; because I can't find any guilds that would help me otherwise. Just because I don't use a mic.

I can understand that it makes it difficult to communicate with, but what's one to do?

I play on ps4 so I have no means to text chat, which I think is still going to be useless during fight.

I just wish there were patient enough players to tolerate such people and help them out.

I don't need you to talk. I do need you to kill portals relatively quickly. Maybe take the initiative and grab a pinion once in a while if you see it open and nobody going for it.

Yup. Who cares if you can't talk. You can still listen right?

And kill portals....

elven.were_wolf · May 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

I was just wondering...
All you people out there that say you would help a noob out to learn the mechanics of vWGT and vICP, what about a player that doesn't have a mic to communicate with or isn't allowed to talk on a mic, like me (don't ask me why)
People always dump the micless player.

I've been trying to complete speed runs of the vet dungeons with the base game to get akatosh-scales-gold by using the group finder; because I can't find any guilds that would help me otherwise. Just because I don't use a mic.

I can understand that it makes it difficult to communicate with, but what's one to do?

I play on ps4 so I have no means to text chat, which I think is still going to be useless during fight.

I just wish there were patient enough players to tolerate such people and help them out.

I don't need you to talk. I do need you to kill portals relatively quickly. Maybe take the initiative and grab a pinion once in a while if you see it open and nobody going for it.

Yup. Who cares if you can't talk. You can still listen right?

And kill portals....

That's what I do!
Whenever I'm about to do any dungeon I look for a veteran dungeon guide so I'm less of an annoyance to my fellow group members. I always make sure to listen to my fellow group members, but usually I end up being more informed about the dungeon than them! They end up dying and wasting my soul gems because they don't know the mechanics.

I wouldn't call myself a new player as I'v been playing ESO for more than a year and a half. But I'm new to dungeons because I never have the sufficient number of players to do them. I haven't even completed the normal versions of them yet! ( talking about regular dungeons other that ICP and WGT )

But I always notice that when I say I don't have a mic on ps4 people get discouraged to play with me. So that's what I thought was the problem.

Shunravi · May 2016

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

I was just wondering...
All you people out there that say you would help a noob out to learn the mechanics of vWGT and vICP, what about a player that doesn't have a mic to communicate with or isn't allowed to talk on a mic, like me (don't ask me why)
People always dump the micless player.

I've been trying to complete speed runs of the vet dungeons with the base game to get akatosh-scales-gold by using the group finder; because I can't find any guilds that would help me otherwise. Just because I don't use a mic.

I can understand that it makes it difficult to communicate with, but what's one to do?

I play on ps4 so I have no means to text chat, which I think is still going to be useless during fight.

I just wish there were patient enough players to tolerate such people and help them out.

I don't need you to talk. I do need you to kill portals relatively quickly. Maybe take the initiative and grab a pinion once in a while if you see it open and nobody going for it.

Yup. Who cares if you can't talk. You can still listen right?

And kill portals....

That's what I do!
Whenever I'm about to do any dungeon I look for a veteran dungeon guide so I'm less of an annoyance to my fellow group members. I always make sure to listen to my fellow group members, but usually I end up being more informed about the dungeon than them! They end up dying and wasting my soul gems because they don't know the mechanics.

I wouldn't call myself a new player as I'v been playing ESO for more than a year and a half. But I'm new to dungeons because I never have the sufficient number of players to do them. I haven't even completed the normal versions of them yet! ( talking about regular dungeons other that ICP and WGT )

But I always notice that when I say I don't have a mic on ps4 people get discouraged to play with me. So that's what I thought was the problem.

Yea...

As you can see by the first reply you got, and then mine after, that there is an assumption of no mic=no listening. Not sure why, but I jumped on that way of thought right away. Even though it's a very untrue assumption. I guess it's the thought that no mic means no headset, and if you aren't talking then you may be playing without sound or something....

It's a weird cognative bias.

I have never heard the voice of some of the best and most fun players I know. I've barely seen them type in chat either. But I know they listen in teamspeak, and they read chat. So I think it's kinda odd I thought with that bias at first...

And again we have the issue of people basing confidence in a player on these types of things.

I have no idea of the mindsets of others, especially on ps4. But there have been threads where people complain about this kinda stuff. It's odd I guess. I may know a guy on ps4 who could run some dungeons with you if you would like.

The kicker is that in larger groups it's actually preferred that you don't talk much at all, as it can hinder coordination to have people talking over each other.

Mush55 · May 2016

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

I was just wondering...
All you people out there that say you would help a noob out to learn the mechanics of vWGT and vICP, what about a player that doesn't have a mic to communicate with or isn't allowed to talk on a mic, like me (don't ask me why)
People always dump the micless player.

I've been trying to complete speed runs of the vet dungeons with the base game to get akatosh-scales-gold by using the group finder; because I can't find any guilds that would help me otherwise. Just because I don't use a mic.

I can understand that it makes it difficult to communicate with, but what's one to do?

I play on ps4 so I have no means to text chat, which I think is still going to be useless during fight.

I just wish there were patient enough players to tolerate such people and help them out.

I don't need you to talk. I do need you to kill portals relatively quickly. Maybe take the initiative and grab a pinion once in a while if you see it open and nobody going for it.

Yup. Who cares if you can't talk. You can still listen right?

And kill portals....

That's what I do!
Whenever I'm about to do any dungeon I look for a veteran dungeon guide so I'm less of an annoyance to my fellow group members. I always make sure to listen to my fellow group members, but usually I end up being more informed about the dungeon than them! They end up dying and wasting my soul gems because they don't know the mechanics.

I wouldn't call myself a new player as I'v been playing ESO for more than a year and a half. But I'm new to dungeons because I never have the sufficient number of players to do them. I haven't even completed the normal versions of them yet! ( talking about regular dungeons other that ICP and WGT )

But I always notice that when I say I don't have a mic on ps4 people get discouraged to play with me. So that's what I thought was the problem.

Just a matter of getting in a guild or a good grp who run with you regularly, out of my guild I am the only one who dosn't speak.
But they will take me on any dugeon run because they know I listen and play my role to the best that I can

Mojmir · May 2016

so we did the COA pledge last night in under 12 mins,no death,HM. 3 dps and a vr8 healer. still think it needs to be nerfed?
ran VWGT for the 2nd time ever,3 dps and a vr8 healer. one death during boss fight due to lag.still think it needs to be nerfed?
havent run ICP yet so i cant say anything.

if anything in this game needs to be nerfed,its the fact i gotta reset my UI every 8-10mins.

f047ys3v3n · May 2016

ButtersEP wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Can we please get a 3rd tier off difficulty or something? Keep the 3rd tier off the dailies I don't care.. But every dungeon minus these 3 are not even worth doing unless you are trying to get a specific drop.

Your dead right. It used to be you had a lot of challenging content that required mechanics to be done and at least mid level dps. Both trials and all the golds were like this. Sanctum and VDSA were harder but you could still have a few shaky players and get a complete. Now you have all the gold pledges at the point that they are solo-able or duo-able on the one hand. On the other you have VMOL which requires truly impressive dps as well as perfect mechanics execution and some even more impressive DK chaining work. Is it 3 guilds who have done this now? I'm not really up on the euro server but it is two here. That is some pretty elite stuff. You also have VMA which is very difficult as well mostly from a mechanics standpoint as the dps check is not as massive. Behind these very difficult challenges there is a yawning gulf in difficulty before any other content. Realistically, very bad players can complete virtually any gold pledge or old AA / HR /or even SO trial. VWGT and VICP were really the only mid tier difficulty similar to what so much of the old content was (I know your nerfing VCOA as well but really you can already wheelbarrow completely non functional players on this). Clearly these pledges are being moved to the realm all the other pledges. You will not need to have a grasp on proper build, rotation, or mechanics to complete these. Perhaps S.O. with the buff will prove to be a middle ground but if so it will be quite alone.

I will be frank, It was that middle tier of difficulty I most liked. You could do it with an ok group for completes, you could do it with a good group and a couple trainees and get a complete, or, you could run it with all elites and get leader-board times. The difficult content is far beyond that now. Completes are for elites only with the exception that the right builds on VMA can complete with enough practice by the merely good. It's not that I can't do it. I've done VMA and I think we will get VMOL before to long provided we don't get distracted, the loot is really not that big an incentive and the revamped SO has good loot, but, the bottom line is I don't see these things becoming that regular and activity as they are quite unforgiving. There doesn't seem to be much in the realm of challenging but not unforgiving content. Stuff where you need to have a decent rotation, keep up your buffs, and deal with a few mechanics. Perhaps it is not clear to the developers just how far gold pledges, AA, HR, MOL, VDSA, and MA are from VMOL and VMA. OK, maybe MOL non vet is not totally a cake walk but I think the point still stands. There really needs to be more middle ground and I would say it needs to give the rewards of the really hard stuff but at lower drop rates. I guess I am saying MOL is the right idea but we need more of that. Platinum pledges that are hard for 2 keys, revamped AA and HR. Or.... some new content perhaps.

Shadesofkin · May 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

I was just wondering...
All you people out there that say you would help a noob out to learn the mechanics of vWGT and vICP, what about a player that doesn't have a mic to communicate with or isn't allowed to talk on a mic, like me (don't ask me why)
People always dump the micless player.

I've been trying to complete speed runs of the vet dungeons with the base game to get akatosh-scales-gold by using the group finder; because I can't find any guilds that would help me otherwise. Just because I don't use a mic.

I can understand that it makes it difficult to communicate with, but what's one to do?

I play on ps4 so I have no means to text chat, which I think is still going to be useless during fight.

I just wish there were patient enough players to tolerate such people and help them out.

I don't need you to talk. I do need you to kill portals relatively quickly. Maybe take the initiative and grab a pinion once in a while if you see it open and nobody going for it.

Yup. Who cares if you can't talk. You can still listen right?

And kill portals....

I am very fond of repeating through Text and Voice the following to any players who don't know the fight: The portals and you, you're high school sweethearts, you went to prom, you met and fell in love and you've moved to paris. You don't look at the boss, you don't talk to the boss, the boss has nothing you want so long as you and the portals are together.

I don't need anyone to talk, just listen. Talking is for when I run with my friends and we all know what we're doing.

ycodryn · May 2016

I like how they made the dungeons. I don`t want to spend half day to a damn dungeon. Want something hard? Go trials.

Dubhliam · May 2016

ycodryn wrote: »

I like how they made the dungeons. I don`t want to spend half day to a damn dungeon. Want something hard? Go trials.

You obviously never did trials.
It's much harder to organize a 12 man dungeon than it is a 4 man dungeon.

Difficulty of content should not be locked on only 4 trials.
A new, Nightmare difficulty mode would for veteran dungeons would be of great help to open up the content to a wider variety of players.
In which case the nerfs to vWGT and vICP are justifiable.

KenaPKK · May 2016

I'm getting really tired of stuff getting nerfed in PvE. The PvE in this game, including these dungeons, is already way too easy. C'mon ZOS, stop catering to carebears.

ycodryn · May 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

ycodryn wrote: »

I like how they made the dungeons. I don`t want to spend half day to a damn dungeon. Want something hard? Go trials.

You obviously never did trials.

You obviously are a poor man that has sold his liver to buy this game. Is easy to asume things. Never try to asume something about someone that you don`t know.

ycodryn · May 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

ycodryn wrote: »

I like how they made the dungeons. I don`t want to spend half day to a damn dungeon. Want something hard? Go trials.

You obviously never did trials.

You obviously are a poor man that has sold his liver to buy this game. Is easy to asume things. Never try to asume something about someone that you don`t know.

ValkynSketha · May 2016

No no no no no, pls noooo

Mush55 · May 2016

Did vet icp again last night with me v14 magic nb , v 16 templar tank off healer, and a v12 sorc dps healer v2 magic dk

8 deaths 3 wipes due to the horrid synergy buttons on ps 4 , no scathing mage or any decent drops for any of us tbh was the most fun I had had in a while as we to work well together but we got it done.

Dungeons dont need a nerf the drops need a buff....

cpuScientist · May 2016

ycodryn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ycodryn wrote: »

I like how they made the dungeons. I don`t want to spend half day to a damn dungeon. Want something hard? Go trials.

You obviously never did trials.

You obviously are a poor man that has sold his liver to buy this game. Is easy to asume things. Never try to asume something about someone that you don`t know.

Confirmed never done trials

Dubhliam · May 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

ycodryn wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ycodryn wrote: »

I like how they made the dungeons. I don`t want to spend half day to a damn dungeon. Want something hard? Go trials.

You obviously never did trials.

You obviously are a poor man that has sold his liver to buy this game. Is easy to asume things. Never try to asume something about someone that you don`t know.

Confirmed never done trials

Which only confirms his theory that it IS easy to assume things

Ep1kMalware · May 2016

On one hand I'm excited about trying to solo wgt now. On the other, I just ran a 3 man group (all dps) through vicp last night. It was the first time for the other two. Probably 4 deaths in total.

They both told me it felt easier than city of ash.

PS. We did 2 runs, 4 man after that. on both of those runs someone got a speed run. We had 1 whipe on the first boss (no tank), and that was our only issue. Once it was explained that adds release in perportion to his health and we needed to kill a few off first we got right through it. Hell, someone even got a helmet on the second run.

We had fun, I love watching people get those first time clears. The dungeon already isnt as hard as it hsed to be, but it us FUN.

cpuScientist · May 2016

I finnaly ran ICP night. Funnest dungeon ever. Really.great work on that ZOS. A masterpiece, and now your killing hour own masterpiece. Just make 1 more difficulty make it drop platinum keys, which guarantee a gold piece, and then crank that difficulty SKY HIGH

cpuScientist · May 2016

Ahhhhh I just had so.much fun in this game yesterday. Did ICP the first time, was fun somewhat challenging loved the mechanics. Atleast I got to experience it before they kill it and the others. GG ZOS you guys kill any and all joy time after time

paul_j · May 2016

I don't know if this has been said already but I don't think it matters whether those 3 dungeons get nerfed because the people who farm it know it's not much of a challenge already. They were hard when they were initially released once upon a time. Sadly I think all this complaining is correlated to lack of new vet dungeons/ 4man content. Maybe even bumping vdsa to v16 could've occupied our time before Zos release new content?

code65536 · May 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

On one hand I'm excited about trying to solo wgt now.

Have you actually tested vWGT on the PTS? If you had, like I did, then you'd never make such a ridiculous statement.

This end-of-the-world nerf that people are crying about is nothing more than a minor tweak. In many places, you'd barely even notice a difference.

And with the nerf to sorc shields and Surge and the removal of double-dipping for Strife/Sweeps, parts of vWGT are now harder on the PTS than on Live for the three solo-friendly classes. Whereas my Funnel used to heal me through the Inhibitor's Heat Stroke if I'm holding aggro for longer than I should without healer support (which is what you'll have to deal with if you try to solo or 2-man it), now the Heat Stroke on the PTS will overpower me.

People should actually go onto the PTS and try it out before wasting a keystrokes whining about how ZOS is killing the endgame when it's more like a papercut.

Destruent · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

On one hand I'm excited about trying to solo wgt now.

Have you actually tested vWGT on the PTS? If you had, like I did, then you'd never make such a ridiculous statement.

The so-called "nerf" that people are crying about is nothing more than a minor tweak. In many places, you'd barely even notice a difference.

And with the nerf to sorc shields and Surge and the removal of double-dipping for Strife/Sweeps, parts of vWGT are now harder on the PTS than on Live for the three solo-friendly classes. Whereas my Funnel used to heal me through the Inhibitor's Heat Stroke if I'm holding aggro for longer than I should without healer support (which is what you'll have to deal with if you try to solo or 2-man it), now the Heat Stroke on the PTS will overpower me.

People should actually go onto the PTS and try it out before wasting a keystrokes whining about how ZOS is killing the endgame when it's more like a papercut.

I think they fixed this bug, isn't it? Sweeps now scales with thaumaturge and ele-expert again

code65536 · May 2016

Destruent wrote: »

I think they fixed this bug, isn't it?

You're referring to the CP double-dip for Sweeps damage. I'm referring to the healing double-dipping on crits. I.e., a Strife/Sweeps heal that was sourced from a crit hit and that then crits. Which, for someone running 65% crit, would happen over 40% of the time. The nerf in the amount of self-healing that magplars, magblades, and magsorcs get is pretty substantial.

Destruent · May 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I think they fixed this bug, isn't it?

You're referring to the CP double-dip for Sweeps damage. I'm referring to the healing double-dipping on crits. I.e., a Strife/Sweeps heal that was sourced from a crit hit and that then crits. Which, for someone running 65% crit, would happen over 40% of the time. The nerf in the amount of self-healing that magplars, magblades, and magsorcs get is pretty substantial.

Sweep heals did never crit afaik. so they didn't change anything there. They even increased templar-healing by 20% (Ritual of Retribution)

code65536 · May 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Sweep heals did never crit afaik. so they didn't change anything there. They even increased templar-healing by 20% (Ritual of Retribution)

They did specifically call out Sweeps in the patch notes:

Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier. The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance.

I haven't really paid close attention to my Templar's Sweeps heals (in large part because he's a new character that I ground up during Cake Week), but for my magblade main, there is a noticeable decrease in the self-healing that I get from Funnel. And in the testing that I've done on the PTS, the new Surge for sorcs is definitely a heavy nerf, but that's a whole other can of worms...

Destruent · May 2016

Strife heals did crit, templars sweeps heals couldn't crit at all. They just scaled with burning light damage if it proccs ^^