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Why NB's are OP in 1 picture
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Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »It's ridiculous that a max level build can heal through and take a full on DPS assault from two, three, 4+ max level enemy players and literally just sit there and spam heals without pretty much any care at all.
This only happens when there is an extreme mismatch between players. I promise you, no one is gonna be able to simply face tank 2+ players of equal skill. The problem here isn't that healing is too much, it's that you're chasing people you aren't qualified to successfully fight.
It's pretty hilarious that these forum blades are accusing major mending and healing of being unbalanced. You nerf healing/defenses and who stands to benefit the most? Oh right, the class with the best offensive capabilities across the board. What a coincidence that you lot would be opposed to healing and defenses.
I personally don't have an issue with NBs. I think they are the most complete class and zose would do well to make the other 3 as well rounded as NB is currently. The damage NBs do is very powerful, but that's what the class is about so I'll deal with it. Likewise, Templars and DKs are about tankiness and sustain. Deal with it.
You do realize top PvPers have had what is called "never ending fights" right? And in my opinion no amount of healing should outdo getting smashed in the face repeatedly with a mace. Especially when its multiple people smashing your face in.Edited by Publius_Scipio on May 11, 2016 5:53PM0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Reaper's Mark..... the scourge of Cyrodiil......
Gah.
The sad part is that she's popular, so some people are actually going to buy this crap. Gratz Jules for inventing something new to complain about. 25 gold stars.
This is the state of class discussion in ESO. Part of the reason is the players who are elevated to have a voice are usually entertainers or popular players who associate with entertainers.
What is this, the high school lunch table? What are you even talking about?Ehh....
I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.
As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.
That said, I am finally rolling a DK.
Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.
In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-
No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.
Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack
The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.
This is not a logical argument.
Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).
What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?
And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.
Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.
And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.
And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.
But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.
Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?
Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.
As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.
I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.
Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.
The purpose was not to say hey, everyone run reapers mark in Cyrodiil its super good and totally viable.
The purpose was to crack this "nb's have no burst heals" theory wide open.
And if we're being real with ourselves, though reapers mark is never used, healing ward, vigor/rally are. And they are more than viable.
But if you really wanna break it down-
Burst heal.
Burst = strong
Heal = restoring health
Sorry nbs, but reapers mark fills that quota when it heals you for 60% of your max health after a kill. You can call it unconventional, you can say it's not viable in Cyrodiil. Sure, I'll give you that, it's probably not. But please do not say it doesn't exist, because it does. It's really not even that much of a stretch to be honest. Through the history of this game, wackier things have been tried. And the opposite morph of Piercing Mark is also a heal on kill, just for less.
Steve, you've played a lot of time on NB and a very little amount of time on other classes. How can you possibly say a class isn't OP when you haven't even dabbled with the others to have anything to compare it to? Play the others and come back to me after when you see what the rest of the classes play like. Cause for now, you sound like a biased nightblade trying to defend his class just like all the others.
Crack "the no burst heal theory" wide open? By using Reapers Mark. Are you insane? It exists in the same way a theoretical foot on top on your head exists: no one wants it and it doesn't do anything useful. But sure. We have a burst heal. Great detective work Jules.
Flat out, you arguing that Reapers Mark is a burst heal is something I never expected from you, you're smarter than that.
As for me defending Nightblade because I'm biased, I'm not the one grasping at straws and pedantically arguing the definition of "burst heal" to try to make my point. And no, I haven't played Sorc and Templar but I play with and against the better ones left in this game, I have a decent idea of where they're at.
Also I'm going DK as my next main so uh, not particularly invested in whatever nerfs you're fishing for. But yeah. I dislike wrong arguments about a class I've played at a competitive level since launch. Get back to me when you actually understand how and why a Nightblade functions, I don't need to play sorc to know how a Nightblade works. If you want to understand it better, play it more. If a Nightblade came into my guild and started telling me this stuff I'd have a sit down and realign his perspective on how to play one.
Id start by taking Reapers Mark off his bar and telling him to befriend a good healing Templar
Sure, you don't need to play sorc, templar or dk to know how a NB works.
But you do need to play them in order to understand how a NB compares to them.
And I'll leave the reapers mark discussion alone after this but honestly, who's being more ridiculous, the person who says their class has no burst heals and meanwhile has a skill that debuffs their target and heals them for 60% of their max health when they die, or the person who points that out. It's not grasping at straws. It's simply looking at your skills and recognizing that they have potential. And NB's have a lot of it.
You're being more ridiculous. You. It was a really silly thing to bring up. I suspect you know better than to actually use it but it was a convenient (if incorrect) counter to my self heal argument. But again, it's a ridiculous thing to even being up. The entire point of a burst heal is that you can get it in a clutch situation to to keep you in the fight. Reapers Mark simply isn't viable. If I'm fighting you and I need a self heal BAD, the solution isn't to to kill you and get 60% max health back, because if I could just KILL you than i don't need the bloody clutch self heal!
Imagine if Dragonknights could only get health back by killing someone? Do I need to bring up the pages you wrote on Green Dragons Blood being useless? Well, it's a billion times better than Reapers Mark. Straight up. Trade me now. Broken DK skill better than my "Nightblade burst heal". This isn't a topic of conversation we agree to disagree on: you're simply wrong. Straight up. It's a bad hill to die on.
And again, I'm pretty solid on how the classes work. I'm not going to tell Teargrants how to play but you better believe I understand what a good sorc is capable of. I'm not a Templar but I study the ones I play against and with, I know what they can do when played right (you should too, you play with Kodi). I actually have a DK (2 ranked ones!). That is to say, I can't tell the experts other class how to play but I can note when they are playing well. I've seen these classes played to potential and they're every bit as good as well played Nightblades.
You're trying to tell me how to play my class. I'm open to arguments on Nightblades being OP. Some of those new DB buffs for example. But you came at this wrong. You started with a plurality of buffs which is basically just saying that Nightblades are too versatile, and than moved on to ignoring my input on what makes Nightblade silly strong, and finished by basically telling me I don't know my class and should learn to burst heal myself with reapers Mark. You want to talk being creative with Nightblade abilities, you should have tried playing one without self heals against pre-nerf DKs. That will teach you to dig deep into the creativity bag quickly.
I don't need to play with Kodi to know what templars are capable of or how they compare to NB's. I play Templar. I have 3 of them. I also have 1 sorc, 2 DK and 2 NB, all v16, maxed, geared, and all above assault/support 10. I have a very good understanding of how each class operates both in group and small scale PVP and how they all compare to one another. I don't need to observe other people doing this or ask them their opinions on the classes, because I have experienced it myself, which is simply not the same level of understanding that you get from observing others.
To all the NB claiming their class isnt OP, I suggest you try playing a stam sorc where you have 0 stam ultimate, 0 ST ability, 0 class CC, 0 major fracture, 0 class gap closer, 0 empower, and 0 class execute. The imbalance between stam nb and stam sorc is by far one of the most disgusting imbalances in the game at this time.
And I never tried to tell you how to play your class steve. You're getting all hung up on Reaper's Mark as if I said it was OP and the golden ticket to NB heals. I simply pointed out the truth, that it is a burst heal. One that you overlooked.
I did not overlook it. I looked at it plenty and determined it was ***. Like all the other Nightblades with half a brain did. The only reason I'm hung up on it is because you won't back down from it. If I can't get you to back off one tiny position you took that is clearly, objectively and demonstratively wrong than what hope do I have of convincing you of anything else?
As for the rest, I feel this is a good example of WHY experience with a class counts for something. I've played NB since day one, every spec imaginable. Hell I played a Stam NB back before peiope knew what that was. You tell me I overlooked Reapers Mark, and I tell you that I've been there, done that, tried it, it's not viable. That you even being it up shows how little you've really experimented with Nightblade. it's not surprising, you rolled Nightblade and immediately went to the FoTM specs, magica bomb Nightblade and Stam roll around Blade. Which I don't blame you for, play what works. But I'm absolutely going to call you out for incorrectly trying to tell me how to play based on such a shallow play sample.
Stam sorcs are also not a viable argument. Them being weak does not mean every other class must be just as weak. I'd argue a good magica sorc > Stam or magica Nightblade. Almost everything is better than a Stam sorc, it has nothing to do with Nightblades.
Why are you literally still talking about reapers mark? I don't care. I never said it was viable, I never said I ran it in Cyrodiil or even thought about running it in Cyrodiil. All of these things you're literally just making up. When did I tell you how to play your class? lol. You keep saying that.
I said Reaper's Mark is a burst heal. That's literally it. Which it is.
Lol, just so off course from the subject at hand. Let it go. We can disagree about whether or not it's a burst heal, who gives af.Edited by Jules on May 11, 2016 5:53PM2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Perhaps comparing stamina nightblade to the weakest build in the game at the moment is adequate, as they're both almost on the same level.
I can't even believe I just read this.2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I knew this was the direction of the thread when jules claimed they were facts.
Facts out of any context or bearing on reality... but hey they are facts!!
Unfortunately, much as I suspected there would be no possible debate on it.
I can give you a couple tidbits of advice though.... none of which you will consider or even contemplate, but I'm actually a pretty decent guy so I'll put them out there for posterity.
1-The byline is the story. If you want something to be considered unbiased you can't lead it with NIGHTBLADES ARE OP. You need to provide evidence without commentary and let the reader decide.
2-Claiming "the facts" are the only thing that matter because they are facts is circular logic. "Fact" is that facts are the most misleading thing because they are rarely used in a context that means anything. That doesn't mean they are wrong, it just means you can use statistics and facts to mislead. It's actually quite difficult to put any facts into a context where they mean something, it's quite easy to put them in to mislead and obfuscate things.
3-Debates that are "already decided" aren't debates. They are one sided lectures with a goal. That goal is rarely what is true.
6 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Reaper's Mark..... the scourge of Cyrodiil......
Gah.
The sad part is that she's popular, so some people are actually going to buy this crap. Gratz Jules for inventing something new to complain about. 25 gold stars.
This is the state of class discussion in ESO. Part of the reason is the players who are elevated to have a voice are usually entertainers or popular players who associate with entertainers.
What is this, the high school lunch table? What are you even talking about?Ehh....
I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.
As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.
That said, I am finally rolling a DK.
Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.
In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-
No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.
Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack
The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.
This is not a logical argument.
Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).
What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?
And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.
Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.
And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.
And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.
But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.
Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?
Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.
As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.
I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.
Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.
The purpose was not to say hey, everyone run reapers mark in Cyrodiil its super good and totally viable.
The purpose was to crack this "nb's have no burst heals" theory wide open.
And if we're being real with ourselves, though reapers mark is never used, healing ward, vigor/rally are. And they are more than viable.
But if you really wanna break it down-
Burst heal.
Burst = strong
Heal = restoring health
Sorry nbs, but reapers mark fills that quota when it heals you for 60% of your max health after a kill. You can call it unconventional, you can say it's not viable in Cyrodiil. Sure, I'll give you that, it's probably not. But please do not say it doesn't exist, because it does. It's really not even that much of a stretch to be honest. Through the history of this game, wackier things have been tried. And the opposite morph of Piercing Mark is also a heal on kill, just for less.
Steve, you've played a lot of time on NB and a very little amount of time on other classes. How can you possibly say a class isn't OP when you haven't even dabbled with the others to have anything to compare it to? Play the others and come back to me after when you see what the rest of the classes play like. Cause for now, you sound like a biased nightblade trying to defend his class just like all the others.
Crack "the no burst heal theory" wide open? By using Reapers Mark. Are you insane? It exists in the same way a theoretical foot on top on your head exists: no one wants it and it doesn't do anything useful. But sure. We have a burst heal. Great detective work Jules.
Flat out, you arguing that Reapers Mark is a burst heal is something I never expected from you, you're smarter than that.
As for me defending Nightblade because I'm biased, I'm not the one grasping at straws and pedantically arguing the definition of "burst heal" to try to make my point. And no, I haven't played Sorc and Templar but I play with and against the better ones left in this game, I have a decent idea of where they're at.
Also I'm going DK as my next main so uh, not particularly invested in whatever nerfs you're fishing for. But yeah. I dislike wrong arguments about a class I've played at a competitive level since launch. Get back to me when you actually understand how and why a Nightblade functions, I don't need to play sorc to know how a Nightblade works. If you want to understand it better, play it more. If a Nightblade came into my guild and started telling me this stuff I'd have a sit down and realign his perspective on how to play one.
Id start by taking Reapers Mark off his bar and telling him to befriend a good healing Templar
Sure, you don't need to play sorc, templar or dk to know how a NB works.
But you do need to play them in order to understand how a NB compares to them.
And I'll leave the reapers mark discussion alone after this but honestly, who's being more ridiculous, the person who says their class has no burst heals and meanwhile has a skill that debuffs their target and heals them for 60% of their max health when they die, or the person who points that out. It's not grasping at straws. It's simply looking at your skills and recognizing that they have potential. And NB's have a lot of it.
You're being more ridiculous. You. It was a really silly thing to bring up. I suspect you know better than to actually use it but it was a convenient (if incorrect) counter to my self heal argument. But again, it's a ridiculous thing to even being up. The entire point of a burst heal is that you can get it in a clutch situation to to keep you in the fight. Reapers Mark simply isn't viable. If I'm fighting you and I need a self heal BAD, the solution isn't to to kill you and get 60% max health back, because if I could just KILL you than i don't need the bloody clutch self heal!
Imagine if Dragonknights could only get health back by killing someone? Do I need to bring up the pages you wrote on Green Dragons Blood being useless? Well, it's a billion times better than Reapers Mark. Straight up. Trade me now. Broken DK skill better than my "Nightblade burst heal". This isn't a topic of conversation we agree to disagree on: you're simply wrong. Straight up. It's a bad hill to die on.
And again, I'm pretty solid on how the classes work. I'm not going to tell Teargrants how to play but you better believe I understand what a good sorc is capable of. I'm not a Templar but I study the ones I play against and with, I know what they can do when played right (you should too, you play with Kodi). I actually have a DK (2 ranked ones!). That is to say, I can't tell the experts other class how to play but I can note when they are playing well. I've seen these classes played to potential and they're every bit as good as well played Nightblades.
You're trying to tell me how to play my class. I'm open to arguments on Nightblades being OP. Some of those new DB buffs for example. But you came at this wrong. You started with a plurality of buffs which is basically just saying that Nightblades are too versatile, and than moved on to ignoring my input on what makes Nightblade silly strong, and finished by basically telling me I don't know my class and should learn to burst heal myself with reapers Mark. You want to talk being creative with Nightblade abilities, you should have tried playing one without self heals against pre-nerf DKs. That will teach you to dig deep into the creativity bag quickly.
I don't need to play with Kodi to know what templars are capable of or how they compare to NB's. I play Templar. I have 3 of them. I also have 1 sorc, 2 DK and 2 NB, all v16, maxed, geared, and all above assault/support 10. I have a very good understanding of how each class operates both in group and small scale PVP and how they all compare to one another. I don't need to observe other people doing this or ask them their opinions on the classes, because I have experienced it myself, which is simply not the same level of understanding that you get from observing others.
To all the NB claiming their class isnt OP, I suggest you try playing a stam sorc where you have 0 stam ultimate, 0 ST ability, 0 class CC, 0 major fracture, 0 class gap closer, 0 empower, and 0 class execute. The imbalance between stam nb and stam sorc is by far one of the most disgusting imbalances in the game at this time.
And I never tried to tell you how to play your class steve. You're getting all hung up on Reaper's Mark as if I said it was OP and the golden ticket to NB heals. I simply pointed out the truth, that it is a burst heal. One that you overlooked.
I did not overlook it. I looked at it plenty and determined it was ***. Like all the other Nightblades with half a brain did. The only reason I'm hung up on it is because you won't back down from it. If I can't get you to back off one tiny position you took that is clearly, objectively and demonstratively wrong than what hope do I have of convincing you of anything else?
As for the rest, I feel this is a good example of WHY experience with a class counts for something. I've played NB since day one, every spec imaginable. Hell I played a Stam NB back before peiope knew what that was. You tell me I overlooked Reapers Mark, and I tell you that I've been there, done that, tried it, it's not viable. That you even being it up shows how little you've really experimented with Nightblade. it's not surprising, you rolled Nightblade and immediately went to the FoTM specs, magica bomb Nightblade and Stam roll around Blade. Which I don't blame you for, play what works. But I'm absolutely going to call you out for incorrectly trying to tell me how to play based on such a shallow play sample.
Stam sorcs are also not a viable argument. Them being weak does not mean every other class must be just as weak. I'd argue a good magica sorc > Stam or magica Nightblade. Almost everything is better than a Stam sorc, it has nothing to do with Nightblades.
Why are you literally still talking about reapers mark? I don't care. I never said it was viable, I never said I ran it in Cyrodiil or even thought about running it in Cyrodiil. All of these things you're literally just making up. When did I tell you how to play your class? lol. You keep saying that.
I said Reaper's Mark is a burst heal. That's literally it. Which it is.
Lol, just so off course from the subject at hand. Let it go. We can disagree about whether or not it's a burst heal, who gives af.
If you dont think its viable than why bring it up? What relevance does a non-viable skill have to anything? If ZoS announced they were adding a non-viable mobility skill to DKs would you be excited?
I didn't bring it up, you did, and you doubled and tripled down on it being a burst heal. You specifically did this in relation to me saying Nightblade strengths were offset because they lacked burst heals so it is perfectly on topic.
Edit: And yeah, you telling me I overlooked my class burst heal is telling me how to play.Edited by Satiar on May 11, 2016 6:06PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost7 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ehh....
I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.
As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.
That said, I am finally rolling a DK.
Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.
In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-
No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.
Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack
The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.
This is not a logical argument.
Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).
What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?
And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.
Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.
And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.
And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.
But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.
Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?
Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.
As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.
I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.
Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.
The purpose was not to say hey, everyone run reapers mark in Cyrodiil its super good and totally viable.
The purpose was to crack this "nb's have no burst heals" theory wide open.
And if we're being real with ourselves, though reapers mark is never used, healing ward, vigor/rally are. And they are more than viable.
But if you really wanna break it down-
Burst heal.
Burst = strong
Heal = restoring health
Sorry nbs, but reapers mark fills that quota when it heals you for 60% of your max health after a kill. You can call it unconventional, you can say it's not viable in Cyrodiil. Sure, I'll give you that, it's probably not. But please do not say it doesn't exist, because it does. It's really not even that much of a stretch to be honest. Through the history of this game, wackier things have been tried. And the opposite morph of Piercing Mark is also a heal on kill, just for less.
Steve, you've played a lot of time on NB and a very little amount of time on other classes. How can you possibly say a class isn't OP when you haven't even dabbled with the others to have anything to compare it to? Play the others and come back to me after when you see what the rest of the classes play like. Cause for now, you sound like a biased nightblade trying to defend his class just like all the others.
Crack "the no burst heal theory" wide open? By using Reapers Mark. Are you insane? It exists in the same way a theoretical foot on top on your head exists: no one wants it and it doesn't do anything useful. But sure. We have a burst heal. Great detective work Jules.
Flat out, you arguing that Reapers Mark is a burst heal is something I never expected from you, you're smarter than that.
As for me defending Nightblade because I'm biased, I'm not the one grasping at straws and pedantically arguing the definition of "burst heal" to try to make my point. And no, I haven't played Sorc and Templar but I play with and against the better ones left in this game, I have a decent idea of where they're at.
Also I'm going DK as my next main so uh, not particularly invested in whatever nerfs you're fishing for. But yeah. I dislike wrong arguments about a class I've played at a competitive level since launch. Get back to me when you actually understand how and why a Nightblade functions, I don't need to play sorc to know how a Nightblade works. If you want to understand it better, play it more. If a Nightblade came into my guild and started telling me this stuff I'd have a sit down and realign his perspective on how to play one.
Id start by taking Reapers Mark off his bar and telling him to befriend a good healing Templar
Sure, you don't need to play sorc, templar or dk to know how a NB works.
But you do need to play them in order to understand how a NB compares to them.
And I'll leave the reapers mark discussion alone after this but honestly, who's being more ridiculous, the person who says their class has no burst heals and meanwhile has a skill that debuffs their target and heals them for 60% of their max health when they die, or the person who points that out. It's not grasping at straws. It's simply looking at your skills and recognizing that they have potential. And NB's have a lot of it.
You're being more ridiculous. You. It was a really silly thing to bring up. I suspect you know better than to actually use it but it was a convenient (if incorrect) counter to my self heal argument. But again, it's a ridiculous thing to even being up. The entire point of a burst heal is that you can get it in a clutch situation to to keep you in the fight. Reapers Mark simply isn't viable. If I'm fighting you and I need a self heal BAD, the solution isn't to to kill you and get 60% max health back, because if I could just KILL you than i don't need the bloody clutch self heal!
Imagine if Dragonknights could only get health back by killing someone? Do I need to bring up the pages you wrote on Green Dragons Blood being useless? Well, it's a billion times better than Reapers Mark. Straight up. Trade me now. Broken DK skill better than my "Nightblade burst heal". This isn't a topic of conversation we agree to disagree on: you're simply wrong. Straight up. It's a bad hill to die on.
And again, I'm pretty solid on how the classes work. I'm not going to tell Teargrants how to play but you better believe I understand what a good sorc is capable of. I'm not a Templar but I study the ones I play against and with, I know what they can do when played right (you should too, you play with Kodi). I actually have a DK (2 ranked ones!). That is to say, I can't tell the experts other class how to play but I can note when they are playing well. I've seen these classes played to potential and they're every bit as good as well played Nightblades.
You're trying to tell me how to play my class. I'm open to arguments on Nightblades being OP. Some of those new DB buffs for example. But you came at this wrong. You started with a plurality of buffs which is basically just saying that Nightblades are too versatile, and than moved on to ignoring my input on what makes Nightblade silly strong, and finished by basically telling me I don't know my class and should learn to burst heal myself with reapers Mark. You want to talk being creative with Nightblade abilities, you should have tried playing one without self heals against pre-nerf DKs. That will teach you to dig deep into the creativity bag quickly.
I don't need to play with Kodi to know what templars are capable of or how they compare to NB's. I play Templar. I have 3 of them. I also have 1 sorc, 2 DK and 2 NB, all v16, maxed, geared, and all above assault/support 10. I have a very good understanding of how each class operates both in group and small scale PVP and how they all compare to one another. I don't need to observe other people doing this or ask them their opinions on the classes, because I have experienced it myself, which is simply not the same level of understanding that you get from observing others.
To all the NB claiming their class isnt OP, I suggest you try playing a stam sorc where you have 0 stam ultimate, 0 ST ability, 0 class CC, 0 major fracture, 0 class gap closer, 0 empower, and 0 class execute. The imbalance between stam nb and stam sorc is by far one of the most disgusting imbalances in the game at this time.
And I never tried to tell you how to play your class steve. You're getting all hung up on Reaper's Mark as if I said it was OP and the golden ticket to NB heals. I simply pointed out the truth, that it is a burst heal. One that you overlooked.
Who is the "one" sycophant running around here clicking like on ALL your posts instantly?2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »I wonder what the leaderboards look like.
According to the logic to this thread they should be all nightblades atop them. I mean they have the best buffs, so they are "the best" right?
Reality doesn't seem to match the hype it seems.
Metrics count.. conjecture doesn't.
Maelstrom arena from 1 to 98 are ALL dks. Weekly leaderboard, all dks.
PVP haderus, they MUST all be nightblades based on the irrefutable evidence presented... but lo and behold it's not like that at all. P.S. it never really is.
So other than possibly available buffs, what do nightblades lead in that can be measured? My guess is nerf nightblade threads.
you forget one thing. it only shows your class. how do i know this? weekly atm there is 37 templar at pc eu.
did you know? sorcs and nbs:s both nearly at 100 unless they are already above, last time i checked was 2 day ago.
Um what?
Neither thing I listed show only my class at all.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Well, that's just acute observations from the EU dueling scene where I spend most of my time in PvP.
Here's the hierarchy:
Stam DKs
Magicka Sorcs
Magicka Templars
Magicka DKs
Magicka NBs
Stamina Templars
Stamina Nightblades
Stamina Sorcerers
Some are quite close & could easily swap places, but the bottom 2 are clear.Edited by DDuke on May 11, 2016 6:01PM8 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?4 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
Cloak no longer purges or gives any protection other than invisibility and even that breaks too often to be much use.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well, that's just acute observations from the EU dueling scene where I spend most of my time in PvP.
Here's the hierarchy:
Stam DKs
Magicka Sorcs
Magicka Templars
Magicka DKs
Magicka NBs
Stamina Templars
Stamina Nightblades
Stamina Sorcerers
Some are quite close & could easily swap places, but the bottom 2 are clear.
Thank you. In NA, no one likes to admit this. Especially those who play the most effective class/resource combos. They run around in Templar only/based groups shouting "nerf NBs!"Edited by zyk on May 11, 2016 6:10PM4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
You know that other classes have the very same buffs with 20-30 second duration? Even stam sorcs will have it up 24/7 by using a skill in their main DPS rotation (Hurricane).
And you seem to be blending armor mitigation & squishiness into some combined being - there's a lot more to it.
How much of the incoming damage you outheal is part of not being squishy, and Nightblades do this very, very poorly (worse so than any of the other classes, including even stam sorc).
Also, no one slots NB Major Evasion - Shuffle is much, much better even for light/heavy armor users as it removes snares & immobilizes.Edited by DDuke on May 11, 2016 6:11PM4 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Well, that's just acute observations from the EU dueling scene where I spend most of my time in PvP.
Here's the hierarchy:
Stam DKs
Magicka Sorcs
Magicka Templars
Magicka DKs
Magicka NBs
Stamina Templars
Stamina Nightblades
Stamina Sorcerers
Some are quite close & could easily swap places, but the bottom 2 are clear.
Thank you. In NA, no one likes to admit this. Especially those who play the most effective class/resource combos. They run around in Templar only/based groups shouting "nerf NBs!"
I'd say this is primarily because they synergize well. Nightblades are awesome, but while you can reach peak Nightblade and arguably DK you can't really do the same with Templars and Sorcs. They get better and stronger the more you have.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
lol GL bro, you're about to get zerged.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Competetive level like this?But yeah. I dislike wrong arguments about a class I've played at a competitive level since launch. Get back to me when you actually understand how and why a Nightblade functions, I don't need to play sorc to know how a Nightblade works. If you want to understand it better, play it more. If a Nightblade came into my guild and started telling me this stuff I'd have a sit down and realign his perspective on how to play one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkUEepRgkd8
The flip side of the same coin: https://youtu.be/iWEjA18SrFk?t=20m25s
NBs 
To all the NB claiming their class isnt OP, I suggest you try playing a stam sorc where you have 0 stam ultimate, 0 ST ability, 0 class CC, 0 major fracture, 0 class gap closer, 0 empower, and 0 class execute. The imbalance between stam nb and stam sorc is by far one of the most disgusting imbalances in the game at this time.
And I never tried to tell you how to play your class steve. You're getting all hung up on Reaper's Mark as if I said it was OP and the golden ticket to NB heals. I simply pointed out the truth, that it is a burst heal. One that you overlooked.
I've played one (probably my 3rd most played character), and on Live I must say - it's not pretty. Perhaps comparing stamina nightblade to the weakest build in the game at the moment is adequate, as they're both almost on the same level.
In open world stamblades are a lot better in my opinion. But if we look at duels you are right.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
lol GL bro, you're about to get zerged.
He might have a point if shuffle wasn't a thing. So what we actually have is a nice resist buff, but this is hardly a game changer. The lack of shields, heal modifiers and strong self heals leave us much less tanky than Sorcs, DKs and Templers.
Not everyone disagrees with you because youre right and they can't stand it. Sometimes when everyone disagrees with you, you might need to look inward and reflect upon the strength of your position.
Like our "Nightblade burst heal", Nightblades being as tanky as other classes is not the hill you want to die on.
Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost5 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
Never said they were squishy. All I am saying is they are in my opinion definitely not "OP" and any NB I have ever come across is no where in the same league of survivability as a templar like Mojican is.
Generally speaking, a good templar will pop those big heals and then unload a barrage of DPS with spears and knock-backs,etc.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Thank you. In NA, no one likes to admit this. Especially those who play the most effective class/resource combos. They run around in Templar only/based groups shouting "nerf NBs!"
I'd say this is primarily because they synergize well. Nightblades are awesome, but while you can reach peak Nightblade and arguably DK you can't really do the same with Templars and Sorcs. They get better and stronger the more you have.
These factors need to be considered when discussing class balance. Unfortunately, they rarely are. I think it's fair for a class to be strong in group play, but weak solo. That's balance.
I am also troubled that no one touches on the class name imbalance. The Dragon Knight has two distinct words in its name and the most characters. This is Obviously OP.
I know some will argue that Nightblade is composed of two words, but I counter that without a space, there is no clear distinction.
The Templar is obviously the weakest in this regard. Fact. Therefore, buff the Templar class.1 -
Suru✭✭✭✭
I wonder, how exactly do you plan on using this in a 1v1 fight?
Or when you're getting zerged down in 1vX, or when you're desperately trying to cloak and/or roll dodge just to survive the DoTs on you...
C'mon, surely you know better than to try make argument like that.
Psst, the other morph is better for PvP btw.
I know piercing mark is better for pvp.
I also know this isn't ideal for a NB and rally/vigor are obviously more realistic.
However, don't tell me your class doesn't have ANY burst heal when I can take a screenshot of a skill that heals you for 60% of your max health.
Its not on demand jules. Its a joke heal. Yea 60% but 60% self heal I won't get when 10% because the player isnt dead.
Its not that isn't ideal, its what the skill is used for, revealing players and to debuff them.
Crit surge on the other hand is always up and active when you use your rotation on a player where you are always critting and always healing. Please don't clump up two skills which work completely different with their healing practicality and functionality. People who say they use reapers for the heal is almost nonexistent vs People who say they use crit surge for a heal, which would possibly be a majority. At least more than reapers..
Suru3 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
lol GL bro, you're about to get zerged.
Oh I know, their class has so much going for it but they just don't seem to grasp just how much. Like oh, I don't know, refreshing shadows? A passive as strong as a dk slotting dragon skills on 3 slots on both bars, and 50% stronger than the sorcerer's dedicated magicka regen passive, and an additional 15% stamina regen. Nightblades were broken on release, but that was a long time ago and the class now stands well above the rest in many areas, guess we'll just have to see if anything comes of this for the other classes.2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
lol GL bro, you're about to get zerged.
Sometimes when everyone disagrees with you, they might be NB's
FIFY.1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
To all the NB claiming their class isnt OP, I suggest you try playing a stam sorc where you have 0 stam ultimate, 0 ST ability, 0 class CC, 0 major fracture, 0 class gap closer, 0 empower, and 0 class execute. The imbalance between stam nb and stam sorc is by far one of the most disgusting imbalances in the game at this time.Ehh....
I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.
As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.
That said, I am finally rolling a DK.
Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.
In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-
No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.
Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack
The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.
This is not a logical argument.
Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).
What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?
And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.
Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.
And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.
And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.
But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.
Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?
Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.
As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.
I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.
Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.
The purpose was not to say hey, everyone run reapers mark in Cyrodiil its super good and totally viable.
The purpose was to crack this "nb's have no burst heals" theory wide open.
And if we're being real with ourselves, though reapers mark is never used, healing ward, vigor/rally are. And they are more than viable.
But if you really wanna break it down-
Burst heal.
Burst = strong
Heal = restoring health
Sorry nbs, but reapers mark fills that quota when it heals you for 60% of your max health after a kill. You can call it unconventional, you can say it's not viable in Cyrodiil. Sure, I'll give you that, it's probably not. But please do not say it doesn't exist, because it does. It's really not even that much of a stretch to be honest. Through the history of this game, wackier things have been tried. And the opposite morph of Piercing Mark is also a heal on kill, just for less.
Steve, you've played a lot of time on NB and a very little amount of time on other classes. How can you possibly say a class isn't OP when you haven't even dabbled with the others to have anything to compare it to? Play the others and come back to me after when you see what the rest of the classes play like. Cause for now, you sound like a biased nightblade trying to defend his class just like all the others.
Crack "the no burst heal theory" wide open? By using Reapers Mark. Are you insane? It exists in the same way a theoretical foot on top on your head exists: no one wants it and it doesn't do anything useful. But sure. We have a burst heal. Great detective work Jules.
Flat out, you arguing that Reapers Mark is a burst heal is something I never expected from you, you're smarter than that.
As for me defending Nightblade because I'm biased, I'm not the one grasping at straws and pedantically arguing the definition of "burst heal" to try to make my point. And no, I haven't played Sorc and Templar but I play with and against the better ones left in this game, I have a decent idea of where they're at.
Also I'm going DK as my next main so uh, not particularly invested in whatever nerfs you're fishing for. But yeah. I dislike wrong arguments about a class I've played at a competitive level since launch. Get back to me when you actually understand how and why a Nightblade functions, I don't need to play sorc to know how a Nightblade works. If you want to understand it better, play it more. If a Nightblade came into my guild and started telling me this stuff I'd have a sit down and realign his perspective on how to play one.
Id start by taking Reapers Mark off his bar and telling him to befriend a good healing Templar
Sure, you don't need to play sorc, templar or dk to know how a NB works.
But you do need to play them in order to understand how a NB compares to them.
And I'll leave the reapers mark discussion alone after this but honestly, who's being more ridiculous, the person who says their class has no burst heals and meanwhile has a skill that debuffs their target and heals them for 60% of their max health when they die, or the person who points that out. It's not grasping at straws. It's simply looking at your skills and recognizing that they have potential. And NB's have a lot of it.
You're being more ridiculous. You. It was a really silly thing to bring up. I suspect you know better than to actually use it but it was a convenient (if incorrect) counter to my self heal argument. But again, it's a ridiculous thing to even being up. The entire point of a burst heal is that you can get it in a clutch situation to to keep you in the fight. Reapers Mark simply isn't viable. If I'm fighting you and I need a self heal BAD, the solution isn't to to kill you and get 60% max health back, because if I could just KILL you than i don't need the bloody clutch self heal!
Imagine if Dragonknights could only get health back by killing someone? Do I need to bring up the pages you wrote on Green Dragons Blood being useless? Well, it's a billion times better than Reapers Mark. Straight up. Trade me now. Broken DK skill better than my "Nightblade burst heal". This isn't a topic of conversation we agree to disagree on: you're simply wrong. Straight up. It's a bad hill to die on.
And again, I'm pretty solid on how the classes work. I'm not going to tell Teargrants how to play but you better believe I understand what a good sorc is capable of. I'm not a Templar but I study the ones I play against and with, I know what they can do when played right (you should too, you play with Kodi). I actually have a DK (2 ranked ones!). That is to say, I can't tell the experts other class how to play but I can note when they are playing well. I've seen these classes played to potential and they're every bit as good as well played Nightblades.
You're trying to tell me how to play my class. I'm open to arguments on Nightblades being OP. Some of those new DB buffs for example. But you came at this wrong. You started with a plurality of buffs which is basically just saying that Nightblades are too versatile, and than moved on to ignoring my input on what makes Nightblade silly strong, and finished by basically telling me I don't know my class and should learn to burst heal myself with reapers Mark. You want to talk being creative with Nightblade abilities, you should have tried playing one without self heals against pre-nerf DKs. That will teach you to dig deep into the creativity bag quickly.
You can also say this to Dks. Or Manasorcs. Or Temps. They are all OP too with this argument.
None of the classes you listed has all of those. (Hint- NB does.)
And Dks and Temps have Major Mending instead
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Psychotius wrote: »Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.
Ok, I wasn't going to post in this thread, just content with seeing how people reacted to this (and I still stand by nb's being the best designed class in game and should be used as a standard for the other classes) but this statement is not true. NB's can use ANY shadow skill to gain the major resist buffs, have an in class 20% dodge chance, and that same skill can provide the minor resist buffs as well. That is literally the most 'resilient' you can get with both types of the resist buffs, if the attack even hits you. I mean seriously people, nightblades are just as 'squishy' as all the other classes, and they have more options to resist damage than the others, so can we stop this 'nightblades are squishy' line now?
lol GL bro, you're about to get zerged.
Sometimes when everyone disagrees with you, they might be NB's
FIFY.
Wow. The very vision of impartiality attacking me instead of my argument. Classy.
Clearly, your arguments are flawless and everyone who disagree is biased. This is not at all the sign of a skewed perspective
Edited by Satiar on May 11, 2016 6:48PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost9 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When you don't want to deal with your mistaken positions on Nightblade skills and you've just called everyone who disagrees with you biased, what do you do?
Apparently, ignore all these things and repost the OP.
Is this the part where I repost my first reply and we start over with less insistence that Nightblades all overlooked their class burst heal?Edited by Satiar on May 11, 2016 7:16PMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost10 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When you don't want to deal with your mistaken positions on Nightblade skills and you've just called everyone who disagrees with you biased, what do you do?
Apparently, ignore all these things and repost the OP.
Is this the part where I repost my first reply and we start over with less insistence that Nightblades all overlooked their class burst heal?
I just have no interest in fighting with you when you will not be convinced and you keep spouting off about how I'm trying to tell you how to play your class, when I did nothing of the sort. You for some reason are under the delusion that fear, siphoning attacks and cloak are the only things that make NB strong when this is obviously so far from the truth. Carry on your merry way, honestly. I'm tired of wasting my time and keystrokes pointing out all the obvious other advantages that NB has.
And it wasn't the reposting the OP. It was a list of passives so people can compare NB passives to their opposing classes passives.
And if a bunch of people who main NB's telling me NB isn't OP isn't biased, than idk what is.0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And if a bunch of people who main NB's telling me NB isn't OP isn't biased, than idk what is.
What's actually happening here is that your entire argument is conceptually flawed. You have not proven anything. I won't repeat what has already been eloquently explained by others. You have only rehashed a class bashing thread.
The only part of this thread that isn't a pointless rehash is the new dimension you introduced with Reaper's Mark. Never before have so few straws been grasped at with so much vigor. Bravo.Edited by zyk on May 11, 2016 7:38PM8 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When you don't want to deal with your mistaken positions on Nightblade skills and you've just called everyone who disagrees with you biased, what do you do?
Apparently, ignore all these things and repost the OP.
Is this the part where I repost my first reply and we start over with less insistence that Nightblades all overlooked their class burst heal?
I just have no interest in fighting with you when you will not be convinced and you keep spouting off about how I'm trying to tell you how to play your class, when I did nothing of the sort. You for some reason are under the delusion that fear, siphoning attacks and cloak are the only things that make NB strong when this is obviously so far from the truth. Carry on your merry way, honestly. I'm tired of wasting my time and keystrokes pointing out all the obvious other advantages that NB has.
And it wasn't the reposting the OP. It was a list of passives so people can compare NB passives to their opposing classes passives.
And if a bunch of people who main NB's telling me NB isn't OP isn't biased, than idk what is.
That last paragraph is awful, Jules. The logic train is awful:
A. Plays Nightblade
B. Disagrees with me
Conclusion: biased
Do you see how that is a horrible, bad faith argument? You're putting your position forward as an obvious truth and ascribing motive to those who disagree. That's bad faith, that's a big ego. It makes it seem you're interested in total agreement, not discussion.
And yes, I bring those skills up because they are the biggest part of what makes a Nightblade work. Every class has some awesome passives, but most come down to several core abilities that makes the class work. Half the skills you mention dont even go on most bars, and you CONSISTANTLY leave out how NBs lack the heal and tank options of other classes and try to cover this up by claiming (your own words here) that Nightblades overlooked their class burst heal.
Ultimately, you're either interested in discussion or not. You painting everyone who disagrees with you as biased points to the latter. If that's the case than just put it in the OP that you're right, all others are wrong, and avoid the messy bits where you pretend to be interested in discussing stuff
Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost7 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reaper's Mark..... the scourge of Cyrodiil......
Gah.
The sad part is that she's popular, so some people are actually going to buy this crap. Gratz Jules for inventing something new to complain about. 25 gold stars.
This is the state of class discussion in ESO. Part of the reason is the players who are elevated to have a voice are usually entertainers or popular players who associate with entertainers.
What is this, the high school lunch table? What are you even talking about?Ehh....
I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.
As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.
That said, I am finally rolling a DK.
Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.
In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-
No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.
Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack
The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.
This is not a logical argument.
Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).
What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?
And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.
Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.
And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.
And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.
But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.
Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?
Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.
As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.
I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.
Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.
The purpose was not to say hey, everyone run reapers mark in Cyrodiil its super good and totally viable.
The purpose was to crack this "nb's have no burst heals" theory wide open.
And if we're being real with ourselves, though reapers mark is never used, healing ward, vigor/rally are. And they are more than viable.
But if you really wanna break it down-
Burst heal.
Burst = strong
Heal = restoring health
Sorry nbs, but reapers mark fills that quota when it heals you for 60% of your max health after a kill. You can call it unconventional, you can say it's not viable in Cyrodiil. Sure, I'll give you that, it's probably not. But please do not say it doesn't exist, because it does. It's really not even that much of a stretch to be honest. Through the history of this game, wackier things have been tried. And the opposite morph of Piercing Mark is also a heal on kill, just for less.
Steve, you've played a lot of time on NB and a very little amount of time on other classes. How can you possibly say a class isn't OP when you haven't even dabbled with the others to have anything to compare it to? Play the others and come back to me after when you see what the rest of the classes play like. Cause for now, you sound like a biased nightblade trying to defend his class just like all the others.
Crack "the no burst heal theory" wide open? By using Reapers Mark. Are you insane? It exists in the same way a theoretical foot on top on your head exists: no one wants it and it doesn't do anything useful. But sure. We have a burst heal. Great detective work Jules.
Flat out, you arguing that Reapers Mark is a burst heal is something I never expected from you, you're smarter than that.
As for me defending Nightblade because I'm biased, I'm not the one grasping at straws and pedantically arguing the definition of "burst heal" to try to make my point. And no, I haven't played Sorc and Templar but I play with and against the better ones left in this game, I have a decent idea of where they're at.
Also I'm going DK as my next main so uh, not particularly invested in whatever nerfs you're fishing for. But yeah. I dislike wrong arguments about a class I've played at a competitive level since launch. Get back to me when you actually understand how and why a Nightblade functions, I don't need to play sorc to know how a Nightblade works. If you want to understand it better, play it more. If a Nightblade came into my guild and started telling me this stuff I'd have a sit down and realign his perspective on how to play one.
Id start by taking Reapers Mark off his bar and telling him to befriend a good healing Templar
Sure, you don't need to play sorc, templar or dk to know how a NB works.
But you do need to play them in order to understand how a NB compares to them.
And I'll leave the reapers mark discussion alone after this but honestly, who's being more ridiculous, the person who says their class has no burst heals and meanwhile has a skill that debuffs their target and heals them for 60% of their max health when they die, or the person who points that out. It's not grasping at straws. It's simply looking at your skills and recognizing that they have potential. And NB's have a lot of it.
You're being more ridiculous. You. It was a really silly thing to bring up. I suspect you know better than to actually use it but it was a convenient (if incorrect) counter to my self heal argument. But again, it's a ridiculous thing to even being up. The entire point of a burst heal is that you can get it in a clutch situation to to keep you in the fight. Reapers Mark simply isn't viable. If I'm fighting you and I need a self heal BAD, the solution isn't to to kill you and get 60% max health back, because if I could just KILL you than i don't need the bloody clutch self heal!
Imagine if Dragonknights could only get health back by killing someone? Do I need to bring up the pages you wrote on Green Dragons Blood being useless? Well, it's a billion times better than Reapers Mark. Straight up. Trade me now. Broken DK skill better than my "Nightblade burst heal". This isn't a topic of conversation we agree to disagree on: you're simply wrong. Straight up. It's a bad hill to die on.
And again, I'm pretty solid on how the classes work. I'm not going to tell Teargrants how to play but you better believe I understand what a good sorc is capable of. I'm not a Templar but I study the ones I play against and with, I know what they can do when played right (you should too, you play with Kodi). I actually have a DK (2 ranked ones!). That is to say, I can't tell the experts other class how to play but I can note when they are playing well. I've seen these classes played to potential and they're every bit as good as well played Nightblades.
You're trying to tell me how to play my class. I'm open to arguments on Nightblades being OP. Some of those new DB buffs for example. But you came at this wrong. You started with a plurality of buffs which is basically just saying that Nightblades are too versatile, and than moved on to ignoring my input on what makes Nightblade silly strong, and finished by basically telling me I don't know my class and should learn to burst heal myself with reapers Mark. You want to talk being creative with Nightblade abilities, you should have tried playing one without self heals against pre-nerf DKs. That will teach you to dig deep into the creativity bag quickly.
I don't need to play with Kodi to know what templars are capable of or how they compare to NB's. I play Templar. I have 3 of them. I also have 1 sorc, 2 DK and 2 NB, all v16, maxed, geared, and all above assault/support 10. I have a very good understanding of how each class operates both in group and small scale PVP and how they all compare to one another. I don't need to observe other people doing this or ask them their opinions on the classes, because I have experienced it myself, which is simply not the same level of understanding that you get from observing others.
To all the NB claiming their class isnt OP, I suggest you try playing a stam sorc where you have 0 stam ultimate, 0 ST ability, 0 class CC, 0 major fracture, 0 class gap closer, 0 empower, and 0 class execute. The imbalance between stam nb and stam sorc is by far one of the most disgusting imbalances in the game at this time.
And I never tried to tell you how to play your class steve. You're getting all hung up on Reaper's Mark as if I said it was OP and the golden ticket to NB heals. I simply pointed out the truth, that it is a burst heal. One that you overlooked.
I did not overlook it. I looked at it plenty and determined it was ***. Like all the other Nightblades with half a brain did. The only reason I'm hung up on it is because you won't back down from it. If I can't get you to back off one tiny position you took that is clearly, objectively and demonstratively wrong than what hope do I have of convincing you of anything else?
As for the rest, I feel this is a good example of WHY experience with a class counts for something. I've played NB since day one, every spec imaginable. Hell I played a Stam NB back before peiope knew what that was. You tell me I overlooked Reapers Mark, and I tell you that I've been there, done that, tried it, it's not viable. That you even being it up shows how little you've really experimented with Nightblade. it's not surprising, you rolled Nightblade and immediately went to the FoTM specs, magica bomb Nightblade and Stam roll around Blade. Which I don't blame you for, play what works. But I'm absolutely going to call you out for incorrectly trying to tell me how to play based on such a shallow play sample.
Stam sorcs are also not a viable argument. Them being weak does not mean every other class must be just as weak. I'd argue a good magica sorc > Stam or magica Nightblade. Almost everything is better than a Stam sorc, it has nothing to do with Nightblades.
Why are you literally still talking about reapers mark? I don't care. I never said it was viable, I never said I ran it in Cyrodiil or even thought about running it in Cyrodiil. All of these things you're literally just making up. When did I tell you how to play your class? lol. You keep saying that.
I said Reaper's Mark is a burst heal. That's literally it. Which it is.
Lol, just so off course from the subject at hand. Let it go. We can disagree about whether or not it's a burst heal, who gives af.
As someone who doesn't know anyone in this thread i can say from the outside looking in, certain people in this thread look kind of immature.
It IS possible, believe it or not, to debate the subject at hand without degrading to the point of personal insults. A rivaling chart, for example, with information you believe to be more accurate, with a statement, might do well.3
