Why NB's are OP in 1 picture

Jules

Because everyone said major/minor buffs were not enough, here's the class passives at a glance as well-

Kas

you forgot the binding javelin on the templar and the major eexpedition from boundless strom on sorcs. probably also more.maybe more. still, i don't disagree with your intended message

Jules

Kas wrote: »

you forgot the binding javelin on the templar and the major eexpedition from boundless strom on sorcs. probably also more.maybe more. still, i don't disagree with your intended message

Binding Javelin doesn't give major or minor buff, does it?
And boundless storm major expedition is on there.

Jhunn

Nerf stam sorcs?

#WrobelPlaysNBconfirmed

blabafat

Balance

DocFrost72

Jules wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

you forgot the binding javelin on the templar and the major eexpedition from boundless strom on sorcs. probably also more.maybe more. still, i don't disagree with your intended message

Binding Javelin doesn't give major or minor buff, does it?
And boundless storm major expedition is on there.

He means stam skills...

And yeah, I'd be willing to wager there are more. Dark deal/conversion, one is a stam morph.

Jules

AH yes. I'll update.

Inarre

Insightful. But the class with the emptiest buff lists is one of the strongest. Ironic xD

Jules

Updated

Sunburnt_Penguin

Lol try looking at the solo leaderboards to see exactly how OP NBs are.

EsoRecon

Nightblades aren't OP. They are just the most complete class. Nightblades don't need to be nerfed, the other classes need to be buffed.

Bfish22090

NB passives are the best. however they dont have alot of dots
the cp system helps templars and dks the most

Lyar09

Bfish22090 wrote: »

NB passives are the best. however they dont have alot of dots
the cp system helps templars and dks the most

They have just as many dots as other classes....cripple and lotus fan. Dks have burning breath and unstable flame. Templars have Vampires bane and jabs. Sorcs are probably the only class that don't have multiple dots

Zheg

It's rare that I agree with Jules, like... white whale rare. I don't think it's so much that NB are OP, just that they're so much better balanced than the other classes. In addition to the Excel list, they also have the best resource management with siphon attacks, the highest passive resource regen, and good ults. The game would be very interesting if the other classes were brought up to NB's level of balance.

Brrrofski

It's a losing argument and waste of time.

ZOS plays NBs, stam NBs have a sense of privilege.

They have the best burst and amazing survivability. Not to mention the best passives by a million miles.

Like, whatsit zos see in this current live patch that made them think stam Nb needed a physical ult and all the other physical changes.

People always say zos don't play their own game, but I mean, they really don't. Stam nb especially is completely broken. Mag nb is alright though i think.

Derra

Claiming major berserk for sorcs is a little questionable given they can never access the buff by themselves...

Also explains why sorcs a such a one dimensional class. There is only one core build that cramps everything sorc can possibly access together and variation isn´t much of an option from there.

But hey i have a stamblade. Don´t you dare nerf that one aswell.

RinaldoGandolphi

Of course! @Jules

Nightblades have always been insanely OP and anyone who played in the early days of the game and knew who King of Thieves, Murdo, and Araxleon know this full well.

Try fighting a Nightblade as a Magicka DK....I have no burst, I have to play defensive...I have to play out of my mind to win, i make one mistake i lose, he can make multiple mistakes and still win....he is on the offensive 80% of the fight, i have to play perfect and wait for the perfect opening to kill him...his Suprise Attack spam renders all my armor useless, He also has an AOE Hard CC that ignores my block, forces me to lose control of my toon, has a delay before it can be broken, snares me 50% and inflicts me with Minor maim to just add icing to the cheese cake.

When i run into a Nightblade, its not my fight to win, its his fight to lose....before anyone chimes in with dueling, i don't care about duels, duels mean nothing, the only thing that matters is open world pvp and folks don't wear the same gear or slot the same skills in duels as they do in just standard open world game play.

Hey just because im a Nightblade i get 15% more Health, Magic and Stamina Recovery, don't even have to slot anything...my DK has to slot an ability just to get a measly 5% Health Recovery which is useless.

I stopped leveling my Nightblade at level 24 4 months ago because it was stupidly OP...anyone can learn how to AC and land 3-4 attacks on someone at once insta-killing them out of stealth.

With nearly 29k Health, almost 20k Armor(before buffed) All Impen Gold Gear and 60+ points in Hardy and 30+ points in Resistant a Nightblade still hit me for 23k+ Damage with a Stealth Attack while I was buffed with Spiked Armor(add another 5,280 Armor)I had to play out of my mind to win that encounter....give me a break...and Nightblades have the audacity to complain about Radiant Destruction? get real!

...Suprise Attack is just face roll DPS spam as @Xylena put it...its really a joke...

Stamina Nightblade is the most powerful class spec in the game by a large margin...Stamina DK is in second but they are a very long way down the totem pole to second place....

80% of Cyrodiil will be Nightblades next update...Surprise Attack spam alone will kill 6 out of 10 players easily, Nightblades will be worse then they were in the IC update...its going to be comical....

Not to mention the new poisons being introduce favor stealth gank gameplay.(which is far too strong as it is)...Archers will pew pew you hidden from range, infect you with a poison that makes all your skills cost 60% more, while he takes half your health and then moves in for the 1 shot kill.

This whole thing is so stupidly broken they might as well rename the game Call of Duty Online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqxr9npkbHo

This right here shouldn't even be possible...guy is wearing 5 Heavy Armor on the Vid and is still insta-killed. I don't care if they are Emp or not...that right there is what is broken about Stealth gameplay, and it will only get worse with the next update.

Jules

Derra wrote: »

Claiming major berserk for sorcs is a little questionable given they can never access the buff by themselves...

Also explains why sorcs a such a one dimensional class. There is only one core build that cramps everything sorc can possibly access together and variation isn´t much of an option from there.

But hey i have a stamblade. Don´t you dare nerf that one aswell.

Agreed, sorcs are one dimensional and the major beserk isn't readily accessible. Just like the major expedition on dk isn't really accessible when it is a 2s buff on an inferior gap closer. But I didn't pick and choose which to include, I just included all for the sake of impartiality.

zyk

What a silly post. Like these factors are only what define a strong class and build.

Puh-lease.

Derra

Jules wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Claiming major berserk for sorcs is a little questionable given they can never access the buff by themselves...

Also explains why sorcs a such a one dimensional class. There is only one core build that cramps everything sorc can possibly access together and variation isn´t much of an option from there.

But hey i have a stamblade. Don´t you dare nerf that one aswell.

Agreed, sorcs are one dimensional and the major beserk isn't readily accessible. Just like the major expedition on dk isn't really accessible when it is a 2s buff on an inferior gap closer. But I didn't pick and choose which to include, I just included all for the sake of impartiality.

Well atleast the DK gets the buff - even though it´s questionable in application.

The sorc can not get the major berserk at all. The attro gets it and the other player using it. Are there even other classes that have access to buffs they can´t access themselves only via grp synergy?

EsoRecon

Brrrofski wrote: »

It's a losing argument and waste of time.

ZOS plays NBs, stam NBs have a sense of privilege.

They have the best burst and amazing survivability. Not to mention the best passives by a million miles.

Like, whatsit zos see in this current live patch that made them think stam Nb needed a physical ult and all the other physical changes.

People always say zos don't play their own game, but I mean, they really don't. Stam nb especially is completely broken. Mag nb is alright though i think.

don't be so narrow minded

Bramir

I had no idea it was this bad...thanks for spelling this out. Obviously sorcerer needs more nerfs...

Brrrofski

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Of course! @Jules

Nightblades have always been insanely OP and anyone who played in the early days of the game and knew who King of Thieves, Murdo, and Araxleon know this full well.

Try fighting a Nightblade as a Magicka DK....I have no burst, I have to play defensive...I have to play out of my mind to win, i make one mistake i lose, he can make multiple mistakes and still win....he is on the offensive 80% of the fight, i have to play perfect and wait for the perfect opening to kill him...his Suprise Attack spam renders all my armor useless, He also has an AOE Hard CC that ignores my block, forces me to lose control of my toon, has a delay before it can be broken, snares me 50% and inflicts me with Minor maim to just add icing to the cheese cake.

When i run into a Nightblade, its not my fight to win, its his fight to lose....before anyone chimes in with dueling, i don't care about duels, duels mean nothing, the only thing that matters is open world pvp and folks don't wear the same gear or slot the same skills in duels as they do in just standard open world game play.

Hey just because im a Nightblade i get 15% more Health, Magic and Stamina Recovery, don't even have to slot anything...my DK has to slot an ability just to get a measly 5% Health Recovery which is useless.

I stopped leveling my Nightblade at level 24 4 months ago because it was stupidly OP...anyone can learn how to AC and land 3-4 attacks on someone at once insta-killing them out of stealth.

With nearly 29k Health, almost 20k Armor(before buffed) All Impen Gold Gear and 60+ points in Hardy and 30+ points in Resistant a Nightblade still hit me for 23k+ Damage with a Stealth Attack while I was buffed with Spiked Armor(add another 5,280 Armor)I had to play out of my mind to win that encounter....give me a break...and Nightblades have the audacity to complain about Radiant Destruction? get real!

...Suprise Attack is just face roll DPS spam as @Xylena put it...its really a joke...

Stamina Nightblade is the most powerful class spec in the game by a large margin...Stamina DK is in second but they are a very long way down the totem pole to second place....

80% of Cyrodiil will be Nightblades next update...Surprise Attack spam alone will kill 6 out of 10 players easily, Nightblades will be worse then they were in the IC update...its going to be comical....

Not to mention the new poisons being introduce favor stealth gank gameplay.(which is far too strong as it is)...Archers will pew pew you hidden from range, infect you with a poison that makes all your skills cost 60% more, while he takes half your health and then moves in for the 1 shot kill.

This whole thing is so stupidly broken they might as well rename the game Call of Duty Online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqxr9npkbHo

This right here shouldn't even be possible...guy is wearing 5 Heavy Armor on the Vid and is still insta-killed. I don't care if they are Emp or not...that right there is what is broken about Stealth gameplay, and it will only get worse with the next update.

Yeh, but on top of all that you said which is bang on, look at survivability element.

Cloak, vigor, rally - they're back to full health. Just like that. Then back on the offence, starting with heavy damage from stealth. Throw in dodge and shuffle, bow or double take for speed abd they literally have it all. Stam nb is beyond broken. It's a joke. Really is.

Rune_Relic

Exploitation passive. - minor prophecy

Negate Magic...
Minor protection
Minor erosion
Major expedition
Major fortitude
Major intellect
Major endurance

emily3989

That's great and all, but assuming you are only going to slot 8 of those max with 2 bars, assuming you have at least 2 abilities that are not class specific slotted, not sure the point unless you are simply talking about the better array of options.

If it was wow and you could have 40 abilities on your screen, ok.

Jules

emily3989 wrote: »

That's great and all, but assuming you are only going to slot 8 of those max with 2 bars, assuming you have at least 2 abilities that are not class specific slotted, not sure the point unless you are simply talking about the better array of options.

If it was wow and you could have 40 abilities on your screen, ok.

Ask a stam dk/templar/sorc how many class skills they slot and I think you'll have your answer.

Jules

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Exploitation passive. - minor prophecy

I saw this but purposefully did not include major/minor buffs that were exclusively for allies. I only included buffs that applied to self.

Kalebron

This thread is like showing a nickle and a dime to a 5-year-old and asking them which one is bigger...

Sanct16

@Jules
The problem with just listing Minor and Major Buffs is that it doesnt take the unique class passives into consideration which are more important than some Minor/Major Buffs. Nightblades get extra crit damage, 8% more Magicka, 20% (?) extra recoveries and have the best resource managment tool (siphoning attacks) which allows them to run 800 magicka reg on a max dmg build. That's why NB is the best pvp group-DD - not because they have some extra Major Buffs.

However if you want to argue based on Major/Minor Buffs there is no information gain in listing the same buff several times; for example for Nightblades you list Major Expedition 5 times. If anything you should only list the different buffs.
Another thing that has to be considered is whether buffs are unique to the class or can be gained easily via weapon skills: I'd argue that having access to Major Mending is better than Major Expedition.
There's a couple more things but I guess you see where its going.

All in all I agree that NBs are OP atm but I cant agree with this spreadsheet.

zyk

Kalebron wrote: »

This thread is like showing a nickle and a dime to a 5-year-old and asking them which one is bigger...

Yup. It's just an image with out of context data that does not come close to painting a complete or accurate picture of any class. It is certainly not reflective of the relative power balance we see between classes in Cyrodiil each day -- nor in 2.4.

It is only useful as an excuse for stupid and biased people to trash the NB class. Essentially, Jules is Trumping us.

Rohamad_Ali

I really dislike calls for nerfs .

Edited out the role playing