Why NB's are OP in 1 picture

Publius_Scipio · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Psychotius wrote: »

Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.

I wouldn't use the word "extremely", but yes no NB is taking damage like Mojican. He just absorbs and heals through pretty much everything.

I never understood why ESO generally puts healing and dmg mitigations higher in the food chain than good 'ole up in your face DPS.

This is the biggest problem in the game in my opinion - and one they need to fix before any BGs/Arenas are introduced.

Unkillable builds vs unkillable builds wouldn't make for a really interesting arena/BG combat.

Damage should be´outperforming all healing/dmg shields, but at a slow pace. Health should be doubled or tripled - even quadrupled, healing/shield effectiveness halved in PvP.

Health bars should always be moving towards the zero point, only slowed down by heals & shields.

When defensive abilities outperform offensive ones, you get infinite fights.

I agree with you 100%. Healing and mitigation are important aspects in order for game balance to be achieved. But SHOULD NEVER outclass DPS the way it does now in ESO.

It's ridiculous that a max level build can heal through and take a full on DPS assault from two, three, 4+ max level enemy players and literally just sit there and spam heals without pretty much any care at all.

Healing and mitigation are important, but DPS should always have the benefit of the pendulum swing if someone is literally standing there just healing while enemy unloads on them.

You mean to tell me someone is going to survive simply through healing while being stabbed in the gut and taking multiple mace shots to the face!? I don't know about you Europeans or Australians, but not here in the USA!

These are the typed words of Publius Scipio of NYC.

DDuke · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Psychotius wrote: »

Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.

Explain to me how night blades are more squishy, please.

When I use Volatile Armor as a DK, one of our most defensive skills, I gain Major Resolve and Major Ward, increasing my spell and physical resist by 5280.

To receive these buffs on a templar, I drop a restoring focus, a defensive skill.

What does a NB do to receive Major Resolve and Major Ward? They use surprise attack. Which also simultaneously inflicts major fracture to reduce their targets armor.

If you don't see something wrong with gaining buffs passively that the other "tankier" classes need to use actual skills to receive, then I don't even know.

Where as NBs get Major Resolve/Ward (8% dmg mitigation) from casting a Shadow Ability (not just Surprise Attack)
DKs get a full heal when using an ultimate & 5% stamina back from using a defensive dmg shield that also gives them Major Mending (+20% healing)

I am usually either solo, or in a group of 2-4 people. Occasionally I also play with larger groups of 8-12 on EP, however I'm unsure how this is even relevant.

Dk's do not get automatically get a full heal when using an ultimate, it entirely depends on which ultimate they are using. The 5% stam back is useful, as is the major mending from igneous. The damage shield part of igneous is laughable as it scales off of health and is usually extremely small. And DK's have these capabilities because they are fleshed out to be a TANKIER class. My question to you would by- why does your DD NB receive the same defensive buffs that I have to use defensive skills for, just by using your already strong offensive abilities?

You cast that Igneous while you have Rally+Vigor up, it mitigates 75-100% of the next uncrittable Surprise Attack & now you're back at full health thanks to the Major Mending while also getting some 5k stamina back.

When you compare NB to that, wouldn't you call the NB squishier?

Quote:

Explain to me how night blades are more squishy, please.

Explained.

And again it doesn't matter how many button presses you have to make to get buffs X & Y - what matters is how much those button presses are worth in terms of survivability.

Hitting someone with Surprise Attack doesn't heal you nor does it doesn't shield you, the only thing it does is give you +8% mitigation with Major Ward/Resolve that you already had from casting Shadow Image/whatever from earlier.

I'd trade that Major Ward/Resolve (which doesn't really synergize well with medium armor/cloak anyway) for +5% stamina every time I cloak - no questions asked.

But really, if we're going into that territory - why are DKs/Sorcs the only ones who can get Major Brutality from their class skills (without having to hit a target & break stealth) - the buff that increases dmg?

Also, I wonder what you mean with "strong offensive abilities".

The only reason I'd slot Surprise Attack over Jabs or Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst is the synergy it has with cloak & the whole playstyle associated with it, which currently doesn't even work because of how buggy cloak is.

The saving grace of NB offense is Ambush - another ability that requires cloak to work properly for all the offensive combos to work (and also comboes well with Surprise Attack/Incap, but not with Rapid Strikes).

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Of course! @Jules

Nightblades have always been insanely OP and anyone who played in the early days of the game and knew who King of Thieves, Murdo, and Araxleon know this full well.

Try fighting a Nightblade as a Magicka DK....I have no burst, I have to play defensive...I have to play out of my mind to win, i make one mistake i lose, he can make multiple mistakes and still win....he is on the offensive 80% of the fight, i have to play perfect and wait for the perfect opening to kill him...his Suprise Attack spam renders all my armor useless, He also has an AOE Hard CC that ignores my block, forces me to lose control of my toon, has a delay before it can be broken, snares me 50% and inflicts me with Minor maim to just add icing to the cheese cake.

When i run into a Nightblade, its not my fight to win, its his fight to lose....before anyone chimes in with dueling, i don't care about duels, duels mean nothing, the only thing that matters is open world pvp and folks don't wear the same gear or slot the same skills in duels as they do in just standard open world game play.

Hey just because im a Nightblade i get 15% more Health, Magic and Stamina Recovery, don't even have to slot anything...my DK has to slot an ability just to get a measly 5% Health Recovery which is useless.

I stopped leveling my Nightblade at level 24 4 months ago because it was stupidly OP...anyone can learn how to AC and land 3-4 attacks on someone at once insta-killing them out of stealth.

With nearly 29k Health, almost 20k Armor(before buffed) All Impen Gold Gear and 60+ points in Hardy and 30+ points in Resistant a Nightblade still hit me for 23k+ Damage with a Stealth Attack while I was buffed with Spiked Armor(add another 5,280 Armor)I had to play out of my mind to win that encounter....give me a break...and Nightblades have the audacity to complain about Radiant Destruction? get real!

...Suprise Attack is just face roll DPS spam as @Xylena put it...its really a joke...

Stamina Nightblade is the most powerful class spec in the game by a large margin...Stamina DK is in second but they are a very long way down the totem pole to second place....

80% of Cyrodiil will be Nightblades next update...Surprise Attack spam alone will kill 6 out of 10 players easily, Nightblades will be worse then they were in the IC update...its going to be comical....

Not to mention the new poisons being introduce favor stealth gank gameplay.(which is far too strong as it is)...Archers will pew pew you hidden from range, infect you with a poison that makes all your skills cost 60% more, while he takes half your health and then moves in for the 1 shot kill.

This whole thing is so stupidly broken they might as well rename the game Call of Duty Online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqxr9npkbHo

This right here shouldn't even be possible...guy is wearing 5 Heavy Armor on the Vid and is still insta-killed. I don't care if they are Emp or not...that right there is what is broken about Stealth gameplay, and it will only get worse with the next update.

i completely agree with everything on the above. the video itself is outrageous. please zos look at this ***

Yeah, and look at this Nightblade too!

https://youtu.be/oSXWtKE61rk

So op, please ner- oh, wait a second - it's not a NB?

An awkward silence fills the room. People look around, confused.

what awkward silence his damage is a lot yes but look at the time people have to react before getting executed ???? decent amount of time to doge roll or react but on the night blade video nothing!!! so your argument is not valid. (laughs of disappointment fills the room after watching your video) lol

DDuke · May 2016

Basicly NB is like a broken puzzle at the moment - it's good for ganking but for other things it's missing a big piece that ties it all together: cloak.

When this skill is fixed & works reliably, NBs will be on par with others for 1v1 & 1vX as well and then we can talk about nerfing other aspects of the class if necessary.

Maybe one day, tournament winners won't be only DKs & Sorcs.

Jules · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

You cast that Igneous while you have Rally+Vigor up, it mitigates 75-100% of the next uncrittable Surprise Attack & now you're back at full health thanks to the Major Mending while also getting some 5k stamina back.

When you compare NB to that, wouldn't you call the NB squishier?

Fair enough, I would call the NB squishier than a DK. However, rightfully so as its damage potential grossly outclasses DK any day.

DDuke wrote: »

And again it doesn't matter how many button presses you have to make to get buffs X & Y - what matters is how much those button presses are worth in terms of survivability.

It in fact DOES matter how many button presses you have to make to get buffs X & Y. When you press one button to do damage and gain major/resolve ward, and I have to press two, that frees up a slot on your bar for a number of other abilities. We have only 10 available slots, see how that works?

DDuke wrote: »

Hitting someone with Surprise Attack doesn't heal you nor does it doesn't shield you, the only thing it does is give you +8% mitigation with Major Ward/Resolve that you already had from casting Shadow Image/whatever from earlier.

This is not all surprise attack does. Surprise attack also stuns your enemy from stealth and afflicts them with major fracture. It's a completely OFFENSIVE ability that passively gives you the defensiveness that a DK or templar has to slot in an actual skill. It doesn't heal or shield you because that is not the purpose of the skill, it's a damage skill. So why does it give you defensive buffs?

DDuke wrote: »

I'd trade that Major Ward/Resolve (which doesn't really synergize well with medium armor/cloak anyway) for +5% stamina every time I cloak - no questions asked.

How does having static 5280 spell or physical resist not synergize well with medium armor? It's an increase in resistances. It's free defense. It literally synergizes with everything well.

DDuke wrote: »

Also, I wonder what you mean with "strong offensive abilities".

Literally take your pick. Look at your own class lines and pick offensive abilities. And please don't dare try and tell me these are lacking in some way.

DDuke wrote: »

The only reason I'd slot Surprise Attack over Jabs or Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst is the synergy it has with cloak & the whole playstyle associated with it, which currently doesn't even work because of how buggy cloak is.

There are literally NUMEROUS reasons to slot SA over jabs.

For one, it isn't a channel, it's instant cast.
For two, jabs is considered a dot and the stamina version allows these dots to be dodgeable.
For three, SA is single target, and jabs is considered AOE. The damage of SA is much higher for this reason.
Four, surprise attack inflicts major fracture as stated previously, giving your target a static -5280 armor when you hit them.
Five, jabs doesn't give you major ward or major breach.
Six, jabs doesn't give you 3% health

DDuke · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Of course! @Jules

Nightblades have always been insanely OP and anyone who played in the early days of the game and knew who King of Thieves, Murdo, and Araxleon know this full well.

Try fighting a Nightblade as a Magicka DK....I have no burst, I have to play defensive...I have to play out of my mind to win, i make one mistake i lose, he can make multiple mistakes and still win....he is on the offensive 80% of the fight, i have to play perfect and wait for the perfect opening to kill him...his Suprise Attack spam renders all my armor useless, He also has an AOE Hard CC that ignores my block, forces me to lose control of my toon, has a delay before it can be broken, snares me 50% and inflicts me with Minor maim to just add icing to the cheese cake.

When i run into a Nightblade, its not my fight to win, its his fight to lose....before anyone chimes in with dueling, i don't care about duels, duels mean nothing, the only thing that matters is open world pvp and folks don't wear the same gear or slot the same skills in duels as they do in just standard open world game play.

Hey just because im a Nightblade i get 15% more Health, Magic and Stamina Recovery, don't even have to slot anything...my DK has to slot an ability just to get a measly 5% Health Recovery which is useless.

I stopped leveling my Nightblade at level 24 4 months ago because it was stupidly OP...anyone can learn how to AC and land 3-4 attacks on someone at once insta-killing them out of stealth.

With nearly 29k Health, almost 20k Armor(before buffed) All Impen Gold Gear and 60+ points in Hardy and 30+ points in Resistant a Nightblade still hit me for 23k+ Damage with a Stealth Attack while I was buffed with Spiked Armor(add another 5,280 Armor)I had to play out of my mind to win that encounter....give me a break...and Nightblades have the audacity to complain about Radiant Destruction? get real!

...Suprise Attack is just face roll DPS spam as @Xylena put it...its really a joke...

Stamina Nightblade is the most powerful class spec in the game by a large margin...Stamina DK is in second but they are a very long way down the totem pole to second place....

80% of Cyrodiil will be Nightblades next update...Surprise Attack spam alone will kill 6 out of 10 players easily, Nightblades will be worse then they were in the IC update...its going to be comical....

Not to mention the new poisons being introduce favor stealth gank gameplay.(which is far too strong as it is)...Archers will pew pew you hidden from range, infect you with a poison that makes all your skills cost 60% more, while he takes half your health and then moves in for the 1 shot kill.

This whole thing is so stupidly broken they might as well rename the game Call of Duty Online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqxr9npkbHo

This right here shouldn't even be possible...guy is wearing 5 Heavy Armor on the Vid and is still insta-killed. I don't care if they are Emp or not...that right there is what is broken about Stealth gameplay, and it will only get worse with the next update.

i completely agree with everything on the above. the video itself is outrageous. please zos look at this ***

Yeah, and look at this Nightblade too!

https://youtu.be/oSXWtKE61rk

So op, please ner- oh, wait a second - it's not a NB?

An awkward silence fills the room. People look around, confused.

what awkward silence his damage is a lot yes but look at the time people have to react before getting executed ???? decent amount of time to doge roll or react but on the night blade video nothing!!! so your argument is not valid. (laughs of disappointment fills the room after watching your video) lol

Ok, so we are discussing whether people get instagibbed in 0,1 seconds or 0,2 seconds. It has really come to this point. Sigh.

Is it such a terrible thing if NBs do atleast one thing 0,1 seconds better than another class?

But you don't have to worry about that, next patch all other stamina builds can global you in NB speed & velocity with DBOS. Heck, stamplars can even do that to a whole zerg with jabs->DBOS - much like magicka builds atm with VD Detonations.

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

Basicly NB is like a broken puzzle at the moment - it's good for ganking but for other things it's missing a big piece that ties it all together: cloak.

When this skill is fixed & works reliably, as well and then we can talk about nerfing other aspects of the class if necessary.

Maybe one day, tournament winners won't be only DKs & Sorcs.

hahahaha wow this statement made me laugh. do you even nightblade bro? "

DDuke wrote: »

Basicly NB is like a broken puzzle at the moment - it's good for ganking but for other things it's missing a big piece that ties it all together: cloak.

When this skill is fixed & works reliably, NBs will be on par with others for 1v1 & 1vX as well and then we can talk about nerfing other aspects of the class if necessary.

Maybe one day, tournament winners won't be only DKs & Sorcs.

hahahaha wow this statement made me laugh. do you even nightblade bro? "NBs will be on par with others for 1v1 & 1vX" loooool this statement tells me you don't know what night blades can do in 1vx ...... DKs are the original 1vx yes but NB are the definition of 1vX do your home work before you make that kind of statement.

blabafat · May 2016

@genjutsu_kami I am 100% sure that @DDuke plays Nightblade. If you clicked on "YouTube" in his signature, you would see.

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

blabafat wrote: »

@genjutsu_kami I am 100% sure that @DDuke plays Nightblade. If you clicked on "YouTube" in his signature, you would see.

ooooooh *** am about to get told of by blabafat hahaha my bad man i dint know he was legit hahahah @blabafat you legit bro i know about you so ill retract that statement slightly but if he does @DDuke i feel he may be biased cause if he's legit then he clearly knows the best 1vx builds are nightblads with 2k impen 2.4k+ recovery and 4k weapon damage (buffed stats) not to mention other buffed stats you can get playing NB as passives........ i know other classes can get these figures but be honest and i think the whole community will agree playing a night blade build at full potential is one of or the best 1vx build in the game and yes it is over achieving.

DDuke · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You cast that Igneous while you have Rally+Vigor up, it mitigates 75-100% of the next uncrittable Surprise Attack & now you're back at full health thanks to the Major Mending while also getting some 5k stamina back.

When you compare NB to that, wouldn't you call the NB squishier?

Fair enough, I would call the NB squishier than a DK. However, rightfully so as its damage potential grossly outclasses DK any day.

No, it doesn't. There's a reason why NBs are lucky to hit 30k DPS in PvE while stamina DKs are approaching 50k.

Do you know how much damage those DoTs do? Having those DoTs up on you is the same as having a -100% healing debuff, because they outdps your Vigor & Rally. Surprise Attack does not outdps Igneous+Vigor & Rally.

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

And again it doesn't matter how many button presses you have to make to get buffs X & Y - what matters is how much those button presses are worth in terms of survivability.

It in fact DOES matter how many button presses you have to make to get buffs X & Y. When you press one button to do damage and gain major/resolve ward, and I have to press two, that frees up a slot on your bar for a number of other abilities. We have only 10 available slots, see how that works?

Yes, there's the use of having more available skill slots - granted. But does that really matter when you can get all the same buffs & more as stamina DK or stamina templar, without having a single weak skill on your bar?

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Hitting someone with Surprise Attack doesn't heal you nor does it doesn't shield you, the only thing it does is give you +8% mitigation with Major Ward/Resolve that you already had from casting Shadow Image/whatever from earlier.

This is not all surprise attack does. Surprise attack also stuns your enemy from stealth and afflicts them with major fracture. It's a completely OFFENSIVE ability that passively gives you the defensiveness that a DK or templar has to slot in an actual skill. It doesn't heal or shield you because that is not the purpose of the skill, it's a damage skill. So why does it give you defensive buffs?

Yes, I mentioned the cloak synergy later in my post. If only that cloak actually worked so you could make that synergy matter...

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I'd trade that Major Ward/Resolve (which doesn't really synergize well with medium armor/cloak anyway) for +5% stamina every time I cloak - no questions asked.

How does having static 5280 spell or physical resist not synergize well with medium armor? It's an increase in resistances. It's free defense. It literally synergizes with everything well.

Quite simple: you cloak to avoid damage & you roll dodge with medium armor to avoid damage, so that buff loses value because it does nothing during that period.

Where it's most useful is in a heavy armor build, or any other kind of build that is more focused on tanking the damage than avoiding it.

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

The only reason I'd slot Surprise Attack over Jabs or Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst is the synergy it has with cloak & the whole playstyle associated with it, which currently doesn't even work because of how buggy cloak is.

There are literally NUMEROUS reasons to slot SA over jabs.

For one, it isn't a channel, it's instant cast.
For two, jabs is considered a dot and the stamina version allows these dots to be dodgeable.
For three, SA is single target, and jabs is considered AOE. The damage of SA is much higher for this reason.
Four, surprise attack inflicts major fracture as stated previously, giving your target a static -5280 armor when you hit them.
Five, jabs doesn't give you major ward or major breach.
Six, jabs doesn't give you 3% health

The only reason to pick an instant cast over channel would be Major Empower. Otherwise, a skill with 0.6 seconds channel time (Rapids/Bloodthirst next patch) is the same as an instant cast - except it deals more total damage than Surprise Attack (especially with points in Thaumaturge).
Jabs is dodgeable, Sweeps are dodgeable, Surprise Attack is dodgeable. What is your point?
Actually, if you go hit a target with Ransack & then use Jabs, you'll quickly notice it provides significantly more DPS than Surprise Attack. This is true on Live, and even more so in PTS with Burning Light buffed.
Yes, I suppose that's good for people who don't want to slot S&B on off bar (and aren't DKs with the poison breath). +8% Damage on targets without a dmg shield - though you lose 20%'ish DPS compared to Jabs or Rapid Strikes. Worth?
Jabs doesn't give you 3% health, it only gives you the +10% crit dmg, +10% dmg against blocking targets & +15% blocked dmg while being on your bar.

Jules · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You cast that Igneous while you have Rally+Vigor up, it mitigates 75-100% of the next uncrittable Surprise Attack & now you're back at full health thanks to the Major Mending while also getting some 5k stamina back.

When you compare NB to that, wouldn't you call the NB squishier?

Fair enough, I would call the NB squishier than a DK. However, rightfully so as its damage potential grossly outclasses DK any day.

No, it doesn't. There's a reason why NBs are lucky to hit 30k DPS in PvE while stamina DKs are approaching 50k.

Do you know how much damage those DoTs do? Having those DoTs up on you is the same as having a -100% healing debuff, because they outdps your Vigor & Rally. Surprise Attack does not outdps Igneous+Vigor & Rally.

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

And again it doesn't matter how many button presses you have to make to get buffs X & Y - what matters is how much those button presses are worth in terms of survivability.

It in fact DOES matter how many button presses you have to make to get buffs X & Y. When you press one button to do damage and gain major/resolve ward, and I have to press two, that frees up a slot on your bar for a number of other abilities. We have only 10 available slots, see how that works?

Yes, there's the use of having more available skill slots - granted. But does that really matter when you can get all the same buffs & more as stamina DK or stamina templar, without having a single weak skill on your bar?

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Hitting someone with Surprise Attack doesn't heal you nor does it doesn't shield you, the only thing it does is give you +8% mitigation with Major Ward/Resolve that you already had from casting Shadow Image/whatever from earlier.

This is not all surprise attack does. Surprise attack also stuns your enemy from stealth and afflicts them with major fracture. It's a completely OFFENSIVE ability that passively gives you the defensiveness that a DK or templar has to slot in an actual skill. It doesn't heal or shield you because that is not the purpose of the skill, it's a damage skill. So why does it give you defensive buffs?

Yes, I mentioned the cloak synergy later in my post. If only that cloak actually worked so you could make that synergy matter...

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I'd trade that Major Ward/Resolve (which doesn't really synergize well with medium armor/cloak anyway) for +5% stamina every time I cloak - no questions asked.

How does having static 5280 spell or physical resist not synergize well with medium armor? It's an increase in resistances. It's free defense. It literally synergizes with everything well.

Quite simple: you cloak to avoid damage & you roll dodge with medium armor to avoid damage, so that buff loses value because it does nothing during that period.

Where it's most useful is in a heavy armor build, or any other kind of build that is more focused on tanking the damage than avoiding it.

Jules wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

The only reason I'd slot Surprise Attack over Jabs or Rapid Strikes/Bloodthirst is the synergy it has with cloak & the whole playstyle associated with it, which currently doesn't even work because of how buggy cloak is.

There are literally NUMEROUS reasons to slot SA over jabs.

For one, it isn't a channel, it's instant cast.
For two, jabs is considered a dot and the stamina version allows these dots to be dodgeable.
For three, SA is single target, and jabs is considered AOE. The damage of SA is much higher for this reason.
Four, surprise attack inflicts major fracture as stated previously, giving your target a static -5280 armor when you hit them.
Five, jabs doesn't give you major ward or major breach.
Six, jabs doesn't give you 3% health

The only reason to pick an instant cast over channel would be Major Empower. Otherwise, a skill with 0.6 seconds channel time (Rapids/Bloodthirst next patch) is the same as an instant cast - except it deals more total damage than Surprise Attack (especially with points in Thaumaturge).

Jabs is dodgeable, Sweeps are dodgeable, Surprise Attack is dodgeable. What is your point?

Actually, if you go hit a target with Ransack & then use Jabs, you'll quickly notice it provides significantly more DPS than Surprise Attack. This is true on Live, and even more so in PTS with Burning Light buffed.

Yes, I suppose that's good for people who don't want to slot S&B on off bar (and aren't DKs with the poison breath). +8% Damage on targets without a dmg shield - though you lose 20%'ish DPS compared to Jabs or Rapid Strikes. Worth?

Jabs doesn't give you 3% health, it only gives you the +10% crit dmg, +10% dmg against blocking targets & +15% blocked dmg while being on your bar.

I'm sorry I just don't care to read all of that or go back and forth anymore. Neither of us are convincing the other, so I think it's best we just end the conversation. Have a good day.

blabafat · May 2016

@genjutsu_kami Of course @DDuke has a potentially biased perspective. Whenever class balance comes up, everyone has a subjective point of view. For example - my Radiant Destruction thread. The majority of people defending it were Templars. Coincidence? Absolutely not. It's only natural for people to defend what they play, and we cannot blame them for it. Very few players can take a completely objective point of view.

What I'm saying is, yes - you are right. @DDuke might be biased. However, I could say that people who are attacking NB and don't play it are also biased because they are trying to nerf something so their class is not weak (relative).

Bias is always going to be here - in these class balance discussions. It is what it is.

DDuke · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

@genjutsu_kami I am 100% sure that @DDuke plays Nightblade. If you clicked on "YouTube" in his signature, you would see.

ooooooh *** am about to get told of by blabafat hahaha my bad man i dint know he was legit hahahah @blabafat you legit bro i know about you so ill retract that statement slightly but if he does @DDuke i feel he may be biased cause if he's legit then he clearly knows the best 1vx builds are nightblads with 2k impen 2.4k+ recovery and 4k weapon damage (buffed stats) not to mention other buffed stats you can get playing NB as passives........ i know other classes can get these figures but be honest and i think the whole community will agree playing a night blade build at full potential is one of or the best 1vx build in the game and yes it is over achieving.

Nightblades can gank & get kills in 1vX. I don't disagree. Sadly, that's all they shine at.

You mark a nightblade & zerg starts jbeaming, it's a dead NB. You put that NB & make him 1v1 a good stam DK or stamplar or magplar, it's a dead NB.

Nightblade is my favourite class in this game (I play all of them) & I'd be happily playing it if I thought it currently outperformed other classes, such as magicka templar - which is currently the class I play because it's simply stronger in most scenarios.

If NB only shines in ganking, it doesn't really fill the definition of "overpowered" or even "on par" to me.

rfennell_ESO · May 2016

No one ever says "they had too many nightblades".

But too many DKs and the biggie of too many templars are the real issues.

Templars are, by far, the most effective RvR class, and it's by a huge margin.

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

blabafat wrote: »

@genjutsu_kami Of course @DDuke has a potentially biased perspective. Whenever class balance comes up, everyone has a subjective point of view. For example - my Radiant Destruction thread. The majority of people defending it were Templars. Coincidence? Absolutely not. It's only natural for people to defend what they play, and we cannot blame them for it. Very few players can take a completely objective point of view.

What I'm saying is, yes - you are right. @DDuke might be biased. However, I could say that people who are attacking NB and don't play it are also biased because they are trying to nerf something so their class is not weak (relative).

Bias is always going to be here - in these class balance discussions. It is what it is.

point taken I'm bias towards templars because its my favourite class, i play night blade also so i already know my damage potential with my NB is head and shoulders above my stamplar. but @blabafat @DDuke i do understand what you are saying when it comes to situations such as zergs and being marked. but in terms of damage just damage alone shouldn't there be a multiplier effect that works for every class in full potential. for example concealed weapon crib toned down from 12k to 6k and jabs toned down similar from 8k to 6k on par with NB and so on for DKs and SORCS...... what would you both suggest in terms on balance be done. in terms of damage not survivability cause thats a whole topic itself.

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

@genjutsu_kami I am 100% sure that @DDuke plays Nightblade. If you clicked on "YouTube" in his signature, you would see.

ooooooh *** am about to get told of by blabafat hahaha my bad man i dint know he was legit hahahah @blabafat you legit bro i know about you so ill retract that statement slightly but if he does @DDuke i feel he may be biased cause if he's legit then he clearly knows the best 1vx builds are nightblads with 2k impen 2.4k+ recovery and 4k weapon damage (buffed stats) not to mention other buffed stats you can get playing NB as passives........ i know other classes can get these figures but be honest and i think the whole community will agree playing a night blade build at full potential is one of or the best 1vx build in the game and yes it is over achieving.

Nightblades can gank & get kills in 1vX. I don't disagree. Sadly, that's all they shine at.

You mark a nightblade & zerg starts jbeaming, it's a dead NB. You put that NB & make him 1v1 a good stam DK or stamplar or magplar, it's a dead NB.

Nightblade is my favourite class in this game (I play all of them) & I'd be happily playing it if I thought it currently outperformed other classes, such as magicka templar - which is currently the class I play because it's simply stronger in most scenarios.

If NB only shines in ganking, it doesn't really fill the definition of "overpowered" or even "on par" to me.

point taken I'm bias towards templars because its my favourite class, i play night blade also so i already know my damage potential with my NB is head and shoulders above my stamplar. but @blabafat @DDuke i do understand what you are saying when it comes to situations such as zergs and being marked. but in terms of damage just damage alone shouldn't there be a multiplier effect that works for every class in full potential. for example concealed weapon crit toned down from 12k to 6k and jabs toned down similar from 8k to 6k on par with NB and so on for DKs and SORCS...... what would you both suggest in terms on balance be done. in terms of damage not survivability cause thats a whole topic itself.

SneaK · May 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

No one ever says "they had too many nightblades".

But too many DKs and the biggie of too many templars are the real issues.

Templars are, by far, the most effective RvR class, and it's by a huge margin.

Quoted for truth. (Aside from the times I have been ganked off my horse by packs of NBs... not a real issue though)

Destyran · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Jules
The problem with just listing Minor and Major Buffs is that it doesnt take the unique class passives into consideration which are more important than some Minor/Major Buffs. Nightblades get extra crit damage, 8% more Magicka, 20% (?) extra recoveries and have the best resource managment tool (siphoning attacks) which allows them to run 800 magicka reg on a max dmg build. That's why NB is the best pvp group-DD - not because they have some extra Major Buffs.

However if you want to argue based on Major/Minor Buffs there is no information gain in listing the same buff several times; for example for Nightblades you list Major Expedition 5 times. If anything you should only list the different buffs.
Another thing that has to be considered is whether buffs are unique to the class or can be gained easily via weapon skills: I'd argue that having access to Major Mending is better than Major Expedition.
There's a couple more things but I guess you see where its going.

All in all I agree that NBs are OP atm but I cant agree with this spreadsheet.

I'm continuing working on the spread sheet to compare each classes sustain/hard cc/soft cc capabilties/damage potential and max stat passives. So yes, it is incomplete but the thing is, NB excels at in nearly all of these departments due to extremely cohesive skill and passive interaction.

And you can say that I shouldn't have listed major expedition 5 times for Nightblade. Perhaps instead, Nightblade shouldn't have 5 different skills that give them access to major expedition and I wouldn't need to. (ESPECIALLY when you consider that templar and sorc have 0 access to major expedition through class skills and DK gets a measley 2s on chains.)

Dont forget qll the nbs snares that seem to stack with certain other skills

genjutsu_kami · May 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

No one ever says "they had too many nightblades".

But too many DKs and the biggie of too many templars are the real issues.

Templars are, by far, the most effective RvR class, and it's by a huge margin.

wait what ?? I'm not sure about this dude i have a templar and yes its strong solo class to run about in cyridil but i wouldn't say its the best

Satiar · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ehh....

I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.

As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.

That said, I am finally rolling a DK.

Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.

In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-

No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.

Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack

The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.

This is not a logical argument.

Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).

What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?

And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.

Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.

And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.

And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.

But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.

Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?

Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.

As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.

I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.

Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.

RinaldoGandolphi · May 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

Psychotius wrote: »

Well, NB's are extremely squishy when caught out in the open. The other classes are more resilient to damage, even without the number of buffs that NB's can take advantage of.

This. We are soft, especially in full light. Yes we can cloak but it is painfully broken right now and with everyone addicted to detection pots-you have to be really fast and sneaky to get out of a tough situation. Thus we are hardly OP. I consider OP the folks running around in god mode who can take 20+ players spamming damage on them for 30-45 seconds with no visible reduction of health. We all know who these guise are. We have all seen them.

Also @RinaldoGandolphi, I think even Fengrush would agree he was asking for that attack. He was standing around in the thick of several AD, taunting them and didn't seem to really be trying to stay alive. I can't even believe you of all people are crying about Nb's.

@God_flakes

Im not crying about Nightblades in particular, im talking about how Stealth damage in general in this game is broken Stam .DK with Molten Arms can one shot people from stealth too, its just more common and easier to do on a Stam Blade.

Magic Nightblade is actually pretty balanced, its the stamina Nightblade that has this insane burst one piecing people.

rfennell_ESO · May 2016

genjutsu_kami wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

No one ever says "they had too many nightblades".

But too many DKs and the biggie of too many templars are the real issues.

Templars are, by far, the most effective RvR class, and it's by a huge margin.

wait what ?? I'm not sure about this dude i have a templar and yes its strong solo class to run about in cyridil but i wouldn't say its the best

I'm 100% absolutely not talking about solo classes.

Just saying that right now in Cyrondil the most powerful class in RvR is templar, of either the stamina or magicka variant.

A point to be made about lists... they are selective as to what the list-er wishes to choose to put on them or the subject they deal with.

Does it cover the fact that a nightblade can't heal well, doesn't have many good synergies for group play or that the only true advantage they have is from stealth? No is hides those things in some sort of attempt to paint them as OP with a list.

True Bias is hidden by the power of editorial.

Jules · May 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ehh....

I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.

As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.

That said, I am finally rolling a DK.

Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.

In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-

No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.

Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack

The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.

This is not a logical argument.

Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).

What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?

And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.

Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.

And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.

And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.

But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.

Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?

Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.

As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.

I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.

Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.

The purpose was not to say hey, everyone run reapers mark in Cyrodiil its super good and totally viable.

The purpose was to crack this "nb's have no burst heals" theory wide open.
And if we're being real with ourselves, though reapers mark is never used, healing ward, vigor/rally are. And they are more than viable.

But if you really wanna break it down-

Burst heal.

Burst = strong
Heal = restoring health

Sorry nbs, but reapers mark fills that quota when it heals you for 60% of your max health after a kill. You can call it unconventional, you can say it's not viable in Cyrodiil. Sure, I'll give you that, it's probably not. But please do not say it doesn't exist, because it does. It's really not even that much of a stretch to be honest. Through the history of this game, wackier things have been tried. And the opposite morph of Piercing Mark is also a heal on kill, just for less.

Steve, you've played a lot of time on NB and a very little amount of time on other classes. How can you possibly say a class isn't OP when you haven't even dabbled with the others to have anything to compare it to? Play the others and come back to me after when you see what the rest of the classes play like. Cause for now, you sound like a biased nightblade trying to defend his class just like all the others.

Satiar · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ehh....

I'd actually agree with the poster above that Stamplar is the best right now. Those guys are insane.

As to Nightblades themselves, I've found the majority of the buffs listed really don't mean or do much. I've played a Nord nightblade for a very long time, and played it to a high level, meaning my passives only just offset the loss of resources my passives give me. I've found the most reliably OP part of a nightblade is not the passives or the minor buffs, but Siphoning Attacks. I could really give a damn about all the other things listed.... SA allows a Nightblade to stack large amounts of damage and not care about regen.

That said, I am finally rolling a DK.

Stam NB is an infinitely more developed stam class than Stamplar.

In comparison to NB, Stamplar has-

No gap closer.
No single target instant cast.
No ultimate.
No empower.
No hard cc.
No major fracture.

Major Resolve and Ward are earned by dropping a restoring focus vs. Using 1 surprise attack

The one thing they have over NB is Major Mending. And that is all.

This is not a logical argument.

Nightblades lack burst heals and shields. If you'd like to branch out into weapon and other skill lines than we have more options, but that doesn't favor your argument as that begins to add the missing pieces to the other classes (gap closers, stuns, ultimates, etc).

What makes a Nightblade a killing machine is a combination of Cloak, Fear and arguably Siphoning Attacks. That's literally it. Everything else is just gravy. If you don't get that than you don't get Nightblade. We can't burst heal like Templars, we can't shield ourselves to the sky like Sorcs and streak around, and.... well I think we're plain better than DKs in 1v1s but DKs get some advantages that really even the playing field in group play and are STUPID tanky. Buff DKs, I guess?

And Jules, for the love of god. I get you play a lot of classes but you're fairly disrespectful to people in here, some of whom have played the class two years longer than you.

Reapers mark heals you for 60% of your max health when you kill an enemy. This does not equate to a "lacking" burst heal. Sure, it's situational and requires killing. Alas, similarly, crit surge for sorcs also functions in this way. It gives you heals for the damage you inflict.

And you can have played nb for longer, but if you think cloak fear and siphoning attacks are the ONLY things that make a nb a killing machine, then I honestly don't know what you've been learning. Nearly every ability is buffed with damage through passives, nearly every ability is either a stun, snare or minor/major maim. Nearly every ability when compared with the equivalent of other classes does more damage and applies more effectives passively.

And you can say I've been disrespectful, however that is not the intent. I disagreed with you on stamplar being stronger and I have a plethora of proof to back that up. Disagreeing with you and saying your argument is illogical is not being disrespectful.

But perhaps other things I've said have been. And for that I am sorry. But when nbs come here telling me "we're not op because XYZ and you're biased and you're toxic and you're crying" and on and on and on, I'm gonna have to call BS. All of these things are merely deflection from the true issue, that nightblade is outperforming the other three classes, and no one wants to bite the bullet and just admit it.

Jules you must stop this madness, stuff like this ruins your credibility when it comes to Nightblades. Reapers Mark a burst heal? For effing real?

Can I hit it when I'm low health to save myself? No? Than its not a burst heal. It's an order of magnitude worse than GDB, it's worse than Rapid Regen because at least Rapid Regen BURST HEALS me for 2k. Do you remember playing Nightblade before vigor and rally? No. I did. Plenty of videos to go with it. Back when my only self heal was Devouring Swarn I still didn't use reapers Mark because when you don't have heals you don't waste bar slots and valuable magica on nonsense.

As to the rest, again, the rest is gravy. You don't fight a nightblade and think "awwww naw he's gonna Major Fracture me!" or "I hope he doesn't have his OP minor brutality up cuz than I'm done for!" You should be concerned about SA functioning like an extra 1k stat regen, worried about fear draining your stamina or CCing you at just the wrong time, worried about a cloak ruining your big damage combo and letting him reposition for a big damage burst of his own. These are skills that make NBs tick on Stam or magica, core class skills that matter. On my Stam blade I don't even run most listed buffs because I can't spare bar space or magica.

I can't imagine what prompted you to make this thread on such a flimsy premise. Next time you want Nightblades Nerfed ask me and I'll give you a list. That way you won't accidentally get our "burst heal" Nerfed for being too OP or something.

Luv u Jules but that post was nonsense, and the original post doesn't do anything more than show Nightblades have good versatility. If you really want them Nerfed, look at the big ticket items.

The purpose was not to say hey, everyone run reapers mark in Cyrodiil its super good and totally viable.
The purpose was to crack this "nb's have no burst heals" theory wide open.
And if we're being real with ourselves, though reapers mark is never used, healing ward, vigor/rally are. And they are more than viable.

But if you really wanna break it down-

Burst heal.

Burst = strong
Heal = restoring health

Sorry nbs, but reapers mark fills that quota when it heals you for 60% of your max health after a kill. You can call it unconventional, you can say it's not viable in Cyrodiil. Sure, I'll give you that, it's probably not. But please do not say it doesn't exist, because it does. It's really not even that much of a stretch to be honest. Through the history of this game, wackier things have been tried. And the opposite morph of Piercing Mark is also a heal on kill, just for less.

Steve, you've played a lot of time on NB and a very little amount of time on other classes. How can you possibly say a class isn't OP when you haven't even dabbled with the others to have anything to compare it to? Play the others and come back to me after when you see what the rest of the classes play like. Cause for now, you sound like a biased nightblade trying to defend his class just like all the others.

Crack "the no burst heal theory" wide open? By using Reapers Mark. Are you insane? It exists in the same way a theoretical foot on top on your head exists: no one wants it and it doesn't do anything useful. But sure. We have a burst heal. Great detective work Jules.

Flat out, you arguing that Reapers Mark is a burst heal is something I never expected from you, you're smarter than that.

As for me defending Nightblade because I'm biased, I'm not the one grasping at straws and pedantically arguing the definition of "burst heal" to try to make my point. And no, I haven't played Sorc and Templar but I play with and against the better ones left in this game, I have a decent idea of where they're at.

Also I'm going DK as my next main so uh, not particularly invested in whatever nerfs you're fishing for. But yeah. I dislike wrong arguments about a class I've played at a competitive level since launch. Get back to me when you actually understand how and why a Nightblade functions, I don't need to play sorc to know how a Nightblade works. If you want to understand it better, play it more. If a Nightblade came into my guild and started telling me this stuff I'd have a sit down and realign his perspective on how to play one.

Id start by taking Reapers Mark off his bar and telling him to befriend a good healing Templar

Ragnaroek93 · May 2016

I pretty much agree on everything that @DDuke says, he explained it very well. And as someone who actually played against him I'm pretty sure that he is far better than the rest of the people posting here (well, let us exclude Derra here

) so please stop trying to explain him how to play (or come back after you won against him as a Stamblade).

@Jules you have a Stamdk (Redguard !!!!) and this class is on top of PvP right now, please stop trying to get Nightblades destroyed. The arguments you made aren't fair and if Nightblades get nerfed even more I (and a lot of Nightblade players) will just reroll to Stamdk. I would trade my broken cloak every time against Major Mending. I'm sure that nobody who is crying about Nightblades actually played the class by themself against good Stamdks or Temps.
There is a reason that the last tournament (on EU) was dominated by Stamdks and not by Stamblades. And with Redguard you can just go Tristat Food and Clever Alchemist and still have enough sustain with that insane broken racial passive and Battleroar. To be fair, Redguard is the thing which makes Stamdk broken in my opinion and I would listen if you wouldn't play Redguard. But with Redguarddk you have really no right to complain about balance.

And to your problem with Surprise Attack: How is Heroic Slash worse than Surprise Attack? It gives a snare, ult regen, reduces the dmg of the target by 15% and deals pretty good dmg.
I can just say go on EU server and fight some good Redguard Stamina Dks as a Stamblade. I wish you much luck and fun surprise attacking through 5k vigor ticks

But yeah, it takes just a few videos and bit whining from a popular streamer and half of the ESO world thinks that Dk sucks while the opposite is the case.

EsoRecon · May 2016

@Jules still going on about nightblades? And I can't believe you said I didn't know my own class... That REALLY hurt me

L2P

Jules · May 2016

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I pretty much agree on everything that @DDuke says, he explained it very well. And as someone who actually played against him I'm pretty sure that he is far better than the rest of the people posting here (well, let us exclude Derra here ) so please stop trying to explain him how to play (or come back after you won against him as a Stamblade).

@Jules you have a Stamdk (Redguard !!!!) and this class is on top of PvP right now, please stop trying to get Nightblades destroyed. The arguments you made aren't fair and if Nightblades get nerfed even more I (and a lot of Nightblade players) will just reroll to Stamdk. I would trade my broken cloak every time against Major Mending. I'm sure that nobody who is crying about Nightblades actually played the class by themself against good Stamdks or Temps.
There is a reason that the last tournament (on EU) was dominated by Stamdks and not by Stamblades. And with Redguard you can just go Tristat Food and Clever Alchemist and still have enough sustain with that insane broken racial passive and Battleroar. To be fair, Redguard is the thing which makes Stamdk broken in my opinion and I would listen if you wouldn't play Redguard. But with Redguarddk you have really no right to complain about balance.

And to your problem with Surprise Attack: How is Heroic Slash worse than Surprise Attack? It gives a snare, ult regen, reduces the dmg of the target by 15% and deals pretty good dmg.
I can just say go on EU server and fight some good Redguard Stamina Dks as a Stamblade. I wish you much luck and fun surprise attacking through 5k vigor ticks

But yeah, it takes just a few videos and bit whining from a popular streamer and half of the ESO world thinks that Dk sucks while the opposite is the case.

1. I have no idea who you are but I have 2 DK's. One is a Dunmer (EP) and one is an Imperial (DC). So whatever you're saying about me having a redguard StamDK is just misinformed as I do not.

2. "5k vigor ticks" are a flat out lie. Simple major mending in a traditional 5 hundings-1 bloodspawn-1kena-3 agility-Maelstrom weapons does not make this even close to possible on live or PTS. Nothing makes this possible short of maybe running the ritual stone and using a powered weapon near a keep.

3. I am NOT trying to destroy nightblades. This is just a kneejerk ridiculous reaction to me saying that the NB class has too much access to buffs that other classes do not have. Balance is not the destruction of classes. I would NEVER want what happened to magicka DK's to happen to ANY class. That series of nerfs over 2015 completely decimated the class and I have more respect for NB's than to make any attempt to gut them like that. However, I will continue to say that they are overperforming in relation to their counterparts because I believe this to be true for a number of reasons, especially when the DB patch goes live.

4. I have no idea what you mean when you say "get nightblades nerfed even more" --- were you asleep when NB's just got Incap strike, Killers Blade, Relentless Focus and Power Extraction all as viable stam morphs this update? Come on man. That's just so delusional I can't even.

ku5h · May 2016

Yea entire forum is delusional, only you see it right!

EatUrNumNumz · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Agree 100% and I my first character/former main is a Nightblade.
+1 to Jules

rfennell_ESO · May 2016

I wonder what the leaderboards look like.

According to the logic to this thread they should be all nightblades atop them. I mean they have the best buffs, so they are "the best" right?

Reality doesn't seem to match the hype it seems.

Metrics count.. conjecture doesn't.

Maelstrom arena from 1 to 98 are ALL dks. Weekly leaderboard, all dks.

PVP haderus, they MUST all be nightblades based on the irrefutable evidence presented... but lo and behold it's not like that at all. P.S. it never really is.

So other than possibly available buffs, what do nightblades lead in that can be measured? My guess is nerf nightblade threads.