Official Feedback Thread for Veteran Rank Removal

exiledtyrant · May 2016

I am really glad about the gold zone changes. Before the last three big updates it could be argued that ESO was heading in a direction that promoted pay to progress in the extreme.

The best in slot DPS 2 piece (Molag Kena) for a large portion of builds was lock behind a DLC.
The best in slot weapons for a lot of builds again were locked behind a DLC in VMA
Max level crafting materials were made practically inaccessible to those who only use the base game
Base game exp was lowered due to the VR level hike of VR 14-16 completely ruining every gold zone farming area. The only VR 14 area that didn't operate under a reduced EXP penalty being Cryodil which forced PvE in a PvP zone.

Honestly it was looking bad, but now with the last 3 updates or so of changes this game has really turned around.

DLC Monster set pieces can be gained from the PvP vendor on weekends ( albeit still slowly, but at least achievable).
Max level crafting materials can be deconned from the dungeon finder items, Cyrodil now rotates in max level crafting nodes, and hirelings can drop off max level ingredients.
Gold Zones will finally give relevant PvE exp in its PvE areas again.

Little by little it feels like the playing field has been leveled for players coming right out of the base game. I will note that while testing some of the drops in my Gold level zone items weren't all matching CP160. Animals still dropped CP 140 scraps in a CP 160 zone. CP 140 weapons and armor still dropped in a CP 160 zone. Crafting nodes are still set to CP 140 materials. On the plus side mobs did give good exp and they did drop CP 160 glyphs.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

Silver content:

Khenarthi's Roost - CP40
Auridon - CP40
Grahtwood - CP70
Greenshade - CP100
Malabal Tor - CP130
Reaper's March - CP150

Gold Content:

Bleakrock Isle - CP160
Stonefalls - CP160
Deshaan - CP160
Shadowfen - CP160
Eastmarch - CP160
The Rift - CP160

and out of curiosity i went to Craglorn

Craglorn - CP110

right...wondering if it'll change tho cause of the changes to gold and the trial

Enodoc · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

Silver content:

Khenarthi's Roost - CP40
Auridon - CP40
Grahtwood - CP70
Greenshade - CP100
Malabal Tor - CP130
Reaper's March - CP150

Gold Content:

Bleakrock Isle - CP160
Stonefalls - CP160
Deshaan - CP160
Shadowfen - CP160
Eastmarch - CP160
The Rift - CP160

and out of curiosity i went to Craglorn

Craglorn - CP110

right...wondering if it'll change tho cause of the changes to gold and the trial

@NewBlacksmurf Which changes are you referring to there? Are there more things to be changed beyond what is on PTS?

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

Silver content:

Khenarthi's Roost - CP40
Auridon - CP40
Grahtwood - CP70
Greenshade - CP100
Malabal Tor - CP130
Reaper's March - CP150

Gold Content:

Bleakrock Isle - CP160
Stonefalls - CP160
Deshaan - CP160
Shadowfen - CP160
Eastmarch - CP160
The Rift - CP160

and out of curiosity i went to Craglorn

Craglorn - CP110

right...wondering if it'll change tho cause of the changes to gold and the trial

@NewBlacksmurf Which changes are you referring to there? Are there more things to be changed beyond what is on PTS?

I was asking really for ESO live but that and my other questions were not answered.
I'm just curious what other Craglorn changes are coming or planned due to the trial change.
Craglorn is now below gold content which is a change but one trial isn't.

code65536 · May 2016

exiledtyrant wrote: »

I am really glad about the gold zone changes. Before the last three big updates it could be argued that ESO was heading in a direction that promoted pay to progress in the extreme.
The best in slot DPS 2 piece (Molag Kena) for a large portion of builds was lock behind a DLC.

The best in slot weapons for a lot of builds again were locked behind a DLC in VMA

Max level crafting materials were made practically inaccessible to those who only use the base game

Base game exp was lowered due to the VR level hike of VR 14-16 completely ruining every gold zone farming area. The only VR 14 area that didn't operate under a reduced EXP penalty being Cryodil which forced PvE in a PvP zone.

Honestly it was looking bad, but now with the last 3 updates or so of changes this game has really turned around.
DLC Monster set pieces can be gained from the PvP vendor on weekends ( albeit still slowly, but at least achievable).

Max level crafting materials can be deconned from the dungeon finder items, Cyrodil now rotates in max level crafting nodes, and hirelings can drop off max level ingredients.

Gold Zones will finally give relevant PvE exp in its PvE areas again.

Little by little it feels like the playing field has been leveled for players coming right out of the base game. I will note that while testing some of the drops in my Gold level zone items weren't all matching CP160. Animals still dropped CP 140 scraps in a CP 160 zone. CP 140 weapons and armor still dropped in a CP 160 zone. Crafting nodes are still set to CP 140 materials. On the plus side mobs did give good exp and they did drop CP 160 glyphs.

The harvestables in the Gold zones are still what they originally were. So for the first two gold zones, you'll still be getting CP70-80 mats like Mahogany and Quicksilver. Only in the later Gold zones are they Void mats.

With the large number of people who will be at CP150/160 and with the greater ease of reaching that level, the crafting mats in Gold really should be scaled up, too.

NTclaymore · May 2016

I just got my charrecters from the EU servers and my former V4 that is a 160c now is missing skillpoints and attribute points..

Mettaricana · May 2016

Asayre wrote: »

I found the removal of vet rank rather frustrating because
1. Your 'Level' which is used to determine ability cost and resistance calculations changes during the first 160 CP and then abruptly stops without any indication to the player. With the previous veteran system, I intuitively expected game mechanics to change with each veteran level but this is not the case with the PTS system.
2. Champion point is an overloaded word now. It can mean the number of champion points you have, or your 'Level' for game mechanics (up to 160), the level of gear you can use or the level of the monster.

But I do appreciate the ability to rapidly get an alt to endgame without having to go through the V1 to V16 leveling process.

I finally got a nb to lvl 50 so I can finally skip silver and gold plated crap. And my templar vr 2 I can use right along side my vr 16s. Rather than saying to my friends hey I made a new char ill join you on *insert vet dungeon name* in 5 months because of family life work and vet grind balances. ..

ArvenAldmeri · May 2016

So... is it normal that I got no skill points and no attribute points on any of my VR alts?

Jesh · May 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
There is still a major problem with the zones and the way they are leveled: too many instances.
There should only be 2 instances of every base game zone: the 1 to 50 original Alliance locked zone, and a Veteran scaled zone available for anyone in any Alliance (use the vet normal toggle for your original zones for example). AND there should only be one scaled Craglorn where all alliances can intermingle (not 3 separate zones).
Right now as it works, the Gold and Silver and Craglorn are miserable ghost towns. Scale them, allow people from different alliances to play together, and bob's your uncle, these Zones will be reinvigorated!
Please do something like this. Gold and Silver are so sad I cant bring myself to go there. I actually cannot find enough people in Craglorn to quest with in order to finish it! (Hew's Bane also empty for some reason..?)

Enodoc · May 2016

Jesh wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel
There is still a major problem with the zones and the way they are leveled: too many instances.
There should only be 2 instances of every base game zone: the 1 to 50 original Alliance locked zone, and a Veteran scaled zone available for anyone in any Alliance (use the vet normal toggle for your original zones for example). AND there should only be one scaled Craglorn where all alliances can intermingle (not 3 separate zones).
Right now as it works, the Gold and Silver and Craglorn are miserable ghost towns. Scale them, allow people from different alliances to play together, and bob's your uncle, these Zones will be reinvigorated!
Please do something like this. Gold and Silver are so sad I cant bring myself to go there. I actually cannot find enough people in Craglorn to quest with in order to finish it! (Hew's Bane also empty for some reason..?)

Completely agree. I suggested this right back when they first announced VR removal.

Spero · May 2016

So, I've been away from this game for a while.

Back at the PS4 launch, I was giddy with excitement, played through the game, beat Molag Bal and hit Veteran Rank 1. Now, let me explain how I got to level 50 in the first place. As an avid PvP player, I spent basically all of my time in Cyrodiil, sieging my way up levels, and stopping when the war would calm down to do some PvE and level more effectively. You wouldn't believe how excited I was to hit 50. So many exciting things! I'd get to finish the main story, get my first champion point, and experience Veteran PvP.

I frowned a little at the poor explanation of Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but overlooked it. Not a big deal, right? After sinking a day or two into Veteran PvP and the new zone I'd been allowed into, I started to lose energy. All the PvPers were VR16 with such efficient builds that it was impractical to attempt to fight them as a VR1. With PvE, I'd felt like everything I'd done in the world was useless. The characters I'd impacted and things I'd done were ignored. Hold on, don't worry, I'm getting to the point.

It frustrated me. So, I grinded a bit more, made it to VR2, and got the quest to go to Craglorn. I was excited, like really excited. Made my way over there as fast as I could, pounded out the story opener, and got hooked. Constellations? Spirits? My god, was I excited. Until I realized that I couldn't kill an alligator with my stats. I was too low level for the location. That was the nail in the coffin. After reading up and hearing that they planned to eventually remove Veteran Ranks, I uninstalled the game (PS4 doesn't have much space) and signed up for the newsletter, intending to return when the Veteran Ranks were removed. So, I'm back. But, by reading through these posts, I can tell it won't be for long.

Why? Because. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. As I, and many others here, have noted, the other real change is that now your bloody vertical progression is account wide. Were I to find the game now and play it through, I'd hit the same hump I did before. All I'd wanted from this change was the freedom to play the end game I wanted to play. To...

*sigh* It's too late now for the changes we want. To properly change the game, to make it about skill and not stats, you'd have to even the field. Bring Vets down to 50, and balance everything around new skills and new traits instead of a higher level. So, instead of adding more levels you add more viable gear and skill lines, like you've been doing. That way the new strategies and passives are just as viable as the old ones. But that can't happen. VR16s can't give up on all they've grinded, it wouldn't be fair.

That's the problem. The system can never NOT be like Veteran Ranks because once you insert a second form of vertical progression you can't go back. And I guess neither am I.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Spero wrote: »

So, I've been away from this game for a while.

Back at the PS4 launch, I was giddy with excitement, played through the game, beat Molag Bal and hit Veteran Rank 1. Now, let me explain how I got to level 50 in the first place. As an avid PvP player, I spent basically all of my time in Cyrodiil, sieging my way up levels, and stopping when the war would calm down to do some PvE and level more effectively. You wouldn't believe how excited I was to hit 50. So many exciting things! I'd get to finish the main story, get my first champion point, and experience Veteran PvP.

I frowned a little at the poor explanation of Cadwell's Silver and Gold, but overlooked it. Not a big deal, right? After sinking a day or two into Veteran PvP and the new zone I'd been allowed into, I started to lose energy. All the PvPers were VR16 with such efficient builds that it was impractical to attempt to fight them as a VR1. With PvE, I'd felt like everything I'd done in the world was useless. The characters I'd impacted and things I'd done were ignored. Hold on, don't worry, I'm getting to the point.

It frustrated me. So, I grinded a bit more, made it to VR2, and got the quest to go to Craglorn. I was excited, like really excited. Made my way over there as fast as I could, pounded out the story opener, and got hooked. Constellations? Spirits? My god, was I excited. Until I realized that I couldn't kill an alligator with my stats. I was too low level for the location. That was the nail in the coffin. After reading up and hearing that they planned to eventually remove Veteran Ranks, I uninstalled the game (PS4 doesn't have much space) and signed up for the newsletter, intending to return when the Veteran Ranks were removed. So, I'm back. But, by reading through these posts, I can tell it won't be for long.

Why? Because. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. As I, and many others here, have noted, the other real change is that now your bloody vertical progression is account wide. Were I to find the game now and play it through, I'd hit the same hump I did before. All I'd wanted from this change was the freedom to play the end game I wanted to play. To...

*sigh* It's too late now for the changes we want. To properly change the game, to make it about skill and not stats, you'd have to even the field. Bring Vets down to 50, and balance everything around new skills and new traits instead of a higher level. So, instead of adding more levels you add more viable gear and skill lines, like you've been doing. That way the new strategies and passives are just as viable as the old ones. But that can't happen. VR16s can't give up on all they've grinded, it wouldn't be fair.

That's the problem. The system can never NOT be like Veteran Ranks because once you insert a second form of vertical progression you can't go back. And I guess neither am I.

@Spero

Exactly!!

estera · May 2016

Some general feedback on gold and silver zones scaling.

For my character mobs are scaled to CP160 but crafting nodes are not scaled, so resources I can harvest in these scaled zones are lower than my character's champion rank (CP160) and crafting skills (9/10).
"Leather" resources collected from mobs seems to be scaled to character's crafting skill.

If crafting nodes scaling is applied to gold/silver zones with cap at voidstone/void cloth/nightwood it will allow to harvest some useful resources in scaled gold/silver zones.

Enodoc · May 2016

estera wrote: »

Some general feedback on gold and silver zones scaling.

For my character mobs are scaled to CP160 but crafting nodes are not scaled, so resources I can harvest in these scaled zones are lower than my character's champion rank (CP160) and crafting skills (9/10).
"Leather" resources collected from mobs seems to be scaled to character's crafting skill.

If crafting nodes scaling is applied to gold/silver zones with cap at voidstone/void cloth/nightwood it will allow to harvest some useful resources in scaled gold/silver zones.

@estera Silver and Gold zones aren't scaled, they're fixed. So the resources aren't scaled either.

Fudly_budly · May 2016

after reading 6 pages of comments on vet rank removal:
1. My soon to be cp 60 main will still be nothing but an alliance point meat bag in pvp.
2. Cadwell's ghost town zones remain solo hell.
3. Continue to be laughed at when hanging around Undaunted Camp.
4. I will keep working on that highly-prized fishing achievement. While,
5. Look for another game to play.

Fudly_budly · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

Silver content:

Khenarthi's Roost - CP40
Auridon - CP40
Grahtwood - CP70
Greenshade - CP100
Malabal Tor - CP130
Reaper's March - CP150

Gold Content:

Bleakrock Isle - CP160
Stonefalls - CP160
Deshaan - CP160
Shadowfen - CP160
Eastmarch - CP160
The Rift - CP160

right...wondering if it'll change tho cause of the changes to gold and the trial

So, if these are the new levels for Cadwell's Gold, my current main VR 6 on the last zone of Silver (currently a VR 5 zone) is about to roll into an impossible Cadwell's Gold?

Is that right? Let's see: VR 6 becomes CP 60 right? Now, I'll be soloing against NPC's 100 CPs stronger than me?

Mulcibur · May 2016

@Asayre Seen any feedback from ZOS on skills costing so much more on the PTS than on Live? I haven't seen any feedback and I believe you originally raised this somewhere. Was by like 10% or something?

I was wondering whether this is perhaps related to cost increases for skills now being based on CP after level 50. Perhaps someone with over 2000 CP would pay a lot more for a skill than someone with 501 CP because the scaling isn't capping at 160CP as intended? Just a thought.

Enodoc · May 2016

Fudly_budly wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

Silver content:

Khenarthi's Roost - CP40
Auridon - CP40
Grahtwood - CP70
Greenshade - CP100
Malabal Tor - CP130
Reaper's March - CP150

Gold Content:

Bleakrock Isle - CP160
Stonefalls - CP160
Deshaan - CP160
Shadowfen - CP160
Eastmarch - CP160
The Rift - CP160

right...wondering if it'll change tho cause of the changes to gold and the trial

So, if these are the new levels for Cadwell's Gold, my current main VR 6 on the last zone of Silver (currently a VR 5 zone) is about to roll into an impossible Cadwell's Gold?

Is that right? Let's see: VR 6 becomes CP 60 right? Now, I'll be soloing against NPC's 100 CPs stronger than me?

@Fudly_budly If you're currently VR6, surely you must have a good number of CPs already?

Asayre · May 2016

@Mulcibur, No I haven't seen any developer feedback with regards to the increased cost of abilities on the PTS. I don't think it's related to CP as the base abilities cost is still 10% higher on a 300 CP template as it was on my 501 character.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Fudly_budly wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

Silver content:

Khenarthi's Roost - CP40
Auridon - CP40
Grahtwood - CP70
Greenshade - CP100
Malabal Tor - CP130
Reaper's March - CP150

Gold Content:

Bleakrock Isle - CP160
Stonefalls - CP160
Deshaan - CP160
Shadowfen - CP160
Eastmarch - CP160
The Rift - CP160

right...wondering if it'll change tho cause of the changes to gold and the trial

So, if these are the new levels for Cadwell's Gold, my current main VR 6 on the last zone of Silver (currently a VR 5 zone) is about to roll into an impossible Cadwell's Gold?

Is that right? Let's see: VR 6 becomes CP 60 right? Now, I'll be soloing against NPC's 100 CPs stronger than me?

@Fudly_budly
In theory, yes they'd be 100 CP higher (not stronger )

It's what I'm getting at, CP means what actually for NPCs @ZOS_GinaBruno and @Wrobel

No one has any idea what CP means.
It's not even a VR meaning cause stat and skill points all are within level 50 and we don't know what happened to the VR base stat increases to player characters.

We don't know what changed in NPCs so it's hard to answer that but to say, CP shouldn't be used because it's far too inconsistent and not at all any logical means of measuring difficulty progression or viability as it doesn't relate from one to another or from one player to another.

Epona222 · May 2016

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Question: How do people receive their costumes for certain VR ranks? Skill and attribute points were explained, but not when the costumes would now be acquired.

Via mail. I got 2 mails on the PTS congratulating me for achieving CP160, and something was added to my collectibles. I have to assume it was the VR16 costume, and think the others will act in the same way.

Yes, BUT... on my 2nd NA account and my EU characters, who had only got highest level characters to VR7 (CP300+) and VR5 (CP200+) respectively, I ONLY got the CP160 costume awarded in each case. I did not get Mannimarco on my NA account, and I did not get Mannimarco AND Dark Seducer on my EU account (after character copy). So costumes are not currently being awarded retrospectively on the PTS - this needs to be fixed before it goes live.

Fudly_budly · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Fudly_budly wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

@Fudly_budly If you're currently VR6, surely you must have a good number of CPs already?

I must just be dense because i'm just not getting this but thanks for asking. My main vr6 has 60 points in each constellation (Thief, Mage, Warrior)...so 180 in total. I have a V1 alt with 30 in each and a low level alt with 12 in each. OK, so I get 2.5 cps/vet level gifted to me by zos when db goes live:
vr6 gets 15
vr1 gets 2 or 3?
low lvl gets none
now, I roll into Cadwell's gold with 195 on my main or 198 (acct wide cps)? Is that how this works? Funny, the more I type, the more confused I get.

Elsonso · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Question: How do people receive their costumes for certain VR ranks? Skill and attribute points were explained, but not when the costumes would now be acquired.

Via mail. I got 2 mails on the PTS congratulating me for achieving CP160, and something was added to my collectibles. I have to assume it was the VR16 costume, and think the others will act in the same way.

Yes, BUT... on my 2nd NA account and my EU characters, who had only got highest level characters to VR7 (CP300+) and VR5 (CP200+) respectively, I ONLY got the CP160 costume awarded in each case. I did not get Mannimarco on my NA account, and I did not get Mannimarco AND Dark Seducer on my EU account (after character copy). So costumes are not currently being awarded retrospectively on the PTS - this needs to be fixed before it goes live.

This is why I made sure to have one character at VR 16 prior to DB. Depending on ZOS to do something, and get it right, is risky.

Tevalaur · May 2016

Fudly_budly wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Fudly_budly wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

Daggerfall Character

@Fudly_budly If you're currently VR6, surely you must have a good number of CPs already?

I must just be dense because i'm just not getting this but thanks for asking. My main vr6 has 60 points in each constellation (Thief, Mage, Warrior)...so 180 in total. I have a V1 alt with 30 in each and a low level alt with 12 in each. OK, so I get 2.5 cps/vet level gifted to me by zos when db goes live:
vr6 gets 15
vr1 gets 2 or 3?
low lvl gets none
now, I roll into Cadwell's gold with 195 on my main or 198 (acct wide cps)? Is that how this works? Funny, the more I type, the more confused I get.

@Fudly_budly

Your ACCOUNT gets 15 CP gifted for having a (your highest) level VR6 character. You don't get anything extra for other VR characters.

So if you didn't play between now and launch (to gain any further levels on the VR6 or to gain more CP directly) you'd have 195 CP instead of 180 CP, and equivalent in gear ability to today's VR16 (highest gear will be CP 160).

Enodoc · May 2016

Fudly_budly wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

@Fudly_budly If you're currently VR6, surely you must have a good number of CPs already?

I must just be dense because i'm just not getting this but thanks for asking. My main vr6 has 60 points in each constellation (Thief, Mage, Warrior)...so 180 in total. I have a V1 alt with 30 in each and a low level alt with 12 in each. OK, so I get 2.5 cps/vet level gifted to me by zos when db goes live:
vr6 gets 15
vr1 gets 2 or 3?
low lvl gets none
now, I roll into Cadwell's gold with 195 on my main or 198 (acct wide cps)? Is that how this works? Funny, the more I type, the more confused I get.

OK cool. You highest character is all that's relevant here, as CPs are account-wide. So your highest is VR6, and your account has 180 CPs. After the VR removal, you will have 195 account-wide CPs, and so will be 35 CPs above the highest mob level.

Peekachu99 · May 2016

What's the deal with ability points? Sounds like any toons under V16 before the conversion are permanently out of points? That can't be right. Do we have confirmation that this is an error of some kind?

wayfarerx · May 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

What's the deal with ability points? Sounds like any toons under V16 before the conversion are permanently out of points? That can't be right. Do we have confirmation that this is an error of some kind?

All the VR ability and skill points will be earned from levels 1-50 after DB. No one will permanently miss points, there is no error.

MissBizz · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

estera wrote: »

Some general feedback on gold and silver zones scaling.

For my character mobs are scaled to CP160 but crafting nodes are not scaled, so resources I can harvest in these scaled zones are lower than my character's champion rank (CP160) and crafting skills (9/10).
"Leather" resources collected from mobs seems to be scaled to character's crafting skill.

If crafting nodes scaling is applied to gold/silver zones with cap at voidstone/void cloth/nightwood it will allow to harvest some useful resources in scaled gold/silver zones.

@estera Silver and Gold zones aren't scaled, they're fixed. So the resources aren't scaled either.

Except enchanting. Because it makes perfect logic for one craft not to follow the same guidelines. /sarcasm

@Peekachu99 To explain the point thing a bit more on top of what Wayfarer mentioned. If you are past levels where you SHOULD have earned double skill points or whatever, you will automatically receive those skill points and such as soon as you log in when DB goes live. This was confirmed by Eric Wrobel on the most recent ESO Live. So let's say you are currently VR6, you will currently (on live) still be getting 10 more skill points and attribute points (since you get them all the way to VR16). When you log on to the game after DB goes live, you will magically have 10 skill points and attribute points granted to you (since you now earn them in level 1-50 which you have already passed).

Aeaeren · May 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

What's the deal with ability points? Sounds like any toons under V16 before the conversion are permanently out of points? That can't be right. Do we have confirmation that this is an error of some kind?

From my understanding respeccing fixes this issue and gets you the extra points.

Highstake · May 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Im just posting here to get awesomes for being numbah 2

Useless answer. I'm sry, no personal offense meant, but u cant even read and understand properly a topic.