byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

"4. ZOS completely broke the FG skill line in cutting magicka toons out of the equation. Magicka relied upon that extra 9% passive dmg to undead/deadra in vCoH, vCoA, vWGT, vICP, IC, etc. Really bad move considering FG is about combating the undead. Dawnbreaker of Smiting needs to scale to magicka and Slayer needs to grant both weapon and spell dmg."


Indeed - but keeping the 9% damage but still having it linked to FG skills means it won't be used. Who is going to use Dawnbreaker in PvE trials etc???

I'm actually wondering, since fighter guild no longer universially applying to daedra and undead which they use to; could this be the reason why they have lowered the difficulty of ICP, WGT and COA in order to help people Inside that new context.

I mean de debuff isn't that big 4,5% domage for magika user but still, and now that expert hunter is no longer going to give that nice bonus to stamina user while fighting daedra... I'm kind of believing that's why we got dongeon nerf So it might end up not being a nerf, but just being a balance thingy

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The changes to Dawnbreaker are very disappointing.

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Why not keep the damage as magicka for Smiting, and make it physical damage from unmorphed and for Flawless?

In your attempt to rebalance Dawnbreaker for stamina users, you swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, and make this skill more or less useless for magicka users.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

Stamina guild buffing Stamina damage say it's not so. Also one gave you a weapon bonus and the other dealt more magic damage now you can have a general damage bonus or a most powerful ultimate. Now if you want to give up a Magic Guild ultimate for stamina damage then I'm all for it.

Point is Fighter's Guild buffing weapon is just like Mage's Guild passives buffing Spell damage. Fighter Guild = Stamina Mage's Guild = Magic.

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

It's actually max magika and magika regen for mage guild, also anyone who use magelight is receiving 7% more magika and 2% more magika regen + 10% crit, while someone who's using expert hunter is getting 3% weapon power + 10% crit... If you had to pick side at that point go ahead, but then ultimate comes into play.

Meteor is adding 2% max magika and 2% magika regen while Dawbreaker is giving (in one of his version) 8% more weapon power.

Which lead to a total bonus of 9% max magika +4% max regen for mage guild

And

11% weapon power for warrior guild

But this also suppose that you are always relying on your guild ultimate, other then that it's :

7% max magika +2% regen for the mage guild

and

3% more weapon power for the fighter guild...

So overall I like to think this is balance, magika user receive the biggest bonus from one skill while stamina user receive the best bonus from 2... that look fair. Also we have to believe that those skill are kind of equal because stam user have usually more weapon domage and magika user more ressources.

@Wrobel , I'm eager to see if you have adapt expert hunter skill line, and if you haven't I was wondering if you could make it an improve detection radius instead of revealing/preventing (does feel more fighter and since detection pots are not that common upon stamina build might end up being nice.

susmitds wrote: »

And Fighters' Guild is NOT an anti-undead and daedra guild. It is a mercenary guild same as the mages' guild. The anti-undead and daedra guild is the Dawnguard whose existence in the time of ESO is neither confirmed nor denied by lore.

Usually the Fighters Guild is a mercenary guild, but during the course of ESO, they have been contracted by an unknown benefactor and set singular purpose of being anti-Daedra:
Normally the guild offers contracts aplenty. Our new guildmaster, Sees-All-Colors? She has us all working to a singular purpose. The guild hunts the Daedra and their horrific Anchors!
Anti-Daedra is the Fighters Guild's "thing" in ESO, and code65536 is correct in saying that removing any anti-Daedra focus is counter to the established lore. But that doesn't mean that ZOS can't redefine the Fighters Guild lore for after the Planemeld is over, since the anti-Daedra thing is no longer directly relevant. I think they have even said as much themselves.

The Dawnguard are anti-Vampire, they don't care about Daedra. And the anti-Daedra faction of the Fourth Era in the Vigil of Stendarr.

susmitds wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

And what passive in Fighter's Guild buff Max stamina or stamina recovery?

code65536 wrote: »

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

"Flawless" is no longer too lucrative for stamina users, the extra damage of smiting is just as lucrative. Especially for Stamina NBs who already get 2% crit from Incap Strike slotted which is better DPS for crit based builds than 8% wep. dmg and also Soul harvest with which they can literally spam Dawnbreaker of Smiting over and over again.

And Fighters' Guild is NOT an anti-undead and daedra guild. It is a mercenary guild same as the mages' guild. The anti-undead and daedra guild is the Dawnguard whose existence in the time of ESO is neither confirmed nor denied by lore.

Never said there was but

Minalan wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The changes to Dawnbreaker are very disappointing.

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Why not keep the damage as magicka for Smiting, and make it physical damage from unmorphed and for Flawless?

In your attempt to rebalance Dawnbreaker for stamina users, you swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, and make this skill more or less useless for magicka users.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

Stamina guild buffing Stamina damage say it's not so. Also one gave you a weapon bonus and the other dealt more magic damage now you can have a general damage bonus or a most powerful ultimate. Now if you want to give up a Magic Guild ultimate for stamina damage then I'm all for it.

Point is Fighter's Guild buffing weapon is just like Mage's Guild passives buffing Spell damage. Fighter Guild = Stamina Mage's Guild = Magic.

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

You get an empower buff from casting a Mage guild ability at level 10. The others boost max Magicka if you slot more than one.

I still think they should leave the 'increase damage versus undead' passive in fighters guild. It's supposed to be training their people (all of them) to fight evil. Come on, it's one passive, it was a good one, and it wasn't tied to slotting any guild skills.

The werewolf damage passive was nice too, since with the buffs everyone is going to PLAY one, there should be a downside to it.

I've seen plenty of stam users use magelight to get the same empower buff its not a buff that specifically benefits magicka

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

And what passive in Fighter's Guild buff Max stamina or stamina recovery?

code65536 wrote: »

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

"Flawless" is no longer too lucrative for stamina users, the extra damage of smiting is just as lucrative. Especially for Stamina NBs who already get 2% crit from Incap Strike slotted which is better DPS for crit based builds than 8% wep. dmg and also Soul harvest with which they can literally spam Dawnbreaker of Smiting over and over again.

And Fighters' Guild is NOT an anti-undead and daedra guild. It is a mercenary guild same as the mages' guild. The anti-undead and daedra guild is the Dawnguard whose existence in the time of ESO is neither confirmed nor denied by lore.

Never said there was but

Minalan wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The changes to Dawnbreaker are very disappointing.

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Why not keep the damage as magicka for Smiting, and make it physical damage from unmorphed and for Flawless?

In your attempt to rebalance Dawnbreaker for stamina users, you swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, and make this skill more or less useless for magicka users.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

Stamina guild buffing Stamina damage say it's not so. Also one gave you a weapon bonus and the other dealt more magic damage now you can have a general damage bonus or a most powerful ultimate. Now if you want to give up a Magic Guild ultimate for stamina damage then I'm all for it.

Point is Fighter's Guild buffing weapon is just like Mage's Guild passives buffing Spell damage. Fighter Guild = Stamina Mage's Guild = Magic.

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

You get an empower buff from casting a Mage guild ability at level 10. The others boost max Magicka if you slot more than one.

I still think they should leave the 'increase damage versus undead' passive in fighters guild. It's supposed to be training their people (all of them) to fight evil. Come on, it's one passive, it was a good one, and it wasn't tied to slotting any guild skills.

The werewolf damage passive was nice too, since with the buffs everyone is going to PLAY one, there should be a downside to it.

I've seen plenty of stam users use magelight to get the same empower buff its not a buff that specifically benefits magicka

There are many Magicka players in the PTS who are still using Dawnbreaker to burst. Camo hunter is also used for the Minor Berserk

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

"4. ZOS completely broke the FG skill line in cutting magicka toons out of the equation. Magicka relied upon that extra 9% passive dmg to undead/deadra in vCoH, vCoA, vWGT, vICP, IC, etc. Really bad move considering FG is about combating the undead. Dawnbreaker of Smiting needs to scale to magicka and Slayer needs to grant both weapon and spell dmg."


Indeed - but keeping the 9% damage but still having it linked to FG skills means it won't be used. Who is going to use Dawnbreaker in PvE trials etc???

They cut Mage from a stamina line that's a great thing stamina builds being able to maximize a stamina three makes sense.

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The changes to Dawnbreaker are very disappointing.

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Why not keep the damage as magicka for Smiting, and make it physical damage from unmorphed and for Flawless?

In your attempt to rebalance Dawnbreaker for stamina users, you swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, and make this skill more or less useless for magicka users.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

Stamina guild buffing Stamina damage say it's not so. Also one gave you a weapon bonus and the other dealt more magic damage now you can have a general damage bonus or a most powerful ultimate. Now if you want to give up a Magic Guild ultimate for stamina damage then I'm all for it.

Point is Fighter's Guild buffing weapon is just like Mage's Guild passives buffing Spell damage. Fighter Guild = Stamina Mage's Guild = Magic.

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

Might of The Guild I call a 20% damage buff to a pure Mage line a magic buff plus entropy that's a 40% damage buff to which you turned around and dropped the fighters guild ultimate.

Now Dawnbreaker works for mages the way all other ultimate besides Leap worked for stamina builds. You will still get the damage buff to undead and Daedra but you have to have the passive and use powers

could give daedra damage to fighters and undead to mage. that way each gets a benefit while sticking to the lore. Fighter guild was hired to fight daedra in this game, so makes sense to give that to them. Mage guild is known for fighting vamps and necromancers which plays into the undead.

staracino_ESO wrote: »

Actually they could just add a Dawnguard skill line to handle the undead/daedra extra damage. Pretty sure they were around during the 2nd era.

I would rather see weapon ults, dB skills, and tg skills before they 8nrpduce another skill tree. It still irrayates me they don't have skills for either guild. It is basically saying that those 2 guilds are less important than mage an fighters.

susmitds wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

staracino_ESO wrote: »

Actually they could just add a Dawnguard skill line to handle the undead/daedra extra damage. Pretty sure they were around during the 2nd era.

I would rather see weapon ults, dB skills, and tg skills before they 8nrpduce another skill tree. It still irrayates me they don't have skills for either guild. It is basically saying that those 2 guilds are less important than mage an fighters.

That won't ever happen as people would cry pay to win.

You can say the same thing about gear that is bop in dlc. Easy way around would be allow people access to the skill line by completing a misc quest, but not the story line. Could be something like when you kill a person you activate the skill line or when you steal something you activate the skill line etc. This is a real disservice to arguably the two most popular guilds in the game.

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

"4. ZOS completely broke the FG skill line in cutting magicka toons out of the equation. Magicka relied upon that extra 9% passive dmg to undead/deadra in vCoH, vCoA, vWGT, vICP, IC, etc. Really bad move considering FG is about combating the undead. Dawnbreaker of Smiting needs to scale to magicka and Slayer needs to grant both weapon and spell dmg."


Indeed - but keeping the 9% damage but still having it linked to FG skills means it won't be used. Who is going to use Dawnbreaker in PvE trials etc???

They cut Mage from a stamina line that's a great thing stamina builds being able to maximize a stamina three makes sense.

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The changes to Dawnbreaker are very disappointing.

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Why not keep the damage as magicka for Smiting, and make it physical damage from unmorphed and for Flawless?

In your attempt to rebalance Dawnbreaker for stamina users, you swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, and make this skill more or less useless for magicka users.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

Stamina guild buffing Stamina damage say it's not so. Also one gave you a weapon bonus and the other dealt more magic damage now you can have a general damage bonus or a most powerful ultimate. Now if you want to give up a Magic Guild ultimate for stamina damage then I'm all for it.

Point is Fighter's Guild buffing weapon is just like Mage's Guild passives buffing Spell damage. Fighter Guild = Stamina Mage's Guild = Magic.

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

Might of The Guild I call a 20% damage buff to a pure Mage line a magic buff plus entropy that's a 40% damage buff to which you turned around and dropped the fighters guild ultimate.

Now Dawnbreaker works for mages the way all other ultimate besides Leap worked for stamina builds. You will still get the damage buff to undead and Daedra but you have to have the passive and use powers

It's a pure magic buff...... Radiant magelight??? Reveals hidden enemies, stops gankers, provides empower.... Pure magic your so right...

Then you are free to use Expert hunter from FG. They do the same but are not so useful.

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

"4. ZOS completely broke the FG skill line in cutting magicka toons out of the equation. Magicka relied upon that extra 9% passive dmg to undead/deadra in vCoH, vCoA, vWGT, vICP, IC, etc. Really bad move considering FG is about combating the undead. Dawnbreaker of Smiting needs to scale to magicka and Slayer needs to grant both weapon and spell dmg."


Indeed - but keeping the 9% damage but still having it linked to FG skills means it won't be used. Who is going to use Dawnbreaker in PvE trials etc???

They cut Mage from a stamina line that's a great thing stamina builds being able to maximize a stamina three makes sense.

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The changes to Dawnbreaker are very disappointing.

As it currently stands the "Smiting" morph is the de-facto magicka morph, since the slot bonus from the "Flawless" morph is just too lucrative for stamina users to ignore.

Why not keep the damage as magicka for Smiting, and make it physical damage from unmorphed and for Flawless?

In your attempt to rebalance Dawnbreaker for stamina users, you swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, and make this skill more or less useless for magicka users.

Furthermore, the removal of the bonus damage against Daedra and Undead is anti-lore (the Fighter's Guild is about fighting the Daedra and Undead) and makes this skill much less useful (for example, Dawnbreaker is the go-to ability in a dungeon like vICP, and now, there's absolutely no reason for a magicka user to use it instead of Meteor).

Stamina guild buffing Stamina damage say it's not so. Also one gave you a weapon bonus and the other dealt more magic damage now you can have a general damage bonus or a most powerful ultimate. Now if you want to give up a Magic Guild ultimate for stamina damage then I'm all for it.

Point is Fighter's Guild buffing weapon is just like Mage's Guild passives buffing Spell damage. Fighter Guild = Stamina Mage's Guild = Magic.

Lol wow and what passive in the mages guild buffs spell damage?????? I really wish to know cause I've never seen it?

Might of The Guild I call a 20% damage buff to a pure Mage line a magic buff plus entropy that's a 40% damage buff to which you turned around and dropped the fighters guild ultimate.

Now Dawnbreaker works for mages the way all other ultimate besides Leap worked for stamina builds. You will still get the damage buff to undead and Daedra but you have to have the passive and use powers

It's a pure magic buff...... Radiant magelight??? Reveals hidden enemies, stops gankers, provides empower.... Pure magic your so right...

Then you are free to use Expert hunter from FG. They do the same but are not so useful.

Hmm one problem here.... Your saying a stam user would not benefit at all from a little max magicka and mag regen???? I think they will, but when ever will a mag user benifit from more weapon damage?

Dw and 1h/s

vampires kinda got screwed by those who dont follow the starve and win trend.

having access to all the passives at stage 4 is what causes it to become meh.
as someone who used a vampire long term before i HAD to cure it due to lives 1shot vamp deaths becoming stupid common, having access to Dark Stalker and bats were the main reason i put up with it for so long and now it's basically if i want my speedy sneak passive i'v gotta starve anyways? while everything else is just ok at best.

should have just been:
stage 4 = ULTI cost reduction and not just bats cost reduction and 30% fire damage increase and a reduced health.
stage 1 = 0 ulti reduction and 0 fire damage weakness and a 10% bonus health regen.

gives you a reason to consider stage one as a mutagen stage or stage 4 as a fighting stage.

this is how i'v always considered ES vampires, superior mortals when well fed and looked after, deadly fighters when starved. none of this other nonsense of stealth if starved, taking more damage in a state of weakness etc, this is what kills the vampire changes for me, it's only a buff if your doing exactly what you did in live to begin with.

for others like myself who use vampire mainly for Dark stalker and access to bats (stam sorc so needed the devouring) so i feed. and often. now i'm nerfed for doing what i did to begin with cause it's outside the everyone no-breakfast club, i now lose my dark stalker passive, the main vampire perk that compelled me to use the curse to begin with.

Not sure if this is the right place to put this or not, but here it goes anyway.

As someone that enjoys PvE and PvP I'm tired of seeing one side suffer for the sake of the other, especially when you have battle spirit as a balancing tool. The recent changes to block are my focus on this post. As we know this all started with the loss of stam regen while blocking for everyone everywhere to stop permablocking in PvP, instead of doing it through battle spirit. I can only assume, since I'm on console, the recent CP change was made for the same reason, when reducing the effectiveness of block cost reduction with battle spirit could achieve this w/o hurting PvE. The same could be said about changes to damage shields too, but that's another matter all together. Personally I believe blocking is broken and could use a different approach, though it's probably too late to see it this patch. Put back regen and remove or drastically reduce stam loss from blocking damage. If reducing cost make it relative to the damage blocked, or am I the only one that thinks it's messed up that a couple of light attacks from adds that came in while blocking a bosses one shot attack hit stam for that much? Now for the rub, the act of pressing block costs stam. This cost will be applied every two seconds block is held. This cost should be a percentage of max stamina. Reductions to this, via regen and block cost reduction, shouldn't allow the cost of holding block to reach 0%. I'm leaning toward 2% cap with reduced relative cost to blocking damage, though that may be to low. To prevent permablocking in PvP you can increase the cost at one, the other, or both costs to block. Just a thought. To be fair though, I sorta stole the idea from how ward spells worked in skyrim.

Ah pipe dreams

Quick thoughts on power bash and heavy armor.

I am not a fan of power bash loosing its cc. As I got back into eso I found myself using the skill for 2 things, the heal debuff (reverberating bash) and that cc. I don't care for the damage, at all. It is not a spam skill designed to damage enemies with, it it's on a weapon that provides the lowest melee range damage so if I wanted damage in melee I would go 2h or dual wield. One hand and shield is the defensive melee option, and the loss of that cc for a cheap, poor mans 'damage' skill hurts the weapon line and if this change goes in i'll be hard pressed to keep the skill on my bar at all. Can the base skill and reverberating bash at least keep their old style and for those who want damage you can keep the 'bonus damage after blocking' morph?

And about heavy armor. It needed more damage since the value of most every skill scales off of damage. That alone makes for a bland and uninspired meta as people have to push the same few attributes to have skills that do anything worth their time in battle. But that's another can of worms. Right now resistance is the only thing that's hard capped, and the cp for resistance (outside of the nice % resist to magic damages/stamina damages), the rest are poor. If I wear heavy armor it is to be able to take hits, but with how little that counts for and how much you need to use many skills in combat, light and medium offer everything you need. Cheaper, stronger, more effective skills. If I am wearing full heavy armor I want it to feel like my enemies have to work harder to damage me, not only that wearing heavy armor punishes my resources (in a game about maintaining resources, and on the armor type designed more for attrition). And it doesn't help that when fighting other players armor is so easy to just ignore, thus getting rid of the 'strengths' the armor provides.

Damage shields were never a problem, except to those that cry about how strong sorcerers are in PvP. What most don't realize however is that without those shields, sorcs can be 2-3 shot by almost any player regardless of their gear or level. However, the bigger issue is in PvE, sorcerers are already at the lowest rung of the DPS spectrum, aside from the few seconds of ult they get at the beginning of some fights. You've now FORCED the sorc class to even lower dps, lower survivability and created and even lower "want" for them in groups, despite all these having been thought to be as low as they could go.

Shields cant be used efficiently (cost far too much now) nor can they be used effectively (only giving 6 seconds of a remote sense of "maybe i wont die from these 2 enemies that will one shot me once my shields are down"). Leave the damage shields alone, they are not a problem, nor a solution, you just treat them as such.

Complete garbage, poorly thought out changes again, cant say i'm surprised. Way to follow the curve, devs.