Official Feedback Thread for Non-Class Changes

Taruha

Awh darn it! I only now noticed this! xD
I'll link you to my Role Play suggestion thread @ZOS_GinaBruno
And hope you take a look
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262804/role-players-suggestions#latest

lolo_01b16_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

World

• Vampire
  • Mist Form:
    • This ability and its morphs now remove previously applied snares and immobilizations, in addition to making you immune to any new ones while active.
    • Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 5%.
    • Updated the tooltip for this ability and its morphs to indicate it has always disabled your Magicka Recovery while active.

Current costs of Mistform (without any cost reduction): 4897
Cost of Mistform on PTS: 5940
Increase = (5940-4897)/4897 = 21.3%
Not exactly what I would call approximately 5% increase @ZOS_GinaBruno
Even if you consider the 10.8% cost increase that every skill got in exchange for fixed cost reduction passives, Mistform is more expensive than it should be due to patchnotes.

Caff32

F.Y.I. Bug report: When I put on the costume that comes with the Dark Brotherhood and I then equip the Vosh Rakh Mask hat, the face becomes blacked out.

staracino_ESO

I like the new buff that comes with Blood Altar, but I feel that it needs to have the cast time removed to be of any real effect in combat, especially PvP. The small radius and the cast time make it difficult to keep enemies in range if you are melee.

quadraxis666

Heavy Armor - Removal of Bracing

TL;DR Bracing removal very bad, take away Rapid Mending instead

Why on earth was this done? This is an absolutely awful change for tanks. I main a Stam DK Tank, Bracing was the only reason I stuck with it after the removal of block regen, hell, Bracing is the only reason to wear Heavy Armor period.

We've all seen the other posts in various threads detailing the resource losses caused by this even if we were to re-craft everything in the revamped sturdy trait, so I won't repeat them here.

When block regen was removed, I was forced to respec all attributes into stamina, this means I've gone with the stamina morphs of most abilities because if I'm switching clothes to pvp in medium armor I'm going to use abilities that scale off my highest resource pool. It also means most of my supporting abilities in the PVE Tank role are running off the same resource I need to block with. I throw out caltrops to snare as much trash as I can, use the melee taunt (pierce armor/ransack) as often as possible since it's cheaper resource-wise, only using the ranged taunt (I went with the magicka morph on this one since it's used less often and saves me some stamina) and using Unstable Flame (soon to be renamed Venomous Claw) as my occasional cast stacking DoT.

Stamina management is not a problem in this current setup because blocking is cheap and I only need to block the big hits. I should mention that I have 100 cp in Block Expert already to allow me to have elemental resistances on my jewellery.

On the PTS Myself and my 2 regular Sorc DPS guildies decided to do a dungeon to see how the new changes worked. We picked Wayrest since it's the easiest Vet dungeon and we didn't have a healer with us, and it was a different experience from live to say the least, bearing in mind this is a dungeon I have ran completely alone on live as a Tank (so it took a very long time with my non-existent DPS).
The First thing I noticed was how quickly my stamina was gone when I had a room full of zombie trash mobs wailing on me, I mean a bar of 30k stamina was just gone, and this is WITH 100 cp in Block Expert.
The second thing was where the hell are my DPS? Dead behind me because one or two hits from trash mobs ended them since their shields duration has been so severely nerfed.

We finished the dungeon, but it was not much fun. It was a frustrating exercise in having to further micro-manage my resources because now not only can I not regain stamina when I block, I'm lucky if I have enough stamina to re-apply taunts after 15 seconds of being beat on from a 30k pool! And the base block cost will be even higher on live!

What good is the new Wrath passive going to do if I have no resources left to do anything with it by the time it's built up enough to contribute in any meaningful way to the groups damage?

Me and my guildies are far from super elitist epeeners but we've all done every dungeon enough times to have every monster set several times over, VDSA and all that stuff. We know what we're doing.
The same can't be said for a huge number of Pug groups who struggle as things are NOW, so what will this do for random queues and pledges when it goes live?

If making dungeons challenging again was the goal of these changes you succeeded but the thing is I and everyone else knows these changes weren't made to restore the challenge to PVE, they were made to cater to PvP whiners who can't Wrecking Blow to death someone holding block or kill a sorc with a shield up.

I agree that Heavy Armor needed a buff to its damaging capabilities, but that should never have been at the expense of the one passive that made it worthwhile for the dying Tank role.

Bracing MUST remain in the Heavy Armor passives. Take away Rapid Mending and put Wrath there instead, Rapid mending is the truly useless passive Heavy Armor has that nobody will miss.

Sadly I believe this is yet another unwanted, hated change that Zos will push through regardless of the community's pleas, and one that further consigns Tanks to the scrapheap.

Blacksheepart

Maybe as a vampire i like to feed, maybe I like the CC in PVP and maybe just maybe I would like to keep my stalker ability. Stop changing my toons! First y'all changed my Templar and now my NB it's getting frustrating changing the whole ability, balance power I get it but these changes are making people adjust their whole character and play style.
I've only been playing since July and I find these changes frustrating and they're getting old; I can't imagine how some of the beta players feel.

Reorx_Holybeard

Unsure where this type of feedback belongs so I'll try here...

The change that prevents looting of corpses and drinking of potions while moving seems like a small thing but is *very* annoying. Chances are you won't notice it at first and just wonder why you didn't drink the potion or loot those corpses. There is no feedback (er, there may be a message for potions) that you cannot do these things while moving like you could of the past 2 years.

I hope this isn't the start of adding more things to the "not while moving" list. I enjoy the sort of dynamic game that ESO is and having to constantly stop moving for a second in order to complete actions is not a good thing.

susmitds

@Reorx_Holybeard Make a new thread and ask for justification.

Reorx_Holybeard

susmitds wrote: »

@Reorx_Holybeard Make a new thread and ask for justification.

Thanks....I may just do that. I know I saw someone else post about the issue in another thread somewhere but can't find it now anyways. Its one of those small issues that doesn't seem like a big deal until you have to live with it for a little while. I'm beginning to image my frustration when I have to loot 20 corpses after a veteran dungeon trash pull. Run-Stop-Loot x20...ugh!

ClockworkArc

I've been playing with Power Bash and it's morphs and it seems like there is a cast time to the skill now.

If you block or bash too quickly after casting it the move just doesn't fire. Not sure if that is a prioritization thing or what, but it doesn't feel like it should have a cast time.

Especially if we thing about the power slam morph granting damage after blocking. If we are in pvp and someone is wailing on you, you want to be damaging them and blocking fluidly. It feels clunky.

Jade1986

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO wrote: »

The overhual to the Heavy Armor passive Bracing into Wrath.

Wrath is REALLY nice I am enjoying the damage increase, but losing the 20% Block Cost reduction really hurt heavy armor. That passive was one of the the biggest reasons people used Heavy Armor to begin with.

Now Heavy Armor builds are almost forced into using Sturdy to get back that lost reduction. 7 Pieces of Gold Sturdy will give you 21% reduced block cost reduction. So after getting back the lost 20%...Sturdy is actually only benefiting the HA user by 1%. (Consider the player already has 100 points to Block Expertise.) So as far as block cost goes for Heavy Armor...there is no change, only a nerf.

This seems a little ridiculous considering the changes to Well-Fitted and how Medium Armor's Athletics Passive didn't change. So Medium armor suffers no loss to the cost of roll-dodge and can benefit immediately from using Well-Fitted as a trait. Medium Armor still also receives the base weapon damage buff (Agility Passive 12% increased weapon damage at Rank 2.) that no other armor passive had up until this patch, so the argument trade off damage for our block cost reduction doesn't seem valid considering Medium Armor has always had this passive and 12% of X Wep Dmg is, in most cases, way more that the fully stacked 200 of Wrath.

If anything, perhaps the Passive Rapid Mending could be changed into giving Heavy Armor it's 20% Block Cost Reduction back over the increased healing. That is the only suggestion that comes to mind.

HA needed sweeping buffs across the board, and then we get this with the nerf to blocking. I dont understand the world anymiore.

Yoyuyi999

Restore the CC on Reverb Bash. People used this ability for two things, 1. It's a close range stamina based CC and 2. a heal debuff.

Why would you buff this ability to be like a DPS ability when we already access to puncture and Heroic Slash? Not to mention they are a hell of a lot cheaper than reverb.

You guys claim the ability had too much controversy and was broken, yet you managed to fix it in Thieves Guild and you STILL removed it.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

@Wrobel @ZOS_Finn

Like the changes to Stalwart Guard, but have you considered that people will have a 2nd Tanky character in a trial use this to cast on the Main Tank holding agro on the hard-hitting boss? That way the Main Tank can still recover Stamina while also receiving a 30% damage reduction.

Not saying it should be nerfed/changed (if not considered) but it does influence zone balance. If so, it could influence group makeup.

Ra'Shtar

Do something with Fire Rune and Equilibrium from Mages Guild please, they are *** and now that you guys are touching guilds its the time GO!

STEVIL

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

Do something with Fire Rune and Equilibrium from Mages Guild please, they are *** and now that you guys are touching guilds its the time GO!

While i like fire rune, volcanic actually, i agree on equilibrium.
only time i ever thought about it was on my mag tem who can on occasions run low on mag but can heal like the banshee with jabs... but even then the 4 second thing cuts in,

its odd to me for a skill this high in the tree to be so "when can i ever use this??" i can understand a first opening skill being so-so by the time you reach end game but i expect final tier skills to be obviously useful in other cases even if not appropriate to your build.

GRYM.LOCKE

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@Wrobel

Can we please see about getting some updates to the werewolf in this update

I saw the 2 changes to the Pack master and passive change which is good but.......

1: Berserker needs the skin model changed to what it should be black with red eyes and wite claws
2: a slight change to timer ? place back up to 1 minute if not more

3: change "Devour" to a finishing skill i.e when health of NPC is at 5% allow X to appear to use devour to gain 30-45 seconds

would love to see some muscle mass added to the Werewolf form also

Can you help feed this back ?

lolo_01b16_ESO

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_Finn

Like the changes to Stalwart Guard, but have you considered that people will have a 2nd Tanky character in a trial use this to cast on the Main Tank holding agro on the hard-hitting boss? That way the Main Tank can still recover Stamina while also receiving a 30% damage reduction.

Not saying it should be nerfed/changed (if not considered) but it does influence zone balance. If so, it could influence group makeup.

The main tank will not recover any stamina since he will most likely still need to block. Yes, you could use a second tank to protect the main tank, but if you already have 2 tanks, you could also let them share aggro if one tank can't deal with everything for the whole fight duration.

Browiseth

Kind of a Sorcerer change as well, but I would like to see flurry and its' morphs be able to proc Surge's heals. (assuming it doesn't already on PTS. Couldn't find mention of it in the patch notes)

CyrusArya

Overall, solid patch. But two decisions leave me baffled and come across as really bad changes.

1.) The changes to harness and bone shield are completely unnecessary. Well played characters of any spec are already durable enough as it is. With the way things are in the CP campaign, with stacked mitigations combined with endless resources, you often get this situation in duels where the match will keep resetting over and over and over until one person gets a lucky hit or one person just messes up. The game since 1.6 (when I started playing) is becoming less and less about skillful play and more and more about who can play chicken longer. The changes made to harness and bone shield just exacerbate this problem.

Another issue with these changes is that bone shield is prohibitively expensive while harness is cheap and actually returns a lot of resources. Far as I can tell, good stamina builds won't even use bone shield while every magicka build ran harness anyways, and if not will run it now. So basically, the result is every magicka build now has Hardened Ward lite, robbing sorcs of their class identity and at the same time introducing the annoying mechanicss of shield stacking to every single class- even classes which didn't need a strong shield to be perfectly viable and survivable. All I'm saying is, my magicka Templar for example did NOT need this buff and now will be pushed over the top, and I see this being the case for for magicka Nightblades too. Classes with that much instant burst should under no means have access to powerful damage shields.

I hate both these changes and don't think it's the proper direction to head down in my humble opinion.

2.) Changes to reverb were completely unnecessary. No one is gonna use this skill as a dps move when it's weaker and more expensive than sword and board skills that already exists, and to bring us this useless skill you robbed stamina builds of their best CC. This skill was essential to many builds and I would like to see it changed back please. At least allow reverb to have a CC even if that means stripping it of all damage.

Helluin

Magelight vs Expert Hunter

Gladly Camouflaged Hunter is changed but, comparing Magelight's morphs and Expert Hunter's ones, there is a really big difference amongst these skills.

Camouflaged Hunter and Evil Hunter should receive something different and more solid.
Atm, with a stamina build, in PvE I'd prefer to use a potion with Major Savagery (at least is active on both bars) than slot these skills and in PvP I'd prefer Radiant Magelight over them simply because of the defense against sneaking attacks and Empower.

ADarklore

Helluin wrote: »

Magelight vs Expert Hunter

Gladly Camouflaged Hunter is changed but, comparing Magelight's morphs and Expert Hunter's ones, there is a really big difference amongst these skills.

Camouflaged Hunter and Evil Hunter should receive something different and more solid.
Atm, with a stamina build, in PvE I'd prefer to use a potion with Major Savagery (at least is active on both bars) than slot these skills and in PvP I'd prefer Radiant Magelight over them simply because of the defense against sneaking attacks and Empower.

I'm glad you would prefer to use potions, I would not. I would rather have a passive on my bar then have to worry about chugging potions all the time.

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The change to bracing is disgusting. People are theory crafting now how they can be a tank without heavy armor.

We wanted heavy armor to be better, we thought the developers were going to work with us to make it better.

The best passive of heavy armor (bracing) got removed.

Haven't there been enough nerfs?

Wrobel doesn't accomplish the goal of making heavy better by giving it minor and situational damage increase.

Development is repeating the same mistakes over again and HA tanks are taking the brunt of the damage again.

" - The combination of the Fortress and Bracing passive effects are something that I appreciate. I think that development really carefully considered block cost mitigation during its initial creation. It is frustrating that diminished returns severely affects this stat, but these two passives, and especially so in tandem, are what really make sword and board or heavy armor valuable." - Personofsecrets February 2016

Helluin

ADarklore wrote: »

Helluin wrote: »

Magelight vs Expert Hunter

Gladly Camouflaged Hunter is changed but, comparing Magelight's morphs and Expert Hunter's ones, there is a really big difference amongst these skills.

Camouflaged Hunter and Evil Hunter should receive something different and more solid.
Atm, with a stamina build, in PvE I'd prefer to use a potion with Major Savagery (at least is active on both bars) than slot these skills and in PvP I'd prefer Radiant Magelight over them simply because of the defense against sneaking attacks and Empower.

I'm glad you would prefer to use potions, I would not. I would rather have a passive on my bar then have to worry about chugging potions all the time.

Ok, but anyway the main issue is another one: Inner Light and Radiant Magelight provide a lot more than Camouflaged Hunter and Evil Hunter.
That's why I think these two should be improved in some way.

Shadesofkin

The economy of giving up optimal traits in exchange for Sturdy in order to mitigate some of the block cost changes is not worth the trouble, builds which pay attention to optimal economy of resources will always choose Infused and Divines.

While I do enjoy that many traits seem to be worth trying with the changes, Sturdy is still not among them. Consider making this also reduce overall costs increase all three stats by small amounts.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

The main tank will not recover any stamina since he will most likely still need to block. Yes, you could use a second tank to protect the main tank, but if you already have 2 tanks, you could also let them share aggro if one tank can't deal with everything for the whole fight duration.

Yeah you could but unless there is a mechanic requiring you to do so. I see no reason to unless your tank sucks. What I am talking about is mitigating 30% of the incoming damage to the main tank by having a secondary tanky character using Guard. That is quite a big difference in incoming damage to the MT and would in fact call for a redesign in the amount of damage a boss does if this tactic wasn't anticipated.

Here's what I mean:

Say your Tank has 30k health. The boss he is tanking hits for 30k.

The result of what your saying is either tank will still get hit for 30k.

What I am talking about is:

The same tank with 30k health with a tether on them gets hit for 21k instead of 30k.
The other tank gets hit for 9k.

Neither tank is at risk of getting one-shotted because Guard allows you to distribute damage in a more manageable way. Thus making the job of the tank staying alive much easier.

Essiaga

WB ... good changes ... though you pretty much crippled Stam Sorcs. They need a stam morph attack.

2handed is still stamina #1 option because of Rally and Stamplars are still stuck with it for heals and buff. Yeah, the healing class lacks healing. Odd.

Stamina has several Gap closer options. Magicka only has the class ones and they are more often broken or suck. Toppling Charge has been broke since beta with no alternative. Chains was also terrible for far to long. One day they work and then they stink. Perhaps an ALTERNATIVE option would be nice. Stam nightblades have class charge, 2 weapons and Silver Lash off the top of my head. If one stinks they can use another.

Webs ... why is this a stam morph? Is this not another version of Caltrops only not as good? It was an option for magicka builds who didn't have a solid spam-able and didn't want to be stuck with Destro. Now its a skill no one who's ever visited PVP will ever uses. Does magicka have anything that resembles Caltrops? This could have been it.

Dawn Breaker ... Templar has crap for Ult options and was left out when giving out the phys/poison, etc. ult (no suprise). Magicka templar has crap for PVP ults. The healing ult is crap. Who wants to lose control of there character to heal? Magicka templar now has meteor, probably on both bars unless their using Spear ult for the passive. Sweeps still misses as many targets as it hits. Dawn Breaker was just better.

Whats with the total segregation of stamina and Magicka? this game went from hybird friendly to green vs blue.


Magicka Det received several nerfs after having magicka PVP built around it. Makes no kinda sense. It's clearly not a DOT, but its also THE burst damage in many builds. I guess time will tell. Hell in Q3 we might just find it a stam ability.

Bone shield ... Stam based shields ... are you kidding me? You have health based class shields that are worthless (or gimmick) ... I'm going to love trying to kill the cloaking stamblade with a stamina shield, evasion, and Vigor. That NB, wrapped in Sorc, wrapped in a Templar. Homogenize much?

Clearly ZOS don't understand the issues that Hardened Ward has caused in this game (AKA Battle Spirit) if your going to create yet ANOTHER shield that increase WITH DPS. Look at whats left of the templar because of the lack of balance ZOS refuses to address? Templar had tons of mitigation ... no we cleans 2 and have major ward and resolve. It's NOTHING like the Templar I purchased because ZOS can't balance healing and shields based on stats that boost damage.

If your playing a race that doesn't give you Stam re-roll so you can increase mitigation AND DPS by a lot. I need a race change NOW. Seeing as how it took ZOS 2 years to change the word Veteran to Champion I might as well delete my v16 bosmer (with all its progression) so that I won't feel like mashed potato any time I dare step in PVP.

If your not trying to to homogenize then why are you making shields the meta? The VAST majority of magicka builds are running the same 2 shields, even if they have a crappy health based shields in class. Increase the cost of dodge roll ... then give Stam builds shields? Seriously terrible move. None of the shield changes make sense. The age Vicious Death Bombing appears to be over. We've enter the age of Shields.

Shields should NEVER be based of a skill that boost DPS otherwise you lose balance and limit builds.

Essiaga

Minalan wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

The shield duration isn't the issue with sorc. It's the size of the shields. Just give Hardened Ward diminishing returns on its scaling at higher magicka levels, make Annulment scale off of the number of light armor pieces worn, align the numbers with these scaling systems to about 2k points lower than they are on average now (10k+ each), and be done with it.

My Hardened Ward is only ~10k in PvP, which isn't much. Harness is now the much better option since it will protect from the same damage AND potentially return resources. It makes no sense for a class essentially defined by shields to use a non-class shield. And now everyone will have the same shields?

Your alternatives make more sense. Or have diminishing returns on casting multiple shields. Something like, your first Healing Ward shield casts at full value, but the Harness Magicka you cast on top of it would be 25% weaker, and if you then stacked a Hardened Ward, it would be 50% weaker. That third shield wouldn't be worth the resources... shield stacking solved.

Harness Magicka is superior to Hardened Ward in every way.

1. About the same size, effectiveness, and duration

2. Harness Magicka returns resources.

3. Harness Magicka can be pre-cast while hiding, where Hardened Ward reveals you.

4. Harness Magicka Procs frags too.

Try it. There's no reason for a sorc to use their own CLASS defense. Someone on the ZOS design team has been drinking on the job, or playing too much Magicka Nightblade.

Just like the Templar and DK. This must be way ZOS way of balancing shields so no one feels cheated. They even creates an amazing stamina shield!!! ZOS tries to avoid homogenization.

potirondb16_ESO

Domage Shield

Hi guys,

I've been reviewing skill for the last week, and now I kind of feel I'm ready to talk about those new changes you made on shield. As most notice now Harness Magika is a must have ! heavy ressource return, no risk of taking domage, obviously the best in slot magika regeneration you can found.

Stamina, yet again there's a lack of ressource return a stam build can work around... that issue need to be adress. Magika got too much opportunity to regen magika while stamina usually relly on enemy death or templar. It will need to be adress.

Also now that domage shield have seen their duration reduce... a new major issue as come up for those who were using those daily in pve or pvp. 6 second being a bit too short. Furthermore as a Sorc, 6 sec. feels like I've been better off with a templar.

So here's my proposition because I understand that pvp and pve on that aspect do have rather different perspective.

First ajust chrono so all shield don't get 6 second duration, I know this game is all about fast combat but I mean... 6 second is kind of short even more if you consider it could be your main defensive class ability.

Second, adjust battle buff in pvp so that shield last half the time they use to in pvp.

This way I feel like some skill as an exemple Harness magik who could last 8s. in pve would be good to help you deal with mecanic and such while give back a bunch of ressource but could be almost useless in pvp while only lasting 4 sec. Which would oblige people to use Something else. The same kind of adjustment could be made to Harneded Ward where it could last 16 s. in pve and be reduce to 8 in pvp, this way sorc still get some kind of real bonus from that specific aspect of their class, but get to be readjust for combat purpose in pvp.

I also do feel that this adjustment is much needed to modifiy how one class is going to use different skill in pvp while keeping more versatility to it in pve.

As an exemple Templar and their shield could be lasting 6 s. in pve while only 3 in pvp...

Cinbri

Heavy Armor:
Why not add reduce Break Free cost to one of the HA passives as it was before and revamp Immovable Brute to passively reduce effectiveness of roots for each HA piece, something like Eluse CP works.

staracino_ESO

Essiaga wrote: »

Webs ... why is this a stam morph? Is this not another version of Caltrops only not as good? It was an option for magicka builds who didn't have a solid spam-able and didn't want to be stuck with Destro. Now its a skill no one who's ever visited PVP will ever uses. Does magicka have anything that resembles Caltrops? This could have been it.

Actually the morph with the fear synergy is very OP if you have someone who is good at using it.