Stamina Sorcerer Feedback Thread: Patch 2.4.3 Update - Crit surge now affected by Battle Spirit

Birdovic · May 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Ok, this is a bit concerning...

Does the Implosion passive have a chance of proccing from each Flurry hit? Because that'd seriously pigeonhole stamina sorcs to use DW.

Other than that, I like the changes.

No flurry is considered a DoT which cannot proc it.

wrong,

look at this again:

Surge: This ability and its morphs now restore a flat value of health whenever you deal a Critical Strike. It will now also proc on any Critical Strike instead of only direct damage Critical Strikes, but can only restore health once every second.

It now can proc on dots as it seems.

They were talking about Implosion (formerly Disintegrate). If Disintergrate never procced on DOTs before, then I have no reason to believe Implosion will proc on DOTs now.

Oops youre right, was talking about surge.

Dyride · May 2016

Naked without gear using food and no CP assigned. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 @andypappb16_ESO @DDuke @Mettaricana @PainfulFAFA @Emma_Eunjung @ahzek @Jar_Ek @Dracane @mistermutiny89 @Huggalump @Spearblade @Tyrannitar and too many others...

Erraln · May 2016

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 and too many others...

Wow. It's like they said 'how can we simultaneously make this work for flurry, AND turn off magicka vMA easymode?'

Combined with the shield changes, it certainly accomplishes that.

EDIT: Upon testing, this heal is RELIABLE. It is no longer a burst, but it may be an improvement for any fight with duration.

SorataArisugawa · May 2016

Erraln wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 and too many others...

Wow. It's like they said 'how can we simultaneously make this work for flurry, AND turn off magicka vMA easymode?'

Combined with the shield changes, it certainly accomplishes that.

... Well that was a big step... in the wrong direction... GREAT JOB @Wrobel

Daymond · May 2016

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 and too many others...

Wow. It's like they said 'how can we simultaneously make this work for flurry, AND turn off magicka vMA easymode?'

Combined with the shield changes, it certainly accomplishes that.

... Well that was a big step... in the wrong direction... GREAT JOB @Wrobel

I actually really like this change...

Ajax_22 · May 2016

Dyride wrote: »

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 and too many others...

I just don't know what to say here.

@Wrobel do you honestly think this is a buff? It's not. This is a huge nerf, and no Stam Sorc will run Crit Surge over Rally. What was the purpose of buffing the other skill lines only to chain us back to Two Hand?

Do you honestly think Dark Exchange will be used in Cyrodiil now? The cast time on Dark Exchange is the problem. As long as that cast time remains Dark Exchange will not have a place on anyone's bar.

DDuke · May 2016

Anyone with the PTS patch downloaded who could test how Implosion functions with DoTs & Flurry?

Erraln · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

Anyone with the PTS patch downloaded who could test how Implosion functions with DoTs & Flurry?

Will report shortly. Disintigrate did proc on dots, so I assume it'll work.

EDIT: Confirmed, it does proc. The following is all damage below 14% HP

Estimates of proc rate should not be drawn from one sample. Even one that looks like that ;P

CP5 · May 2016

The changed disintegrate should work well. My magicka sorc stacked shock aoe's, dots, and the lightning staff heavy attack in order to keep the procs rolling against large groups in pvp. This change with hurricane, flurry, and volley could leave stam sorcs good at killing enemies below 20% health. Small range, but not as bad as before. Hurricane giving the minor move speed buff is nice, the choice is a burst of speed or more sustained, but i'm still waiting on a look at refreshing it. But surge... i'll be on pts to check out how it is but, if you call it a 3k hot it doesn't sound as garbage, I mean, can that heal crit at all?

DDuke · May 2016

CP5 wrote: »

The changed disintegrate should work well. My magicka sorc stacked shock aoe's, dots, and the lightning staff heavy attack in order to keep the procs rolling against large groups in pvp. This change with hurricane, flurry, and volley could leave stam sorcs good at killing enemies below 20% health. Small range, but not as bad as before. Hurricane giving the minor move speed buff is nice, the choice is a burst of speed or more sustained, but i'm still waiting on a look at refreshing it. But surge... i'll be on pts to check out how it is but, if you call it a 3k hot it doesn't sound as garbage, I mean, can that heal crit at all?

It should proc from almost every Flurry as well, even if you run heavy armor & low crit chance - so that sounds fine to me.

I've got a build in mind already, but it'll require some more testing :P

The heal is only 50% in Cyrodiil though, so around 1,5-2k depending on your CPs.

Mettaricana · May 2016

5% phsy dmg +low health insta kill I like it not too bad need more but we on a good track now of we can get a skill other than hurricane for a stam morph I still suhgest revert bound arma back to mag and choose another skill to cost stam

SorataArisugawa · May 2016

Spearblade wrote: »

[...]
This Lightning Strike thing...depends on duration of the Stamina morph. Keep in mind, Stamina sorcs don't have instant spam, and would be using Wrecking/Dizzying Blow or Flurry (still has channel duration). Also, if it's a buff...gotta be instant cast.

[...]

Yeah, could be an istant "air-preasure" "spell" as well.

Dyride · May 2016

@CP5 It will only be a 1.5k HoT in PVP.

Implosion passive

Dark Exchange

PainfulFAFA · May 2016

I consider these changes a WIN.

Regarding Crit Surge changes:
It was never good for pvp, but it was GREAT for PvE. With a minimum of 65% cit, a stam sorc wouldnt need a healer. This was the ONLY good thing stam sorcs had (pvp/pve wise) and these changes, i am OK with, because they BUFFED disintegrate (implosion) by alot. My theorycrafting is going all over the place. I will be able to proc Implosion with caltrops?? With a sword and board too?? ZOMFG

Also dont forget two important things about the new Surge.
-Procs on ANY crit. (works with dots such as caltrops)
-Surge heals can crit heal. (on par, and imo better than Rally)
The only way stam sorcs lose with these changes is in PvE and its not much of a loss. I can still see myself completing vMA on a stam sorc even after these changes. If the issue for other stam sorcs is self sustain/heals, dont forget we also have a spammable stam shield.

Regarding Dark Exchange changes:
So they increased heals by 100%. On live, my tooltip is at 4k HP and 2.8k stam. So it will now heal for 4.4k?
Hmm, not good enough. As long as it has a cast time, Itll continue to be on my Overload bar IF/WHEN im Overloading. Dark Exchange needs at least a minor/major buff added onto its base effects for it to be viable.

Regarding Hurricane:
Now has minor Expedition as long as its active. Holy crap thats awesome.

Now, i can say Hurricane will be super good. I see myself using this both in pvp and pve.

Regarding Implosion (prev. Disintegrate)
The BIGGEST change of them all it blew the wind outta me. i absolutely love this change. I can proc pulverize (disintegrate) with any weapon now. Not to mention caltrops and fighters guild. Also the reason why hurricane will be super super good.

I was expecting a lot more changes to other passives (especially the ones under Daedric Summoning) but these changes are awesome. Thanks Dev team for finally doing something about stam sorc! I only wish there wouldve been more changes specifically to pets, pet passives (expert summoner, rebate, etc), and tweaking sorc ultimates such as OL (scales off of stam) and Atronach (does some sort of physical dmg).

Erock25 · May 2016

I'm going to also concur that I like the changes. Now after 2.4.2 there are only TWO more things that must be consider by @wrobel .

1. Give bound aegis / armaments the buffs when on your bar and introduce an activated element to it. No need for the two bar taking up toggle.

2. Give us a physical cp scaling sorc ultimate.. Either atro or overload.

Vythri · May 2016

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food and no CP assigned. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 @andypappb16_ESO @DDuke @Mettaricana @PainfulFAFA @Emma_Eunjung @ahzek @Jar_Ek @Dracane @mistermutiny89 @Huggalump @Spearblade @Tyrannitar and too many others...

So... why would I use this move over Rally ever?

Jar_Ek · May 2016

I like all the changes except the Surge changes - which I will need to test to see if the numbers stack up or if its basically ineffective. Oh and Dark Deal needs to recover more stamina if its to be useful to sorcerer Tanks.

Now all we need is a physical Ultimate morph and a direct damage attack (hint rework Bound Armaments to Bound weapon).

Birdovic · May 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm going to also concur that I like the changes. Now after 2.4.2 there are only TWO more things that must be consider by @wrobel .

1. Give bound aegis / armaments the buffs when on your bar and introduce an activated element to it. No need for the two bar taking up toggle.

2. Give us a physical cp scaling sorc ultimate.. Either atro or overload.

Exactly what im thinking.
If these 2 changes are done, the Stam Sorc is in an absolutely fine position.

So... why would I use this move over Rally ever?

@Vythri

You're not forced to use a 2h anymore for heals, you can put other weapons like Sword/Board/Dualwield/Bow in combination with that change to use now. Think of something new

Spearblade · May 2016

I'm not saying Surge change was good. I still have to test myself. As for WHY you might use it...if you don't want to use 2H. You have Major Brutality from Surge and could use DW Flurry heal or Blood Craze or whatnot for steady heals. Vigor is always an option for healing too.

I like Bound Weapon idea.

Daedric Summoning Health/Stam recovery skill requirement still needs to go though.

Emma_Overload · May 2016

Vythri wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food and no CP assigned. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 @andypappb16_ESO @DDuke @Mettaricana @PainfulFAFA @Emma_Eunjung @ahzek @Jar_Ek @Dracane @mistermutiny89 @Huggalump @Spearblade @Tyrannitar and too many others...

So... why would I use this move over Rally ever?

Because you switched to DW instead of 2H? That's a much bigger heal over time than Rally, anyway.

RoyJade · May 2016

Seem that I'll drop lethal arrow for focused aim. Bombard/tornado spam will be even more powerful, it can be fun.

Surge is definitely a huge boost for tank.

Roymachine · May 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food and no CP assigned. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 @andypappb16_ESO @DDuke @Mettaricana @PainfulFAFA @Emma_Eunjung @ahzek @Jar_Ek @Dracane @mistermutiny89 @Huggalump @Spearblade @Tyrannitar and too many others...

So... why would I use this move over Rally ever?

Because you switched to DW instead of 2H? That's a much bigger heal over time than Rally, anyway.

Agreed. That looks like a lot of sustain especially for DW.

Spearblade · May 2016

To be perfectly honest, Critical Surge was OP. I could stand in bad *** and solo IC sewer bosses just spamming WB because I got like...14k heals off of it and 80% crit chance or so.

I do think flat heals off crits is a step in the right direction, and everything will trigger it. Is the heal value where it should be? To be determined.

PainfulFAFA · May 2016

Vythri wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food and no CP assigned. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 @andypappb16_ESO @DDuke @Mettaricana @PainfulFAFA @Emma_Eunjung @ahzek @Jar_Ek @Dracane @mistermutiny89 @Huggalump @Spearblade @Tyrannitar and too many others...

So... why would I use this move over Rally ever?

This is something that i would put on my overload bar along with Caltrops before i jump in the fight.
Thats one way i can think of and theres more but theres a lot of testing to be done.
Personally, i might go rally + surge (vigor on OL bar) OR Forward momentum + surge (swap shuffle for vigor). That all depends on how well my boneshields are.

Vythri · May 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

@Vythri

You're not forced to use a 2h anymore for heals, you can put other weapons like Sword/Board/Dualwield/Bow in combination with that change to use now. Think of something new

Except Rally is a more reliable and guaranteed heal, it can be recast for a burst heal, and it gives you Major Brutality. If you want to heal yourself with Crit Surge, you need to actively be hitting somebody, and then there's the no crititng shields thing.

Sure, you can use other weapons I guess, but it's not worth it.

Mettaricana · May 2016

I do feel the 5% phsy boost should be like 7% for both phsy and shock dmg.

disintegrate should be bumped to 8-10% chance to finish of targets since stam sorc seems to rely entirely on random chance for crits and kills should atleast give us better chances.

Still need that stam morph for frags or some kinda direct dmg skill(Crystal blade just conjure a quick melee range blade of dark crystals that shatter on impact and cause phsyical dmg and leaves a bleed dot dmg) . Maybe a lightning whip morph for endless fury that deals physical dmg loses its execute but gains a huge dmg buff to be on par with other skills similar.

Exchange needs a change rather than channel just give it an insta cast and each cast just gives us the exchange listed make it take like 1 sec total to finish the animation.

Dark magic blood magic and exploitation should have some kinda health and crit benefit to us as well now if we got a stam morph of frags we could use Its effect to keep our stam heals up and buff crits for our critical surge.

Birdovic · May 2016

Vythri wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

@Vythri

You're not forced to use a 2h anymore for heals, you can put other weapons like Sword/Board/Dualwield/Bow in combination with that change to use now. Think of something new

Except Rally is a more reliable and guaranteed heal, it can be recast for a burst heal, and it gives you Major Brutality. If you want to heal yourself with Crit Surge, you need to actively be hitting somebody, and then there's the no crititng shields thing.

Sure, you can use other weapons I guess, but it's not worth it.

Throwing caltrops into a zerg is pretty reliable, too

You can also apply Dots and play the hide behind tree/atro game. It can proc, too and doesnt rely on your dealt damage.

And about no critting shields, if i recall correctly, wasnt there a change so shields CAN be critted...?

DDuke · May 2016

Vythri wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

Naked without gear using food and no CP assigned. Tooltip doesn't scale with Health, Stamina, or Wpn Damage. Tooltip does scale with Blessed but not Quick Recovery in Champ tree.

@Erock25 @CP5 @Cathexis @TBois @FENGRUSH @Ajax_22 @andypappb16_ESO @DDuke @Mettaricana @PainfulFAFA @Emma_Eunjung @ahzek @Jar_Ek @Dracane @mistermutiny89 @Huggalump @Spearblade @Tyrannitar and too many others...

So... why would I use this move over Rally ever?

I think better question would be: why would I not use both?

Surge has a crazy long duration, and with the amount it heals now you can kind of consider it a 33 second duration Vigor. Combine it with Forward Momentum (or Rally) & Vigor and you have some serious heals on your bar to survive pressure from opponents.

Ajax_22 · May 2016

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Vythri wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

@Vythri

You're not forced to use a 2h anymore for heals, you can put other weapons like Sword/Board/Dualwield/Bow in combination with that change to use now. Think of something new

Except Rally is a more reliable and guaranteed heal, it can be recast for a burst heal, and it gives you Major Brutality. If you want to heal yourself with Crit Surge, you need to actively be hitting somebody, and then there's the no crititng shields thing.

Sure, you can use other weapons I guess, but it's not worth it.

Throwing caltrops into a zerg is pretty reliable, too
You can also apply Dots and play the hide behind tree/atro game. It can proc, too and doesnt rely on your dealt damage.

And about no critting shields, if i recall correctly, wasnt there a change so shields CAN be critted...?

No, Crit Surge was changed to be able to proc it's heal on shields (shields still can't be crit), but the heal you get if it hits a shield was somewhere around 300-400. As far as I know that heal amount hasn't changed.

Vythri · May 2016

DDuke wrote: »

I think better question would be: why would I not use both?

Surge has a crazy long duration, and with the amount it heals now you can kind of consider it a 33 second duration Vigor. Combine it with Forward Momentum (or Rally) & Vigor and you have some serious heals on your bar to survive pressure from opponents.

So you're going to slot Crit Surge, Rally, and Vigor? I mean you can, but you're losing a skill slot for 2 moves that basically do the same thing.