Ridiculously long queue for DPS to queue for dungeon

Avenias · May 2016

I understand every mmorpg with a queue system has this problem, due to overwhelmingly larger no. of dps then tanks or healers, but why is that every mmorpg out there pretty much gave up on it? At least in SWTOR they bothered to make dungeon runs available to everyone immediately by giving u a pocket healer/tank/dps when you enter the dungeon that was enough to fill up the missing role. Its almost a lackluster effort from Zenimax to fix this issue. Come up with creative solutions to address this issue, instead of just closing your eyes and hoping that this will go away.

TheDarkShadow · May 2016

I'll keep repeating myself till there is some improvement: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261418/suggestion-why-we-need-a-token-system

Mordiez · May 2016

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

Sausage · May 2016

Let us queue up with our alts or then give us Armor/Build slots, so one can switch between dps, heal or tank conveniently.

MrDenimChicken · May 2016

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

wow, really? The blaming the playerbase argument?

The game feels like just a single player game while lvling to 50, so why wouldn't you run builds geared towards killing mobs fast??

Plus, respec'ing costs a ridiculous amount of cash! I have no motivation to spend that much cash to respec when I don't have much faith in the group finder after waiting 2 hours in queue as a DPS. There is no justification for queues that long in a video game, regardless of group role.

Vipstaakki · May 2016

All i can say is that you should get used to it. It takes about 3 - 4 hours for a DPS to find a group while you can find a group in 10 minutes or less for a tank or a healer.

AOECAPS · May 2016

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

Yet most are dumb enough to not move out of the giant red circles and aren't smart enough to be able to heal themselves in a pinch or sustain themselves. I mostly dps but can heal or tank and this observation is from Pugging they get mad because they can't stay alive while not dodging skoria meteors or playing patty cake with the wraiths in crypt of hearts

sigsergv · May 2016

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

The problem is much more complex. The main reason tanks/healers don't use pug finder is: It's very frustrating and negative experience. If group wiped DPS blame healer first, then tank. Most people don't bother following basic game mechanics and think that the only thing they must do is to spam damage skills. They ignore red circles/donuts, they don't protect healer when he/she is in danger, they spread on location so healer cannot reach them, they stand between tank and boss etc etc.

The game is so much DPS oriented so a lot f people just don't know how DPS should correctly behave in a dungeon.

Humatiel · May 2016

so I can do vICP with 4 DPS, granted they are very good dps, but it can be done. If in it's current state that can be accomplished then that means its probably time to give up on the heal/tank priority in 4-man content.

tl;dr we cant nerf all content to dust then complain when support classes for content isn't being utilized.

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2016

The most basic reason for this is that ESO uses 4 man groups while other MMOs use 5 and 6 man groups. Only needing 1 healer and 1 tank per every 3 or 4 damage dealers instead of every 2 does a lot to shorten the queues.

Blevil · May 2016

They should give extra bonus rewards in exp or some other incentive for tanks and healers to queue for dungeons to promote more to play those roles and maybe punish "burning bosses" too quickly in dungeons by not going through mechanics.

strikeback1247 · May 2016

I think the problem is indeed that so many players play DPS instead of a tank or healer. However, this problem in every mmo is always created by the fact that the former two roles are harder and less fun to play in most people's eyes. Zos should encourage people to play as a tank or healer, not just nerf the two roles like they are doing now.

Humatiel · May 2016

So then the question comes to this, would you accept a scaling of all group content to match say 300CP and keep the IC dungeons the way that they are to retain healers and tanks "viability" in the game?

Taisynn · May 2016

There is no incentive to play as a tank or healer. It's an unforgiving and cruel thing, especially with heavy armor being useless in PVP - nobody wants to level it up. Long story short - it's annoying and difficult to be a tank.

Delpi · May 2016

It's very frustrating been a tank, yes, you can do dungeons but... you can't literally do other things in game as pvp or maelstorm arena, it's impossible :P

MarcoPolo · May 2016

Yeah and then you get a group and cant travel to dungeon because apparently "instance is full" wth?

Mojmir · May 2016

I don't use the finder at all,if guild mates want to that's fine.let me know when your ready,I'll be doing something else in the meantime.lol

TheDarkShadow · May 2016

MarcoPolo wrote: »

Yeah and then you get a group and cant travel to dungeon because apparently "instance is full" wth?

That group just kicked someone and the game still think there were 4 people in dungeon. Just wait a few minutes.

altemriel · May 2016

well it depends on the pixie.

sometimes he is fast, sometimes he is very very slow. depends on how much pixie-coffee he drinks in that time

MarcoPolo · May 2016

I left group, turns out they on the last boss which for me is no good as its gold pledge,
first time using group finder for me

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

MarcoPolo wrote: »

Yeah and then you get a group and cant travel to dungeon because apparently "instance is full" wth?

That group just kicked someone and the game still think there were 4 people in dungeon. Just wait a few minutes.

failkiwib16_ESO · May 2016

I mainly pug or use grouping tool as a DD, but my normal role is being a healer.

I used to join groups as a healer, and I ended up with v1 and v2 DD's in a v16 scaled dungeon, or v16's for that matter who couldn't pull enough damage. It's easier for me to carry such a team through, if I don't have the responsibility for everyones healthbars. I still do off healing, but I can at least focus on damage.

I suspect this is the reason why it's hard to find a group as a DD, because many who play support roles que in as DD's to avoid getting stuck on a boss for 10min+ and not be able to finish a dungeon after 40min.

Considering that all these group dungeons are daily pledges, and I've done them all so many times, I don't need or want to spend more than 40min in a dungeon. Spending hours on that might be fun for some players, but I have a guild and friends in the game to attend to.

Rune_Relic · May 2016

Being a tank and a healer isnt sexy.
Mainly because they biased the game in favour of DD builds.

You want tanks and healers.
Make tanking and healing sexy again.

Alas that would actually require listening to what tanks and healers actually want.
It would also require removing the deliberate DD bias.
It would also require removing the stack one attribute to be good at everything system.

FatKidHatchets · May 2016

I love tanking and healing. But pugs are such an annoyance. Did banished cells and had to kill boss as tank lol

GaldorP · May 2016

90% of the content in this game is most comfortable to do with a max damage build.
Many people don't have enough/don't want to invest the skill points to have several roles (dd + tank or healer) on the same character at the same time or they don't have the gear that would allow them to fulfill a tank or healer role (optimal tank and healer builds also require different Champion Point setups and reassigning Champion Points costs 3k gold every time you do it + there is no option to use several presets so you have to manually redistribute all the Champion Points every time).
For these reasons alone, it's pretty obvious that more than 2 out of 4 players signing up for a group dungeon in the group finder will be damage dealers and that there won't be enough healers and tanks (the lfg messages posted in zone chat confirm this; it seems like 7 to 9 out of 10 players looking for a group are damage dealers).

- Now you can choose to adapt and make a build that can also tank or heal in a group dungeon even if it probably won't be a perfect tank or healer build unless you fully respec (which you will regret the next time you want to run the Veteran Maelstrom Arena). If you do this you'll find groups in no time at all (especially as a tank).
- You can cheat the system and indicate that you're a tank even if you aren't (unethical, but most group dungeons can easily be completed with 3 damage dealers and 1 healer).
- Or you can find a friend that is a healer or tank and sign up as a team of 2 (which also gives you the advantage that you or your friend will very likely be the group leader). You'll also find groups pretty fast (usually in less than 10 minutes; on PC EU server at least).

However, I don't think it's reasonable to blame the player-base as a whole for a design problem that the developers should have seen coming.

Francescolg · May 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

they biased the game in favour of DD builds.

1. This is reason number one. I can only speak for Templars: Healing got nurfed, resource regeneration sucks, Templars are less "practical" in PvP, they got mostly clumsy skills (channeled or cast-time), no good AoE-CC, NO "ESCAPE skills", much less well-off resource regeneration/management as tank/healer, worse ultimates and what disturbs the most: The Breath of Life-nurf, which made healing 'less well off' groups awf_l

2. Reason No°2 is the rewards you gain by doing undaunted quests. If you need money, there are better ways to go than just doing random dungeons, even for the single players. Undaunted dungeons will become attractive, if you can actually come out with a $$-bonus, like 10-20k gold of material-sells! ATM it's more like 3-5k gold after an hour in a dungeon, THIS SU_KS

3. Difficulty levels. Especially White Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison, no matter if veteran or normal mode!! I say this as one, who has being playing since day 1 and I am only a healer but I got skill/experience. The arrogance of people, who have never really played any longer time in "real" random groups, hurts me! This dungeons have been too difficult for too long (so it's too late!), making it a very frustrating experience and that leads to reason nr. 4 (ZOS needed too much time to admit it! --> data analyse)

4. ZOS has done too much for "expert players". Many decisions, done in the last year, were based up on information they got by very experienced players, who play ESO nearly every day. Of course, for such players, every class is too easy and the ESO-dungeons are too easy too... But in reality, large parts of the player base are no experts and the game is not forgiving for non-expert players (damage numbers in PVP, aswell as in WGT/ICP/etc.)

--> Improving the game, ONLY based up on feedback from the strongest players (PvE/PvP), harms the game, as this people are not representative for the whole player base. (as it was done with the test server, or when ZOS listened to streamers)

--> Now, they start noticing: "Ooooh, soo many (random) groups are struggling in White Gold Tower for hours and hours".. "Why do so many ppl avoid Maelstrom Arena, WTG, ICP, Pledges?" AFTER 1 year.. lol /you failed/

failkiwib16_ESO · May 2016

@Francescolg there are many casuals who play this game every day, and there are tons of endgame players who purchase crowns for DLC's since it's required that they grind gear in various content of each DLC to continue in endgame with BiS gear.

As for pets and costumes, they are popular in all communities in ESO.

Avenias · May 2016

I dont think that the issue is necessarily the lack of incentive to be a tank or a healer, since they get into groups really fast. Healers especially can queue for both dps and healers, while tanks are usually just tanks. Incentives will not change the structure of there being an overwhelming majority of dps, compared to tanks and healers. That is the same for pretty much every mmorpgs, dps is everywhere, but tank/healer is in high demand. I think ZOS should take a long hard look at this and come out with creative solutions to overcome this problem. They can look at other games for inspirations, like SWTOR giving pocket healers/dps/tanks for dungeons, Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) giving out personal hirelings to help out in dungeons, Neverwinter online giving the option to go solo, by reducing the monster strength, etc.

The end goal is the same, to increase participation of dungeons by DPS instead of being stuck in a queue. How you do it, is the big question and i leave it to ZOS devs to come out with creative solutions to overcome it, instead of simply ignoring it.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · May 2016

Avenias wrote: »

I dont think that the issue is necessarily the lack of incentive to be a tank or a healer, since they get into groups really fast. Healers especially can queue for both dps and healers, while tanks are usually just tanks. Incentives will not change the structure of there being an overwhelming majority of dps, compared to tanks and healers. That is the same for pretty much every mmorpgs, dps is everywhere, but tank/healer is in high demand. I think ZOS should take a long hard look at this and come out with creative solutions to overcome this problem. They can look at other games for inspirations, like SWTOR giving pocket healers/dps/tanks for dungeons, Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) giving out personal hirelings to help out in dungeons, Neverwinter online giving the option to go solo, by reducing the monster strength, etc.

The end goal is the same, to increase participation of dungeons by DPS instead of being stuck in a queue. How you do it, is the big question and i leave it to ZOS devs to come out with creative solutions to overcome it, instead of simply ignoring it.

Problem with this game though is that you can do pretty much every dungeon faster with 1-2 siphonblades and 2 pure dps than having a tank and a dedicated healer with 2 dps. Which is why I've been seeing more and more people just skip tanks completely lately, both in guild and zone chat.

Teridaxus · May 2016

Taking away our bracing and giving us extra dps, will make tanks even more rare in db^^

Strider_Roshin · May 2016

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

The problem is that the game is so easy that you don't need a tank or a healer.

Mr.Hmm · May 2016

To OP:
Like... is it really hard to have an off-set for tanking/healing?
I mean do you only DPS?. If so then you are going to wait for a real long time.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

The problem is that the game is so easy that you don't need a tank or a healer.

I see so you are saying there is no need for a tank or a healer in Trials/Dungeons.. so bet it then. NO MORE TANK OR HEALERS IN TRIALS/DUNGEONS GUYS.