Ridiculously long queue for DPS to queue for dungeon

SolarCat02

As I healer, I will not use the group finder alone, but will queue often if I can bring at least one person (usually my favorite DPS, if I am honest ). It's the only way to make sure I can compensate for whoever else we get through the finder.

The number of times I have played light armor healtank (with him off-healing or off-tanking as needed) because our "tank" was a low-powered dps with a bow and no taunts... And don't get me started on the DPS who use tanking builds and armor sets...

It is dangerous to queue alone, so I am a firm believer in the buddy system.

That's not to say everyone who uses the dungeon finder is clueless of course! I have run with some solid tanks, and a few nights ago three of us had a blast running Crypt of Hearts with a Sorcerer DPS we picked up via group finder whose build really meshed well with ours. (Needless to say, we will be running with him again!)

So it's hit and miss. I love the changes they have made to group finder (although please fix the bug queuing with a group for WHT and I, pretty please?) I think the issues are more with the way the rest of the game is set up (Leveling tanks especially is slow! I am frequently porting to one of our tanks to help him take out Harvester bosses for quests. ) not to mention the mentality of some (not all!) of the players.

If extra incentives are added for tanks and healers to queue for dungeons, I really don't see that fixing anything... In fact, I see more healtanking in my future as people queue for the reward without the build to back it up.

If there is a way for the game to check if you have the build, that *might* fix it... But I am against that route as I feel it's a slippery slope towards mandatory skillsets for roles, and I enjoy the flexibility of this game too much!

I think the biggest fix would be to make the rest of the game friendlier for healers but *especially* tanks. Solo-playing, tanks take forever; grouping for dungeons is actually one of the faster ways to level. So there is incentive to run dungeons with a tank... Just not to actually level and play tanks in the first place.

Healers are at least a little better off, since we can at least use some of the same stats for DPS, so skill swapping can get us a chunk of the way there for soloing.

Sorry for the wall of text!

Shadowfx1970

swirve wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

Tank and Healer always get the blame are the hardest characters to play and get the least amount of love, dps on the other hand are for people who can't play tanks or healers, take from that what you will.

You know nothing john snow.

Healer is easy 2 play and you cant save stupid that is not what a healer is.

Ive played with suicidal advance running aggro pulling dps and i try to keep them alive, but eventually i give them less time and focus more on the usually other 2 decent players.

If you find healer hard to play i would question how good a player are you really?

I have also played with dps who hit like a wet flannel and we have wiped because of it you cant heal burn an enraged boss.

Outputting decent damage especially on the console requires some skill.

My post was a generalisation as in most games they are the difficult roles to play so people avoid them, even in this game and many others people play for free too many bad DPS that's what makes playing a healer or tank hard not the abilities or the role.

I didn't mention anything about my own abilities so sniping a comment about it shows you obviously either didn't read my post properly or just didn't get it.

Skills perhaps but you need brains too.

I think the brains are lacking with you. Your last statement was dps are for ppl who cant play tank or healer which is pure stupidity.

I play dps 80% time i do the others as needed.

I know plenty of tanks and healers who do vet content, some struggle to output strong sustained dps.

It is very uncommon that a healer or tank have much in the way of challenge in most content. The hard content also equally requires skilled dps players.

I took from your post that you know nothing john snow.

Wow, you really are really uptight aren't you, I was in no way implying you didn't have brains perhaps a serious lack of facial hair though.

The dps comment was an old joke so only mature gamers who played games before everything everywhere got nerfed would have got it.

So let me break this down for you, a dps char only has to put out good damage figures and manage one resource can we agree on that at least?

A tank has to keep agro, mitigate damage and shield dps and healer, they also need to manage more than one resource slightly more involved so effectively harder to play, do you agree with that?

A healer a good one that is can do some damage sometimes more than the dps, keep up the tank and look after dps so everyone can do their job, they also have to manage more than one resource so in effect is still more involved, so thus slightly harder to play.

Tanks and healers often don't get a lot of love it's not as desirable as hacking and slashing down your enemies and considering 4 good dps can clear a dungeon without a tank or dedicated healer it's no surprise the group finder doesn't work that well.

But of course, seeings you know everything you don't need me to tell you that.

So if I'm wrong, enlighten me oh wise mystical being of all knowledge, or you could just try and insult me again, which by the way you are wasting your precious time with.

Gargath

SolarCat02 wrote: »

I think the biggest fix would be to make the rest of the game friendlier for healers but *especially* tanks. Solo-playing, tanks take forever; grouping for dungeons is actually one of the faster ways to level. So there is incentive to run dungeons with a tank... Just not to actually level and play tanks in the first place.

Can you pls explain why do you think levelling tank takes forever? I actually created my first dragonknight tank (lvl22 so far) with 1H and shield and so far found it's levelling as fast as others classes, and I tried every class possible. Maybe it's a way of choosing more accurate playing style. Because if tank, due to his more than decent survivability, can easily deal with any world bosses and dolmens solo, he can also level faster this way than e.g dps who dies more frequently soloing those bosses even in decent gears. I observed many dps of my lvl dying on world bosses which then I easily killed as a tank. Maybe it took me a minute or two longer, but mission was completed without losses .

jircris11

Avenias wrote: »

I understand every mmorpg with a queue system has this problem, due to overwhelmingly larger no. of dps then tanks or healers, but why is that every mmorpg out there pretty much gave up on it? At least in SWTOR they bothered to make dungeon runs available to everyone immediately by giving u a pocket healer/tank/dps when you enter the dungeon that was enough to fill up the missing role. Its almost a lackluster effort from Zenimax to fix this issue. Come up with creative solutions to address this issue, instead of just closing your eyes and hoping that this will go away.

you think eso is bad. ffxiv is worse. i waited 3 hours tonight for a group thanks to running dps. when i run healer its almost insta queue lol

estera

Gargath wrote: »

Can you pls explain why do you think levelling tank takes forever? I actually created my first dragonknight tank (lvl22 so far) with 1H and shield and so far found it's levelling as fast as others classes, and I tried every class possible. Maybe it's a way of choosing more accurate playing style. Because if tank, due to his more than decent survivability, can easily deal with any world bosses and dolmens solo, he can also level faster this way than e.g dps who dies more frequently soloing those bosses even in decent gears. I observed many dps of my lvl dying on world bosses which then I easily killed as a tank. Maybe it took me a minute or two longer, but mission was completed without losses .

Tank leveling is a bit slower than DD and the reason is pretty simple - the more dps you have, the faster you are burning thru content. Both tank and DD can solo dolmens and world bosses, but DD does it faster and get experiences faster.

To speedup overall leveling process I personally prefer to level medium and light armor with offensive weaponry before moving to heavy armor and one hand and shield leveling. You get more experience on higher levels, so leveling heavy armor and 1H+S takes fewer quests/mobs.

At the same time if we are speaking about normal-level group dungeons it is possible to do most them solo without leveling tank skills. These solo builds can easily be converted to "tank" by adding some taunt skill.
These "tanks" will be useless in veteran-level dungeons, but for normal-level they are quite viable. Even if you find yourself in group with experienced players who are not familiar with dungeon and boss mechanics you can still pull it thru after rest of your group are dead from boss's AoE attacks.

greylox

Yeah my tank gets in in under 10 mins every time...my dd's , 2 hours is pretty good...sigh.

What would be good is if you could queue multiple characters then just swap over to them when it's time. Once a dungeon has come up for one of the toons, then the rest that are queued will be suspended until u are out.

Garldeen

jircris11 wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

....you think eso is bad. ffxiv is worse. i waited 3 hours tonight for a group thanks to running dps. when i run healer its almost insta queue lol

Never tried as a DPS but as a Tank, I never waited for more than 5 mins for a group. Most of the time it was instant. What I liked about the FFXIV way of group is that you didn't select your role, it was selected by class/weapon/gear setup you had on at the time. The ability to play all classes as one character was much better than having to start over again for each .

I play DPS on this game and I cannot recall the last time I found a group through the finder.

Sure, there are more DPS players in the game but if 60% of people played DPS, the fact you need two for each group means that it works out to be 30% DPS and then, say, 20% each for healer and tank. The wait should be a bit longer but not massively longer. However, in reality, the wait time doesn't seem to scale as well as this suggests

Garldeen

Odd. I've managed to write my previous post as a quote of myself while trying to quote someone else.

Fallen_Ray

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

Myself included!!! But I just love Mages in RPG games I can't help myself. I didn't pick sorcerer because its overpowerness. I just love Mage builds!

SolarCat02

Gargath wrote: »

SolarCat02 wrote: »

I think the biggest fix would be to make the rest of the game friendlier for healers but *especially* tanks. Solo-playing, tanks take forever; grouping for dungeons is actually one of the faster ways to level. So there is incentive to run dungeons with a tank... Just not to actually level and play tanks in the first place.

Can you pls explain why do you think levelling tank takes forever? I actually created my first dragonknight tank (lvl22 so far) with 1H and shield and so far found it's levelling as fast as others classes, and I tried every class possible. Maybe it's a way of choosing more accurate playing style. Because if tank, due to his more than decent survivability, can easily deal with any world bosses and dolmens solo, he can also level faster this way than e.g dps who dies more frequently soloing those bosses even in decent gears. I observed many dps of my lvl dying on world bosses which then I easily killed as a tank. Maybe it took me a minute or two longer, but mission was completed without losses .

Estera did a great job of explaining! A few additions to this...

At higher levels it gets a lot slower, especially once you hit the veteran ranks. To be able to tank veteran dungeons you need to specialize in resistances and survivability, rather than the skills and bonuses that would increase your damage. The enemies are tougher, with more hit points, so with lower damage on your end and higher resistances and health on theirs, your time to completion goes up drastically.

You can get around some of this by using different gear and respeccing your champion points, but that becomes an expensive proposition.

So yes, the survivability is a great feature! And it does let you grind things down that a squishy dps may have difficulty surviving depending upon their dodge roll skills. But the higher the level, the bigger the gap between damage dealing and tanking.

Metal10957

OK, so it's not good enough that all classes can do 80% of the same skills, now we have to deter players from ever becoming a utility role. I must have massive DPS numbers or I am not cool, I die a lot though because my defense sucks, my tank is horrible and the healer refuses to heal me, boo hoo... whine whine whine

estera

Metal10957 wrote: »

OK, so it's not good enough that all classes can do 80% of the same skills, now we have to deter players from ever becoming a utility role.

Quite the opposite - re-spec as a tank or healer and waste no time in waiting queue

Nogawd

As a healer, no more solo-q group finder for me.

Let's just say out of 10 runs, 1-3 may be ok, but the rest will be absolutely terrible leading to drops and complete disbanding. It's just not worth the risk anymore for me.

I don't think it's being elitist or anything like that. I just can't spend hours trying to complete CoH or CoA. Heck, even in some of the more easy ones (Elden Hollow, for example) these groups still struggle.

I get it, probably just a majority of new people. New or just bad players. It seems as if we are nerfing the game for them, coddling them even more though.

mistermutiny89

I want to be angry when people lie about their roles when I'm grouped with them in the finder, but I understand that it's because of the ridiculously long queue times for dps.

I strongly advise others to put the time into leveling up light, medium and heavy armour, sword and board, resto, etc, then making gear for each of the trinities. That way you can queue for each role.. And not be a burden on your fellow ESO players. The 3,000 on champion point reallocation will be made back by completing the dungeon and selling loot dropped in there.

Put the effort in everyone! Help each other and yourself.

Gargath

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

The 3,000 on champion point reallocation will be made back by completing the dungeon and selling loot dropped in there.

This is really a good joke .

mistermutiny89

Gargath wrote: »

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

The 3,000 on champion point reallocation will be made back by completing the dungeon and selling loot dropped in there.

This is really a good joke .

100ish gold per trash pull,
660 gold from pledge hand in
Rest of the gold made by selling the colossal amount of junk gear dropped.

Okay so maybe you'll lose 500g here and there but you'll save gold and time in the long run. Hope this helps!!

It's helped get some of my dps characters to undaunted 9 all in pugs. Minus the 2-3 hour queue times.

Gargath

Well someone wrote somewhere that for the pledges people generally don't queue by GroupFinder but instead spam general chat, so considering this concerns mainly normal random dungeons queue, the number of trash gear dropped isn't really colossal, at least in my case. Usually I find some trash for deconstruction, maybe 1 or 2 blue or purple gear, also not worth too much. Usually this gear sells long in store and only for traits, even in major trading hubs, when by exploring in a same time we can dig out and sell faster much more interesting and expensive ores and other materials. Because of that I was never so far connecting doing dungeon with earning money... In fact for a real explorer-trader the time needed for dungeon is a time wasted.

Xandryah

my personal reason why i have given up and don't use the groupfinder are basically:

> normal dungeons are quite difficult to do in blue/green gear as single target dps, especially the common mobs; they have lots of life and lose HP very slowly (you need to click a lot the single target dmg-skills)

> i am rather required to change my bars to aoe-dmg-dps, which is sth i really don't like

> i was unlucky with 2 bosses, where 1 of them was very difficult (healed himself, i think) and 1 was bugged ( i can't find another explanation; tigers kept spawning); this experience and plus other combat-experiences since 2014 made the game rather unattractive (for me) and not worth the risk to invest more time into particular activities.

> rewards probably are not good enough in dungeons either...not sure; tokens or ingame currency would be cool, probably

it's a bit a shame, because the dungeons look very impressive and the lighting too...


> side note: game-UI should provide more info about the things going on during combat (buffs, debuffs, distance, ability-name etcc...> i personally think a customizable and toggle-able UI (for the RP-affecionado and for any traditionalist nay-sayers) , inspired by swtor's one, would benefit the game too (with customizable, striking colors to better understand a combat-situation)

NBrookus

Gargath wrote: »

Can you pls explain why do you think levelling tank takes forever? I actually created my first dragonknight tank (lvl22 so far) with 1H and shield and so far found it's levelling as fast as others classes, and I tried every class possible. Maybe it's a way of choosing more accurate playing style. Because if tank, due to his more than decent survivability, can easily deal with any world bosses and dolmens solo, he can also level faster this way than e.g dps who dies more frequently soloing those bosses even in decent gears. I observed many dps of my lvl dying on world bosses which then I easily killed as a tank. Maybe it took me a minute or two longer, but mission was completed without losses .

Leveling a tank when you have a lot of CP, can craft or pull from archives the set gear you want, and have a good knowledge of the game is going to be a dramatically different experience than a new chum starting the game from scratch.

mistermutiny89

Gargath wrote: »

Well someone wrote somewhere that for the pledges people generally don't queue by GroupFinder but instead spam general chat, so considering this concerns mainly normal random dungeons queue, the number of trash gear dropped isn't really colossal, at least in my case. Usually I find some trash for deconstruction, maybe 1 or 2 blue or purple gear, also not worth too much. Usually this gear sells long in store and only for traits, even in major trading hubs, when by exploring in a same time we can dig out and sell faster much more interesting and expensive ores and other materials. Because of that I was never so far connecting doing dungeon with earning money... In fact for a real explorer-trader the time needed for dungeon is a time wasted.

I agree that crafting life slows down dramatically when doing dungeons. All eight of my characters have max equipment and enchantment crafting . Since I've been focusing on dungeons... I rarely do the writs anymore and my gold upgrade mats are deteriorated massively. I wasn't aware this was more a normal dungeon finder issue. Should have read more replies. So I'm a fault there. Generally for them I grab the closest guy to me that's a dps and two man them (except black heart??).

But as for drops from dungeons I definitely over flow with them. Perhaps I'm just lucky... Plus I run them getting vet 16 gear meaning stuff like staves can give 200 gold just from selling to a merchant.

failkiwib16_ESO

So the last couple of days I did about 5 dungeons by using grouping tool, and 3 tanks were fake, 3 tanks were a DD with 1hand-and-shield equipped. I joined them both as healer and as a dd, depending on what was needed.

• The first tank forgot to taunt untill the boss was nearly dead, and would use Dragonleap on mobs and spread them all out..
• The second tank had no food buff and constantly died untill a group member provided him with one.
• The third tank was a squishy v1 sorc who constantly took the boss 1cm out of my ultimate range and in mob fights he would rush in, tank 2-3 mobs and stand still untill he died, 0 movement unless enemy was a boss.

Damage Dealer issues

• Lowbie kept killing the adds at the endboss in vCrypt of Hearts. This was kinda cute, I stopped healing him so he could die, and I ressurected him when we got 4 adds spawned. If he had asked about the mechanics, we could't have avoided that.
• I did vSpindleclutch and found out that I did 90% of a boss.

Healer issues:

• v16 healer standing a room away from us, to the point where his heals couldn't reach the group anymore. Constantly standing too far away in mob fights, causing some mobs to aggro and run toward him, so they spread out and we wasted magicka because we had to single target dps the mobs - they were THAT spread out.

I blame ZOS for not having proper tutorials for group content.

Avenias

Well i dont blame ppl for multi roll queuing and trying to play other roles. Most of them are out of desperation to enter the dungeon because the queue is just too long

Xandryah

Xandryah wrote: »

my personal reason why i have given up and don't use the groupfinder are basically:

> normal dungeons are quite difficult to do in blue/green gear as single target dps, especially the common mobs; they have lots of life and lose HP very slowly (you need to click a lot the single target dmg-skills)

> i am rather required to change my bars to aoe-dmg-dps, which is sth i really don't like

> i was unlucky with 2 bosses, where 1 of them was very difficult (healed himself, i think) and 1 was bugged ( i can't find another explanation; tigers kept spawning); this experience and plus other combat-experiences since 2014 made the game rather unattractive (for me) and not worth the risk to invest more time into particular activities.

> rewards probably are not good enough in dungeons either...not sure; tokens or ingame currency would be cool, probably

it's a bit a shame, because the dungeons look very impressive and the lighting too...


> side note: game-UI should provide more info about the things going on during combat (buffs, debuffs, distance, ability-name etcc...> i personally think a customizable and toggle-able UI (for the RP-affecionado and for any traditionalist nay-sayers) , inspired by swtor's one, would benefit the game too (with customizable, striking colors to better understand a combat-situation)

I must confess, that the last time i entered a normal dungeon was maybe 3 months ago...so, my experience is that of 3 months ago...

sth, i still have difficulties with is the Targeting system, which i also would like to change a bit ...with a more locking targeting system (like swtor) where you can tab to the target you wish to dps and then you only have to worry about positioning

Gargath

Swtor has a wonderful marking system, anyone from group can mark either any mobs or any player in group with a well visible and different symbols over their head. This way people can mark bosses and lesser bosses or eg mark each other like healer or tank, to know where ppl are and to better organise the fights. Or mark different bosses if they are in group, before fight to explain between group members, that eg. we first take the sword (mark's name) than shield and finally blaster. Would be awesome to have similar marking system in ESO.

Guppet

Gargath wrote: »

Swtor has a wonderful marking system, anyone from group can mark either any mobs or any player in group with a well visible and different symbols over their head. This way people can mark bosses and lesser bosses or eg mark each other like healer or tank, to know where ppl are and to better organise the fights. Or mark different bosses if they are in group, before fight to explain between group members, that eg. we first take the sword (mark's name) than shield and finally blaster. Would be awesome to have similar marking system in ESO.

How would that work on console? Any changes need to be available on console as well as PC.

The devs are more limited than normal PC only MMO devs.

idk

Avenias wrote: »

I understand every mmorpg with a queue system has this problem, due to overwhelmingly larger no. of dps then tanks or healers, but why is that every mmorpg out there pretty much gave up on it? At least in SWTOR they bothered to make dungeon runs available to everyone immediately by giving u a pocket healer/tank/dps when you enter the dungeon that was enough to fill up the missing role. Its almost a lackluster effort from Zenimax to fix this issue. Come up with creative solutions to address this issue, instead of just closing your eyes and hoping that this will go away.

In swtor one only gets the pocket healer/tank droid if going in solo mode.

For the groups HM flashpoint queue in swtor a dps will be waiting a very long time unless one gets lucky.

caperon

Just queue as tank even being full dps spec. Is not like tanks are required for pledges.

MrJKurayami

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

The problem is that being a tank and healer sucks for stuff like PVP. It's expensive and costly to try and focus on tanking and PVP. And don't try to tell me about the pvp tanks. They are not much more than a shiny speckled turd. ZoS needs to make items and damage scale depending on if your in PVP or not. Like Age of Conan, or other brilliant games, that understand the PVE and the PVP are too utterly different to keep the same exact stats for both.

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