Ridiculously long queue for DPS to queue for dungeon

NBrookus

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

I dont think that the issue is necessarily the lack of incentive to be a tank or a healer, since they get into groups really fast. Healers especially can queue for both dps and healers, while tanks are usually just tanks. Incentives will not change the structure of there being an overwhelming majority of dps, compared to tanks and healers. That is the same for pretty much every mmorpgs, dps is everywhere, but tank/healer is in high demand. I think ZOS should take a long hard look at this and come out with creative solutions to overcome this problem. They can look at other games for inspirations, like SWTOR giving pocket healers/dps/tanks for dungeons, Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) giving out personal hirelings to help out in dungeons, Neverwinter online giving the option to go solo, by reducing the monster strength, etc.

The end goal is the same, to increase participation of dungeons by DPS instead of being stuck in a queue. How you do it, is the big question and i leave it to ZOS devs to come out with creative solutions to overcome it, instead of simply ignoring it.

Problem with this game though is that you can do pretty much every dungeon faster with 1-2 siphonblades and 2 pure dps than having a tank and a dedicated healer with 2 dps. Which is why I've been seeing more and more people just skip tanks completely lately, both in guild and zone chat.

You can do that. I can do that. All my regular chums with ~501 champion points can do that. Probably most of the people who read the forums can do that. But a lot of new players can't do that. These groups do need support toons and teamwork to get through those dungeons when they are first learning them and don't have 25% extra damage, regen and mitigation from CP.

Speaking as a tank, there is zero reason for me to queue in group finder. I get asked to tank a lot more stuff by friends and in guild chat than I could or would want to keep up with. Plus tanking most dungeons is boring when you have high-level, good DDs; everything is dead by the time you finish your rotation to get them rounded up. The healers at least get to DPS during the trash pulls.

You can't just put rewards in the group finder for tanks and healers -- you'd just have more DDs queuing up falsely, which would make the problem worse. I don't know what the solution is, but it could start with ZOS no longer pissing on tanks and calling it rain. Look at the changes in DB. Tanks asked for Heavy Armor buffs... they decided they wanted to make heavy armor more appealing to DDs and nerfed it for tanks. (Still hoping that gets changed.)

I would love to have multiple attribute/CP profiles that I could load up. Oh, we need a tank? Let me load up my tank profile. I'm gonna run on my DPS profile until we get to the last boss/on the Planar Inhibitor/solo/vMA.

Silver_Strider

IDK, in my experience with past MMOs, DPS always had long queue times, due to the lack of tanks/healers or because there was just too many DPS in the game.

Nature of the beast.

nine9six

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

Mordiez wrote: »

The problem is the players all being ego driven wanting to dps all the time

wow, really? The blaming the playerbase argument?

The game feels like just a single player game while lvling to 50, so why wouldn't you run builds geared towards killing mobs fast??

Plus, respec'ing costs a ridiculous amount of cash! I have no motivation to spend that much cash to respec when I don't have much faith in the group finder after waiting 2 hours in queue as a DPS. There is no justification for queues that long in a video game, regardless of group role.

Then enjoy sitting at your desk while staring a Queue.

It will always be the case of "too many DPS'" so they have a long Queue time. My Tank or Healer don't have this problem.

It's really that simple. Really...

Oh_Skrivva

i maxed 3 DD toons before i made a healing toon (also made a tank) due to how difficult it is to get a group together. but after learning the role of healer. i grew to enjoy healing. i probably play my healer the most now due to friends or guilds needing one. i still prefer being a DD but if they need a healer i have no problem playing as one. i will role my tank toon if friends ask (but wont enjoy it )

LadyNalcarya

That's a result of dumbing down the content. Players dont have incentive to play as a tank outside of trials and 2 dungeons (which are gonna be dumbed down too, so it will be only 4 trials). Also there's no incentive to play smart and use anything except light attacks, and for support classes its a pain in the neck to carry such dds. Also, healers are always the first to get blamed so why would they use group tool?

nine9six

Oh_Skrivva wrote: »

i maxed 3 DD toons before i made a healing toon (also made a tank) due to how difficult it is to get a group together. but after learning the role of healer. i grew to enjoy healing. i probably play my healer the most now due to friends or guilds needing one. i still prefer being a DD but if they need a healer i have no problem playing as one. i will role my tank toon if friends ask (but wont enjoy it )

So you're telling me you made a change in the way you played the game, and a result of that change was further appreciation and understanding of a different Class? Additionally, you provide flexibilty in times of need for you and your friends?

I wonder if there's a lesson in there somewhere?

*EDIT*

Have an 'Awesome'.

Teridaxus

Reminds of the thread where a nightblade complains about too many nightblades in cyrodiil lol

Jaronking

I just want them to make it so you don't get kicked out of the Queue when you hop into PVP.If I have to wait 2 hours to find a Group I at least let me do the part of the game I enjoy while I wait.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

And that's even an understatement.
Been queued for a dungeon for 5 hours, nothing...

sigsergv

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

The problem is that the game is so easy that you don't need a tank or a healer.

That's obviously not true, if game is so easy why so much people wait spamming LFG DD for hours?

Lenikus

Wow... I'm impressed
No one showed in this thread to explain the real problem yet.
I'll do it then;
L2P (other roles)

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Not really: Elitism for one, and quite a few run in known groups.

They should remove the preselection screen, make it random.

Shadesofkin

I have a tank, soon will have a healer, the lack of incentive is very real. I don't know what to suggest since every time they try they actually make it worse.

Gargath

I don't understand why system keep telling me that estimated time of awaiting for group is 2m 05s, if I already waited for over an hour - that's annoying.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

As a DPS wanting to do group dungeons or a premium random dungeon (for the 101k xp), you need to join a few guilds and setup your own group (or have a regular group). At minimum, it helps to have at least TWO people in the group before you queue via the grouping tool; even better if one of them is a tank or a healer - partial groups seem to have priority to be completed and put into dungeons.

swirve

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

The most basic reason for this is that ESO uses 4 man groups while other MMOs use 5 and 6 man groups. Only needing 1 healer and 1 tank per every 3 or 4 damage dealers instead of every 2 does a lot to shorten the queues.

Same issue with ff14 which has 4 man dungeons and a grp finder where dps are punished with long wait times.

WalkingLegacy

sigsergv wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

The problem is that the game is so easy that you don't need a tank or a healer.

That's obviously not true, if game is so easy why so much people wait spamming LFG DD for hours?

Because there are just as many bad players out there.

Guppet

Just learn to heal, it doesn't require much different gear compared to DPS, you even get to spend a fair bit of time DPSing. I never have to wait more than 2 minutes for a group. It's also quite fun in ESO, you just have to accept that now and then you'll get fake tanks. So long as your not fake, that's not a problem though, so long as the dps can actually kill stuff.

Lucius_Aelius

I thankfully don't have to worry about this myself, but I fully support this being fixed for those that do have this problem, and ASAP because waiting hours in the Queue is absolutely a gamebreaking issue in my opinion. I can tell you for an absolute fact that I wouldn't put up with that even a little bit, and considering you need monster sets to get some of the best set bonuses I wouldn't even bother with this game at all if it were that much of a pain.

This needs to be given the highest priority and be definitively fixed, no half-measures will do here. I haven't played any other MMOs (Console player only) so I'm personally unfamiliar with what other games have done to manage this issue, but I liked the sound of the suggestion that the group size simply be increased to 5 or 6 for dungeons, with a single Tank and Healer to support the rest being Damage Dealers. That wouldn't necessarily fix it entirely, and it would require a complete rebalancing of all affected group content, but it's the most workable solution I've read about that doesn't require NPC's to be included in the group to fill any gaps.

And incentives for Tanks/Healers aren't the worst idea, but hard to implement without encouraging even more people to lie about their Roles, which is already a major issue considering the Queue times if you have to leave and find a new group. Some sort of method for detecting and/or punishing liars is desperately needed, and absolutely required if incentives are to be added.

Avenias

Gargath wrote: »

I don't understand why system keep telling me that estimated time of awaiting for group is 2m 05s, if I already waited for over an hour - that's annoying.

Thats precious man, i've had the same issues on my stam toons too.

Blevil

Maybe the problem is that dungeons don't require mechanics if the DPS is high enough. I mean when if you burn a boss down too quickly, you get wiped? or like vet Crypt of hearts you don't get the gold key you kill kit before 4 wraiths spawn. The lack of mechanics means lack of the need of tank/healers.

disintegr8

The final nail in the coffin for tanks would be for the game to provide an NPC to "fill the gap". Making it so that tanks are no longer required in dungeons would be the end of the game for me.

I enjoy tanking, but due to PVP not being a good place to take a tank built for dungeons, the only alternative I have (as a vr16 tank) is to do dungeons. The inability to quickly (and cheaply) switch between play styles makes it extremely hard to have a tank doing both.

Some sort of method where you can save more than one set of CP and Skill bar settings for use in different content (dungeons/PVE/PVP) would be really helpful here. I am not suggesting free skill point respecs at the push of a button, the points would still have to be earned. allocations thought out and planned, but once you have allocated the skill points, ability to save preset bars for roles or content would not be that hard to do.

CP's are a bit different as a lot of the trees are very specific in what type of role (magicka/dps, healing/damage, etc.) they are designed for. The ability to save 2 or 3 different previously set patterns so you can quickly change would be nice. You could even have it cost something, 500g or 1000g rather than 3000g every time, to reduce it's abuse, or prevent the ability to switch at certain points in a dungeon run or quest line.

A lot of other suggestions in this thread show that we all see things differently. I think they could make changes to ensure that more of the group content actually require tanks and healers. How to do that when CP and PVP rewards provide experienced players with way over the top abilities and super gear that make most dungeons too easy for them is a challenge.

Maybe non vet dungeons should ignore CP and/or vet gear and bringing everyone to level 50 (rather than V16) might make them better. Running these with level 18, 23, or even 30 something characters when you are a V16 tank can seem like hard work but it is not their fault we have outgrown the content. They are entitled to be there otherwise they would not be grouped there.

Telling people to learn to play other roles is only partly right. At base level, a tank should be able to do damage or maybe do some group healing if things are tight, a DD should have some way to at least restore their own health, and a healer being able to do some damage can all help. How far you take all of these is going to be a matter of opinion, we all see things from our characters perspective.

I have seen 'healers' continue to attack bosses, even when the DD's are dead, seen DD's run ahead to the next mob/boss before the last mob are all dead and seen 'tanks' (after 3 wipes) hiding in bushes using a bow to attack a boss. Maybe they have all followed that suggestion and are simply choosing to 'play the other roles'.

notimetocare

Simple fix: Roll tank?

Shadowfx1970

Tank and Healer always get the blame are the hardest characters to play and get the least amount of love, dps on the other hand are for people who can't play tanks or healers, take from that what you will.

Ch4mpTW

Honestly, I've reached a point that I avoid the activity finder nowadays because of it's errors/flaws. Seriously. Once ZOS fixes it, I'll consider using it. But honestly? It's not worth the headache. Seriously.

Mr.Hmm

Shadowfx1970 wrote: »

Tank and Healer always get the blame are the hardest characters to play and get the least amount of love, dps on the other hand are for people who can't play tanks or healers, take from that what you will.

To me DPS are the people who dont care about anything but High Numbers in their screens.

Elvent

Guppet wrote: »

Just learn to heal, it doesn't require much different gear compared to DPS, you even get to spend a fair bit of time DPSing. I never have to wait more than 2 minutes for a group. It's also quite fun in ESO, you just have to accept that now and then you'll get fake tanks. So long as your not fake, that's not a problem though, so long as the dps can actually kill stuff.

I learned how to heal, did my first normal dungeon as a vet 7 healer just a few minutes ago and left after first boss because of how hard it was to keep everybody alive. I don't even see how it would be possible to heal a vet dungeon if a normal dungeon was that hard? But then again the tank said he was level 15 lowbie so I'm not sure how that scaling works and why vets would be in a dungeon with lowbies but I don't think I'll ever heal again after that experience.

I guess healing isn't for me and I'm just bad at it.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Elvent wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Just learn to heal, it doesn't require much different gear compared to DPS, you even get to spend a fair bit of time DPSing. I never have to wait more than 2 minutes for a group. It's also quite fun in ESO, you just have to accept that now and then you'll get fake tanks. So long as your not fake, that's not a problem though, so long as the dps can actually kill stuff.

I learned how to heal, did my first normal dungeon as a vet 7 healer just a few minutes ago and left after first boss because of how hard it was to keep everybody alive. I don't even see how it would be possible to heal a vet dungeon if a normal dungeon was that hard? But then again the tank said he was level 15 lowbie so I'm not sure how that scaling works and why vets would be in a dungeon with lowbies but I don't think I'll ever heal again after that experience.

I guess healing isn't for me and I'm just bad at it.

If he hadn't been scaled up and was lvl 15 when it was set to v7+ then there's nothing you could've done to keep him alive. As normal dungeons are very easy to heal normally.

phaneub17_ESO

I don't know what you're talking about, I have 2 tanks and 2 healer characters; they all get a dungeon within 5 minutes.

Waffennacht

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I don't know what you're talking about, I have 2 tanks and 2 healer characters; they all get a dungeon within 5 minutes.

Yes... OP said he Wasn't those... he said dps takes forever...

You can solo as dps not tank or healer

You can vMA as dps, not tank or healer

You can small scale 1v1 as dps, not tank or healer

You can do PvE content as a dps, not so as a tank or healer (or at least far more difficult)

Why, when making a character, especially the first time, would you make the single player so difficult on yourself?

This game incentives DPS, especially with end game being all dps checks