Champion rank CANNOT be displayed next to character and @name

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

O K now we are getting to the meat.

10 CP's dont give you stats.Thats important because of scaling in different environments and ZOS isn't granting temporary CP's to scale folks so that is the #1 reason why CP's shouldnt be used.

Thats the whole big problem of this concept. Some folks use CP's differently than others.
CP's can offer additional passive bonuses, but it never gives you a stat change like a level gain and stat point use.

Wrong. CPs allow you to boost stats you previously couldn't, like regeneration, elemental damage etc. on top of resource pool increase. For simplicity, let's say you earn 9 CPs -- that's 3 in each of Mage/Warrior/Thief. When you spend them, no matter how, you'll get raw Magicka/Health/Stamina increase. That's the equivalent of level, veteran rank, whatever you call it.

That isn't a stat attribute.
A stat is one of three, health, stamina and magica and when applied its not the same.

You're speaking of passives and in what you write, that's the problem with trying to use CP as a character or NPC level. There is no basis or logic of what the CP stands for without specific details. So changing a regeneration, resistance, increasing a skill effect or negating the amount of resources required is not in any way a progression that applies evenly regardless of how many CPs a player earns.

Now you're playing with words, and are again wrong.
1. CPs do increase health, stamina and magicka;
2. every character has many more stats than those three:
h5. DerivedStats
* STAT_ARMOR_RATING
* STAT_ATTACK_POWER
* STAT_BLOCK
* STAT_CRITICAL_RESISTANCE
* STAT_CRITICAL_STRIKE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_COLD
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DISEASE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DROWN
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_EARTH
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_FIRE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_GENERIC
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_MAGIC
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_OBLIVION
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_PHYSICAL
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_POISON
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_SHOCK
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_START
* STAT_DODGE
* STAT_HEALING_TAKEN
* STAT_HEALTH_MAX
* STAT_HEALTH_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_HEALTH_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_MAGICKA_MAX
* STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_MISS
* STAT_MITIGATION
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_MAX
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_REGEN_MOVING
* STAT_NONE
* STAT_PARRY
* STAT_PHYSICAL_PENETRATION
* STAT_PHYSICAL_RESIST
* STAT_POWER
* STAT_SPELL_CRITICAL
* STAT_SPELL_MITIGATION
* STAT_SPELL_PENETRATION
* STAT_SPELL_POWER
* STAT_SPELL_RESIST
* STAT_STAMINA_MAX
* STAT_STAMINA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_STAMINA_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_WEAPON_AND_SPELL_DAMAGE
3. I'm not arguing about those other stats. Quite the opposite, actually. I think the ability to shape your character by focusing on more specialized stats is the only good thing about the champion system. Except for the magnitude of the CP bonuses, that is sick. It could have provided for more variety, if it weren't dumbed down to pure power grind.

@Merlight
Sorry its not a play on words. I think you're are discussing a different topic than I. I'm focused on the indicator and how scaling doesn't apply to this new indicator on those "Stats". I think you're discussing what happens when someone applies a CP point to a passive.

The discussion goes about group content where one player has a different CP indicator than the other, so expectations and assumptions apply resulting in omitting players or flocking to other based on the CP indicator.

the results are that CP isn't the indicator that should be used because it doesn't relate to "stats" in the way the current VR scaling applies which is based on health, stamina and magica. Those produce calculations on the gear that make a player scaled. That stats that are changed in scaled in environments are:

Sept 2014 concept of scaling
November2014 (monster health / power scaling)
March 2015 (specific to stat and skill points)

"Accompanying the Champion System are gameplay improvements, fixes, and re-balancing. This will alter the way you’ve previously played as every ability has been amended in some fashion, differences in armor are more pronounced, critical attack and defense are handled differently, and the scale of numbers across the board has changed. Due to these changes, we will be resetting all skill and attribute points."

"Game Re-balance

With the introduction of the Champion System, the basic attributes that make up characters and monsters have been altered. For the most part, these values work the same way they always have, but now have different values and scales.
As an example, Health, Magicka and Stamina each perform the same way they did previously:
Health keeps you alive
Stamina allows you to block, sneak, dodge and use weapon feats
Magicka allows you to cast spells.
We updated the ratios on all stats. Items and stats now give 10% more health than magicka and stamina, when they previously gave 50% more.
For example, instead of 20 health per level and 15 health per stat pick, you now get 156 health per level and 122 health per stat pick.
Additionally, abilities now increase in cost as you gain Veteran Ranks.
Block, dodge, sprint, break free, and crouch all cost slightly more with this increase.
There are a few stats that now work slightly different:
Armor: The amount of mitigation provided by Armor has changed.
A piece of Light Armor grants 1/4th of the mitigation of an equivalent piece of Heavy Armor.
A piece of Medium Armor grants 3/4th of the mitigation of Heavy Armor.
Spell Resistance: Instead of having a base amount of Spell Resistance that grows as you level, Spell Resistance is now provided by Armor on a 1 to 1 basis.
For example, if a piece of gear gives you 2000 Armor, it also gives 2000 Spell Resistance.
Passive skills in both the Light Armor and Heavy Armor skill lines will modify this ratio.
Critical Strike/Spell Critical: Previously, each 10 points of these attributes would give a 1% chance to cause a Critical Hit to their target. This is no longer true and has changed.
The amount of Critical Strike/Spell Critical required to get a 1% increased chance to cause a critical hit now increases per level.
Precise Weapons that have a lower Required Level than the player character than owns it will provide less actual benefit.
A Critical Hit still does 50% greater damage unless modified.
You will now have a base Critical Hit chance of 10%.
Critical Resistance: This attribute no longer reduces the chance to be hit by a Critical hit.
Critical Resistance now reduces the bonus damage caused by a Critical hit, and with enough, can reduce the bonus damage to 0.
The amount of Critical Resistance required to completely eliminate the unmodified bonus damage from a Critical hit is 50 * (your Character Level + your Veteran Rank number).
For example, a VR14 would be 50 * (50 + 14).
As part of the overall rebalance, a certain amount of power in each area was reserved for the Champion System. Completely maxing out any one stat will not only require a lot of work finding or crafting the perfect gear, it will also require a significant investment into a certain star or constellation in the Champion System.

Other Major Gameplay Changes

Synergy abilities now scale off your highest stats that are either stamina or magicka based. "

"Champion System

While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.

Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.
Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.
Points spent in the Mage will enhance magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing."

CP does not work that way because the only way to apply a scaled effect on another player is to quantify the actual effectiveness of the specific CP passives on player selected over another in conjunction with the specific items and skills being used.

Wow that's a whole wall of text but im not getting what you are trying to say.... So you only consider stam/magicka/health as stats? You mention CP arent really stats because even though they increase maximum health/stamina/magicka by ard 18% at 501 CP, they are not the same as putting 1 point into health or mag or stam....? 1 point is like what... 111 points? 18% even at 10k max stam is like 1800.... Thats worth like 16-17 stat points per attribute...?

Even disregarding that isnt health regen a stat? mag regen? stam regen? Phy resist? Impen? weapon damage? Putting 1 point into stam mag or health is nothing compared to just slotting a higher level piece of gear..... And additionally ZOS wants to tie in gear requirements to CP.. It may not be a problem now since the CP for v16 gear is 160... Eventually though they will release a new tier of gear at maybe CP 200 or something. When that happens, there will be trials/content based around that gear cap. So if im forming a group, im going to want people who meet that content's requirements. Ie: CP 200 gear. Wouldnt CP visibility come into play there? Unless ZOS wants to decouple gear from CP I dont see a way around this...

Please read it. It's ZOS patch notes on how champion levels actually work.
It's not an opinion

Don't need to read it. Already know how CP works. What I dont get is what you are trying to say by ctrl C + ctrl V-ing a wall of text from ZOS. What is the point you are trying to make? Considering Im getting a few agrees on my previous post, maybe re-wording it or shortening it might make it easier for us to understand.

What am I trying to say?
- I'm commenting on the problems of cp being displayed and suggesting that instead player character level of 50 should be displayed.

You commented that CP raises stats and I was sharing that it doesn't based on your thoughts that it was my opinion instead of how ZOS actually describes it. Just sharing just in case you hadn't read it. It's not a matter of agrees or what not. It's what's in plain green text and actual in-game and PTS

Vangy · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

O K now we are getting to the meat.

10 CP's dont give you stats.Thats important because of scaling in different environments and ZOS isn't granting temporary CP's to scale folks so that is the #1 reason why CP's shouldnt be used.

Thats the whole big problem of this concept. Some folks use CP's differently than others.
CP's can offer additional passive bonuses, but it never gives you a stat change like a level gain and stat point use.

Wrong. CPs allow you to boost stats you previously couldn't, like regeneration, elemental damage etc. on top of resource pool increase. For simplicity, let's say you earn 9 CPs -- that's 3 in each of Mage/Warrior/Thief. When you spend them, no matter how, you'll get raw Magicka/Health/Stamina increase. That's the equivalent of level, veteran rank, whatever you call it.

That isn't a stat attribute.
A stat is one of three, health, stamina and magica and when applied its not the same.

You're speaking of passives and in what you write, that's the problem with trying to use CP as a character or NPC level. There is no basis or logic of what the CP stands for without specific details. So changing a regeneration, resistance, increasing a skill effect or negating the amount of resources required is not in any way a progression that applies evenly regardless of how many CPs a player earns.

Now you're playing with words, and are again wrong.
1. CPs do increase health, stamina and magicka;
2. every character has many more stats than those three:
h5. DerivedStats
* STAT_ARMOR_RATING
* STAT_ATTACK_POWER
* STAT_BLOCK
* STAT_CRITICAL_RESISTANCE
* STAT_CRITICAL_STRIKE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_COLD
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DISEASE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DROWN
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_EARTH
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_FIRE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_GENERIC
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_MAGIC
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_OBLIVION
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_PHYSICAL
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_POISON
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_SHOCK
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_START
* STAT_DODGE
* STAT_HEALING_TAKEN
* STAT_HEALTH_MAX
* STAT_HEALTH_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_HEALTH_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_MAGICKA_MAX
* STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_MISS
* STAT_MITIGATION
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_MAX
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_REGEN_MOVING
* STAT_NONE
* STAT_PARRY
* STAT_PHYSICAL_PENETRATION
* STAT_PHYSICAL_RESIST
* STAT_POWER
* STAT_SPELL_CRITICAL
* STAT_SPELL_MITIGATION
* STAT_SPELL_PENETRATION
* STAT_SPELL_POWER
* STAT_SPELL_RESIST
* STAT_STAMINA_MAX
* STAT_STAMINA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_STAMINA_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_WEAPON_AND_SPELL_DAMAGE
3. I'm not arguing about those other stats. Quite the opposite, actually. I think the ability to shape your character by focusing on more specialized stats is the only good thing about the champion system. Except for the magnitude of the CP bonuses, that is sick. It could have provided for more variety, if it weren't dumbed down to pure power grind.

@Merlight
Sorry its not a play on words. I think you're are discussing a different topic than I. I'm focused on the indicator and how scaling doesn't apply to this new indicator on those "Stats". I think you're discussing what happens when someone applies a CP point to a passive.

The discussion goes about group content where one player has a different CP indicator than the other, so expectations and assumptions apply resulting in omitting players or flocking to other based on the CP indicator.

the results are that CP isn't the indicator that should be used because it doesn't relate to "stats" in the way the current VR scaling applies which is based on health, stamina and magica. Those produce calculations on the gear that make a player scaled. That stats that are changed in scaled in environments are:

Sept 2014 concept of scaling
November2014 (monster health / power scaling)
March 2015 (specific to stat and skill points)

"Accompanying the Champion System are gameplay improvements, fixes, and re-balancing. This will alter the way you’ve previously played as every ability has been amended in some fashion, differences in armor are more pronounced, critical attack and defense are handled differently, and the scale of numbers across the board has changed. Due to these changes, we will be resetting all skill and attribute points."

"Game Re-balance

With the introduction of the Champion System, the basic attributes that make up characters and monsters have been altered. For the most part, these values work the same way they always have, but now have different values and scales.
As an example, Health, Magicka and Stamina each perform the same way they did previously:
Health keeps you alive
Stamina allows you to block, sneak, dodge and use weapon feats
Magicka allows you to cast spells.
We updated the ratios on all stats. Items and stats now give 10% more health than magicka and stamina, when they previously gave 50% more.
For example, instead of 20 health per level and 15 health per stat pick, you now get 156 health per level and 122 health per stat pick.
Additionally, abilities now increase in cost as you gain Veteran Ranks.
Block, dodge, sprint, break free, and crouch all cost slightly more with this increase.
There are a few stats that now work slightly different:
Armor: The amount of mitigation provided by Armor has changed.
A piece of Light Armor grants 1/4th of the mitigation of an equivalent piece of Heavy Armor.
A piece of Medium Armor grants 3/4th of the mitigation of Heavy Armor.
Spell Resistance: Instead of having a base amount of Spell Resistance that grows as you level, Spell Resistance is now provided by Armor on a 1 to 1 basis.
For example, if a piece of gear gives you 2000 Armor, it also gives 2000 Spell Resistance.
Passive skills in both the Light Armor and Heavy Armor skill lines will modify this ratio.
Critical Strike/Spell Critical: Previously, each 10 points of these attributes would give a 1% chance to cause a Critical Hit to their target. This is no longer true and has changed.
The amount of Critical Strike/Spell Critical required to get a 1% increased chance to cause a critical hit now increases per level.
Precise Weapons that have a lower Required Level than the player character than owns it will provide less actual benefit.
A Critical Hit still does 50% greater damage unless modified.
You will now have a base Critical Hit chance of 10%.
Critical Resistance: This attribute no longer reduces the chance to be hit by a Critical hit.
Critical Resistance now reduces the bonus damage caused by a Critical hit, and with enough, can reduce the bonus damage to 0.
The amount of Critical Resistance required to completely eliminate the unmodified bonus damage from a Critical hit is 50 * (your Character Level + your Veteran Rank number).
For example, a VR14 would be 50 * (50 + 14).
As part of the overall rebalance, a certain amount of power in each area was reserved for the Champion System. Completely maxing out any one stat will not only require a lot of work finding or crafting the perfect gear, it will also require a significant investment into a certain star or constellation in the Champion System.

Other Major Gameplay Changes

Synergy abilities now scale off your highest stats that are either stamina or magicka based. "

"Champion System

While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.

Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.
Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.
Points spent in the Mage will enhance magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing."

CP does not work that way because the only way to apply a scaled effect on another player is to quantify the actual effectiveness of the specific CP passives on player selected over another in conjunction with the specific items and skills being used.

Wow that's a whole wall of text but im not getting what you are trying to say.... So you only consider stam/magicka/health as stats? You mention CP arent really stats because even though they increase maximum health/stamina/magicka by ard 18% at 501 CP, they are not the same as putting 1 point into health or mag or stam....? 1 point is like what... 111 points? 18% even at 10k max stam is like 1800.... Thats worth like 16-17 stat points per attribute...?

Even disregarding that isnt health regen a stat? mag regen? stam regen? Phy resist? Impen? weapon damage? Putting 1 point into stam mag or health is nothing compared to just slotting a higher level piece of gear..... And additionally ZOS wants to tie in gear requirements to CP.. It may not be a problem now since the CP for v16 gear is 160... Eventually though they will release a new tier of gear at maybe CP 200 or something. When that happens, there will be trials/content based around that gear cap. So if im forming a group, im going to want people who meet that content's requirements. Ie: CP 200 gear. Wouldnt CP visibility come into play there? Unless ZOS wants to decouple gear from CP I dont see a way around this...

Please read it. It's ZOS patch notes on how champion levels actually work.
It's not an opinion

Don't need to read it. Already know how CP works. What I dont get is what you are trying to say by ctrl C + ctrl V-ing a wall of text from ZOS. What is the point you are trying to make? Considering Im getting a few agrees on my previous post, maybe re-wording it or shortening it might make it easier for us to understand.

What am I trying to say?
- I'm commenting on the problems of cp being displayed and suggesting that instead player character level of 50 should be displayed.

You commented that CP raises stats and I was sharing that it doesn't based on your thoughts that it was my opinion instead of how ZOS actually describes it. Just sharing just in case you hadn't read it. It's not a matter of agrees or what not. It's what's in plain green text and actual in-game and PTS

Yes so what is your argument for not wanting to display CP? CP and stat points are different yes. But why does that justify not showing CP. For example my arguments for showing at least some information about CP is :

1. Requirements for group existed during vet levels and will continue to exist after CP replaces the vet system. v16 Group LF 2mV16 DPS for vWGT farm or vCOA farm? Sound familiar? These guys are looking for people to helm farm run and were never going to invite people who weren't v16. Simply because they were after the v16 helms or the dropped sets in those dungeons. Getting a v5 toon even when they are scaled is just gimping your group. Without people's CP displayed one would have nooo idea if he/she is grouping with someone who just joined ESO last week (considering how easy it is to get to 50) or if they are grouping up with someone who has been around for years.

2. The other issue is gear equips. It seems CP is going to be the new vet ranks in terms for gear equips. Wont future pledges be scaled around a certain CP? Ie pledge difficulty scales to the group leaders CP? If CP ranks arent displayed then group leader could be CP 501 and a member could be like CP 160... This might not be an issue now, but ill bet soon ZOS will release CP 170 or 180 gear putting us all on the treadmill again. The gap between v15 and v16 gear is huge and ill bet the gap between CP 160 and 170 gear would also follow along these lines. This way they will force us all to regear and play the grind game..... CP ranks need to be displayed or you wouldnt know if someone is capable of doing certain content....

3. Giving people some indication of the power gap in PvP. Ie: a V1 toon even battle levelled is going to have trouble against a v16 toon in most cases. We can draw the analogy in the future via a CP 500 toon equipped with CP 180 gear (when it comes out) against a CP 160 player with CP 160 gear equipped. If all is shown is level 50, the 160 CP&gear player is going to have no idea that he is waaaaaaay out of that other players league. He is going to get destroyed and then come to forums and whine about how his class is so underpowered and how he got hit by WB for 30k damage.....

Bofrari · May 2016

I def want to see how many cp people have especially when grouping I only have 1627 muself.

Vangy · May 2016

JDC1985 wrote: »

I def want to see how many cp people have especially when grouping I only have 1627 muself.

Lol you could quit ESO for 3 years and then come back to find that you still cant spend all your CP LOL!

Enodoc · May 2016

So you may have noticed that so far I have avoided mentioning two things; one of those is the gear that is based on CPs. Put that to the side for a minute, and consider the other, which is a parallel, but something that seems to be less well-known and/or not completely understood - every CP you spend on a constellation increases your Health, Magicka or Stamina by a percentage. The CP attribute modifier looks like this:

from Sorcerer arithmagic by Asayre on Tamriel Foundry
Warrior constellation CPs increase Health, Thief constellation CPs increase Stamina, and Mage constellation CPs increase Magicka. Why do CPs increase attributes at all? No idea. But the fact that they do does not help the case being put forward by those of us who are saying that CPs are about your adaptability and your progression, because this aspect of CP does affect your power, and because of that reason alone, perhaps showing CPs is a good idea. So let's consider what that means, run with it, and then turn it on its head.

Remember that CPs are account wide. So what's so special about Level 50? My hypothetical Level 20 character with 300 CPs (all spent) has way more health, magicka, and stamina than a new Level 20 with no CPs. 13% more, to be exact. Why aren't we able to see those 300 CPs? If you're going to show everyone that my Level 50 has 300 CPs, then it is just as relevant to show everyone that my Level 20 has 300 CPs as well. And where's my Level 20 CP 160 gear? I should be able to equip a more powerful version of Level 20 gear because of my CPs, just like I can equip a more powerful version of Level 50 gear. Why do only Level 50 characters get to have better gear because of their CPs? CPs are account wide, all their benefits should be too.

Hold on though, that means all their drawbacks should be account wide as well. If you have 50 CPs or more above the number of CPs a mob is labelled as, you only get 30% XP from that mob. So why does my Level 20 with 300 CPs still get full XP from Level 20 mobs? They have 0 CPs. As soon as you get 50 CPs or more, you should have your 1-49 mob XP restricted to 30% as well; that's the CP XP rule, so it should apply to everyone.

But of course these things aren't the case.

My Level 20 with 300 CPs that directly affect her power is shown identically to your Level 20 with 0 CPs. So my Level 50 with 300 CPs should also be shown identically to your Level 50, as "Level 50" and nothing more.
There's no XP reduction for my Level 20 attacking 0 CP Level 20 mobs because of her 300 CPs, so there should be no reduction in CP for my Level 50 attacking 0 CP Level 50 mobs either.

The Champion System, as an account-wide, all-levels advancement system, has to be consistent across all levels, and this farce of Level 50 having "special treatment" for some arbitrary reason has to be removed. The differences between my Level 20-CP 300 and your Level 20-CP 0, and my Level 50-CP 300 and your Level 50-CP 0 are the same, yet the way they are handled is different. It needs to be handled the same. All or nothing.

TL;DR:

If you're going to show CPs on Level 50 characters, show them on Level 1-49 characters too, or don't show them on any.
If you're going to restrict XP gained to 30%, that restriction should apply to all levels, or none at all.

Frawr · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

So you may have noticed that so far I have avoided mentioning two things; one of those is the gear that is based on CPs. Put that to the side for a minute, and consider the other, which is a parallel, but something that seems to be less well-known and/or not completely understood - every CP you spend on a constellation increases your Health, Magicka or Stamina by a percentage. The CP attribute modifier looks like this:

from Sorcerer arithmagic by Asayre on Tamriel Foundry
Warrior constellation CPs increase Health, Thief constellation CPs increase Stamina, and Mage constellation CPs increase Magicka. Why do CPs increase attributes at all? No idea. But the fact that they do does not help the case being put forward by those of us who are saying that CPs are about your adaptability and your progression, because this aspect of CP does affect your power, and because of that reason alone, perhaps showing CPs is a good idea. So let's consider what that means, run with it, and then turn it on its head.

Remember that CPs are account wide. So what's so special about Level 50? My hypothetical Level 20 character with 300 CPs (all spent) has way more health, magicka, and stamina than a new Level 20 with no CPs. 13% more, to be exact. Why aren't we able to see those 300 CPs? If you're going to show everyone that my Level 50 has 300 CPs, then it is just as relevant to show everyone that my Level 20 has 300 CPs as well. And where's my Level 20 CP 160 gear? I should be able to equip a more powerful version of Level 20 gear because of my CPs, just like I can equip a more powerful version of Level 50 gear. Why do only Level 50 characters get to have better gear because of their CPs? CPs are account wide, all their benefits should be too.

Hold on though, that means all their drawbacks should be account wide as well. If you have 50 CPs or more above the number of CPs a mob is labelled as, you only get 30% XP from that mob. So why does my Level 20 with 300 CPs still get full XP from Level 20 mobs? They have 0 CPs. As soon as you get 50 CPs or more, you should have your 1-49 mob XP restricted to 30% as well; that's the CP XP rule, so it should apply to everyone.

But of course these things aren't the case.
My Level 20 with 300 CPs that directly affect her power is shown identically to your Level 20 with 0 CPs. So my Level 50 with 300 CPs should also be shown identically to your Level 50, as "Level 50" and nothing more.

There's no XP reduction for my Level 20 attacking 0 CP Level 20 mobs because of her 300 CPs, so there should be no reduction in CP for my Level 50 attacking 0 CP Level 50 mobs either.

The Champion System, as an account-wide, all-levels advancement system, has to be consistent across all levels, and this farce of Level 50 having "special treatment" for some arbitrary reason has to be removed. The differences between my Level 20-CP 300 and your Level 20-CP 0, and my Level 50-CP 300 and your Level 50-CP 0 are the same, yet the way they are handled is different. It needs to be handled the same. All or nothing.

TL;DR:
If you're going to show CPs on Level 50 characters, show them on Level 1-49 characters too, or don't show them on any.

If you're going to restrict XP gained to 30%, that restriction should apply to all levels, or none at all.

I have to agree with all of this.

I would also add that removing this 30% penalty on level 50 would provide a more Elder Scrolls experience because it would be more 'go where you want' rather than the typical 'do it in this order'. This would add a real sense of freedom to the 50+ game.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please suggest this approach.

Rune_Relic · May 2016

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

I actually don't mind showing off my CP... i mean, now that vr are out of the way, how would you know how new a player is?

I worked hard for my CP, and i'd like to be able to show it off, just like my armor that i took long time to craft and perfect.

Typhoios wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Why do people want to hide things? People seem to be so against seeing CP, dps meters etc... If you are a bad player people will know you are a bad player even if they don't see your CP or dps numbers.

Hiding things that are not certain and have little value other than prejudice needs to not be displayed.

CP is not a character level for one
It's also not a determination of how strong, effective or any capability of a player.

Think of what plays not this...skill points, skill ranks, morphs, weapon, armor and skill line unlocks.
Cp has a potential to enhance certain things but then u would need to see stat PTS, skill PTS, skill rank, CP Passives, gear, enchants and all this just to get an idea of their capability.

Since none of that is happening showing CP only is there for prejudice.
Show 50 and maybe brackets for each 100 cp gained and move one.
And with the brackets....that's still questionable

I would support seeing more info on other characters. I'd be fine with an inspect option. It seems like a lot of people are super secretive though.

Agree with that so much! I used to play another game, MMO, in which you could inspect other characters - see what they wear in detail, browse through their achievements. I thought it was pretty cool, and it motivated me as a new player to get a better build, get certain armor styles that looked better than mine.

It's up to you what you make out of it. In general, noone cares about other players unless they are grouped up together and the group is underperforming.

There's far more benefits to it than disadvantages. Just think about it - next time you ask for advice on your build/skill morph in the guild chat - all you need to do is link your profile that shows your armor set, achievements, skills, stats (with options to hide some).

It's all very simple: make it optional.

Add to the settings:

Showcase Champion Points: Yes/No
Allow gear inspection: Yes/No

Problem solved.

I do believe at a bare minimal I do deserve to know everyone's level in my group if we are doing group content. That just like saying I only have a AA degree and is going for a job that requires the skill-set of someone with a MA degree. So in order to get hired I should be able to hide my degree from everyone including the recruiter.

What I can honestly see being happening if ZOS don't show the CP of everyone in the group, doing CP160 vICP and vWGT such hard tier'ed content is people with like 40CPs or 50CPs trying to get into a group of players. Only to wipe 10 to 15 times before people start asking questions about who is not pulling their weight so they can either kick that person or leave.

All that showing CPs does is allows you the player to make a somewhat informed decision on, whether or not you want to run with them or not before wasting time pointlessly. I see no problem with this? Why is this even a issue to begin with, it's just blow my mind that it is.

So you are saying the only jobs available is elite jobs.
So anyone who isnt suitably qualified shouldnt be there.
Problem is there arent purely elite jobs.

The wholepoint of the game is its supposed to be accessible to 100% of the players....not 0.0001%
So yes if you feel people who work in the burger bars need a PhD or someting.
And only those people with PhD should get the job over everyone else.
Then you have a throughly fubar'd mindset on what constitutes an inclusive game.

You dont need to know what Cp, gear, skills, bank balance other people have.
You want to know so that you can classify them and pinpoint their weaknessses.
Then judge them and mock how inferior they are compared to you.

You may enjoy a willy measuring contest.
Highly competitive people do.
Many people dont.
And no you dont 'deserve' to know anything about anyone.
You'll find out when you play with them.
Then you can turn round and say' man you suck noob L2P'.
ie Be true to type.

Vangy · May 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

I actually don't mind showing off my CP... i mean, now that vr are out of the way, how would you know how new a player is?

I worked hard for my CP, and i'd like to be able to show it off, just like my armor that i took long time to craft and perfect.

Typhoios wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Why do people want to hide things? People seem to be so against seeing CP, dps meters etc... If you are a bad player people will know you are a bad player even if they don't see your CP or dps numbers.

Hiding things that are not certain and have little value other than prejudice needs to not be displayed.

CP is not a character level for one
It's also not a determination of how strong, effective or any capability of a player.

Think of what plays not this...skill points, skill ranks, morphs, weapon, armor and skill line unlocks.
Cp has a potential to enhance certain things but then u would need to see stat PTS, skill PTS, skill rank, CP Passives, gear, enchants and all this just to get an idea of their capability.

Since none of that is happening showing CP only is there for prejudice.
Show 50 and maybe brackets for each 100 cp gained and move one.
And with the brackets....that's still questionable

I would support seeing more info on other characters. I'd be fine with an inspect option. It seems like a lot of people are super secretive though.

Agree with that so much! I used to play another game, MMO, in which you could inspect other characters - see what they wear in detail, browse through their achievements. I thought it was pretty cool, and it motivated me as a new player to get a better build, get certain armor styles that looked better than mine.

It's up to you what you make out of it. In general, noone cares about other players unless they are grouped up together and the group is underperforming.

There's far more benefits to it than disadvantages. Just think about it - next time you ask for advice on your build/skill morph in the guild chat - all you need to do is link your profile that shows your armor set, achievements, skills, stats (with options to hide some).

It's all very simple: make it optional.

Add to the settings:

Showcase Champion Points: Yes/No
Allow gear inspection: Yes/No

Problem solved.

I do believe at a bare minimal I do deserve to know everyone's level in my group if we are doing group content. That just like saying I only have a AA degree and is going for a job that requires the skill-set of someone with a MA degree. So in order to get hired I should be able to hide my degree from everyone including the recruiter.

What I can honestly see being happening if ZOS don't show the CP of everyone in the group, doing CP160 vICP and vWGT such hard tier'ed content is people with like 40CPs or 50CPs trying to get into a group of players. Only to wipe 10 to 15 times before people start asking questions about who is not pulling their weight so they can either kick that person or leave.

All that showing CPs does is allows you the player to make a somewhat informed decision on, whether or not you want to run with them or not before wasting time pointlessly. I see no problem with this? Why is this even a issue to begin with, it's just blow my mind that it is.

So you are saying the only jobs available is elite jobs.
So anyone who isnt suitably qualified shouldnt be there.
Problem is there arent purely elite jobs.

The wholepoint of the game is its supposed to be accessible to 100% of the players....not 0.0001%
So yes if you feel people who work in the burger bars need a PhD or someting.
And only those people with PhD should get the job over everyone else.
Then you have a throughly fubar'd mindset on what constitutes an inclusive game.

You dont need to know what Cp, gear, skills, bank balance other people have.
You want to know so that you can classify them and pinpoint their weaknessses.
Then judge them and mock how inferior they are compared to you.

You may enjoy a willy measuring contest.
Highly competitive people do.
Many people dont.
And no you dont 'deserve' to know anything about anyone.
You'll find out when you play with them.
Then you can turn round and say' man you suck noob L2P'.
ie Be true to type.

Don't think hiding CP is the solution to an all-inclusive game... That is just artificial forcing of people to play with people they want to have nothing to do with. A good example would be v16 WGT helm farm run. People doing this run have no intention of carrying a v1 through this. They are there to cheese this as fast as possible and get their helm. Hiding the CP might allow said low CP player to find his way into a group like this doing harder content but he/she is gona get kicked in about 5 minutes when group realises he isnt doing anything useful. It's just going to be a bad experience for both the low CP player and the high CP players in the group. Will just lead to more toxicity.

Just make friends. Once someone likes you, im sure the company would matter more than some number over your head. Forcing people to play with people vastly less experienced isnt the solution. Slapping the world elitist on anything and everything is also absurd. V16 group wanting a v16 DPS for helm farm run is elitist? To me they just want a quick and efficient clear while farming their helm.....

Yeah you can always ask them what their CP is but why hide something like levels.... I mean I can understand why we don't have a gear inspection or a group damage meter but guys... this is getting ridiculous. Asking for peoples level to be displayed (since CP is the new vet ranks) is elitist?

RDMyers65b14_ESO · May 2016

I would prefer not to be able to see CP number. They really don't tell you anything. I am sure that most people would rather run a dungeon with someone who has 200 CP than myself who is over the cap. Why? Because I have been in the dungeons less than a dozen times total. The only reason why I would bother with a dungeon is to get the achievement... but I can tell you where to siege Chal without hitting m. The numbers are meaningless.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Merlight wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

O K now we are getting to the meat.

10 CP's dont give you stats.Thats important because of scaling in different environments and ZOS isn't granting temporary CP's to scale folks so that is the #1 reason why CP's shouldnt be used.

Thats the whole big problem of this concept. Some folks use CP's differently than others.
CP's can offer additional passive bonuses, but it never gives you a stat change like a level gain and stat point use.

Wrong. CPs allow you to boost stats you previously couldn't, like regeneration, elemental damage etc. on top of resource pool increase. For simplicity, let's say you earn 9 CPs -- that's 3 in each of Mage/Warrior/Thief. When you spend them, no matter how, you'll get raw Magicka/Health/Stamina increase. That's the equivalent of level, veteran rank, whatever you call it.

That isn't a stat attribute.
A stat is one of three, health, stamina and magica and when applied its not the same.

You're speaking of passives and in what you write, that's the problem with trying to use CP as a character or NPC level. There is no basis or logic of what the CP stands for without specific details. So changing a regeneration, resistance, increasing a skill effect or negating the amount of resources required is not in any way a progression that applies evenly regardless of how many CPs a player earns.

Now you're playing with words, and are again wrong.
1. CPs do increase health, stamina and magicka;
2. every character has many more stats than those three:
h5. DerivedStats
* STAT_ARMOR_RATING
* STAT_ATTACK_POWER
* STAT_BLOCK
* STAT_CRITICAL_RESISTANCE
* STAT_CRITICAL_STRIKE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_COLD
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DISEASE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_DROWN
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_EARTH
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_FIRE
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_GENERIC
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_MAGIC
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_OBLIVION
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_PHYSICAL
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_POISON
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_SHOCK
* STAT_DAMAGE_RESIST_START
* STAT_DODGE
* STAT_HEALING_TAKEN
* STAT_HEALTH_MAX
* STAT_HEALTH_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_HEALTH_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_MAGICKA_MAX
* STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_MAGICKA_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_MISS
* STAT_MITIGATION
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_MAX
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_MOUNT_STAMINA_REGEN_MOVING
* STAT_NONE
* STAT_PARRY
* STAT_PHYSICAL_PENETRATION
* STAT_PHYSICAL_RESIST
* STAT_POWER
* STAT_SPELL_CRITICAL
* STAT_SPELL_MITIGATION
* STAT_SPELL_PENETRATION
* STAT_SPELL_POWER
* STAT_SPELL_RESIST
* STAT_STAMINA_MAX
* STAT_STAMINA_REGEN_COMBAT
* STAT_STAMINA_REGEN_IDLE
* STAT_WEAPON_AND_SPELL_DAMAGE
3. I'm not arguing about those other stats. Quite the opposite, actually. I think the ability to shape your character by focusing on more specialized stats is the only good thing about the champion system. Except for the magnitude of the CP bonuses, that is sick. It could have provided for more variety, if it weren't dumbed down to pure power grind.

@Merlight
Sorry its not a play on words. I think you're are discussing a different topic than I. I'm focused on the indicator and how scaling doesn't apply to this new indicator on those "Stats". I think you're discussing what happens when someone applies a CP point to a passive.

The discussion goes about group content where one player has a different CP indicator than the other, so expectations and assumptions apply resulting in omitting players or flocking to other based on the CP indicator.

the results are that CP isn't the indicator that should be used because it doesn't relate to "stats" in the way the current VR scaling applies which is based on health, stamina and magica. Those produce calculations on the gear that make a player scaled. That stats that are changed in scaled in environments are:

Sept 2014 concept of scaling
November2014 (monster health / power scaling)
March 2015 (specific to stat and skill points)

"Accompanying the Champion System are gameplay improvements, fixes, and re-balancing. This will alter the way you’ve previously played as every ability has been amended in some fashion, differences in armor are more pronounced, critical attack and defense are handled differently, and the scale of numbers across the board has changed. Due to these changes, we will be resetting all skill and attribute points."

"Game Re-balance

With the introduction of the Champion System, the basic attributes that make up characters and monsters have been altered. For the most part, these values work the same way they always have, but now have different values and scales.
As an example, Health, Magicka and Stamina each perform the same way they did previously:
Health keeps you alive
Stamina allows you to block, sneak, dodge and use weapon feats
Magicka allows you to cast spells.
We updated the ratios on all stats. Items and stats now give 10% more health than magicka and stamina, when they previously gave 50% more.
For example, instead of 20 health per level and 15 health per stat pick, you now get 156 health per level and 122 health per stat pick.
Additionally, abilities now increase in cost as you gain Veteran Ranks.
Block, dodge, sprint, break free, and crouch all cost slightly more with this increase.
There are a few stats that now work slightly different:
Armor: The amount of mitigation provided by Armor has changed.
A piece of Light Armor grants 1/4th of the mitigation of an equivalent piece of Heavy Armor.
A piece of Medium Armor grants 3/4th of the mitigation of Heavy Armor.
Spell Resistance: Instead of having a base amount of Spell Resistance that grows as you level, Spell Resistance is now provided by Armor on a 1 to 1 basis.
For example, if a piece of gear gives you 2000 Armor, it also gives 2000 Spell Resistance.
Passive skills in both the Light Armor and Heavy Armor skill lines will modify this ratio.
Critical Strike/Spell Critical: Previously, each 10 points of these attributes would give a 1% chance to cause a Critical Hit to their target. This is no longer true and has changed.
The amount of Critical Strike/Spell Critical required to get a 1% increased chance to cause a critical hit now increases per level.
Precise Weapons that have a lower Required Level than the player character than owns it will provide less actual benefit.
A Critical Hit still does 50% greater damage unless modified.
You will now have a base Critical Hit chance of 10%.
Critical Resistance: This attribute no longer reduces the chance to be hit by a Critical hit.
Critical Resistance now reduces the bonus damage caused by a Critical hit, and with enough, can reduce the bonus damage to 0.
The amount of Critical Resistance required to completely eliminate the unmodified bonus damage from a Critical hit is 50 * (your Character Level + your Veteran Rank number).
For example, a VR14 would be 50 * (50 + 14).
As part of the overall rebalance, a certain amount of power in each area was reserved for the Champion System. Completely maxing out any one stat will not only require a lot of work finding or crafting the perfect gear, it will also require a significant investment into a certain star or constellation in the Champion System.

Other Major Gameplay Changes

Synergy abilities now scale off your highest stats that are either stamina or magicka based. "

"Champion System

While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.

Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.
Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.
Points spent in the Mage will enhance magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing."

CP does not work that way because the only way to apply a scaled effect on another player is to quantify the actual effectiveness of the specific CP passives on player selected over another in conjunction with the specific items and skills being used.

Wow that's a whole wall of text but im not getting what you are trying to say.... So you only consider stam/magicka/health as stats? You mention CP arent really stats because even though they increase maximum health/stamina/magicka by ard 18% at 501 CP, they are not the same as putting 1 point into health or mag or stam....? 1 point is like what... 111 points? 18% even at 10k max stam is like 1800.... Thats worth like 16-17 stat points per attribute...?

Even disregarding that isnt health regen a stat? mag regen? stam regen? Phy resist? Impen? weapon damage? Putting 1 point into stam mag or health is nothing compared to just slotting a higher level piece of gear..... And additionally ZOS wants to tie in gear requirements to CP.. It may not be a problem now since the CP for v16 gear is 160... Eventually though they will release a new tier of gear at maybe CP 200 or something. When that happens, there will be trials/content based around that gear cap. So if im forming a group, im going to want people who meet that content's requirements. Ie: CP 200 gear. Wouldnt CP visibility come into play there? Unless ZOS wants to decouple gear from CP I dont see a way around this...

Please read it. It's ZOS patch notes on how champion levels actually work.
It's not an opinion

Don't need to read it. Already know how CP works. What I dont get is what you are trying to say by ctrl C + ctrl V-ing a wall of text from ZOS. What is the point you are trying to make? Considering Im getting a few agrees on my previous post, maybe re-wording it or shortening it might make it easier for us to understand.

What am I trying to say?
- I'm commenting on the problems of cp being displayed and suggesting that instead player character level of 50 should be displayed.

You commented that CP raises stats and I was sharing that it doesn't based on your thoughts that it was my opinion instead of how ZOS actually describes it. Just sharing just in case you hadn't read it. It's not a matter of agrees or what not. It's what's in plain green text and actual in-game and PTS

Yes so what is your argument for not wanting to display CP? CP and stat points are different yes. But why does that justify not showing CP. For example my arguments for showing at least some information about CP is :

1. Requirements for group existed during vet levels and will continue to exist after CP replaces the vet system. v16 Group LF 2mV16 DPS for vWGT farm or vCOA farm? Sound familiar? These guys are looking for people to helm farm run and were never going to invite people who weren't v16. Simply because they were after the v16 helms or the dropped sets in those dungeons. Getting a v5 toon even when they are scaled is just gimping your group. Without people's CP displayed one would have nooo idea if he/she is grouping with someone who just joined ESO last week (considering how easy it is to get to 50) or if they are grouping up with someone who has been around for years.

2. The other issue is gear equips. It seems CP is going to be the new vet ranks in terms for gear equips. Wont future pledges be scaled around a certain CP? Ie pledge difficulty scales to the group leaders CP? If CP ranks arent displayed then group leader could be CP 501 and a member could be like CP 160... This might not be an issue now, but ill bet soon ZOS will release CP 170 or 180 gear putting us all on the treadmill again. The gap between v15 and v16 gear is huge and ill bet the gap between CP 160 and 170 gear would also follow along these lines. This way they will force us all to regear and play the grind game..... CP ranks need to be displayed or you wouldnt know if someone is capable of doing certain content....

3. Giving people some indication of the power gap in PvP. Ie: a V1 toon even battle levelled is going to have trouble against a v16 toon in most cases. We can draw the analogy in the future via a CP 500 toon equipped with CP 180 gear (when it comes out) against a CP 160 player with CP 160 gear equipped. If all is shown is level 50, the 160 CP&gear player is going to have no idea that he is waaaaaaay out of that other players league. He is going to get destroyed and then come to forums and whine about how his class is so underpowered and how he got hit by WB for 30k damage.....

@Vangy

1. The whole point of removing VR is this limiting wall based on a VR to access content. While a character does need to progress to 50, an account doesn't need to progress through VRs too as it's silly. It's the same person playing. They would only need to gear progress which Cp has no bearing on.
2. Gear equips....read my signature. I laid out that using the skill lines such as that exist and just extend them past 50 to align with the existing and any new tiers. Once the individual player levels up a weapon or an armor type, they can equip it. Problem is everything else like crafting, stops at 50 so until everything is changed things need to align. CP is not a measurement of gear not should ZOS ever try to make it that because again...CP is not a level as VR and a character level are.
3. CP isn't the same as VR. This power gap can exist among players who both have 300 or even 501. See the whole concept of CP is optional assignment of Passives. The whole mystery of the battle is not knowing the specifics of CP assignments. A numeric CP indicator does nothing so it needs to stay not shown so that CP can be CP and not try to be VR with it can't be as well.

There are my suggestions and other suggestions which honestly all make sense why not to show CP.
anyone who has this idea that CP is leveling, doesn't understand CP. it's also another way ZOS is trying to give ppl something to do as results of their lack of development

CP isn't content nor should it be.
CP is nothing more than a difficulty slider for PvE and for PvP it mixes combat outcomes. That's good. Just have Cp and non CP campaigns. That's why there is a CP cap. Leave well enough alone and finish removing VR properly before trying to create another mess

Merlight · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.
Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.
Points spent in the Mage will enhance magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing.

Multiple people told you this, you quoted it from the patch notes, and still keep denying that CPs increase resource pools just like levels and VRs do?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

You commented that CP raises stats and I was sharing that it doesn't based on your thoughts that it was my opinion instead of how ZOS actually describes it. Just sharing just in case you hadn't read it. It's not a matter of agrees or what not. It's what's in plain green text and actual in-game and PTS

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

CP is not a level as VR and a character level are.

Look. If you have 300 CP allocated, you have more magicka, more health and more stamina than another character who has only 150 CP allocated. If you put half of your CP in the exact same stars as the other person, and the other half in the most stupid stars possible that don't benefit you in any way, you're still more powerful because you have better stats (and that's not even accounting for perks that unlock automatically at 10/30/... CP spent in a constellation). You're not punished for making stupid choices; you're rewarded with a stat increase for every CP you spend.

Enodoc · May 2016

Frawr wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So you may have noticed that so far I have avoided mentioning two things; one of those is the gear that is based on CPs. Put that to the side for a minute, and consider the other, which is a parallel, but something that seems to be less well-known and/or not completely understood - every CP you spend on a constellation increases your Health, Magicka or Stamina by a percentage. The CP attribute modifier looks like this:

from Sorcerer arithmagic by Asayre on Tamriel Foundry
Warrior constellation CPs increase Health, Thief constellation CPs increase Stamina, and Mage constellation CPs increase Magicka. Why do CPs increase attributes at all? No idea. But the fact that they do does not help the case being put forward by those of us who are saying that CPs are about your adaptability and your progression, because this aspect of CP does affect your power, and because of that reason alone, perhaps showing CPs is a good idea. So let's consider what that means, run with it, and then turn it on its head.

Remember that CPs are account wide. So what's so special about Level 50? My hypothetical Level 20 character with 300 CPs (all spent) has way more health, magicka, and stamina than a new Level 20 with no CPs. 13% more, to be exact. Why aren't we able to see those 300 CPs? If you're going to show everyone that my Level 50 has 300 CPs, then it is just as relevant to show everyone that my Level 20 has 300 CPs as well. And where's my Level 20 CP 160 gear? I should be able to equip a more powerful version of Level 20 gear because of my CPs, just like I can equip a more powerful version of Level 50 gear. Why do only Level 50 characters get to have better gear because of their CPs? CPs are account wide, all their benefits should be too.

Hold on though, that means all their drawbacks should be account wide as well. If you have 50 CPs or more above the number of CPs a mob is labelled as, you only get 30% XP from that mob. So why does my Level 20 with 300 CPs still get full XP from Level 20 mobs? They have 0 CPs. As soon as you get 50 CPs or more, you should have your 1-49 mob XP restricted to 30% as well; that's the CP XP rule, so it should apply to everyone.

But of course these things aren't the case.
My Level 20 with 300 CPs that directly affect her power is shown identically to your Level 20 with 0 CPs. So my Level 50 with 300 CPs should also be shown identically to your Level 50, as "Level 50" and nothing more.

There's no XP reduction for my Level 20 attacking 0 CP Level 20 mobs because of her 300 CPs, so there should be no reduction in CP for my Level 50 attacking 0 CP Level 50 mobs either.

The Champion System, as an account-wide, all-levels advancement system, has to be consistent across all levels, and this farce of Level 50 having "special treatment" for some arbitrary reason has to be removed. The differences between my Level 20-CP 300 and your Level 20-CP 0, and my Level 50-CP 300 and your Level 50-CP 0 are the same, yet the way they are handled is different. It needs to be handled the same. All or nothing.

TL;DR:
If you're going to show CPs on Level 50 characters, show them on Level 1-49 characters too, or don't show them on any.

If you're going to restrict XP gained to 30%, that restriction should apply to all levels, or none at all.

I have to agree with all of this.

I would also add that removing this 30% penalty on level 50 would provide a more Elder Scrolls experience because it would be more 'go where you want' rather than the typical 'do it in this order'. This would add a real sense of freedom to the 50+ game.

Right. Many of us assumed that removal of VRs would take away that 'do it in this order' setup. But because of this XP penalty and the fact that mobs have a CP value, this hasn't happened. Level 50 mobs should all have 0 CPs or all have 160 CPs, then this 'order' issue wouldn't exist at all.

For people concerned about difficulty and progression, consider a parallel; Vet Dungeons. Many say that Wayrest Sewers is the easiest, while CoA, ICP, and WGT are the hardest. And yet all of these have the same level mobs; for the sake of argument, say that's VR 16 (or Level 50 +160 CP). The same could be done for all other content. Silver and Gold Zone 1 would have Level 50 +160 CP mobs, and the content would generally be "easier", compared to Silver or Gold Zone 5, where the mobs would also be Level 50 +160 CP but the content generally "harder".

Elsonso · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

So you may have noticed that so far I have avoided mentioning two things; one of those is the gear that is based on CPs. Put that to the side for a minute, and consider the other, which is a parallel, but something that seems to be less well-known and/or not completely understood - every CP you spend on a constellation increases your Health, Magicka or Stamina by a percentage. The CP attribute modifier looks like this:

from Sorcerer arithmagic by Asayre on Tamriel Foundry
Warrior constellation CPs increase Health, Thief constellation CPs increase Stamina, and Mage constellation CPs increase Magicka. Why do CPs increase attributes at all? No idea. But the fact that they do does not help the case being put forward by those of us who are saying that CPs are about your adaptability and your progression, because this aspect of CP does affect your power, and because of that reason alone, perhaps showing CPs is a good idea. So let's consider what that means, run with it, and then turn it on its head.

Remember that CPs are account wide. So what's so special about Level 50? My hypothetical Level 20 character with 300 CPs (all spent) has way more health, magicka, and stamina than a new Level 20 with no CPs. 13% more, to be exact. Why aren't we able to see those 300 CPs? If you're going to show everyone that my Level 50 has 300 CPs, then it is just as relevant to show everyone that my Level 20 has 300 CPs as well. And where's my Level 20 CP 160 gear? I should be able to equip a more powerful version of Level 20 gear because of my CPs, just like I can equip a more powerful version of Level 50 gear. Why do only Level 50 characters get to have better gear because of their CPs? CPs are account wide, all their benefits should be too.

Hold on though, that means all their drawbacks should be account wide as well. If you have 50 CPs or more above the number of CPs a mob is labelled as, you only get 30% XP from that mob. So why does my Level 20 with 300 CPs still get full XP from Level 20 mobs? They have 0 CPs. As soon as you get 50 CPs or more, you should have your 1-49 mob XP restricted to 30% as well; that's the CP XP rule, so it should apply to everyone.

But of course these things aren't the case.
My Level 20 with 300 CPs that directly affect her power is shown identically to your Level 20 with 0 CPs. So my Level 50 with 300 CPs should also be shown identically to your Level 50, as "Level 50" and nothing more.

There's no XP reduction for my Level 20 attacking 0 CP Level 20 mobs because of her 300 CPs, so there should be no reduction in CP for my Level 50 attacking 0 CP Level 50 mobs either.

The Champion System, as an account-wide, all-levels advancement system, has to be consistent across all levels, and this farce of Level 50 having "special treatment" for some arbitrary reason has to be removed. The differences between my Level 20-CP 300 and your Level 20-CP 0, and my Level 50-CP 300 and your Level 50-CP 0 are the same, yet the way they are handled is different. It needs to be handled the same. All or nothing.

TL;DR:
If you're going to show CPs on Level 50 characters, show them on Level 1-49 characters too, or don't show them on any.

If you're going to restrict XP gained to 30%, that restriction should apply to all levels, or none at all.

This is actually the case for removing CPs from 1-49 completely. The Champion System should be reserved for "end game" characters, not every character on the account.

The fact that CPs are allowed to build up a Level 1-49 above what it should be capable of doing is exactly why I limit my use of CPs for my 1-49 characters. They simply become too powerful for the environment they are in. It is already super easy to out level that part of the game, CPs make it worse.

Enodoc · May 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So you may have noticed that so far I have avoided mentioning two things; one of those is the gear that is based on CPs. Put that to the side for a minute, and consider the other, which is a parallel, but something that seems to be less well-known and/or not completely understood - every CP you spend on a constellation increases your Health, Magicka or Stamina by a percentage. The CP attribute modifier looks like this:

from Sorcerer arithmagic by Asayre on Tamriel Foundry
Warrior constellation CPs increase Health, Thief constellation CPs increase Stamina, and Mage constellation CPs increase Magicka. Why do CPs increase attributes at all? No idea. But the fact that they do does not help the case being put forward by those of us who are saying that CPs are about your adaptability and your progression, because this aspect of CP does affect your power, and because of that reason alone, perhaps showing CPs is a good idea. So let's consider what that means, run with it, and then turn it on its head.

Remember that CPs are account wide. So what's so special about Level 50? My hypothetical Level 20 character with 300 CPs (all spent) has way more health, magicka, and stamina than a new Level 20 with no CPs. 13% more, to be exact. Why aren't we able to see those 300 CPs? If you're going to show everyone that my Level 50 has 300 CPs, then it is just as relevant to show everyone that my Level 20 has 300 CPs as well. And where's my Level 20 CP 160 gear? I should be able to equip a more powerful version of Level 20 gear because of my CPs, just like I can equip a more powerful version of Level 50 gear. Why do only Level 50 characters get to have better gear because of their CPs? CPs are account wide, all their benefits should be too.

Hold on though, that means all their drawbacks should be account wide as well. If you have 50 CPs or more above the number of CPs a mob is labelled as, you only get 30% XP from that mob. So why does my Level 20 with 300 CPs still get full XP from Level 20 mobs? They have 0 CPs. As soon as you get 50 CPs or more, you should have your 1-49 mob XP restricted to 30% as well; that's the CP XP rule, so it should apply to everyone.

But of course these things aren't the case.
My Level 20 with 300 CPs that directly affect her power is shown identically to your Level 20 with 0 CPs. So my Level 50 with 300 CPs should also be shown identically to your Level 50, as "Level 50" and nothing more.

There's no XP reduction for my Level 20 attacking 0 CP Level 20 mobs because of her 300 CPs, so there should be no reduction in CP for my Level 50 attacking 0 CP Level 50 mobs either.

The Champion System, as an account-wide, all-levels advancement system, has to be consistent across all levels, and this farce of Level 50 having "special treatment" for some arbitrary reason has to be removed. The differences between my Level 20-CP 300 and your Level 20-CP 0, and my Level 50-CP 300 and your Level 50-CP 0 are the same, yet the way they are handled is different. It needs to be handled the same. All or nothing.

TL;DR:
If you're going to show CPs on Level 50 characters, show them on Level 1-49 characters too, or don't show them on any.

If you're going to restrict XP gained to 30%, that restriction should apply to all levels, or none at all.

This is actually the case for removing CPs from 1-49 completely. The Champion System should be reserved for "end game" characters, not every character on the account.

The fact that CPs are allowed to build up a Level 1-49 above what it should be capable of doing is exactly why I limit my use of CPs for my 1-49 characters. They simply become too powerful for the environment they are in. It is already super easy to out level that part of the game, CPs make it worse.

I dont necessarily disagree with that, but if you remove CPs from 1-49 characters then you're almost back to what VRs were. When the Champion System was first released and announced as the replacement for VRs, it was looking like it was going to be a great system. Nothing was tied to it, and yet it was still a good reward for progression. That system, the one that was supposed to replace VRs, doesn't exist any more; what we have is some Daedric hybrid of both, the Champion system significantly corrupted by the system it replaced. Kinda like Baron Montclair or Vicereeve Pelidil.

Bfish22090 · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So you may have noticed that so far I have avoided mentioning two things; one of those is the gear that is based on CPs. Put that to the side for a minute, and consider the other, which is a parallel, but something that seems to be less well-known and/or not completely understood - every CP you spend on a constellation increases your Health, Magicka or Stamina by a percentage. The CP attribute modifier looks like this:

from Sorcerer arithmagic by Asayre on Tamriel Foundry
Warrior constellation CPs increase Health, Thief constellation CPs increase Stamina, and Mage constellation CPs increase Magicka. Why do CPs increase attributes at all? No idea. But the fact that they do does not help the case being put forward by those of us who are saying that CPs are about your adaptability and your progression, because this aspect of CP does affect your power, and because of that reason alone, perhaps showing CPs is a good idea. So let's consider what that means, run with it, and then turn it on its head.

Remember that CPs are account wide. So what's so special about Level 50? My hypothetical Level 20 character with 300 CPs (all spent) has way more health, magicka, and stamina than a new Level 20 with no CPs. 13% more, to be exact. Why aren't we able to see those 300 CPs? If you're going to show everyone that my Level 50 has 300 CPs, then it is just as relevant to show everyone that my Level 20 has 300 CPs as well. And where's my Level 20 CP 160 gear? I should be able to equip a more powerful version of Level 20 gear because of my CPs, just like I can equip a more powerful version of Level 50 gear. Why do only Level 50 characters get to have better gear because of their CPs? CPs are account wide, all their benefits should be too.

Hold on though, that means all their drawbacks should be account wide as well. If you have 50 CPs or more above the number of CPs a mob is labelled as, you only get 30% XP from that mob. So why does my Level 20 with 300 CPs still get full XP from Level 20 mobs? They have 0 CPs. As soon as you get 50 CPs or more, you should have your 1-49 mob XP restricted to 30% as well; that's the CP XP rule, so it should apply to everyone.

But of course these things aren't the case.
My Level 20 with 300 CPs that directly affect her power is shown identically to your Level 20 with 0 CPs. So my Level 50 with 300 CPs should also be shown identically to your Level 50, as "Level 50" and nothing more.

There's no XP reduction for my Level 20 attacking 0 CP Level 20 mobs because of her 300 CPs, so there should be no reduction in CP for my Level 50 attacking 0 CP Level 50 mobs either.

The Champion System, as an account-wide, all-levels advancement system, has to be consistent across all levels, and this farce of Level 50 having "special treatment" for some arbitrary reason has to be removed. The differences between my Level 20-CP 300 and your Level 20-CP 0, and my Level 50-CP 300 and your Level 50-CP 0 are the same, yet the way they are handled is different. It needs to be handled the same. All or nothing.

TL;DR:
If you're going to show CPs on Level 50 characters, show them on Level 1-49 characters too, or don't show them on any.

If you're going to restrict XP gained to 30%, that restriction should apply to all levels, or none at all.

This is actually the case for removing CPs from 1-49 completely. The Champion System should be reserved for "end game" characters, not every character on the account.

The fact that CPs are allowed to build up a Level 1-49 above what it should be capable of doing is exactly why I limit my use of CPs for my 1-49 characters. They simply become too powerful for the environment they are in. It is already super easy to out level that part of the game, CPs make it worse.

I dont necessarily disagree with that, but if you remove CPs from 1-49 characters then you're almost back to what VRs were. When the Champion System was first released and announced as the replacement for VRs, it was looking like it was going to be a great system. Nothing was tied to it, and yet it was still a good reward for progression. That system, the one that was supposed to replace VRs, doesn't exist any more; what we have is some Daedric hybrid of both, the Champion system significantly corrupted by the system it replaced. Kinda like Baron Montclair or Vicereeve Pelidil.

LOL best comment ever

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So you may have noticed that so far I have avoided mentioning two things; one of those is the gear that is based on CPs. Put that to the side for a minute, and consider the other, which is a parallel, but something that seems to be less well-known and/or not completely understood - every CP you spend on a constellation increases your Health, Magicka or Stamina by a percentage. The CP attribute modifier looks like this:

from Sorcerer arithmagic by Asayre on Tamriel Foundry
Warrior constellation CPs increase Health, Thief constellation CPs increase Stamina, and Mage constellation CPs increase Magicka. Why do CPs increase attributes at all? No idea. But the fact that they do does not help the case being put forward by those of us who are saying that CPs are about your adaptability and your progression, because this aspect of CP does affect your power, and because of that reason alone, perhaps showing CPs is a good idea. So let's consider what that means, run with it, and then turn it on its head.

Remember that CPs are account wide. So what's so special about Level 50? My hypothetical Level 20 character with 300 CPs (all spent) has way more health, magicka, and stamina than a new Level 20 with no CPs. 13% more, to be exact. Why aren't we able to see those 300 CPs? If you're going to show everyone that my Level 50 has 300 CPs, then it is just as relevant to show everyone that my Level 20 has 300 CPs as well. And where's my Level 20 CP 160 gear? I should be able to equip a more powerful version of Level 20 gear because of my CPs, just like I can equip a more powerful version of Level 50 gear. Why do only Level 50 characters get to have better gear because of their CPs? CPs are account wide, all their benefits should be too.

Hold on though, that means all their drawbacks should be account wide as well. If you have 50 CPs or more above the number of CPs a mob is labelled as, you only get 30% XP from that mob. So why does my Level 20 with 300 CPs still get full XP from Level 20 mobs? They have 0 CPs. As soon as you get 50 CPs or more, you should have your 1-49 mob XP restricted to 30% as well; that's the CP XP rule, so it should apply to everyone.

But of course these things aren't the case.
My Level 20 with 300 CPs that directly affect her power is shown identically to your Level 20 with 0 CPs. So my Level 50 with 300 CPs should also be shown identically to your Level 50, as "Level 50" and nothing more.

There's no XP reduction for my Level 20 attacking 0 CP Level 20 mobs because of her 300 CPs, so there should be no reduction in CP for my Level 50 attacking 0 CP Level 50 mobs either.

The Champion System, as an account-wide, all-levels advancement system, has to be consistent across all levels, and this farce of Level 50 having "special treatment" for some arbitrary reason has to be removed. The differences between my Level 20-CP 300 and your Level 20-CP 0, and my Level 50-CP 300 and your Level 50-CP 0 are the same, yet the way they are handled is different. It needs to be handled the same. All or nothing.

TL;DR:
If you're going to show CPs on Level 50 characters, show them on Level 1-49 characters too, or don't show them on any.

If you're going to restrict XP gained to 30%, that restriction should apply to all levels, or none at all.

This is actually the case for removing CPs from 1-49 completely. The Champion System should be reserved for "end game" characters, not every character on the account.

The fact that CPs are allowed to build up a Level 1-49 above what it should be capable of doing is exactly why I limit my use of CPs for my 1-49 characters. They simply become too powerful for the environment they are in. It is already super easy to out level that part of the game, CPs make it worse.

I dont necessarily disagree with that, but if you remove CPs from 1-49 characters then you're almost back to what VRs were. When the Champion System was first released and announced as the replacement for VRs, it was looking like it was going to be a great system. Nothing was tied to it, and yet it was still a good reward for progression. That system, the one that was supposed to replace VRs, doesn't exist any more; what we have is some Daedric hybrid of both, the Champion system significantly corrupted by the system it replaced. Kinda like Baron Montclair or Vicereeve Pelidil.

This is exactly my point of view as well
@Enodoc

Denidil · May 2016

I disagree with pretty much everything Enodoc is saying in this thread.

Enodoc - you're the type of person that advocates for "participation trophies"

Enodoc · May 2016

Denidil wrote: »

I disagree with pretty much everything Enodoc is saying in this thread.

Enodoc - you're the type of person that advocates for "participation trophies"

Yes, well, thank you for telling everyone what my view is. But they can read that for themselves. What's your view on the situation? Or should I start making assumptions too?

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

I don't understand why ESO live had a VR segment. They literally just went over PTS current state.
Yes I'm complaining because it's been over a month since the last ESO live and nothing relevant was shared that we couldn't read.

I do understand pole don't come or read the forums so that's not an issue to go over that content but there was nothing new shared. B

Elsonso · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't understand why ESO live had a VR segment. They literally just went over PTS current state.
Yes I'm complaining because it's been over a month since the last ESO live and nothing relevant was shared that we couldn't read.

I do understand pole don't come or read the forums so that's not an issue to go over that content but there was nothing new shared. B

The PS4 and XBox people have no idea what is going on with PTS at the moment, unless the stop in here. They have not seen PTS unless the watch a stream or ESO Live.

Denidil · May 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Denidil wrote: »

I disagree with pretty much everything Enodoc is saying in this thread.

Enodoc - you're the type of person that advocates for "participation trophies"

Yes, well, thank you for telling everyone what my view is. But they can read that for themselves. What's your view on the situation? Or should I start making assumptions too?

I think all the worrying about "people will feel bad because someone has more CP than them" is utterly ridiculous. CP should be displayed.

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

It can.

Proof: it will.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I don't understand why ESO live had a VR segment. They literally just went over PTS current state.
Yes I'm complaining because it's been over a month since the last ESO live and nothing relevant was shared that we couldn't read.

I do understand pole don't come or read the forums so that's not an issue to go over that content but there was nothing new shared. B

The PS4 and XBox people have no idea what is going on with PTS at the moment, unless the stop in here. They have not seen PTS unless the watch a stream or ESO Live.

That's understood for those only on console
My point and comment was clear on that but as far as any forthcoming info for all platforms, this was the time to announce plans. It's just that the show is becoming less and less meaningful.

Cathexis · May 2016

Just play on the non-cp campaign. Problem solved.

bhlegit · May 2016

the amount of cp one has over 501 is irrelevant becasue we cannot use them until they raise cap. The nameplates are ugly now and too big - they should make a little symbol for 501 and for 160, and a more generic symbol for every 100cps up to cap. This would satisfy all sides of this argument and also make the nameplates look better.

rootimus · May 2016

Bfish22090 wrote: »

This will created elitism among end-game content users.

No, it won't. The genuinely elitist players already are.

Bfish22090 wrote: »

You are going to start seeing groups that requires 501 cps instead of v16.

Big deal. If you're not good enough for them because they're elitist, find decent people to play with. You'll likely enjoy the game more that way.

Bfish22090 wrote: »

people wont group with you if youre way below cap.

As a member of the sub-set "people", as defined by you, yes, they really will group with you regardless of how many CP you have.

Bfish22090 wrote: »

this is a very bad change and cannot go live

Why? Nothing in your post explains how this is so.

starkerealm · May 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

It can.

Proof: it will.

It shouldn't.

Proof: eh... whatever?

To be fair, I'm only talking about the @name showing up as part of the hover over. That's just kind of awkward and out of place. I'm fine with people's CR being visible on the new system.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

bhlegit wrote: »

the amount of cp one has over 501 is irrelevant becasue we cannot use them until they raise cap. The nameplates are ugly now and too big - they should make a little symbol for 501 and for 160, and a more generic symbol for every 100cps up to cap. This would satisfy all sides of this argument and also make the nameplates look better.

This, pretty much.

Vangy · May 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

bhlegit wrote: »

the amount of cp one has over 501 is irrelevant becasue we cannot use them until they raise cap. The nameplates are ugly now and too big - they should make a little symbol for 501 and for 160, and a more generic symbol for every 100cps up to cap. This would satisfy all sides of this argument and also make the nameplates look better.

This, pretty much.

I can agree with this too. Dosent need to be exact CP shown. Just a general indication is fine.

Glamdring · May 2016

I dont like CP being shown, i cant hide im at CAP anymore and that i killed u purely by skill.