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Why is the content so easy?
-
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypU8EoXFxo
minute 21 and following is where it is said.
Thanks for the link
my question is though what about the constant scaling down of difficulty in open world?
They told you - just listen to what they say from minute 21 and following on - it is not about a certain location, but overall in the game world.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.
The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.
And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.
And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?
Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.
There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.
Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.
My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.
Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.
Can you quantify that.
What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.
Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.
Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it
minute 21 and following is where it is said.
In regard to this video. I think it is an incentive issue rather than a difficulty issue. It's not that people can't do it, it just isn't really worth doing to many of them. Players basically go "Hmmmm I can learn challenging content and then do it 300 times for the negligibly/arguably better scathing mage..... or I can just go spend 2 minutes crafting some Julianos or Twice-born."
What he is saying is they cannot justify making content that difficult if only a few players actually complete it. They want things to be more accessible. Its only two dungeons also that were the most difficult.
Right and I am saying that is incorrect. There just isn't much incentive to push through the dungeons. The drop rate is horrible. The gear is BOP. CoA sets are v14 and ICP/WGT sets are either worse or slightly better than easier to obtain alternatives.
You cant say that is incorrect lol. You dont work for ZOS. It isnt there isnt an incentive to do those TWO dungeons. Not all dungeons just those two. Making them slightly easier which is not nerfing them. They will still be hard according to rich lambert. Its minor changes you guys are making a big deal about.1 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just wonder when people will finally realize, that this game does not have an end game, just an end of game.1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just wonder when people will finally realize, that this game does not have an end game, just an end of game.
It used to though.
Although by now I'm kind of inclined to agree with you unfortunately. I just don't see how can ZOS see it as a good thing. You'd think that they'd want people to reach endgame and keep playing and paying, not reach end of the game and move onto another game...0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just wonder when people will finally realize, that this game does not have an end game, just an end of game.
They would have been really bored with Ultima Online because basically you started out at end game lol. There was noone to tell you what to do. No quests or anything like that. Just a world for you to do what you want. I ran one of the biggest auction houses on the great lakes server. The game didnt come with an auction house but we did live auctions with live bidding. It became an event where people would dress in the most rare gear and fight each other for deals.
All this done without one bit of developer help. The only thing I got was I won a keep that was partially in the guard zone so I didnt have to hire security to guard my customers from PKs and thieves.
These days people require 24/7 hand holding in games. Its really kind of sad.2 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I think it is more like a menu gastronomique - it has many stages of servings, each of them is highly delicious and exquisite, but when you get to the coffee stage, this is end of the meal. And those "competitive players" are those, who think that the coffee stage is the real deal, rushing through the other stages without to really enjoy those and when they finally reach the coffee stage, they discover that there is nothing else on the menu - what they rushed through was the content - and so instead of the expected end game, there is just end of game - until the next DLC will be out, but they will do the same with that, consume it in an instant and there is not even a coffee stage after that - again end of game, instead of end game.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.
The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.
And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.
And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?
Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.
There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.
Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.
My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.
Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.
Can you quantify that.
What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.
Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.
Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it
minute 21 and following is where it is said.
In regard to this video. I think it is an incentive issue rather than a difficulty issue. It's not that people can't do it, it just isn't really worth doing to many of them. Players basically go "Hmmmm I can learn challenging content and then do it 300 times for the negligibly/arguably better scathing mage..... or I can just go spend 2 minutes crafting some Julianos or Twice-born."
What he is saying is they cannot justify making content that difficult if only a few players actually complete it. They want things to be more accessible. Its only two dungeons also that were the most difficult.
Right and I am saying that is incorrect. There just isn't much incentive to push through the dungeons. The drop rate is horrible. The gear is BOP. CoA sets are v14 and ICP/WGT sets are either worse or slightly better than easier to obtain alternatives.
You cant say that is incorrect lol. You dont work for ZOS. It isnt there isnt an incentive to do those TWO dungeons. Not all dungeons just those two. Making them slightly easier which is not nerfing them. They will still be hard according to rich lambert. Its minor changes you guys are making a big deal about.
Sure I can definitely opine that ZOS is wrong. It's not like they have never been wrong. When the DLC first launched scathing mage was not even in the same ballpark as a crafted set, so why would people bother? Fortunately, the set was recently improved, and due to that I have noticed more people running vICP.
What Rich said is not accurate. They are not slightly easier. The dungeons are complete easy mode and nearly soloable.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
bertenburnyb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭WTB Tamriel pre-VR-nerfHaze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer
Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)1 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.Edited by Volkodav on May 4, 2016 2:11PM1 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypU8EoXFxo
minute 21 and following is where it is said.
Thanks for the link
my question is though what about the constant scaling down of difficulty in open world?
They told you - just listen to what they say from minute 21 and following on - it is not about a certain location, but overall in the game world.
I didnt hear anything about open world difficulty only dungeons. they talk about dungeon difficulty again at 46.At least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rypU8EoXFxo
minute 21 and following is where it is said.
Thanks for the link
my question is though what about the constant scaling down of difficulty in open world?
They told you - just listen to what they say from minute 21 and following on - it is not about a certain location, but overall in the game world.
I didnt hear anything about open world difficulty only dungeons. they talk about dungeon difficulty again at 46.
It is between the "lines", you have to abstract from the actual words and see the meaning of it, not just the words.0 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Lysette & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
Ok so if the definition of too difficult is that not enough people are completing.
What is the definition of too easy?At least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*1 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭phaneub17_ESO wrote: »You could try to, you know, reset all your Champion points and not spend a single one. Just leave them open without allocating a single one.
If you do a dungeon naked all the while knowing you could be wearing armor then you're just creating a fake difficulty. There should be purpose for end game players and people who have not reached that stage shouldn't be complaining about content that is not yet meant for them. Do you want a game or a sunday afternoon walk that makes you fall asleep?
All the work on balance that goes into MMOs is there to ultimately create a challenge, not to adore visual effects, not for killing your time and certainly not to waltz through everything like it's nothing. It's just wrong.Edited by Nyx2 on May 4, 2016 2:17PM2 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »@Lysette & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
Ok so if the definition of too difficult is that not enough people are completing.
What is the definition of too easy?
Those two terms are relative.One persons "easy" is another person's "hard".2 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »@Lysette & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
Ok so if the definition of too difficult is that not enough people are completing.
What is the definition of too easy?
All they want is that people play their content, because they put work into it and do not want to waste that on just a few people. If the zone has no value, like Craglorn, they have to redo it, and they have this in mind with Craglorn. That is a case of too annoying though. And they did as well react to complains about the IC - and introduce the district capture mechanics with benefits for district owners - I think that is a very good change.Edited by Lysette on May 4, 2016 2:21PM1 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »@Lysette & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
Ok so if the definition of too difficult is that not enough people are completing.
What is the definition of too easy?
Those two terms are relative.One persons "easy" is another person's "hard".
Your answer is an easy way out.
Well we are having too difficult defined here as "not enough people completing the content, the devs are backing this with data, therefore dungeons get a nerf".
So what is the other end of the scale?
Many of us are saying things are too easy. others are saying thats fine because of the above statement.
So to those people - when does it become too easy? if there is a too difficult there must be a too easy.
Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on May 4, 2016 2:23PMAt least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »@Lysette & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO
Ok so if the definition of too difficult is that not enough people are completing.
What is the definition of too easy?
Those two terms are relative.One persons "easy" is another person's "hard".
Your answer is an easy way out.
Well we are having too difficult defined here as "not enough people completing the content, the devs are backing this with data, therefore dungeons get a nerf".
So what is the other end of the scale?
Many of us are saying things are too easy. others are saying thats fine because of the above statement.
So to those people - when does it become too easy? if there is a too difficult here must be a too easy.
It is too easy when people leave the game because they are bored - as long as more are coming in than those leaving there is no "too easy". You underestimate the amount of people, who just want to have an easy go through the content and enjoy scenery and that they can accomplish something without to have to min/max. And with hybrid builds and skill points spent on non-combat skills, the content is not too easy. Not all play like you do nor would they want to.
Edit: or to put it differently - you think that game is like a wrestling arena - whereas in fact it is more like disney world, a theme park, not a competitive environment. It has a playground for those as well, but well ghettoed.Edited by Lysette on May 4, 2016 2:32PM2 -
Czirne✭✭✭✭try to do VMA with white gear and no CP, just for a challenge
its fun I believe in lagless Cyrodiil!0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.0 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I think you have a distorted view on what an average person is - they are far below what you think they are capable of. A lot cannot even do the content, which is meant for their level, especially not as newbies.Edited by Lysette on May 4, 2016 2:42PM2 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »
Not the games fault. It was made for every level,not just level V16s,wasnt it?:)
Exactly. It was made for everyone, so v16s should have some content as well. If there isn't any, it's very much the game's fault(or you can say it's my fault for, well, playing the game, reaching v16 and completing all the 10 vet dungeons and 3/4 Trials we have o_o).
Well,just what would you suggest? Stop making content that lower levels can enjoy? Only new content for level V16 players? Well,without the Vet rank soon. Those kids and newbies wont be able to play your special content. ZOS wants to keep those players who have the world to conquor and explore.They arent worried about those who have hit the ceiling and want more. They can only do so much with a game.Go so far.Every game can only take you to a certain height. I've been level 85 in WoW and once you get there it's pretty same same.Nothing spectacular really. Just people running around showing off their rides,pets,and gear. People still play it just fine.They run a new character,..just like I did.Once they reach the top,they start over.Same as this game.Same as most games.The top is the top.No more than that.
For starters I'd suggest scaling the already existing content to where it can actually be fun or at least have meaningful rewards. (v)DSA, AA and HR are already there, can't be that hard to scale. They did scale all vet dungeons in one update after all.
I would also suggest adding new (vet) dungeons more often than once a year.
As it stands, last dungeons we had were with IC on 1st September. WGT and ICP. Okay, cool, whole 2 dungeons, fun mechanics, though nerfed time and again...then we had Wrothgar. Lots of solo questing, one solo(!!!) laggy Trial. Then TG. Some solo questing, one 12-man Trial(good thing really, but not exactly 4 man content). Then DB. Some solo questing. Scaling of one old Trial(which shouldn't even be part of a DLC, I just fail to see why all Trials and DSA are not scaled yet).
DB is gonna be when...start of June, give or take? So next DLC, where we MIGHT finally get some 4 man content, will be just about a year away from IC. Great job for giving everyone something to do imo /sarcasm
I'd also strictly advise against nerfing current content and instead for incentivizing people to learn it but seems ZOS is religiously against that.
The idea of adding new vet dungeons,or the equivalent,would be a great idea. Also,if they added a few challenging arenas and delves for groups only,that too would work.
I dont agree with nerfing,but I dont agree with raising the levels of difficulty for lower levels either.If things are too hard for new players,they wont be inspired,they'll get tired of trying and give up.Incentives arent making things so hard that you just cant do it unless you are an elite player.Incentives are things that make you want to play and learn.This isnt good for the game.It might please you,as one who wants hard core content,but it wont please that majority who just want good plain old fun.A distraction from RL. Which is what most players want. Not all are those gamers who are in it for the challenge.
It's one thing to be told if you learn to drive you can have a car.That's an incentive to learn. Its another being told that even if you learn to drive,you cant have a car until your 50.Who the hell wants to learn to drive with that age limit over your head.Same with level V16 content as you suppose it.
Well, they don't need to up it too much, just up it to reasonable levels instead of having it so the below average person can solo most group dungeons by themselves....
I can agree with this.I mean if it says group,dont go soloing it if you know you arent even near the level of skills needed to get through it.
Or,..try it and die.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »If the black slopes had noone using them but were costing the company to maintain wouldnt it be prudent to look at changing the difficulty of the run? So more people can enjoy it? Make more money.
The only thing is that your analogy doesn't exist. The fact is that people do ski red and black, they do game challenging, difficult, easy, immersive etc content.
And when you have a resort with no blacks and no reds you don't get many skiers. I ski as well as game.
And who ever heard of a resort deciding to turn all their black and red slopes into blue ones?
Resorts with only blue and greens tend to be the lower altitude, cheaper ones. Is that what we want? No heights to aspire too, nothing to dip the tips of our skis and boards onto that gives us a thrill, that tests our imagination, that makes us aspire to improve our technique and go into that shop and upgrade our gear.
There is always the need for speed, not all of us are happy with cruising a blue - all of the time.
Lets not be under any illusions we are talking about the removal of red slopes too in terms of open world content and 4 player dungeons in ESO. We shoudl not be in a situation where people are doing 4 man dungeons solo, which is happening right now.
My analogy does hit because its straight from ZOS mouth. They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it. They spend money on this stuff so people will use it. How do I justify making another hard instance when the one I already made gets little use? Its hard to get approval in a budget for something like that. So they lowered the difficulty to make it more accessible. I believe they knew this would not please everyone but it will please more than it displeases it seems.
Hold your horses. Where have ZOS ever said "They are adjusting slightly the difficulty due to the fact not very many people bother with it." ?? Thats a loaded sentence.
Can you quantify that.
What they say in patch notes is for WGT and ICP only - We adjusted the difficulty in both Normal and Veteran versions, which will result in an overall reduction in difficulty for both versions." And that's all they say.
Well, I guess he is referring to the transcript from the latest event - it will be uploaded soon, said ZOS. And there it was said, that they use data from actual gameplay and adjust difficulty of less completed quests and tasks so, that more people can do it. Their intention is to adjust it so, that a lot of people can do the content, not just a few.
Edit: Ah I see, they uploaded something, I guess this is it
minute 21 and following is where it is said.
In regard to this video. I think it is an incentive issue rather than a difficulty issue. It's not that people can't do it, it just isn't really worth doing to many of them. Players basically go "Hmmmm I can learn challenging content and then do it 300 times for the negligibly/arguably better scathing mage..... or I can just go spend 2 minutes crafting some Julianos or Twice-born."
What he is saying is they cannot justify making content that difficult if only a few players actually complete it. They want things to be more accessible. Its only two dungeons also that were the most difficult.
Right and I am saying that is incorrect. There just isn't much incentive to push through the dungeons. The drop rate is horrible. The gear is BOP. CoA sets are v14 and ICP/WGT sets are either worse or slightly better than easier to obtain alternatives.
You cant say that is incorrect lol. You dont work for ZOS. It isnt there isnt an incentive to do those TWO dungeons. Not all dungeons just those two. Making them slightly easier which is not nerfing them. They will still be hard according to rich lambert. Its minor changes you guys are making a big deal about.
Sure I can definitely opine that ZOS is wrong. It's not like they have never been wrong. When the DLC first launched scathing mage was not even in the same ballpark as a crafted set, so why would people bother? Fortunately, the set was recently improved, and due to that I have noticed more people running vICP.
What Rich said is not accurate. They are not slightly easier. The dungeons are complete easy mode and nearly soloable.
Hyperbole doesnt help the situation. They have the numbers in front of them they want to meet as far as people using those two dungeons. They said the numbers arent where they want them to be. So they did some adjusting to make it more accessible. I dont think if anyone can solo it there are very many. Meanwhile 1000s might actually be able to finish it now.2
