Vangy wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Let's begin by getting back on topic, Incapacitating Strike!
Cost: 50, Range: 5m, Single Target
Deals x damage
stuns target for 6 seconds
Increases Damage against afflicted target by 20%
Applies Major Defile (30% Healing Debuff)
Passively, this ability increases critical, and restores magicka when a target is killed with it, values listed in Assassination Skill Line
When discussing this and comparing it to other class ultimates, not only should we consider all of these benefits, but all other aspects of a class and its available ultimates that may account for the obvious excess utility provided by this ultimate.

I would like to begin by comparing this to Standard of Might, and Overload, which I believe are the the other two strongest class based ultimates also sharing similar properties (damage values, buffs and debuffs).

Standard of Might
Cost: 250, Range 8m, AoE
Deals x damage over 17 seconds
Applies Major Defile to all targets within its radius
All Targets within radius take 20% increased damage from all sources
Reduces Any Damage received by 20% while within the standard
Has an available synergy that immobilizes all enemies in range
Passively, any burning effect applied to targets affected will be increased by
66%, in addition to receiving a 30% snare, and damage may be affected by Searing Heat/World in Flame (Needs Confirmation) totalling to 9% more overall DoT damage

Overload
Cost: 64, Range: 28-36m (depends on user location) Single Target
Deals x Damage to target (comparable to Death Stroke)
Adds a third bar and access to use of a third ultimate (yes, sorcerers can have three ultimates)
Can be charged up to be casted an excessive amount of times, utilizing up to 1000 ultimate and does not completely deplete user ultimate when toggled
Restores Magicka on successful hits
Passively has a 6% chance to deal an additional x damage when afflicted target is at low health, damage is comparable to surprise attack (Proc cannot crit? Needs confirmation)

As you can see, different ultimates seem more useful in different situations, Death Stroke being an incredibly useful single-target burst ultimate, Standard destroying it in AoE and even certain single target encounters, Overload taking the cake for being an amazing utility bar and providing some of the best ranged single target sustained and burst dps in the game

Each of these has their niche, Death Stroke is definitely more efficient in one on one combat and gank situations because that is what it was made to do, just because you are a "1v1er" or you got "ganked" doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game, which it clearly isn't, in fact, any of these ultimates could be described as "the most OP thing in the game" depending on the situation

This ultimate just has the edge 1v1, and just because you got your ego hurt doesn't justify ridiculous posts seen daily on these forums

@Wrobel please consider everything when reviewing abilities, I do believe that you are heading in the right direction this update (the best balance patch in a year by far!!), don't let these kinds of posts mislead you

Consider all of these factors when posting constructive feedback in this post, and avoid posting ignorant/unhelpful responses

each of them has their niches?
SoM is incredible for PvE and so is overload.
Overload is annoying when used from within a zerg
Incap strike will STILL not be used for PvE in DB, but it is so strong in small-scale PvP that one could almost say it breaks it.

almost-breaking an entire aspect of pvp is not exactly what i'd call a niche use

PS: the big difference is ofc that incap+other ability is far more likely to prduce a player-killing damage brust than the other two

But w/e, I'm already toying with stamblade, it's more fun than I thought. If unchanged I'll just play mine. If we want to form groups larger than 2-4, we'll just use different chars for that. Double campaign times rewards is nice for making gold anyway...

Different toons have different strengths. Incap is good for ganking and small scale. And as you already seem to acknowledge, incap is kinda worthless in bigger groups. Especially since cloak is nerfed into the ground. Any bombard spamming monkey or rml slotted mag toon can perma reveal you. Kinda makes jumping into zergs as a stamblade a suicide mission.

lathbury wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I guess it's just a coincidence that every single 'real' Nightblade, namely one that has played a Nightblade since the release of ESO, seems to agree that Incapacitating Strike in its current form on the PTS is overpowered.

This includes people who have been playing a Stamina Nightblade since March 2014.

well your wrong i dont and have played nighblades since early access
as an aside its really interesting that aside from this thread in all others you have claimed to be playing a sorc or magblade

lathbury wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I guess it's just a coincidence that every single 'real' Nightblade, namely one that has played a Nightblade since the release of ESO, seems to agree that Incapacitating Strike in its current form on the PTS is overpowered.

This includes people who have been playing a Stamina Nightblade since March 2014.

well your wrong i dont and have played nighblades since early access
as an aside its really interesting that aside from this thread in all others you have claimed to be playing a sorc or magblade

There are ppl stating sorc shields on live are too weak aswell.

cant wait to hit one with a cc just before his shields expire so many are gonna have to l2p now there is a viable counter play that doesnt involve a dodgy set that nerfs your build

lathbury wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I guess it's just a coincidence that every single 'real' Nightblade, namely one that has played a Nightblade since the release of ESO, seems to agree that Incapacitating Strike in its current form on the PTS is overpowered.

This includes people who have been playing a Stamina Nightblade since March 2014.

well your wrong i dont and have played nighblades since early access
as an aside its really interesting that aside from this thread in all others you have claimed to be playing a sorc or magblade

There are ppl stating sorc shields on live are too weak aswell.

cant wait to hit one with a cc just before his shields expire so many are gonna have to l2p now there is a viable counter play that doesnt involve a dodgy set that nerfs your build

Just reduces build variety and nerfs any non cookie-cutter build more than those already tripplestacking. You´ll still need shieldbreaker but atleast that´s now a vailed and needed option against stamina and magica alike.

not really with the gcd by the time a triple stacker has cast the klast one the first will now be half expired. if they continue to try and keep all three up they arent doing any damage so its gonna be a double or single shield and thats where a timley cc with burst helps.

Docmandu wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Let's begin by getting back on topic, Incapacitating Strike!
Cost: 50, Range: 5m, Single Target
Deals x damage
stuns target for 6 seconds
Increases Damage against afflicted target by 20%
Applies Major Defile (30% Healing Debuff)
Passively, this ability increases critical, and restores magicka when a target is killed with it, values listed in Assassination Skill Line
When discussing this and comparing it to other class ultimates, not only should we consider all of these benefits, but all other aspects of a class and its available ultimates that may account for the obvious excess utility provided by this ultimate.

I would like to begin by comparing this to Standard of Might, and Overload, which I believe are the the other two strongest class based ultimates also sharing similar properties (damage values, buffs and debuffs).

Standard of Might
Cost: 250, Range 8m, AoE
Deals x damage over 17 seconds
Applies Major Defile to all targets within its radius
All Targets within radius take 20% increased damage from all sources
Reduces Any Damage received by 20% while within the standard
Has an available synergy that immobilizes all enemies in range
Passively, any burning effect applied to targets affected will be increased by
66%, in addition to receiving a 30% snare, and damage may be affected by Searing Heat/World in Flame (Needs Confirmation) totalling to 9% more overall DoT damage

Overload
Cost: 64, Range: 28-36m (depends on user location) Single Target
Deals x Damage to target (comparable to Death Stroke)
Adds a third bar and access to use of a third ultimate (yes, sorcerers can have three ultimates)
Can be charged up to be casted an excessive amount of times, utilizing up to 1000 ultimate and does not completely deplete user ultimate when toggled
Restores Magicka on successful hits
Passively has a 6% chance to deal an additional x damage when afflicted target is at low health, damage is comparable to surprise attack (Proc cannot crit? Needs confirmation)

As you can see, different ultimates seem more useful in different situations, Death Stroke being an incredibly useful single-target burst ultimate, Standard destroying it in AoE and even certain single target encounters, Overload taking the cake for being an amazing utility bar and providing some of the best ranged single target sustained and burst dps in the game

Each of these has their niche, Death Stroke is definitely more efficient in one on one combat and gank situations because that is what it was made to do, just because you are a "1v1er" or you got "ganked" doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game, which it clearly isn't, in fact, any of these ultimates could be described as "the most OP thing in the game" depending on the situation

This ultimate just has the edge 1v1, and just because you got your ego hurt doesn't justify ridiculous posts seen daily on these forums

@Wrobel please consider everything when reviewing abilities, I do believe that you are heading in the right direction this update (the best balance patch in a year by far!!), don't let these kinds of posts mislead you

Consider all of these factors when posting constructive feedback in this post, and avoid posting ignorant/unhelpful responses

Overload doesn't give you 3 Ults. Doesn't scale with stam either. None of them do. Consider that when comparing and weighing.

I will not disagree that stamina morphs for sorcerers are extremely underwhelming, or non-existant, but to use three ultimates, you simply XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I have been able to do this since 1.6.
@FENGRUSH , I might be able to upload a video of how to do it later for reference in case it interests you

Translation: cheat / exploit and posting a How To on the forum...

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_DaryaK

Docmandu wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

Let's begin by getting back on topic, Incapacitating Strike!
Cost: 50, Range: 5m, Single Target
Deals x damage
stuns target for 6 seconds
Increases Damage against afflicted target by 20%
Applies Major Defile (30% Healing Debuff)
Passively, this ability increases critical, and restores magicka when a target is killed with it, values listed in Assassination Skill Line
When discussing this and comparing it to other class ultimates, not only should we consider all of these benefits, but all other aspects of a class and its available ultimates that may account for the obvious excess utility provided by this ultimate.

I would like to begin by comparing this to Standard of Might, and Overload, which I believe are the the other two strongest class based ultimates also sharing similar properties (damage values, buffs and debuffs).

Standard of Might
Cost: 250, Range 8m, AoE
Deals x damage over 17 seconds
Applies Major Defile to all targets within its radius
All Targets within radius take 20% increased damage from all sources
Reduces Any Damage received by 20% while within the standard
Has an available synergy that immobilizes all enemies in range
Passively, any burning effect applied to targets affected will be increased by
66%, in addition to receiving a 30% snare, and damage may be affected by Searing Heat/World in Flame (Needs Confirmation) totalling to 9% more overall DoT damage

Overload
Cost: 64, Range: 28-36m (depends on user location) Single Target
Deals x Damage to target (comparable to Death Stroke)
Adds a third bar and access to use of a third ultimate (yes, sorcerers can have three ultimates)
Can be charged up to be casted an excessive amount of times, utilizing up to 1000 ultimate and does not completely deplete user ultimate when toggled
Restores Magicka on successful hits
Passively has a 6% chance to deal an additional x damage when afflicted target is at low health, damage is comparable to surprise attack (Proc cannot crit? Needs confirmation)

As you can see, different ultimates seem more useful in different situations, Death Stroke being an incredibly useful single-target burst ultimate, Standard destroying it in AoE and even certain single target encounters, Overload taking the cake for being an amazing utility bar and providing some of the best ranged single target sustained and burst dps in the game

Each of these has their niche, Death Stroke is definitely more efficient in one on one combat and gank situations because that is what it was made to do, just because you are a "1v1er" or you got "ganked" doesn't mean it is the most OP thing in the game, which it clearly isn't, in fact, any of these ultimates could be described as "the most OP thing in the game" depending on the situation

This ultimate just has the edge 1v1, and just because you got your ego hurt doesn't justify ridiculous posts seen daily on these forums

@Wrobel please consider everything when reviewing abilities, I do believe that you are heading in the right direction this update (the best balance patch in a year by far!!), don't let these kinds of posts mislead you

Consider all of these factors when posting constructive feedback in this post, and avoid posting ignorant/unhelpful responses

Overload doesn't give you 3 Ults. Doesn't scale with stam either. None of them do. Consider that when comparing and weighing.

I will not disagree that stamina morphs for sorcerers are extremely underwhelming, or non-existant, but to use three ultimates, you simply XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I have been able to do this since 1.6.
@FENGRUSH , I might be able to upload a video of how to do it later for reference in case it interests you

Translation: cheat / exploit and posting a How To on the forum...

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_DaryaK

It´s not a cheat/exploit. It´s been reported since 1.6. It´s simply a maybe or maybe not wanted functionality of the third bar provided for sorcerers.

It never even occured to me this is possibly unwanted before someone pointed out it´s only working in a specific scenario which i always happened to use...

Don't play dumb please... nobody in their right mind would confuse this for an intended feature. It's like the Magelight exploit together with Overload (which was fixed).. you have to do a very specific sequence of actions to get in that state. Same with this one here.

The_Outsider wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

ZOS has historically decided against nerfing strong skills/mechanics (e.g. Cloak) because of how easy they are to counter. Incap Strike is quite easy to counter imo, passively even. Consider the number of players in Cyrodiil who do a combination of the following almost constantly: roll dodge, block, cloak, perma-major evasion. Any one of those mechanics will either completely or mostly nullify Incap Strike.
As a single target Ultimate, it must have higher damage than AOE Ultimates. If it's damage is reduced too much, it falls below my WB tooltip, and dangerously close to my surprise attack tooltip. At that point, opportunity cost makes it a useless skill.

I see a couple arguments saying that comparing Incap with Overload is an invalid comparison because they aren't similar in function. Truth is, anyone could restate their supposed differences as similarities. It's a difference of perspective.

A single target ultimate that stuns and heal debuffs which can be used rougly 3 times on a potion cooldown.

Ambush > Fear > Cloak > Incap > Execute and on to the next target to repeat the exact same combo because Incap will be up again.

Great idea if you ask me!

Why quote comment and then not address its contents?

Single target Ult is a handicap not a feature.
Stun. Irrelevant based on the rotation you just proposed because they will still have CC immunity (or still be feared).
Like I mentioned above^^--Lower the damage and you've got a clunky SA that adds Defile and costs 50 Ult. I'll just cast SA again and charge my Meteor.

EsoRecon wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

ZOS has historically decided against nerfing strong skills/mechanics (e.g. Cloak) because of how easy they are to counter. Incap Strike is quite easy to counter imo, passively even. Consider the number of players in Cyrodiil who do a combination of the following almost constantly: roll dodge, block, cloak, perma-major evasion. Any one of those mechanics will either completely or mostly nullify Incap Strike.
As a single target Ultimate, it must have higher damage than AOE Ultimates. If it's damage is reduced too much, it falls below my WB tooltip, and dangerously close to my surprise attack tooltip. At that point, opportunity cost makes it a useless skill.

I see a couple arguments saying that comparing Incap with Overload is an invalid comparison because they aren't similar in function. Truth is, anyone could restate their supposed differences as similarities. It's a difference of perspective.

A single target ultimate that stuns and heal debuffs which can be used rougly 3 times on a potion cooldown.

Ambush > Fear > Cloak > Incap > Execute and on to the next target to repeat the exact same combo because Incap will be up again.

Great idea if you ask me!

Why quote comment and then not address its contents?

Single target Ult is a handicap not a feature.
Stun. Irrelevant based on the rotation you just proposed because they will still have CC immunity (or still be feared).
Like I mentioned above^^--Lower the damage and you've got a clunky SA that adds Defile and costs 50 Ult. I'll just cast SA again and charge my Meteor.

Single target is no handicap at all, you will hit one target with SA and Ambush so it fits perfectly.

The stun makes no difference in the rotation but you can use this to your advantage from stealth for example.

Major Defile is a strong tool, especially vs stam builds that already have limited healing.

I do agree that it should not become a cluncky SA but the cost of 50 ult for such a strong ultimate is way too low.

Stamina builds DO NOT have limited healing. Unless they have 0 cp.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

ZOS has historically decided against nerfing strong skills/mechanics (e.g. Cloak) because of how easy they are to counter. Incap Strike is quite easy to counter imo, passively even. Consider the number of players in Cyrodiil who do a combination of the following almost constantly: roll dodge, block, cloak, perma-major evasion. Any one of those mechanics will either completely or mostly nullify Incap Strike.
As a single target Ultimate, it must have higher damage than AOE Ultimates. If it's damage is reduced too much, it falls below my WB tooltip, and dangerously close to my surprise attack tooltip. At that point, opportunity cost makes it a useless skill.

I see a couple arguments saying that comparing Incap with Overload is an invalid comparison because they aren't similar in function. Truth is, anyone could restate their supposed differences as similarities. It's a difference of perspective.

A single target ultimate that stuns and heal debuffs which can be used rougly 3 times on a potion cooldown.

Ambush > Fear > Cloak > Incap > Execute and on to the next target to repeat the exact same combo because Incap will be up again.

Great idea if you ask me!

Why quote comment and then not address its contents?

Single target Ult is a handicap not a feature.
Stun. Irrelevant based on the rotation you just proposed because they will still have CC immunity (or still be feared).
Like I mentioned above^^--Lower the damage and you've got a clunky SA that adds Defile and costs 50 Ult. I'll just cast SA again and charge my Meteor.

Single target is no handicap at all, you will hit one target with SA and Ambush so it fits perfectly.

The stun makes no difference in the rotation but you can use this to your advantage from stealth for example.

Major Defile is a strong tool, especially vs stam builds that already have limited healing.

I do agree that it should not become a cluncky SA but the cost of 50 ult for such a strong ultimate is way too low.

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

People here are just bad players that can't beat stamblades so they're trying to get us nerfed.

Ltp git guuud is all I can say.

Lyar09 wrote: »

Seriously this ability is extremely overpowered. It is making stamina nightblade over the top again. Does way too much damage.Oh and worst of all it is the lowest costing ulti in the game. I'm fine with the knock down change but come on with this damage change. What were you thinking zos?

Y'all have fun with this argument. Instead of it being about a single ability it has turned into a class balance war. I'm sure nothing will get changed and people will complain about it (to include those defending it). Enjoy your arguing folks I appreciate some of the feedback.

Jordaen wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

Seriously this ability is extremely overpowered. It is making stamina nightblade over the top again. Does way too much damage.Oh and worst of all it is the lowest costing ulti in the game. I'm fine with the knock down change but come on with this damage change. What were you thinking zos?

Y'all have fun with this argument. Instead of it being about a single ability it has turned into a class balance war. I'm sure nothing will get changed and people will complain about it (to include those defending it). Enjoy your arguing folks I appreciate some of the feedback.

What class are you op?

He mains a Stam temp