Crafting for Others - High Risk, Low Reward

JKorr · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

I wasn't referring to making research items for people or low level gear upgraded to green or something, that I will happily do, and do regularly for free - it's people wanting a high level/highly upgraded set, with time spent going to usually 2 set crafting stations, which can take a large wedge of time, especially if they are expecting me to provide advice about *what* they want me to craft.

I'll do research pieces or beginner sets (white or green) any time, if anyone wants nirnhoned for research they have to supply the nirncrux or pay for it though.

But I don't think research gear/beginner gear is the point of this thread, I think most of us will happily provide that at no/minimal cost, unless they want it all dwemer or glass or something with an expensive trait mat. But most of us don't want to spend an hour discussing with people that don't know what they want for high level gear and then being told that they don't have the mats for it, so that's another wadge of time being spent on going around guild stores and working out the cost (and then they say "oh I can't afford that") - well done, you just wasted an hour of my time.

By comparison, giving out a ww bite is easy (I have never charged for a bite), it takes like 3 minutes and has no associated cost to the person giving it.

Personal preference; I've spent time make the split sets of stuff at two totally different stations. About the best I can offer as far as advice on which set is simply to tell them the one I'm using. I don't know enough about how builds work to do anything else and tell them exactly that. If someone wants the gear upgraded past green, then they can find the tempers and send them to me. That way they know exactly how much it will cost. If I don't get the tempers or a message, I know they didn't want to pay for the stuff. [shrug] It works out. Some people do insist on paying. It will take a while, but I will eventually get the akaviri and faction motifs.

KingYogi415 · May 2016

20k for a set another 20k if you want it all purple sounds standard!

Epona222 · May 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

20k for a set another 20k if you want it all purple sounds standard!

Maybe if I felt brave enough to charge that in the first place I wouldn't get so frustrated with hanging around a crafting station for 2 hours while the customer was umming and ahhing!

NBrookus · May 2016

saps101 wrote: »

Friends pay you for this??

I just get bullied into crafting sets for 4 vr 16s, have to put up with constant bitching about styles, not upgrading past purple, not predicting they get an 'amazing looking chest' and having to change the set bonuses to compensate.

Say NO if you don't feel like crafting something. You can say it nicely, or if they are being jerks you can say it more forcefully.

These people are not your friends. If they get mad, what's the worst that happens? They don't ask you again? Boo hoo.

KingMagaw · May 2016

Usually the people asking me for crafting are the lower level people of the game, who cant do it themselves (eg - 9 trait TBS). At max I charge 1k/piece to blue it and i only charge this small amount to cover the materials they dont send me.

As far as i can remember i have not had a player give me all that was needed, always missing something lol Items applied to crafting are simple to get in game, gold is easily replaced so i don't sweat making gear for new players.

Making gear to sell on trader in ESO is worthless - styles hard to see, traits change depending PvE/PvP so buyers find it easier to ask guild or zone chat for specifics, my experience anyway.

You want high reward, farm the latest released content is my advice but then your just trading real £ for in game gold, which is basically worthless.

Pandorii · May 2016

Any tips for someone who has a really hard time saying "no"? I feel bad saying no to randoms, and even worse to friends, especially when they are like" yo pandorii, so when are you going to craft me that vet 1 gear?"

The most polite thing I've thought of saying is "I'm kinda burned out from crafting right now." I've also said something like "crafting isn't really my money making profession. Try an online community. There are people out there who really want to craft for money." The second one is really true. I don't need in game gold. There are crafters out there who do. I think sometimes people ask me only because a. I'm a girl and approachable and b. I might be the only crafter they know. I don't think they realize that if you multiply that by the 400 friends I have on psn, it means I get at least one request an hour. I'd never have time to play if I didn't draw a line.

I have trouble figuring out what that line should be.

I tried crafting only on Sundays and devoting that day strictly to crafting. The result? People becoming aware that I craft and asking me on every other day saying "I'll pay" or "just this once" etc.

How do I say no? Help. =(

Oh_Skrivva · May 2016

Since I know all traits and motifs I get asked all the time to craft stuff for people. I only will do it ASAP if they are friends if not I'll tell them Ill make it when I have free time. I hate it when I get whispered to craft something and clearly they see that I'm in a dungeon. As far as payment if they supply mats they can tip me whatever they want. If it's a stranger I'm def asking for tips.

KingMagaw · May 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

How do I say no? Help. =(

The way i do it is like tonight. I have multiple people asking me as well daily, so i say mail me what you need/items and when i can i will knock it out. So tonight i have 4 whole sets to make, but all the mails i have so i mule to get any random mats that were forgotten, always forgotten! and craft them all in one session.

Though i think from now on im going to say, i craft 1 suit daily and i got some orders. Mail me and when those done i make yours. This way i might be able to stock up 1 weeks orders to knock out in 1 session, much more efficient.

But again, i only cater for newer players to the game as i dont really charge for items. If someone asked me for vet16 gear, i am more inclined to say ask in guild because at VR16 stage you should have access to a wack of crafters ). If its level 40 gear then i am more inclined to do it as it may increase someones enjoyment/understanding of the game.

Epona222 · May 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Any tips for someone who has a really hard time saying "no"? I feel bad saying no to randoms, and even worse to friends, especially when they are like" yo pandorii, so when are you going to craft me that vet 1 gear?"

The most polite thing I've thought of saying is "I'm kinda burned out from crafting right now." I've also said something like "crafting isn't really my money making profession. Try an online community. There are people out there who really want to craft for money." The second one is really true. I don't need in game gold. There are crafters out there who do. I think sometimes people ask me only because a. I'm a girl and approachable and b. I might be the only crafter they know. I don't think they realize that if you multiply that by the 400 friends I have on psn, it means I get at least one request an hour. I'd never have time to play if I didn't draw a line.

I have trouble figuring out what that line should be.

I tried crafting only on Sundays and devoting that day strictly to crafting. The result? People becoming aware that I craft and asking me on every other day saying "I'll pay" or "just this once" etc.

How do I say no? Help. =(

"sorry, I retired from being a full-time crafter because it's really boring to spend all my time crafting for other people."

Pandorii · May 2016

Omg.

Random: Can you craft soul shriven?

Me (to myself): What kind of question is that? I can have no traits and soul shriven style. Is that what you are asking? What set do you want?

Random: Can you craft armor?

Me: sigh... Yes. What set do you need?

Random: Armor Master (a 9 trait set)

Me (to myself): I have 8 on everything and working on 9 traits. *** you.

Epona222 · May 2016

Just politely tell those people "I'm not taking orders for crafting at the moment". You can't let people dominate your time in game in activities you don't find fun. Just be firm. Also if you have on any of your notes in guilds that you are a crafter, get that note changed. You don't come on to play just to fill crafting orders, put your foot down.

Bossdonut · May 2016

I have nearly everything unlocked and I don't craft *** for anyone. You want a 9 trait set? Make it yourself

Lylith · May 2016

i only craft for friends, now.

Mettaricana · May 2016

I craft for me alone now last time I say for tips craft twiceborn star gives me 1k its like take your cheap arse and throw yourself from the throat of the world head first.

Or the excuse its my mats should be free um then research your own traits.

clocksstoppe · May 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

to @clocksstoppe *NOTHING* means the following:

1) Hours of finding items to reseach
2) For the 9th trait, it takes 30 days to research times every part of the armor and weapon in game
3) Grinding / Farming / buy style books
4) Finding Crafting Bonus Stations
5) Giving up my play time to do work for the buyer

The buyer may not see how much is done in the background; but it is done none the less.

That is whole lot of *NOTHING*

1) and 2)Researching is done in parallel with playing, you're making it seem much more than it really is.
3)For exotic motifs your price should reflect that.
4)Get real use an online map.
5)It's your choice to do so. If you don't charge for your services then lol.

Then go learn to craft on your own. If its so easy by all means.

I already did. There is nothing hard about crafting, it just takes a bit to research traits.

CaptainBeerDude · May 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

to @clocksstoppe *NOTHING* means the following:

1) Hours of finding items to reseach
2) For the 9th trait, it takes 30 days to research times every part of the armor and weapon in game
3) Grinding / Farming / buy style books
4) Finding Crafting Bonus Stations
5) Giving up my play time to do work for the buyer

The buyer may not see how much is done in the background; but it is done none the less.

That is whole lot of *NOTHING*

1) and 2)Researching is done in parallel with playing, you're making it seem much more than it really is.
3)For exotic motifs your price should reflect that.
4)Get real use an online map.
5)It's your choice to do so. If you don't charge for your services then lol.

Then go learn to craft on your own. If its so easy by all means.

I already did. There is nothing hard about crafting, it just takes a bit to research traits.

It's all cool guys. @clocksstoppe says that it only takes a bit to research all traits. Hurry up and craft everything for free now. For anyone.

If it is so easy to get 9 traits, why doesn't everybody have them, Mate?

Tanaka_Khan · May 2016

I only craft at certain times of the day. If I'm playing on another character I won't drop what I'm doing for anyone.

And also the major peev of mine is people asking for a gold set to be made, supply the gold material, but not the green, blue or purple mats to get it to the gold stage, they expect me to supply the lower level materials.

aLi3nZ · May 2016

Crafters should be paid more.
I think 15k for full 7 peices from 2 different crafting stations and 10k for 5. That is will all mats provided except armour trait an weapon trait except bin.

I remember paying a crafter 20k for making 5 items. It was tip based and I was thankful for his service. Btw I didn't supply the trait material and asked for recommendations on style. Got malakath and glass weapon which I am happy with. I found out later I could make this set without his help, lol. It was clever alchemist. Still happy though because I don't have though those motifs

NovaShadow · May 2016

Personally I usually only craft for guildies/friends.

The rare occasions they don't have the mats they'll send gold.

Haven't had a bad experience to date to be honest.

Sunburnt_Penguin · May 2016

Due to non-crafters not knowing what materials and quantities were needed, I spent a lot of time getting this information together and it would further annoy me if they sent too many mats as i'd always feel inclined to send them back.

I ended up creating a spreadsheet where I put an X in the relevant cross-section of piece-trait and then select style per piece and set. It then allows me to select the player level and it tells me exactly what materials are required.

PM me if you want me to send it over. I find it easier than referring back to various sources to check however it still doesn't get around human-error in either inputs or at actual creation.

MattT1988 · May 2016

I craft for friends and guildies only. Much less complicated.

lathbury · May 2016

lassitershawn wrote: »

Agree that if somebody wants you to decide what sets you should make for their build, that is ridiculous.

When I ask for something to be crafted, I provide all mats and pay for what I don't have if I'm missing something, then typically do a tip of ~5k depending on how much I had crafted (or pay the price the crafter decides on if they have one). Is this considered acceptable by crafters or should I be tipping more?

Also, been thinking about learning crafting since I'm getting bored with the game atm (whenever this happens I always move to a new aspect of the game). When I get to the point where I can make gear, should I charge or let people tip? If most people tip ~5k like me and provide mats I'd be fine with that but if people are tipping like 1k that sounds really depressing.

i use the tiny dog add on and charge 5% for guildies and 10% for strangers friends who i know i owe favours etc just the cost of the mats

ContraTempo · May 2016

I don't accept mats. I use my own supplies. It's figured into the price. I use a spiffy addon called Craft Cost Advisor to work out all the costs for me so I don't have to dig for prices.

If I'm selling stuff it's COD, or (preferred) I can list it in one of my Guilds' Stores and the buyer can pick it up there. I don't like the trade system, I don't trust it, and I won't use it for anything significant. Yes, there is a premium or "tax" on COD and GS. So what? Don't wanna pay it, find another crafter. After all, I don't need to take orders as this not how I put food on the table in RL.

If some of that premium goes to my guilds, yea me.

Sometimes I just make stuff for someone as a gift. I use to do it as part of leveling my skills but now with them all 50 I just do it for fun or to spread some goodwill. I just ask that they do something nice for someone else.

GeorgeBlack · May 2016

I get the money upfront before each piece. Give them exactly what they want if I can craft it.

However I never though how little crafting would have to do with the economy and I regret spending time all the items i can craft but have no personal use for them.

Make food? More profitable to gather.
Make potions? More profitable to gather.
Craft items? More profitable to gather.
Make glyphs? More profitable to gather or farm motifs.
Geez there should be restrictions to how much you can put into one account.

Pandorii · May 2016

Tanaka_Khan wrote: »

I only craft at certain times of the day. If I'm playing on another character I won't drop what I'm doing for anyone.

And also the major peev of mine is people asking for a gold set to be made, supply the gold material, but not the green, blue or purple mats to get it to the gold stage, they expect me to supply the lower level materials.

That's awful. You're basically paying 4k per piece (in purple improvement mats alone) to "help" make someone armor. Sheesh.

nudel · May 2016

Epona222 wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

I disagree with deconstruction returning 100% of items used to craft.

Something this game really tries if compared to Skyrim, for example, is immersion. Fortunately it's not massive like all of the many mods Skyrim has just for this matter.

The point I'm touching with this is the depreciation concept.

For example, a leather armor uses the tanned hide mostly, but some of the leather is transformed in stripes (although we don't see them connecting the front with the back most of the times). Not only you won't get a whole piece of leather from stripes but you'll hardly get a perfect new stripe as you undo the armor (they usually spoil in the proccess).

Also, theoretically speaking, when you create armor of higher levels from materials of same tier, you're compressing several, leathers in the example, into one single thicker plaque (usually with some resin in between). Deconstructing such plaque will indeed destroy some of the layers used, if not all of it. It's inevitable!

I would go far with tempers. IMHO I don't see how they could be extracted from a piece of gear in a realistic way. Oils get dry, linen rip themselves, solvents get saturated with the material particles they were applied and waxes solidify - and they're supposed to be used hot, melted). In this matter, extracting upgrading materials should not even be possible.

They should be sold by some NPC supposedly experienced in crafting them from raw materials. It would explain why Dreugh Waxes are expensive >.<

More! This would even open the possibility for new content for the already pseudo-confirmed housing DLC: small refining stations, so we could play medieval Walter White XD

Trait stones are fine as they're now. You may, or may not receive. The stone may, or may not crack during the extraction.

Tbh, (and although I agree with a lot of what you have said), that is not really the point of the discussion in this thread. We're talking about acceptable amounts to charge/tip, and how to approach crafters when wanting high level gear made - not returns on deconstructing stuff.

Did you read the OP?

Pandorii wrote: »

First, I propose that deconstructing items actually reimburse you 100 percent what you used. If you accidentally craft the wrong thing, you can just redo your work without penalty. Why do we only get 1 temper, rosin, or wax from deconstructing gold items when it took 8 to make it that way? (excluding dropped gold items).

His points do have a place in this discussion, seeing as that's how the discussion started.

Pandorii · May 2016

@nudel

You're right. For the most part. The main topic of this thread was to talk about how crafting is high risk and low reward. I think I made an assumption that the only way to solve that was to deal with the risk side. Most of my recommendations were for that. Others have successfully pointed out that there are things that can be done on the reward part (tipping higher).

There's room in this thread for both sides. =D

nudel · May 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Any tips for someone who has a really hard time saying "no"? I feel bad saying no to randoms, and even worse to friends, especially when they are like" yo pandorii, so when are you going to craft me that vet 1 gear?"

The most polite thing I've thought of saying is "I'm kinda burned out from crafting right now." I've also said something like "crafting isn't really my money making profession. Try an online community. There are people out there who really want to craft for money." The second one is really true. I don't need in game gold. There are crafters out there who do. I think sometimes people ask me only because a. I'm a girl and approachable and b. I might be the only crafter they know. I don't think they realize that if you multiply that by the 400 friends I have on psn, it means I get at least one request an hour. I'd never have time to play if I didn't draw a line.

I have trouble figuring out what that line should be.

I tried crafting only on Sundays and devoting that day strictly to crafting. The result? People becoming aware that I craft and asking me on every other day saying "I'll pay" or "just this once" etc.

How do I say no? Help. =(

You sound perilously close to getting burnt out.
Whisper or send a mail to your regular/ former clients telling them:

" Pandorii's Crafting Corner has closed its doors for the time being. Pandorii will be:

vacationing on a beach in Hew's Bane
giving an old Orc a good death in Wrothgar
picking flowers in the Hollow City
fishing in Cyrodiil

She will be accepting no further crafting requests for the time being. Sorry for the inconvenience. "

Change any notes in guild rosters that have you listed as a crafter for hire or ask guildmasters/ officers to edit them if you lack the necessary permissions. Lastly, I'd put yourself on "Do Not Disturb" or even "Offline" for a short time (maybe a day or two) so you don't continue to get "I got your message but please pretty please make an exception for me" whispers. Pull the umbilical cord. Leave the cell phone off. Enjoy playing the game for awhile without the distraction.

When/ if you do come back from your crafting vacation, choose your clients and don't feel compelled to respond to every request. I see people asking in chat for crafters all the time. Sometimes I respond. Sometimes I don't. The moons keep rising over Tamriel.

sekou_trayvond · May 2016

I generally only craft for guildies and then I'm upfront with my prices. Even if they include all mats I still charge per piece. My rationale being- you're utilizing my knowledge of X amount of traits, which the requestor clearly doesn't possess. That's worth something.

I make nothing for non guildies without mats up front.

Pandorii · May 2016

nudel wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Any tips for someone who has a really hard time saying "no"? I feel bad saying no to randoms, and even worse to friends, especially when they are like" yo pandorii, so when are you going to craft me that vet 1 gear?"

The most polite thing I've thought of saying is "I'm kinda burned out from crafting right now." I've also said something like "crafting isn't really my money making profession. Try an online community. There are people out there who really want to craft for money." The second one is really true. I don't need in game gold. There are crafters out there who do. I think sometimes people ask me only because a. I'm a girl and approachable and b. I might be the only crafter they know. I don't think they realize that if you multiply that by the 400 friends I have on psn, it means I get at least one request an hour. I'd never have time to play if I didn't draw a line.

I have trouble figuring out what that line should be.

I tried crafting only on Sundays and devoting that day strictly to crafting. The result? People becoming aware that I craft and asking me on every other day saying "I'll pay" or "just this once" etc.

How do I say no? Help. =(

You sound perilously close to getting burnt out.
Whisper or send a mail to your regular/ former clients telling them:

" Pandorii's Crafting Corner has closed its doors for the time being. Pandorii will be:
vacationing on a beach in Hew's Bane

giving an old Orc a good death in Wrothgar

picking flowers in the Hollow City

fishing in Cyrodiil

She will be accepting no further crafting requests for the time being. Sorry for the inconvenience. "

Change any notes in guild rosters that have you listed as a crafter for hire or ask guildmasters/ officers to edit them if you lack the necessary permissions. Lastly, I'd put yourself on "Do Not Disturb" or even "Offline" for a short time (maybe a day or two) so you don't continue to get "I got your message but please pretty please make an exception for me" whispers. Pull the umbilical cord. Leave the cell phone off. Enjoy playing the game for awhile without the distraction.

When/ if you do come back from your crafting vacation, choose your clients and don't feel compelled to respond to every request. I see people asking in chat for crafters all the time. Sometimes I respond. Sometimes I don't. The moons keep rising over Tamriel.

Super cute =^o^= I am close to burnout. Glad I'm not the only one.