Crafting for Others - High Risk, Low Reward

Pandorii

Yall! Thanks everyone who has contributed to this discussion. Doesn't it seem like there's room for improvement. A way to incentivize crafting for non-friends?

Any ideas?

k9mouse

I like the fact that it takes a lot of time and coin to be a good crafter. I do not want ZOS to nerf crafting and make it easy. To many people want everything handed (or pawed) down to them.

Epona222

Pandorii wrote: »

Yall! Thanks everyone who has contributed to this discussion. Doesn't it seem like there's room for improvement. A way to incentivize crafting for non-friends?

Any ideas?

People deciding what they want beforehand so that they can give the crafter a clear concise order, either providing all mats or covering the full cost of mats, and a tip for the time spent getting to set crafting stations (on the basis that a crafter who is spending 30-40 minutes crafting for someone else could be doing something with that time that would earn them gold) would be good enough really.

N0TPLAYER2

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I don't understand. You ask to do literally nothing but hit the "craft" button and be rewarded for it?

This is not normal. If I buy a car the dealer doesn't ask me to individually buy all the car parts because he wouldn't have a business.

What you expect from your customers is unreasonable. They don't care how you make it, because they pay you for the final items. They don't care where the crafting set location is because it's not their problem to get there. They don't care how many materials it takes to make it because it's not their problem. Based on what you said, I wouldn't use your crafting services because they are terrible to say the least.

If you want to stop being a bad crafter, then make the right price. The harder you make it for the customer the worse it gets for you as well.

"Give me crafting materials" is such a dumb business practice I see among many crafters, it makes me ashamed of being a crafter. You should have all available materials and then just tell the customer the price. Be professional if you want to be good.

I'm on Xbox and have done this too much. You give it a shot and waste hours of time going round and round with noobs. I do have all the crafting mats. It's more about the time wasted dealing with them. I can make 80k in 2-3 hours just in guild sales while playing. So honestly the 20k means nothing. It's more about helping someone out on my terms than going round and round. You talk from inexperience.

We're not asking you to build the car for the retail price. We're telling you go get the car parts yourself and we will build it because if you do it yourself it will cost 3x more and 10x longer. THATS what were charging for. That and the motif prices, the time invested to research, the time invested to find these items, the time to actually go make it for you. At least for me.

Friends are different, This is for customers who expect an 8-9 trait set handed over for nothing. It's not that simple.

N0TPLAYER2

How's this look for a template? I realize it's detailed but I'm trying to limit repeating all of this over and over as I do now. I plan to offer sales of any style or trait for 20k, with all materials provided to me. Any input or changes I'm one to suggestions. Again I'm on Xbox so can't send a template like on pc.

---

What Weight?
(Heavy Medium or Light)


What Style? All styles available
(Trinimac, Glass etc)


What Set?
9 Trait Heavy 8 Medium/Light All Wood
(Hundings Rage, Julianos etc)


What Trait?
(Divines, Reinforced etc)


What Weapons? 2 Come With Set


What Upgrades?
(Turned Blue, Purple etc)


Any Glyphs?
(All Available)


Prices
20k for any rare sets (5 and above)
20k for any rare motifs (non blue)
10k for any regular style motif (4 or less)


For the base price I make the items, provide trait gems, and turn the items blue for my fee.


Upgrades
2 Tannin for Green
3 Tannin for Blue
4 Tannin for Purple
8 Tannin for Yellow


Any materials must be provided by you. That includes all style material, ingots, clothing materials, tannins, etc.


I will make you a 5 trait and 3/4 trait set (mixing the two styles for max results)


I am willing to help assist but do want all materials purchased by you. Check guild stores for items needed.


Any glyphs cost more. For a full set of glyphs is 10k. Again you provide materials (potency, essence and aspect stones) I will make 9-10 glyphs for 10k.


An example for what's needed. If you want 7 piece medium armor, a shield and a sword, you would provide 85-100 pieces of clothing materials, 10-15 ingots, and 10-15 wood.

To make them purple each item costs 2 green, 3 blue and 4 purple tannins.

Clothing is 14 helming, 21 embroidery, and 28 elegant lining.

Then the sword is 2 honing stone, 3 Dwarven oil, and 4 grain solvent.

And for shield it would be 2 pitch, 3 Turpin, and 4 mastic.

---

Thoughts?

JKorr

Pandorii wrote: »

Hello Everyone!

This thread is for people who find themselves frequently making armor for others. How do you deal with it? I regret ever letting it be known to friends, guildies, and randoms that I had level 50 crafts and was researching traits. I get too too many PMs asking me to make them stuff! I'm especially bothered by the randoms who just say "can you make me this?" without even bothering to say "hi. how is your day going?" Mind you, this isn't a venting post. I wanted to talk about the crafting system through the lens of the crafter: how it's high risk and low reward.
[snip]
What are yall's ideas? I don't want to say "no" to friends anymore when they ask me to make them stuff just because it's complex and ends up being a resource and gold net loss for me. I want to play with all the styles I have (every single one that is out) and make a lot of pretty things. Help!

I enjoy crafting. While I will make gear for random new people in the starting zones, I generally craft for guildmates. Research trait items I make for free. I make gear, improved to green, for free. I've made glyphs, food, drink, and alchemy potions for free, for guildies. If someone wants nirn items they have to provide the nirnstones; the item I make for free. If they want v16 gear, they do have to give me the mats; I don't have *that* much in my bank.

For that matter, I give out free ww bites, too.

I do ask that they pay it forward; help out someone else sometime. I enjoy crafting. I would like other players to enjoy the game. I know this attitude means I don't have tons of gold, and I feel it is an accomplishment when I get enough gold together to buy another motif that lets me craft more things. I am still having fun in the game and that was and is the whole point for me.

I'd be playing Monopoly or something if my whole purpose was to make money.

Kayira

1. I only craft when they know exactly what they want, style ,set, trait what pieces
2. I never use my own mats
3. I only do it in person. No sending mails for me
4. I let them pay me for my effort not anything else but I keep the prices low
5. I do no upgrade pieces for them
6. I only craft for people that I like

Epona222

JKorr wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Hello Everyone!

This thread is for people who find themselves frequently making armor for others. How do you deal with it? I regret ever letting it be known to friends, guildies, and randoms that I had level 50 crafts and was researching traits. I get too too many PMs asking me to make them stuff! I'm especially bothered by the randoms who just say "can you make me this?" without even bothering to say "hi. how is your day going?" Mind you, this isn't a venting post. I wanted to talk about the crafting system through the lens of the crafter: how it's high risk and low reward.
[snip]
What are yall's ideas? I don't want to say "no" to friends anymore when they ask me to make them stuff just because it's complex and ends up being a resource and gold net loss for me. I want to play with all the styles I have (every single one that is out) and make a lot of pretty things. Help!

I enjoy crafting. While I will make gear for random new people in the starting zones, I generally craft for guildmates. Research trait items I make for free. I make gear, improved to green, for free. I've made glyphs, food, drink, and alchemy potions for free, for guildies. If someone wants nirn items they have to provide the nirnstones; the item I make for free. If they want v16 gear, they do have to give me the mats; I don't have *that* much in my bank.

For that matter, I give out free ww bites, too.

I do ask that they pay it forward; help out someone else sometime. I enjoy crafting. I would like other players to enjoy the game. I know this attitude means I don't have tons of gold, and I feel it is an accomplishment when I get enough gold together to buy another motif that lets me craft more things. I am still having fun in the game and that was and is the whole point for me.

I'd be playing Monopoly or something if my whole purpose was to make money.

I wasn't referring to making research items for people or low level gear upgraded to green or something, that I will happily do, and do regularly for free - it's people wanting a high level/highly upgraded set, with time spent going to usually 2 set crafting stations, which can take a large wedge of time, especially if they are expecting me to provide advice about *what* they want me to craft.

I'll do research pieces or beginner sets (white or green) any time, if anyone wants nirnhoned for research they have to supply the nirncrux or pay for it though.

But I don't think research gear/beginner gear is the point of this thread, I think most of us will happily provide that at no/minimal cost, unless they want it all dwemer or glass or something with an expensive trait mat. But most of us don't want to spend an hour discussing with people that don't know what they want for high level gear and then being told that they don't have the mats for it, so that's another wadge of time being spent on going around guild stores and working out the cost (and then they say "oh I can't afford that") - well done, you just wasted an hour of my time.

By comparison, giving out a ww bite is easy (I have never charged for a bite), it takes like 3 minutes and has no associated cost to the person giving it.

N0TPLAYER2

Epona222 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

Hello Everyone!

This thread is for people who find themselves frequently making armor for others. How do you deal with it? I regret ever letting it be known to friends, guildies, and randoms that I had level 50 crafts and was researching traits. I get too too many PMs asking me to make them stuff! I'm especially bothered by the randoms who just say "can you make me this?" without even bothering to say "hi. how is your day going?" Mind you, this isn't a venting post. I wanted to talk about the crafting system through the lens of the crafter: how it's high risk and low reward.
[snip]
What are yall's ideas? I don't want to say "no" to friends anymore when they ask me to make them stuff just because it's complex and ends up being a resource and gold net loss for me. I want to play with all the styles I have (every single one that is out) and make a lot of pretty things. Help!

I enjoy crafting. While I will make gear for random new people in the starting zones, I generally craft for guildmates. Research trait items I make for free. I make gear, improved to green, for free. I've made glyphs, food, drink, and alchemy potions for free, for guildies. If someone wants nirn items they have to provide the nirnstones; the item I make for free. If they want v16 gear, they do have to give me the mats; I don't have *that* much in my bank.

For that matter, I give out free ww bites, too.

I do ask that they pay it forward; help out someone else sometime. I enjoy crafting. I would like other players to enjoy the game. I know this attitude means I don't have tons of gold, and I feel it is an accomplishment when I get enough gold together to buy another motif that lets me craft more things. I am still having fun in the game and that was and is the whole point for me.

I'd be playing Monopoly or something if my whole purpose was to make money.

I wasn't referring to making research items for people or low level gear upgraded to green or something, that I will happily do, and do regularly for free - it's people wanting a high level/highly upgraded set, with time spent going to usually 2 set crafting stations, which can take a large wedge of time, especially if they are expecting me to provide advice about *what* they want me to craft.

I'll do research pieces or beginner sets (white or green) any time, if anyone wants nirnhoned for research they have to supply the nirncrux or pay for it though.

But I don't think research gear/beginner gear is the point of this thread, I think most of us will happily provide that, unless they want it all dwemer or glass or something with an expensive trait mat. But most of us don't want to spend an hour discussing with people that don't know what they want for high level gear and then being told that they don't have the mats for it, so that's another wadge of time being spent on going around guild stores and working out the cost (and then they say "oh I can't afford that") - well done, you just wasted an hour of my time.

By comparison, giving out a ww bite is easy (I have never charged for a bite), it takes like 3 minutes and has no associated cost to the person giving it.

Same here. Low level easy stuff is free and no problem. It's people who want a trinimac armor master set who expect 20k to be the total price. Not happening without materials and payment.

Teridaxus

I actually craft for free if people provide mats <.<

LadyNalcarya

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Some people, specially some "guildies" in a trade guild, who you never know before asks if anyone can craft something, and when you ask for like 300-500g tips each piece, they would be like "What? I have to pay you even if I provide the mats?" And acts like a couple thousands gold for 10m switching and travelling, not even mention the time and money to research traits and style is too greedy. I can farm that much gold killing mobs in 10m.
Yes I know some people would craft things for guildies for free, but it's not a "duty".

I usually craft for guildies for free (if they provide the mats), but if someone randomly shows up and acts like its my duty to craft for them, I wont do that. Its not like Im an npc or something

Epona222

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

I actually craft for free if people provide mats <.<

This was my approach at first. Good for you, perhaps I should have you spend time running round to set crafting stations for me for free whilst I go out and earn money questing?

magnusthorek

When I met this game, back on beta, I had the tought I could play as a dedicated crafter. You know, learn everything, gear up a backpack and drag on swamps and climb high mountains looking for materials and ingredients, maybe even opening a store, mind you.

Such innocence...

When I was half way to go, more or less, when the four... semi-rare styles (Daedric and cia.) were out there, I used to have some orders here and there, and I always stated that I would charge players proportionally to the difficulty of the order.

Number of traits used to have weight, rarer styles increased a bit more and on top of that, my fees. If people wanted upgraded to Blue or purple and were willing to pay the tempers, I gladly provided the green stage for free.

Then the game begin to ease out here and there. Inspiration bonus so high and stacking with XP potes favored people to get to max levels and with the ton of skill points without use people started investing in the upgrading passives.

No more profit from there.

Then the newer styles went out (Ancient Orc and Mercenary, for example) and with them, the farmers and soon the traders were flooded with them and with low demand and vast abundance, prices dropped very fast, so basically everyone started to know all styles.

Less profit from there.

Finally, the total lack of respect took place and even before we could say all that speech people would come with "I'll tip ya", like if I was a waiter (to say the least).

Long story short, I just stopped. Sometimes when playing my alts I see people desperate for cash, because the endgame doesn't pay well and the top crafters sell their stuff for marginalized profit (and thus break the market and the economy), still offering services in vain.

I'll keep my way, researching traits (still need 15) and gathering motifs (need half of Akaviri) but for my personal gain, for achievements only.

There is not enough motivation and even meaning in being a professional crafter anymore. Another thing that had so much potential ruined by RNG and bad design choices.

Runs

For the most part I don't offer my services as a crafter, other than crafting research items.

It takes too long for the person looking to get materials ready. They almost always tell me they have sent the items a few minutes before they actually do, I don't play my crafter so wait till they say they have sent before logging in to him. By the time everything is said and done it ends up with me wasting half an hour of my time.

Then there are things that just bother me in general. Someone wanting an 8 or 9 trait set on a level 6 set. Or someone that asks every other level. When you can level half naked with found non set items and no CP just fine, you don't really need set pieces till close to end game or if you are into PVP. Then there are those VR16 Characters that needs a 2-3 trait set made(this is just pure lazyness imo).

All that said... When I do craft for someone I do not charge. I just don't believe in charging a guildie, I will just either make it or I wont. Because some people refuse to have something given to them, I have recently started mentioning to people if they feel like tipping to just donate the tip to the guild.

kip_silverwolf

Pandorii wrote: »

Hello Everyone!

This thread is for people who find themselves frequently making armor for others. How do you deal with it? I regret ever letting it be known to friends, guildies, and randoms that I had level 50 crafts and was researching traits. I get too too many PMs asking me to make them stuff! I'm especially bothered by the randoms who just say "can you make me this?" without even bothering to say "hi. how is your day going?" Mind you, this isn't a venting post. I wanted to talk about the crafting system through the lens of the crafter: how it's high risk and low reward.

^^ This!
I once had a guildie whisper me, asking for armour. I told him I was in the middle of a dungeon run but would get back to him when I'd finished. He replied with "You don't understand, I need my armour now". So I replied with, "You don't understand, I'm now not making it."
An hour or so later, he sent me a mail with all the mats plus some gold, along with a very humble apology. XD

Another time I received a message that went something like this: "I want an armour set, any style, just want the khajiit hat. Dunno what traits, doesn't matter. Something between V1-V5. Have sent mats."
(the 'mats' consisted of a handful of Ebonthread which wasn't even useful) I simply returned them, saying to contact me again when they know what they want and have the correct mats.

For my good friends, I will craft anything for free but for those I don't know I tell them to send me a mail listing ALL details plus either provide mats or pay gold. If I don't receive the mail, then I don't craft.

me_ming

I like your idea of giving us the exact number of mats when we deconstruct things. This is what really should happen. Apparently even crafting is an RNG thing in this game, which is annoying. It would definitely help crafters and the economy of the game. I remember once when laurel (and some style mats were bound), one way for you to possibly sell the style mat was craft an item in that style and sell that so people can decon it and get the mat. But because it was too unreliable that you can get the style mat it wasn't even an option. I also like your idea where we can preview the style, I don't know why we can't, to be honest. I kinda like the idea of having to be able to craft sets in one location, but I like to be able to go to the crafting location, I tend to farm some mats along the way. What I do find annoying though is (like in the case of Clever Alchemist) you have to go to the ordeal of avoiding adds just to craft it. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Personally, when I craft for people (friends/guildies) I don't charge (donations are very much appreciated though lol), and yes they have to provide the mats (all of it) or else I really would just return the items they sent. Also I tell people that I will craft on my own time, they are not to rush me, when I am busy they will have to wait. If they want it immediately they best find someone else. Those are my only two conditions. No mats no craft, and I want to enjoy may game not be someone else's tool to make items for them.

As a crafter I may (or may not) have knowledge of what's the BiS (crafted-wise) for each class or what the style looks like or where the stations are, if I don't I will tell you upfront I don't. lol. With regard to which BiS though, I will tell them what is working for me, but that they must have an idea of what their build is.

lassitershawn

Agree that if somebody wants you to decide what sets you should make for their build, that is ridiculous.

When I ask for something to be crafted, I provide all mats and pay for what I don't have if I'm missing something, then typically do a tip of ~5k depending on how much I had crafted (or pay the price the crafter decides on if they have one). Is this considered acceptable by crafters or should I be tipping more?

Also, been thinking about learning crafting since I'm getting bored with the game atm (whenever this happens I always move to a new aspect of the game). When I get to the point where I can make gear, should I charge or let people tip? If most people tip ~5k like me and provide mats I'd be fine with that but if people are tipping like 1k that sounds really depressing.

Epona222

lassitershawn wrote: »

Agree that if somebody wants you to decide what sets you should make for their build, that is ridiculous.

When I ask for something to be crafted, I provide all mats and pay for what I don't have if I'm missing something, then typically do a tip of ~5k depending on how much I had crafted (or pay the price the crafter decides on if they have one). Is this considered acceptable by crafters or should I be tipping more?

Also, been thinking about learning crafting since I'm getting bored with the game atm (whenever this happens I always move to a new aspect of the game). When I get to the point where I can make gear, should I charge or let people tip? If most people tip ~5k like me and provide mats I'd be fine with that but if people are tipping like 1k that sounds really depressing.

I'd consider 5k a good generous tip (based on the cash I could make via other activities in the time I spend crafting, can't speak for others though), more importantly just make sure your client is fully decided on what they want and is prepared to either provide or pay for all the mats - saying "ah never mind it doesn't matter" about being left short 50 rubedo leather per crafting job soon adds up if you let it!

Mirelurk

I was among the first in the game to get nine-traits in everything, but nowadays I only craft for friends and members of my main guild.

Life's too short for the aggravation involved in dealing with crafting for randoms.

radiostar

One of the easiest craft jobs I did was for a pvp player who's first statement was to the effect of "Let me just make sure I get my instructions correct from my mentor". After that, they had a complete list of what they wanted made along with traits, quality and enchants. Maybe the takeaway is just expect a crafter to be a crafter, not a mentor

Epona222

radiostar wrote: »

One of the easiest craft jobs I did was for a pvp player who's first statement was to the effect of "Let me just make sure I get my instructions correct from my mentor". After that, they had a complete list of what they wanted made along with traits, quality and enchants. Maybe the takeaway is just expect a crafter to be a crafter, not a mentor

Sounds like the perfect crafting client

SkoomaAddict420

I craft all most anything for free for anyone, except for rares they must provide them their self. Do to memorize disabilities, they must know where and what they want. For true noobs I'll help them out more. I will even go out of my way to collect mats if I don't already have them, not like when I break them down I don't get rares. They just have to understand getting the right mats requires time. Now I am not above taking a tip of any sort if they are inclined to do so...

magnusthorek

I disagree with deconstruction returning 100% of items used to craft.

Something this game really tries if compared to Skyrim, for example, is immersion. Fortunately it's not massive like all of the many mods Skyrim has just for this matter.

The point I'm touching with this is the depreciation concept.

For example, a leather armor uses the tanned hide mostly, but some of the leather is transformed in stripes (although we don't see them connecting the front with the back most of the times). Not only you won't get a whole piece of leather from stripes but you'll hardly get a perfect new stripe as you undo the armor (they usually spoil in the proccess).

Also, theoretically speaking, when you create armor of higher levels from materials of same tier, you're compressing several, leathers in the example, into one single thicker plaque (usually with some resin in between). Deconstructing such plaque will indeed destroy some of the layers used, if not all of it. It's inevitable!

I would go far with tempers. IMHO I don't see how they could be extracted from a piece of gear in a realistic way. Oils get dry, linen rip themselves, solvents get saturated with the material particles they were applied and waxes solidify - and they're supposed to be used hot, melted). In this matter, extracting upgrading materials should not even be possible.

They should be sold by some NPC supposedly experienced in crafting them from raw materials. It would explain why Dreugh Waxes are expensive >.<

More! This would even open the possibility for new content for the already pseudo-confirmed housing DLC: small refining stations, so we could play medieval Walter White XD

Trait stones are fine as they're now. You may, or may not receive. The stone may, or may not crack during the extraction.

Epona222

magnusthorek wrote: »

I disagree with deconstruction returning 100% of items used to craft.

Something this game really tries if compared to Skyrim, for example, is immersion. Fortunately it's not massive like all of the many mods Skyrim has just for this matter.

The point I'm touching with this is the depreciation concept.

For example, a leather armor uses the tanned hide mostly, but some of the leather is transformed in stripes (although we don't see them connecting the front with the back most of the times). Not only you won't get a whole piece of leather from stripes but you'll hardly get a perfect new stripe as you undo the armor (they usually spoil in the proccess).

Also, theoretically speaking, when you create armor of higher levels from materials of same tier, you're compressing several, leathers in the example, into one single thicker plaque (usually with some resin in between). Deconstructing such plaque will indeed destroy some of the layers used, if not all of it. It's inevitable!

I would go far with tempers. IMHO I don't see how they could be extracted from a piece of gear in a realistic way. Oils get dry, linen rip themselves, solvents get saturated with the material particles they were applied and waxes solidify - and they're supposed to be used hot, melted). In this matter, extracting upgrading materials should not even be possible.

They should be sold by some NPC supposedly experienced in crafting them from raw materials. It would explain why Dreugh Waxes are expensive >.<

More! This would even open the possibility for new content for the already pseudo-confirmed housing DLC: small refining stations, so we could play medieval Walter White XD

Trait stones are fine as they're now. You may, or may not receive. The stone may, or may not crack during the extraction.

Tbh, (and although I agree with a lot of what you have said), that is not really the point of the discussion in this thread. We're talking about acceptable amounts to charge/tip, and how to approach crafters when wanting high level gear made - not returns on deconstructing stuff.

magnusthorek

I know, I know, it was just a big, huge parentheses to the subject.

Hey, gimme some credit. I typed it all in my phone

saps101

Friends pay you for this??

I just get bullied into crafting sets for 4 vr 16s, have to put up with constant bitching about styles, not upgrading past purple, not predicting they get an 'amazing looking chest' and having to change the set bonuses to compensate.

People just don't understand the time investment, how long it takes to figure out sets, the hours gathering, the ridiculously low chance of gold mats (no 10k will not get you a vr16 gold anything). Or the amount of time i have to spend doing boring s**t for them, whilst there in cyrodill or doing the dungeon pledge, which i need too...

Epona222

magnusthorek wrote: »

I know, I know, it was just a big, huge parentheses to the subject.

Hey, gimme some credit. I typed it all in my phone

Good grief, that must have seemed like writing a novel if you were doing it on your phone! Kudos to you for even making the effort, anything I type from my phone tends to be one word responses.

MisterBastahrd

People seem shocked when I charge upfront for crafting fees and then ask that they provide all materials. They seem to fail to realize that I have to stop what I'm doing in order to create their stuff, which means I'm getting neither AP nor gold nor materials while I'm making their armor.

Furthermore, becoming a crafter who can do 9 traits and multiple styles is EXPENSIVE. The average price of nirncrux for armor is about 9K per piece. It's about 14K per piece for weapons. And that's if you can find someone willing to make the item for you. If you want to buy a completed piece of armor to research in a guild store, it will cost about 11-13K per armor and 17-24K per weapon. Multiply that by all the various armor pieces (light, medium, and heavy) and then add to that all the weapons. We're talking hundreds of thousands of gold, just to unlock all 9 traits.

So I will continue to craft, but not without compensation, and I refuse to craft clever alchemist or any of the imperial city sets except for friends. Clever Alchemist because I refuse to entertain the vicious death stupidity which has become standard in Cyrodiil, and the others because it usually costs me considerable time and soul gems just to get to the crafting station.

I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to give up materials for spell power potions to feed vicious death addiction. Not happening. Go pick your flowers just like every other scrub. I'll still make armor trait pieces for people who need to research for free, though. I'm not a monster, after all.

Luigi_Vampa

saps101 wrote: »

Friends pay you for this??

I just get bullied into crafting sets for 4 vr 16s, have to put up with constant bitching about styles, not upgrading past purple, not predicting they get an 'amazing looking chest' and having to change the set bonuses to compensate.

People just don't understand the time investment, how long it takes to figure out sets, the hours gathering, the ridiculously low chance of gold mats (no 10k will not get you a vr16 gold anything). Or the amount of time i have to spend doing boring s**t for them, whilst there in cyrodill or doing the dungeon pledge, which i need too...

You need to stand up for yourself.

Epona222

saps101 wrote: »

Friends pay you for this??

I just get bullied into crafting sets for 4 vr 16s, have to put up with constant bitching about styles, not upgrading past purple, not predicting they get an 'amazing looking chest' and having to change the set bonuses to compensate.

People just don't understand the time investment, how long it takes to figure out sets, the hours gathering, the ridiculously low chance of gold mats (no 10k will not get you a vr16 gold anything). Or the amount of time i have to spend doing boring s**t for them, whilst there in cyrodill or doing the dungeon pledge, which i need too...

Say no to that, that's a ridiculous burden put on to you. If they want you to spend time on that instead of earning XP/AP (and assuming you are still willing, you could just say no), then they need to compensate you for that time. You are not the lowly blacksmith to their knights.