Crafting for Others - High Risk, Low Reward

Danksta

Gargath wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

4) Finding Crafting Bonus Stations

Well this point was unfortunate, since most crafters probably have addon Crafting Stations, so they literally need few seconds to open map and find desired location .

I'm guessing that most crafters don't have access to add-ons.

myrrrorb14_ESO

I usually only craft for guildmates or friends and I make them send me an email with their exact needs and then I have them on chat to confirm as I'm crafting vr16.

I do get bombarded at times and have to tell them it will be a couple days so I can go out adventuring.

I once gave a price to a random guy and never heard from him again lol. People want stuff for free!

phreatophile

I like all the ideas.

I only craft for friends or guild members, and I usually provide them a shopping list that includes style pieces.

CasNation

I made most of my money from crafting. It used to be more lucrative before everyone had researched everything, and 8 trait crafter were actually somewhat rare.

These days I NEVER craft anything for anyone unless they supply the mats. Even if I did carry around 2000 rubedite at all times, I am not going to put those resources at risk for a client who might not pay. Similarly, I am not going to go out and buy resources at variable prices not knowing if the customer will pay.

I also almost never craft "made-to-order" gear anymore. It takes WAAAY too much time for the money involved. If I sell anything now, it is though the guild store where I control what I make, but that has become less and less profitable now as well.

At the end of the day, I pretty much just craft for myself and close friends or guides I know well.

silky_soft

As 8 trait master crafters we should be able to:
- Craft straight to gold or any color.
- Let there be a chance to proc efficiency, get up to 10-20% mats returned from enchanting and initial craft.
- Wayshrine straight to crafting locations
- Allow anyone to package materials into the item they want. So we don't have to deal with mats going all over the shop and all correct mats are there. Also provides additional security for customer as it would prevent us decon it. Link it with current cod system.
- Help us create sets faster by giving us a checkbox to select more than one item to craft. Also add quantity.
- Idealy if the craftbox was implemented give us an escrow board where we can take up jobs or let us fill orders.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

I find it fairly pretentious of Crafters that:
A) they want mats and the lot
b) wants us to tell them what we want (precisely no less!!!) (As if we know, bah) (We don't!!!)
C) and then on top want to be paid!!!

1) No company works that way, they got their own ***.
2) You call yourself a crafter, whilst not being a mindreader????
3) as for gold: you want everyrhing from us, and still be paid? The guts!!!!!

Sadly, there are quite a few that think like this.

I for one, if i ask to something been made in the Guild, they know i dropped any piece of mat I could came across (and I am NOT kidding here) in the guild.
As for payment: I ask up front what the cost would be, and then add some, as token of appreciation.
And I ALWAYS tell them precisely what i want, well, save for the looks, I could not care less about them.
If an item is good, who cares how it looks.

Taisynn

I've always been self-sufficient. I have my own enchater and I have a provisioner, clothier, and woodworker; my boyfriend does the blacksmithing.

I've never asked nor expected anyone to make me gear. I'm shocked by some of the entitlement I've seen here. It takes time!

For one Inferno Fire Staff Nirnhoned, it cost me 20k. And that was cheap according to Master Merchant. And it takes 27 days, 27 DAYS, for it to be done researching. And it's my 8th trait researched.

Imagine doing that for all weapon and armor pieces. One each. It's not cheap nor easy!

Septimus_Magna

I have a very different experience with crafting for friends and guildies.

Most of the time they ask if I have time to craft them something and what styles I have available. They name the set, pieces, weight, trait and style they want. 98% of the time they provide the mats, if not I provide them for the MM price.

When Im done crafting I send the pieces and let them decide a price. Usually Im paid 3-5k per piece.

If players act like a d*ck I just send back the mats and block them but that only happened on a few occations.

waterfairy

Having a proper display for what items look like before crafting them is long overdue. I've wasted so many materials because of the tiny half image but I can only blame myself for personal mistakes.

The rest of your issues are your own, the person should either supply the materials or properly compensate you for them...sometimes both.

Curtdogg47

Once I did craft a set for a random dude but he supplied the mats all of them actually. And he knew exactly everything he wanted. Style, and Traits. The best part was he was very polite and thankful for the help.
But generally no, I don't craft for the general public! This guy came across me on night I was just sitting at crafting station, contemplating my armor. And as a way to clear my head I crafted him a set.

dem0n1k

I have a master crafter & used to craft gear for my friends & guildies. I actually had minimal problems & everyone was very happy & thankful for my work... but it was still tedious to spend so long carefully crafting gear all the time. I have 8 toons that are still leveling up so even crafting gear for them every 10 levels is a bit tiresome. So now I just knock back all crafting requests... not my thing. For my friends I just craft low level gear with traits for them to research so they can craft their own gear.

Totally agree on the point that the icons for crafting need to be MUCH LARGER & more detailed!

I also want to complain about the cost of Pact style materials... 10k AP each!?! Why!?

AtraisMachina

Yea idk what you said in that wot but i do hate it when people ask me what the best style is. The least you can do like the very least you can do before asking for crafts is figure out what freakin style you want!!!

Eocosa

I have to agree with what most people here seem to be claiming as well as a constant problem/headache just about every crafter in every MMO has had to experience at sometime or another. Crafting is often a more "mundane" part of a game that many people seem to think is "boring" (and that is certainly their right), and as someone who spends their time doing this you certainly have the right to make some in-game money off it! How you go about setting up your own little business is up to you.

Some crafters will be well versed in the meta and will help a customer design their armor from the wait, to the trait, to the set bonus, and even offer suggestions on style. Others will only do what is asked of them. Of course many fall in between as well.

How trusting are you? Some will not craft with any materials of their own and/or expect payment up front. This is totally fair and a reasonable thing to do especially after you have been stiffed a few times.

Who do you want to craft for? Anyone/everyone who asks you to? Just friends? Guildies and friends? Referrals from friends? This can really have a huge impact on how much you enjoy crafting because people who you know may be more inclined to do the research you ask them to or at the very least you can see helping them as a favor as opposed to be "scammed" by someone who does not pay up.

Of course only you can make these calls for yourself and what would influence your enjoyment the most. If you feel you are being taken for granted by most people then by all means only craft for close friends and tell everyone else thats all you do. It is certainly your prerogative you did all the work! In these cases you hold all of the cards, so you certainly get to make the call!

Having said all of that, a "Dressing room" or the like with motif styles would be GREATLY appreciated! Failing that send any potential customers to eso-fashion and have them do the research on their desired gear.

Annalyse

Pandorii wrote: »

Or they'll say "leave it white" even though they know we're going to make it green, or blue, or PURPLE.

I don't get the problem with this to be honest.... if someone tells me "leave it white," I do it. They obviously want to refine themselves or it is a research piece, but one way or the other it is easier for me to not bother with that. If they want it refined, they can send me the materials to do it.

I don't craft as much for people these days because it does get tiresome, and I crafted all of my own stuff as I levelled up so I figure that others can do the same. If I'm not busy and it is something simple to do like a research piece, or a set from a crafting station that isn't too much trouble to get to, then I will do it. For research pieces I don't mind using my own style materials because I generally have excess of ones that I don't use often, but I ask for them to send everything else. If something isn't sent, I just ask again. But I never craft unless someone knows exactly what they want and has all of the mats.

I definitely do agree that motif styles should be previewable at crafting stations. There are no websites that have every style in every level so it is often a gamble.

Cryptical

Pandorii wrote: »

Or they'll say "leave it white" even though they know we're going to make it green, or blue, or PURPLE.

Even as a self-crafter, I see what you say as reasonable. Making my own sets and such, and hearing non-crafters acting like the crafting process is simple, I can see where you're coming from. Except for this part.

If they say leave it white, or don't include the stuff to improve it, then leave it white. Because sometimes the person NEEDS it to be white.

Why could someone possibly need it to be white? So that when they are comparing results from set A to the results from set B, they know they are comparing apples to apples. Drop a blue or purple into there and you have forced math on someone. A 5 white set A / 4 white set B requires percentage math before you can compare it to a 4 white set A / 4 white and 1 purple set B. The math gets worse when that purple piece is divines, so now you have to de-purple the mundus parts to compare mundus stone 1 to mundus stone 2. Then you get into comparing how champion points impact the comparison between 5White SetA/4White SetB mundus 1 versus 4White SetA/4White 1Purple SetB mundus 2... And math gets *real*. And it would need to be done, because light sash divines hist may be better for me than light sash divines lamae, except that lamae is purple and that obscures a legit comparison.

Yeah. I'm testing a whole new direction for my main, between 3 sets. I made 26 items, some vary by light/medium/heavy for activating passives and which look better, and vary on trait options, all are white so that I can compare apples to apples regarding the numbers. I needed ONE made for me because I can't finish light sash divines for a couple weeks. I needed it white, got purple. The improvement boost on the purple makes the comparisons invalid. The person was being nice by doing it. But as the item skews the numbers I'm looking at, it is useless to me. There is no way in hell I'm going to do by hand all the pencil and paper math to de-purple one piece of armor and re-calculate across 6 mundus stones, then mix and match with those other pieces - every inch of it now done by hand because on the screen it's still purple. Screw. That. It could take a week just for the math, for something that otherwise I could just flip back and forth on the screen.

So - if they didn't ask for improvements, didn't pay for improvements, or didn't include the mats for improvements... Don't do it. On one hand, if you do improve it then you are validating a sense of improvements being free, like the handful of fortune cookies tossed into the bag of chinese food but never shown on the bill. On the other hand, if you do improve it you may be inflicting algebra on people and provoking frustration.

Vangy

Pandorii wrote: »

Hello Everyone!

This thread is for people who find themselves frequently making armor for others. How do you deal with it? I regret ever letting it be known to friends, guildies, and randoms that I had level 50 crafts and was researching traits. I get too too many PMs asking me to make them stuff! I'm especially bothered by the randoms who just say "can you make me this?" without even bothering to say "hi. how is your day going?" Mind you, this isn't a venting post. I wanted to talk about the crafting system through the lens of the crafter: how it's high risk and low reward.

Crafting has a lot of moving parts! It has the styles (which currently, you cannot preview and have to have a semi-photographic memory of what they look like or resort to the esofashion website). It has the weights, traits, set type, and color. As a crafter, I have been expected to a. know what style is best (wtf), b. know what armor sets are best for their class (wtf), c. know which pieces to make heavy, medium, or light, depending on their undaunted level (wtf). d. I am expected to know where the crafting locations are (or look it up...see a trend here).

AND every once in a while, you get that one person who says "I don't have any mats, can I just pay you?" e. Lastly, you're sometimes expected to have every single material available in the game!

As a crafter, I spent countless hours monitoring my trait research. I spent countless mats and resources to get traits (from friends or buy them), especially those pesky nirnhoned pieces. On top of that, I have to be able to do all those things listed above? We do it for fun. We do it for completion. Some of us do it for profit, but I don't think the pay is ever enough for what they are asking us to do. One little slip up, like forgetting to toggle to the crafting set and making it normal will result in a net loss (resources and gold) for the crafter! Recent example, I offered to make vet 16 armor for a friend. He failed to mention whether he wanted the light chest piece in robe or jerkin. I made a Robe, and I found out later he wanted jerkin. I had to use my own mats to remake it.

My solution: I tell people I will them armor if they supply the mats. I know I'm not the only one with this policy. Yet, how many times have I gotten mats in the mail without the trait gem. Sapphires don't grow on trees! How many times have you had someone ask you to make them a full set of xivkyn armor? They provided the mats but no style material; so it's costing me, the crafter, 7k (for the charcoal) to help them? WTF?

People aren't supplying all the mats! Non-crafters don't understand how many moving parts. They don't think to tell us exactly what they want. They leave us with "you can pick the style" and send us no style gems. Or they'll say "leave it white" even though they know we're going to make it green, or blue, or PURPLE. They send us knee deep into enemy territory to make clever alchemist with complete disregard for the precious soul gems we spend to get there.

Now that I've rambled enough. I thought I'd paint a picture. What are some solutions to simplify the crafting process? Here's where I need help from my fellow crafters.

First, I propose that deconstructing items actually reimburse you 100 percent what you used. If you accidentally craft the wrong thing, you can just redo your work without penalty. Why do we only get 1 temper, rosin, or wax from deconstructing gold items when it took 8 to make it that way? (excluding dropped gold items).

Second, allow crafters to preview styles. Sheesh.

Third, streamline the crafting site process. Maybe once you unlock a site, you can make that set in any location.

What are yall's ideas? I don't want to say "no" to friends anymore when they ask me to make them stuff just because it's complex and ends up being a resource and gold net loss for me. I want to play with all the styles I have (every single one that is out) and make a lot of pretty things. Help!

Well I have 50 in almost all crafts but I never did bother to make my own gear cos I do not have all the styles. I do however have a few friends who can craft and I definitely reward them well for their services. After all they did bother to get all their crafts to 50 + they keep very up to date with their crafting styles which is a HUGE commitment... Not to mention gold cost... Sorry for you bad experiences with pricks OP. Crafting should take work. The fault lies not in the crafter but people asking for help being lazy. That is what needs to be addressed. The crafting system is fine.

I try to make it as easy as possible for the crafter involved should I require their services. Basically my exchanges with my crafting friends are as follows;

1. Pm: " hey man/mrs, hope you are having a wonderful day. I need some gear crafted and I was wondering if you would like to help me out." --> if Yes, proceed to 2.

2. Them: sure whay ya need (or something along these lines)
me: I'll send you a mail with the what I need as well as the mats required + a x gold tip! (x depends on what I need. For a full v16 crafted set I normally tip ard 5k.

3. Examples of what goes into mail;

START OF MAIL

Title : gear for @Vangy!

Hi,

Thanks so much for taking the time!

List of gear: (all V___) ie: level req.

5 piece ______ set, (5 medium, divines) --> _____ style
2 piece _______ set, (x weight, x trait) ---> ______ style

blah blah blah ( basically list all traits and all details so its easy for crafter). Basically break down everything you need into this format. (set name/weight/trait/style... Also make sure you mention level req and what QUALITY you want it. For me I can upgrade gear myself so I specify for them to leave it white). Dont forget, light armour has robe, jerkin. Specify every little requirement.


Thanks so much for taking the time and you do not have to craft it straight away! This mail and mats are just for reference and feel free to take your time!

Attachments : X base mat for level appropriate items (go to a crafting table and do some math...), X style material for rare gear like alliance war, for trait stones most of my crafting friends dont require them unless its nirnhorned. --> I ask for mine to be white quality but if you need yours upgraded, you should attach the upgrade material too.

END OF MAIL

[Note: Being detailed means they dont need to take anymore time to keep pming you and asking you more questions. This saves not just your time, but theirs too. Because 5k isnt really a lot of money and most people dont like crafting every tom, *** and harry some gear. Its your job to make it as conducive as possible for them to help you. If they figure that you are a good source of income for them, ie : they spend just a little time to get an easy 5k tip, they will be more inclined to help you craft stuff as and when you need it.]

I have a group of regular crafting friends who love working with me. Basically because I make it as EASY as it is possible for them. All they need to do is pick up my mail and attachments, go to a crafting table and hit R. Every single bit of information they need is all in the mail. They maybe have to spend ard 10-15 minutes and get a nice tip of 5k for their time! This ensure that they are happy and I too get my gear in a timely manner! + I have points in crafting so they only need to make my gear white! I can upgrade it myself so they save even more time with me.


**DISCLAIMER**--> do NOT mail your mats and gold to random people you meet on zone chat. The above exchanges are with my guildies or long time friends. I have heard cases of people making away with ard 300-400k worth of materials... Be careful and stick to working with guildies/guild officers!

GarnetFire17

I don't mind crafting for people in my guild or friends like maybe once a day max. I do want to get paid for my mats, and appreciate tips otherwise. I does bother me that so many people want other people to make them stuff. like hundings night mother sets at level 15 on the first play through. It's kind of a weak thing to do. that is why I stopped asking people for stuff period. only thing i ask for is when i need something for research because it was not lucky enough to get a drop for it. or it was a like nirnhoned trait I didn't have.

Pandorii

GarnetFire17 wrote: »

I don't mind crafting for people in my guild or friends like maybe once a day max. I do want to get paid for my mats, and appreciate tips otherwise. I does bother me that so many people want other people to make them stuff. like hundings night mother sets at level 15 on the first play through. It's kind of a weak thing to do. that is why I stopped asking people for stuff period. only thing i ask for is when i need something for research because it was not lucky enough to get a drop for it. or it was a like nirnhoned trait I didn't have.

Ohh my, yes. They ask you for level 15 hundings/night mothers and in three days, they're asking for gear all over again. Sheesh.