Crafting for Others - High Risk, Low Reward

Judas Helviaryn

I generally have a copy/paste template I have the customer fill out, and make it clear that they provide the materials, excluding most trait stones and green tempers. A standard fee per item, if applicable, is required on return of the completed job. The template simplifies the request and minimizes my risk as the crafter, mistake-wise, and helps solidify exactly what the customer wants. No loose ends, easy peasy.

Pandorii

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

I generally have a copy/paste template I have the customer fill out, and make it clear that they provide the materials, excluding most trait stones and green tempers. A standard fee per item, if applicable, is required on return of the completed job. The template simplifies the request and minimizes my risk as the crafter, mistake-wise, and helps solidify exactly what the customer wants. No loose ends, easy peasy.

Time to make a template!

Brutusmax1mus

I only craft of its my mats. Mo money baby. Except gold upgrade materials and vet 16 quantities of material like silk, they need to provide those or pay me up front at trader cost.

I require then to know exactly what they want down to trait and style. Style mats like daedric, mercenary, xivkyn, anc orc, etc are extra, I'm not giving that expensive stuff away for free. You should like you're too nice to be a successful business person. Recreating on your dime bc u made a robe when they didn't specify they wanted a shirt, yea f that.

Pirsius

This is just my system:

When it comes to crafting for guildies and other players, I expect them to provide all the mats, including style material and trait material. If they do not send the entire set of materials needed to craft the gear, I just send them back their materials and kindly inform them that there are missing materials. If they wish to move forward with the transaction, they just need to send all the required mats. No harm, no foul.

If they do not provide mats, and instead want to pay, I provide them with the cost. I have a spreadsheet with a rough estimate of the current cost for each material. I expect payment upfront, and I include a small % fee for each trait required. (Ex. 6% for Hunding's, 9% for Twice-Born). Guildies get the fee half-off.

I only charge an extra fee if I have to go out of my way to purchase/find the materials myself.

NBrookus

As a crafter, I sympathize with all these complaints. For every person who is an awesome customer, there's about 20 that are total PITAs. I've gone down the same road as many here and become rather inflexible. Send me a mail with ALL the details and ALL the mats. I'll do it when I'm on my crafter. No whispers, and no, I won't go shopping for you and find all the mats and send you a bill. You can see how many ingots are required at any crafting station. Eso-fashion to pick your style.

New low level chums in guilds are different; I can raid the guild bank and make them promise to pay the guild bank back. But I've had to mentally turn off requests in guild chat sometimes. I can't help everyone or I'd never play.

I'll also sometimes pick up very specific requests in zone chat for things like research items.

There's one case where I will spot you the style mats. I will craft you a full set of Akavari. You just need to send me the motif pages.

Silver_Strider

Just an FYI, These are general PS4 NA prices, not sure on other platforms/servers but this is the norm as far as I can tell.

I generally set up a criteria for when I have to craft something for people.
I send them a general lay out of exactly what they want me to craft.

Level: ???
Piece of Gear: ???
Type of Armor: ???
Style: ???
Trait: ???
Set: ???

Example:
Level: VR14
PoG: Chest
ToA: Medium
Style: Redguard
Trait: Divines
Set: Hundings Rage

From there, I determine the pricing depending on several factors
Did they provide the Shadowhide?
" " Style stone?
" " Trait stone?
" " Tempers/Resins/etc to upgrade the gear to green/blue/purple/gold?

Typically, the answer to the Style and Trait stones is no, so I charge them a minimal of 3k (For time and using my materials). If they do provide everything, I only charge 1k. If they provide absolutely nothing, it's 6k. If it's VR16 and they don't provide the mats, it's 15k minimal.

Upgrading the gear ranges from the color they want and the cost of replacing said materials should I need to use my own.
Green - +500 gold
Blue - +1500 gold
Purple - +4k gold
Gold - +80k - 8k for each gold material they offer.

The only exception to these rules are for the rare crafting style where their trait stones are a hassle to acquire, such as the Alliance motif stones, in which case the 3k minimal is upped by 6k for each piece of gear requested in this style to cover the cost of purchasing these rare stones myself or using the ones I already have available.

I explain very clearly my rules and if the person agrees, I proceed with crafting their gear and sending it C.O.D thru the mail so as to make 100% I don't get robbed.

I have gotten the whole "whatever style you think looks best" or "I don't care whatever style" bits before. If they proceed to say that I can choose, despite my best effort to convince them to pick one themselves, I pick whatever style I have plenty of style stones for and go from there. Some people either love or hate it but that's all on them at that point. Looks are subjective after all.

For research purpose crafting, I generally don't charge anything EXCEPT for Nirnhoned because those stones are expensive so it's 8k for nirn armors and 18k for nirn weapons.

Pandorii

@Silver_Strider thank you very much for this information. Super Helpful!

FortheloveofKrist

redspecter23 wrote: »

For me, I ask a few things.

1. The customer must know exactly what they want. I won't make "the best looking motif" or "the best dps set". If someone asks for that, I tell them to go do some research and come back later. Also on any order, I have the customer send a detailed mail. If there is any confusion after the items are received, I can refer back to the order. I also use mailr to keep a copy of my sent mail so I know exactly what items I sent to them if I use mail for the trade.

Yes.

2. I do use my own mats. I have a bank full of mats that I use for crafting and for custom orders. I find it's less work to just use my mats than have someone send their own and have me check it for accuracy. It also allows me to sell items for a higher price as I include mat cost. I accept mats from guildies and friends though.

Yes!!!! People either can't count or can't count.

3. The customer usually pays up front. If it's under a few thousand gold worth of mats, I may send cod or meet up and trade after it's complete, but on large set orders of v16 items, gold is paid up front. I take no offense if the buyer doesn't want to do this but if I don't know them, I take the risk out of my side of the deal.

Holy ****, YES!! The buyer should assume the risk, not the crafter.

PSA to Buyers:
Ask for exactly what you want from the beginning. Don't say "Can someone make me some armor?" and then tell me later after I've switched toons that you want two different 5 piece sets, that you think "basic" means all blue, and that you want two pieces Nirn. AND that you're going to pay about 5000 total, cause "that should cover it." Uh...no.

Gargath

Honestly I consider most people asking for crafting gears too lazy to invest their time and gold into research, and I just ignore all requests from such randoms and most of guildies. I let others to risk their time and money if they wish.
I only craft for myself and my friends if they ask - simply I know who to trust.

And if I see someone telling that he/she cannot provide any mats, but has gold instead, I ignore these even more. So they are so much lazy they do not bother to go to any crafting station to see how many materials are needed and then to store to buy materials. For such laziness I simply don't have time .

So far I asked someone (one of my guild masters) only two times to craft me something (twice-born-star set), and I knew precisely what mats are needed and got them all and sent with payment in advance.

ArchMikem

There are many who just want the easy way.

If you were higher level than me I'd just ask you to make a butt load of basic high level gear with the Intricate trait so I can deconstruct it all, then I'd be able to make my own gear.

clocksstoppe

I don't understand. You ask to do literally nothing but hit the "craft" button and be rewarded for it?

This is not normal. If I buy a car the dealer doesn't ask me to individually buy all the car parts because he wouldn't have a business.

What you expect from your customers is unreasonable. They don't care how you make it, because they pay you for the final items. They don't care where the crafting set location is because it's not their problem to get there. They don't care how many materials it takes to make it because it's not their problem. Based on what you said, I wouldn't use your crafting services because they are terrible to say the least.

If you want to stop being a bad crafter, then make the right price. The harder you make it for the customer the worse it gets for you as well.

"Give me crafting materials" is such a dumb business practice I see among many crafters, it makes me ashamed of being a crafter. You should have all available materials and then just tell the customer the price. Be professional if you want to be good.

Gargath

clocksstoppe wrote: »

This is not normal. If I buy a car the dealer doesn't ask me to individually buy all the car parts because he wouldn't have a business.

Well this isn't a good comparison, because when you buy a car you see the seller and talk to him and make a contract on paper and you can try a car before you buy it. Even if you buy a car over Internet, which I have never did and won't, because of the risk, you pay in advance before you even smell the car and all the risk is only on your side.

Now try to find a typical random customer for your in game gears, who don't know the value of materials, don't know how many materials are needed, and you inform him about fixed price in gold which he must send you in advance. As for me being this customer, I wouldn't accept such deal, if you are not a trusted crafter.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Gargath wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

This is not normal. If I buy a car the dealer doesn't ask me to individually buy all the car parts because he wouldn't have a business.

Well this isn't a good comparison, because when you buy a car you see the seller and talk to him and make a contract on paper and you can try a car before you buy it. Even if you buy a car over Internet, which I have never did and won't, because of the risk, you pay in advance before you even smell the car and all the risk is only on your side.

Now try to find a typical random customer for your in game gears, who don't know the value of materials, don't know how many materials are needed, and you inform him about fixed price in gold which he must send you in advance. As for me being this customer, I wouldn't accept such deal, if you are not a trusted crafter.

Ya but understand my side too. i spend all this time making gear with my mats and then you change your mind. Or someone msgd you said they would sell you it cheaper. Or you tell me after you got your guildmate to do it. I need to get paid up front before I craft stuff. Otherwise I end up having gear I dont need and cant use. Nevermind wasted time and mats.

k9mouse

to @clocksstoppe *NOTHING* means the following:

1) Hours of finding items to reseach
2) For the 9th trait, it takes 30 days to research times every part of the armor and weapon in game
3) Grinding / Farming / buy style books
4) Finding Crafting Bonus Stations
5) Giving up my play time to do work for the buyer

The buyer may not see how much is done in the background; but it is done none the less.

That is whole lot of *NOTHING*

clocksstoppe

k9mouse wrote: »

to @clocksstoppe *NOTHING* means the following:

1) Hours of finding items to reseach
2) For the 9th trait, it takes 30 days to research times every part of the armor and weapon in game
3) Grinding / Farming / buy style books
4) Finding Crafting Bonus Stations
5) Giving up my play time to do work for the buyer

The buyer may not see how much is done in the background; but it is done none the less.

That is whole lot of *NOTHING*

1) and 2)Researching is done in parallel with playing, you're making it seem much more than it really is.
3)For exotic motifs your price should reflect that.
4)Get real use an online map.
5)It's your choice to do so. If you don't charge for your services then lol.

Gargath

k9mouse wrote: »

4) Finding Crafting Bonus Stations

Well this point was unfortunate, since most crafters probably have addon Crafting Stations, so they literally need few seconds to open map and find desired location .

FortheloveofKrist

clocksstoppe wrote: »

1) and 2)Researching is done in parallel with playing, you're making it seem much more than it really is.
3)For exotic motifs your price should reflect that.
4)Get real use an online map.
5)It's your choice to do so. If you don't charge for your services then lol.

Entitlement is strong in this one.

Korah_Eaglecry

When I do craft someone something they either outright pay me market value for the items with labor added on. Or they provide everything + labor.

Im not spending all of this time, effort and money to level up my crafting so those who didnt bother to do it can benefit. Theyre free to go find someone else if they disagree. But if they do they might as well scratch me off their friendslist because I wont do business with them again. Our "friendship" is not a one way street and my kindness is not at their disposal whenever they please. If I was to volunteer my crafting abilities to someone its one thing. Its another when they ask.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I tell people who dont want to pay up front my price that is ok. I just have to protect my interests. If they wont pay up front probably something shady going on anyways. Maybe they just like to make people do things for no reason. Who knows.

LBxFinalDeath

Way I see it...in terms of pvp the better a friendly is equipped means the better that particular friendly can help with wiping out enemies.

attackjet

I just gave my crafter 5 malacath motifs and have given him over 25k gold.

Korah_Eaglecry

clocksstoppe wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

to @clocksstoppe *NOTHING* means the following:

1) Hours of finding items to reseach
2) For the 9th trait, it takes 30 days to research times every part of the armor and weapon in game
3) Grinding / Farming / buy style books
4) Finding Crafting Bonus Stations
5) Giving up my play time to do work for the buyer

The buyer may not see how much is done in the background; but it is done none the less.

That is whole lot of *NOTHING*

1) and 2)Researching is done in parallel with playing, you're making it seem much more than it really is.
3)For exotic motifs your price should reflect that.
4)Get real use an online map.
5)It's your choice to do so. If you don't charge for your services then lol.

Then go learn to craft on your own. If its so easy by all means.

Epona222

WRT the first part of the opening post, I just want to say this to everyone who plays and may want to have gear crafted for them - it is NOT the crafter's job to help you decide what set is best for your build, or help you decide what style you want.

If you want gear crafted, talk with friends or guildmates to determine what sets would work best with your build, and go to ESO Fashion or similar websites to look for yourself at the different styles.

When you approach a crafter, you should already have decided what you want (sets, traits, style, on every piece - and be able to provide a concise list of what you want for each slot), not expect the crafter to help you decide.

Crafters want to have free time to play the game too!

CaptainBeerDude

lordrichter wrote: »

Pandorii wrote: »

@lordrichter Not to put a too fine point on it, but I am wondering how many people agree that it's a crafters duty to be a well of knowledge on set combinations for the variety of different builds there are in the game?

Sounds a bit role playish, but is it not enough that we have spent time to develop a unique skill set with patience and perseverance that allows us to be an asset in our community (guild or otherwise) and to our friends?

I feel like you're underscoring the time and effort it takes to a. have traits researched, b. located crafting sites, and c. gathered, purchased, and learned style motifs.

=D Food for thought.

The bottom line is that you should know more about the craft, the styles, the sets, the materials needed, and the locations than they do. This is not role playing, this is just knowing what you are doing. If you have to look this up on the internet, fine, but don't complain because they should know more than you about what it is you are doing.

Do you even craft, Bro?

It is a huge time sink. And don't even get me started on farming mats. You can either spend a huge amount of time (find nodes) or money (guild traders) in order to get the chance to refine some gold mats.
The customer should also know what they want as this is the easiest way to avoid disputes. Asking for advice between a couple of sets is ok, but a vague 'best DPS set' excludes you from making complaints. You have visited a crafter, build advice is a premium on top of crafting costs.

Elsonso

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Do you even craft, Bro?

It is a huge time sink. And don't even get me started on farming mats. You can either spend a huge amount of time (find nodes) or money (guild traders) in order to get the chance to refine some gold mats.
The customer should also know what they want as this is the easiest way to avoid disputes. Asking for advice between a couple of sets is ok, but a vague 'best DPS set' excludes you from making complaints. You have visited a crafter, build advice is a premium on top of crafting costs.

Yup. That's pretty much what I do in this game.

CaptainBeerDude

lordrichter wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Do you even craft, Bro?

It is a huge time sink. And don't even get me started on farming mats. You can either spend a huge amount of time (find nodes) or money (guild traders) in order to get the chance to refine some gold mats.
The customer should also know what they want as this is the easiest way to avoid disputes. Asking for advice between a couple of sets is ok, but a vague 'best DPS set' excludes you from making complaints. You have visited a crafter, build advice is a premium on top of crafting costs.

Yup. That's pretty much what I do in this game.

Fair enough. If your game is making stuff, more power to you. I would rather be doing other activities.

Dromede

I only make stuff for my friends. I'm a jewelry maker IRL, and I have enough trouble with upfront/late payments, shipping expenses and supplies in real life. No need to extend that onto the game
I became a master crafter to be self-sufficient, and to occasionally help out friends. I also do it free of charge, but it's usually common curtesy that they cover some portion of the cost .

Pandorii

Dromede wrote: »

I only make stuff for my friends. I'm a jewelry maker IRL, and I have enough trouble with upfront/late payments, shipping expenses and supplies in real life. No need to extend that onto the game
I became a master crafter to be self-sufficient, and to occasionally help out friends. I also do it free of charge, but it's usually common curtesy that they cover some portion of the cost .

Interesting. Guess it works like that IRL too.

Greiver

Unless it's a guild mate I run with or a friend, I don't bother. Not worth my time. Most the time they have no clue what they want or have half the mats and expect me to make up for the rest.

Epona222

Greiver wrote: »

Unless it's a guild mate I run with or a friend, I don't bother. Not worth my time. Most the time they have no clue what they want or have half the mats and expect me to make up for the rest.

I gave up crafting for people who aren't already friends of mine after I agreed to craft for someone who didn't know what they wanted - I have multiple characters, but I don't know every build, I don't do every activity, so someone coming along who doesn't know their OWN build but expecting me to somehow sort it out for them, do the research for them... no, I have better ways I would like to spend my time. It starts off slow with "well I think I want this set, but maybe this other set is better, what do you think?" and then escalates. So I no longer offer to do it in the first place. I'm not some sort of superhero build guru, and if someone needs that kind of advice, they're better off either asking people they do activities with regularly, or researching it themselves. I would be happy to craft if someone were to simply provide a list of exactly what they want, provide the mats or cover the cost of me buying them ("oh I'm a bit short of elegant lining, I've sent you all I have" does NOT impress).