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Incap Strike
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Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The same guy that got hit for 16 with an incapacitating strike, got hit by a 7200 ambush. His defenses were garbage. Realistically incapacitating strike is probably going to hit for 8-9k on average. Heavy hitters will hit around 12k.
Exactly. Plus it is still garbage in PvE in majority situations.
If its still garbage in PvE then no reason to buff it to a point its gonna break PvP~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel5 -
Praeficere✭✭✭✭There's a reason ZOS held off on making more physical ulties for so long
Only class that needed one was stam sorc, every other was fine. Stam can stack more damage so magic damage ults were fine.Though the shadow has moved not,
A thousand miles I’ve passed –
Ageless as the mountains but forgetting not the past.
Are you Resolute?
PC EU Progression Guild2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The same guy that got hit for 16 with an incapacitating strike, got hit by a 7200 ambush. His defenses were garbage. Realistically incapacitating strike is probably going to hit for 8-9k on average. Heavy hitters will hit around 12k.
lol. I guess its been a while since the last time you played a light amor build
Nope, my light armored sorc wears all impenetrable, and I have 87 points into hardy.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The same guy that got hit for 16 with an incapacitating strike, got hit by a 7200 ambush. His defenses were garbage. Realistically incapacitating strike is probably going to hit for 8-9k on average. Heavy hitters will hit around 12k.
Exactly. Plus it is still garbage in PvE in majority situations.
If its still garbage in PvE then no reason to buff it to a point its gonna break PvP
If it breaks PvP for you really need to change your style now. I one shotted somebody with assassin's scourge in PTS.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭To be fair, overload is hitting me for much more than Soul Harvest/Incap - and the worst part is that the burst is not over after that Overload hits you once.
Now, this is usually no problem in 1v1, but when you're fighting other people and there are sorcs with 20k shield throwing overloads at you... well, I'd much rather take several incaps or soul harvests at that point.
I don't know why they made Incap to stun at any % range though, it seemed more balanced before.
Now it basicly rewards Xv1 gankers more, as they can always stun you with it.Edited by DDuke on April 27, 2016 12:19PM4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
So you're saying something is balanced just because there is another skill that deals same damage, with ignoring all the other factors. Great way of thinking regarding the balance of an MMO m8. I hope its not the way ZOS developers think when they balance the game...Compared to overload which is hitting for similar damage yet can be used multiple times over and over for even less ult cost, incap does not seem all that special to me.
Lol if you cant counter overload its a l2p issue. The first overload requires 2 gcd so you have all the time you want to cloak, reflect dodge shield or block it
All I said was that the damage overload does is similar to the damage of incap, the cost is lower, and the former can be used multiple times in a row.
How on earth you arrived at the conclusion that the above means i can't counter overload is beyond me.
Well if you´re comparing the easiest ultimate to counter to something that´s virtually unavoidable you´re either bad at countering the former or on some kind of agenda.
Either way your argumentation does not make sense - hence he assumes you can´t properly counter overload instead of assuming you have personal interest in derailing the argument with illogical comparisons.
The thread is not about what is avoidable and what isn't, it is about about how much damage it does, and how low the cost is(check the OP).
Thus, that is what i am comparing.
Which of the two is easier to avoid is an entirely different debate.
No its not an entire differente debate, if you want to look at balance between two skills you need to take into account all the factors, their damage, their cost sure but also how they work, are they predictable or not, their counters etcetc
The OP is NOT about the balance between two skills! It is a whine about how much DAMAGE incap does and how CHEAP it is. Thus, me pointing out that DAMAGE and COST of incap is nothing special, because there are other ultimates that are doing even more damage while being even cheaper. End of story.
If you want to do a complete comparison between the two ultimate, THAT is a completely different topic. One that has to account for far more than just "you can't reflect incap!". For example the fact that incap cannot be cast repeatedly from 28m away while hiding behind a friendly zerg.4 -
EsoRecon✭✭✭✭✭Seriously this ability is extremely overpowered. It is making stamina nightblade over the top again. Does way too much damage.Oh and worst of all it is the lowest costing ulti in the game. I'm fine with the knock down change but come on with this damage change. What were you thinking zos?
No I like the change
Xbox One [ NA ]
Gamertag - Zyzz II Legacy
Stam Sorc & Stam NB PvP
(I'm Just Here To 1vX)3 -
EsoRecon✭✭✭✭✭Finally my ulti does physical damage when im a stam class.Xbox One [ NA ]
Gamertag - Zyzz II Legacy
Stam Sorc & Stam NB PvP
(I'm Just Here To 1vX)6 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The same guy that got hit for 16 with an incapacitating strike, got hit by a 7200 ambush. His defenses were garbage. Realistically incapacitating strike is probably going to hit for 8-9k on average. Heavy hitters will hit around 12k.
Exactly. Plus it is still garbage in PvE in majority situations.
If its still garbage in PvE then no reason to buff it to a point its gonna break PvP
If it breaks PvP for you really need to change your style now. I one shotted somebody with assassin's scourge in PTS.
Assassins scourge is a projectile with a cast time and you can predict when someone got it ready. Ambush+incap has none of those defaults. Yes its gonna break PvP when you get instakilled all of the sudden and you couldnt predict/counter it anyhow.~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel4 -
EsoRecon✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The same guy that got hit for 16 with an incapacitating strike, got hit by a 7200 ambush. His defenses were garbage. Realistically incapacitating strike is probably going to hit for 8-9k on average. Heavy hitters will hit around 12k.
Exactly. Plus it is still garbage in PvE in majority situations.
If its still garbage in PvE then no reason to buff it to a point its gonna break PvP
If it breaks PvP for you really need to change your style now. I one shotted somebody with assassin's scourge in PTS.
Assassins scourge is a projectile with a cast time and you can predict when someone got it ready. Ambush+incap has none of those defaults. Yes its gonna break PvP when you get instakilled all of the sudden and you couldnt predict/counter it anyhow.
hmm sounds familiar to something that happened during the Thieves Guild patch.. but it was magic. I wonder what it was?
Xbox One [ NA ]
Gamertag - Zyzz II Legacy
Stam Sorc & Stam NB PvP
(I'm Just Here To 1vX)2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The same guy that got hit for 16 with an incapacitating strike, got hit by a 7200 ambush. His defenses were garbage. Realistically incapacitating strike is probably going to hit for 8-9k on average. Heavy hitters will hit around 12k.
Exactly. Plus it is still garbage in PvE in majority situations.
If its still garbage in PvE then no reason to buff it to a point its gonna break PvP
If it breaks PvP for you really need to change your style now. I one shotted somebody with assassin's scourge in PTS.
Assassins scourge is a projectile with a cast time and you can predict when someone got it ready. Ambush+incap has none of those defaults. Yes its gonna break PvP when you get instakilled all of the sudden and you couldnt predict/counter it anyhow.
Well, even without it I currently gank down people pretty easily with SA+camo.0 -
Ballzy321✭✭✭It cost 50 though he almost gets that back with a kill and a potion use. Bring the cost to a 100 and it'll be fine1
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Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Who cares about what the OP says exactly, the point of the thread is to point out that incap needs a nerf, and that include all the other advantages. If for you an instant and unpredictable 50ult cost ult hitting for 15k+ with minor+major defile, a stun and 20% damage boost on the next attacks that easily synergies with other hard hitting abilities is not OP then I dont know what to tell you.
So you're saying something is balanced just because there is another skill that deals same damage, with ignoring all the other factors. Great way of thinking regarding the balance of an MMO m8. I hope its not the way ZOS developers think when they balance the game...Compared to overload which is hitting for similar damage yet can be used multiple times over and over for even less ult cost, incap does not seem all that special to me.
Lol if you cant counter overload its a l2p issue. The first overload requires 2 gcd so you have all the time you want to cloak, reflect dodge shield or block it
All I said was that the damage overload does is similar to the damage of incap, the cost is lower, and the former can be used multiple times in a row.
How on earth you arrived at the conclusion that the above means i can't counter overload is beyond me.
Well if you´re comparing the easiest ultimate to counter to something that´s virtually unavoidable you´re either bad at countering the former or on some kind of agenda.
Either way your argumentation does not make sense - hence he assumes you can´t properly counter overload instead of assuming you have personal interest in derailing the argument with illogical comparisons.
The thread is not about what is avoidable and what isn't, it is about about how much damage it does, and how low the cost is(check the OP).
Thus, that is what i am comparing.
Which of the two is easier to avoid is an entirely different debate.
No its not an entire differente debate, if you want to look at balance between two skills you need to take into account all the factors, their damage, their cost sure but also how they work, are they predictable or not, their counters etcetc
The OP is NOT about the balance between two skills! It is a whine about how much DAMAGE incap does and how CHEAP it is. Thus, me pointing out that DAMAGE and COST of incap is nothing special, because there are other ultimates that are doing even more damage while being even cheaper. End of story.
If you want to do a complete comparison between the two ultimate, THAT is a completely different topic. One that has to account for far more than just "you can't reflect incap!". For example the fact that incap cannot be cast repeatedly from 28m away while hiding behind a friendly zerg.
You started to compare it with overload, you also have to take into account the slow travel time of overload (=easy to react), and that you cant really combine it with anything. Also its just pure damage. I'm not saying overload is fine or not,I hate this skill but 1)its not the first point of this thread 2) ots not as gamebreaking/OP as incap.
~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel4 -
EsoRecon✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
^Xbox One [ NA ]
Gamertag - Zyzz II Legacy
Stam Sorc & Stam NB PvP
(I'm Just Here To 1vX)1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Who cares about what the OP says exactly
So you're saying something is balanced just because there is another skill that deals same damage, with ignoring all the other factors. Great way of thinking regarding the balance of an MMO m8. I hope its not the way ZOS developers think when they balance the game...Compared to overload which is hitting for similar damage yet can be used multiple times over and over for even less ult cost, incap does not seem all that special to me.
Lol if you cant counter overload its a l2p issue. The first overload requires 2 gcd so you have all the time you want to cloak, reflect dodge shield or block it
All I said was that the damage overload does is similar to the damage of incap, the cost is lower, and the former can be used multiple times in a row.
How on earth you arrived at the conclusion that the above means i can't counter overload is beyond me.
Well if you´re comparing the easiest ultimate to counter to something that´s virtually unavoidable you´re either bad at countering the former or on some kind of agenda.
Either way your argumentation does not make sense - hence he assumes you can´t properly counter overload instead of assuming you have personal interest in derailing the argument with illogical comparisons.
The thread is not about what is avoidable and what isn't, it is about about how much damage it does, and how low the cost is(check the OP).
Thus, that is what i am comparing.
Which of the two is easier to avoid is an entirely different debate.
No its not an entire differente debate, if you want to look at balance between two skills you need to take into account all the factors, their damage, their cost sure but also how they work, are they predictable or not, their counters etcetc
The OP is NOT about the balance between two skills! It is a whine about how much DAMAGE incap does and how CHEAP it is. Thus, me pointing out that DAMAGE and COST of incap is nothing special, because there are other ultimates that are doing even more damage while being even cheaper. End of story.
If you want to do a complete comparison between the two ultimate, THAT is a completely different topic. One that has to account for far more than just "you can't reflect incap!". For example the fact that incap cannot be cast repeatedly from 28m away while hiding behind a friendly zerg.
I care. That's what i do when i am responding to someone - care about what exactly he wrote.
Your mileage may vary.
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manny254✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think the problem is that the skill does too much for one global cool down.
This is in a similar vein to why they changed wrecking blow. The issue I have had when fighting people is that when it is used I probably have one global cool down to react after the cc break. Do I purge the negative effects or heal? There really is no correct answer, and you are forced to die. I would imagine it is even worse for classes without a purge.- Mojican4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think the problem is that the skill does too much for one global cool down.
This is in a similar vein to why they changed wrecking blow. The issue I have had when fighting people is that when it is used I probably have one global cool down to react after the cc break. Do I purge the negative effects or heal? There really is no correct answer, and you are forced to die. I would imagine it is even worse for classes without a purge.
Agreed, the stun seems a bit excessive
How about Incap stealthing you for a few seconds instead after it lands? Now that'd be awesome
It'd also boost the skill's viability in PvE (since it increases the next attack's dmg by a little).Edited by DDuke on April 27, 2016 1:06PM2 -
EsoRecon✭✭✭✭✭I think the problem is that the skill does too much for one global cool down.
This is in a similar vein to why they changed wrecking blow. The issue I have had when fighting people is that when it is used I probably have one global cool down to react after the cc break. Do I purge the negative effects or heal? There really is no correct answer, and you are forced to die. I would imagine it is even worse for classes without a purge.
Agreed, the stun seems a bit excessive
How about Incap stealthing you for a few seconds instead after it lands? Now that'd be awesome
It'd also boost the skill's viability in PvE (since it increases the next attack's dmg by a little).
That does sound awesomeXbox One [ NA ]
Gamertag - Zyzz II Legacy
Stam Sorc & Stam NB PvP
(I'm Just Here To 1vX)2 -
willymchilybily✭✭✭✭16k seems reasonable? Are you out of your mind? for an ability that costs 50 ultimate???? come on dude....and its a heal defile. Just leave lmao that is far from reasonable
his ambush hit for 7.6k i propose the damage seems reasonable when compared to how hard that ambush hit, one was stealth buffed (if Khajit/bosmar NB especially) the other empowered buff. both hit stupid values likely due to target having low resistances, and perpetrator being highly buffed.
I do think the double buff to that morph (in terms of damage scaling with CP and guranteed CC) was a bit heavy handed. just the change to its damage type would be enough for many in PvP to go with it instead of soul harvest.
And even then i expect many prefer having the soul harvest morph because in PvP with the other alliance war passives you kill one guy with soul harvest and its back, and still hits as hard as an insta-cast wrecking blow. grants empowering and debuffs healing. Why would i care for more damage when i can use soul harvest in my burst and kill stuff stupidly quickly anyway and have it up every engagement?
Edited by willymchilybily on April 27, 2016 1:13PMPSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7203 -
Xael✭✭✭✭✭To be fair, overload is hitting me for much more than Soul Harvest/Incap - and the worst part is that the burst is not over after that Overload hits you once.
Now, this is usually no problem in 1v1, but when you're fighting other people and there are sorcs with 20k shield throwing overloads at you... well, I'd much rather take several incaps or soul harvests at that point.
I don't know why they made Incap to stun at any % range though, it seemed more balanced before.
Now it basicly rewards Xv1 gankers more, as they can always stun you with it.
Welcome back brother.
Like every PTS, people can't resist the chance to whine about Nightblades. The saddest thing is they always leave out history and or the other classes which do more or the same damage threshold. He is obviously crying from Stamplar standpoint which just got buffed to hell with Dawnbreaker. Not seeing anything about that, forgive me while I laugh at my 12k+14k+ tooltip of Dawnbreaker in Cyrodiil. Something I can weave and AC flawlessly (no pun) and melt ANYONE. But yes, lets focus on Nightblades. The only thing broken right now are Stam Sorcs which are absolute trash now.
Good to see you back on the forums, might want to bring a swimsuit, the tears are going to flood.I got killed in pvp, nerf everything...4 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Notice how all the complaining is about EMPOWERED strikes.
PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Roll dodging.
Seriously! Someone who has a buddy get Incap strike loaded up and have their buddy roll dodge out of the hit box. 80% of the time I use this skill it is going to get roll dodged out of the way. If you cannot roll out of harms way then there might be a problem. But if the roll COMPLETELY negates the strike, then it seems justified to me.
Someone science that please.Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on April 27, 2016 1:32PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭To be fair, overload is hitting me for much more than Soul Harvest/Incap - and the worst part is that the burst is not over after that Overload hits you once.
Now, this is usually no problem in 1v1, but when you're fighting other people and there are sorcs with 20k shield throwing overloads at you... well, I'd much rather take several incaps or soul harvests at that point.
I don't know why they made Incap to stun at any % range though, it seemed more balanced before.
Now it basicly rewards Xv1 gankers more, as they can always stun you with it.
Welcome back brother.
Like every PTS, people can't resist the chance to whine about Nightblades. The saddest thing is they always leave out history and or the other classes which do more or the same damage threshold. He is obviously crying from Stamplar standpoint which just got buffed to hell with Dawnbreaker. Not seeing anything about that, forgive me while I laugh at my 12k+14k+ tooltip of Dawnbreaker in Cyrodiil. Something I can weave and AC flawlessly (no pun) and melt ANYONE. But yes, lets focus on Nightblades. The only thing broken right now are Stam Sorcs which are absolute trash now.
Good to see you back on the forums, might want to bring a swimsuit, the tears are going to flood.
Hehe, nice to be back - this place hasn't changed one bit
To be honest, I can relate with the part of the argument about the skill doing a bit too much.
The damage is fine (as mentioned, other skills do the same) - but I can see the CC becoming extremely annoying (as in, not fun) in PvP when combined with that damage and a healing debuff.
Imagine you're doing some 1vX fighting multiple people - suddenly there's a very cheap cost ultimate that stuns you, takes a decent chunk of your health & applies a healing debuff on you.
It's less of a problem for builds that can kite enemies & avoid damage by roll dodging a lot, but I really don't want to get hit by that when playing on a magicka templar or magicka DK - it's pretty much a death sentence with the CC. It's a rare occasion when you wish there were still Wrecking Blows around to get CC immunity from
I'd rather see them replace the CC with a DoT, or making it stealth you for a few seconds like I wrote above :PEdited by DDuke on April 27, 2016 1:41PM5 -
Goresnort✭✭✭Simple solution
Swap Soul Harvest to be the morph that does physical dmg
My pve stam blade supports this
My pvp mag blade also supports this
Edited by Goresnort on April 27, 2016 1:49PM0 -
Goresnort✭✭✭Sugaroverdose wrote: »
But but, my lovely magblade will have scaling damage with incap strike in pvp again
It's sooo nice yum yum 0
