Do you really think annulment changes mean buff to sorc's shield stacking?

Riggsy · April 2016

Surak73 wrote: »

Totally agree. And just think of the MA: all of your magicka pool will go in shields for the mere sake of surviving...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, imagine that, requiring skill and learning mechanics instead of simply spamming shields. Welcome to the grind stam builds have been stuck with. Sorcs dominated the MA leaderboards for a reason.

jim.chronous_ESO · April 2016

Oh my poor pets, now they will drop like flies. RIP

Aquanova · April 2016

I'm more concerned about the strength of my shields right now on the PTS vs live.

PTS Hardened ward: 13105. Same CP, stats and gear as live.
Live Hardened ward: 15008.

PTS Dampen Magic: 12374.
Live Dampen Magic: 14170.

I appear to be losing 3699 shielding. What happened?

I'm also seeing discrepancies on alot of other skills.

These are the tool tip numbers btw.

itscompton · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Op you seem to be considering the nerf with respect to PvE content yes? If you are running shields for PvE you are doing it wrong. Dont need no shields. Just get 16.8k health (unless you are running maw) and its more than enough to burn through any content as long as you know the fight or do enough DPS such that it dosent matter.

For PvP, dosent really matter. I apply harness waaaaaay more often than 1 in 6 seconds against 99% of the people i fight against. Its basically 1 hit > reapply >1 hit > reapply. A single WB/frag etc drains hardened ward lol.

Then either your ward is super weak or you don't stack like some do, I've hit people with three dark flares in a row for 7500 a piece that were all absorbed without the other player recasting.

UnBelievaBill · April 2016

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

How about not going around with 12k healt and 45k magika but instead have a normal pool of 16-20k and avoid some damage?
Maybe sorcerers now will learn to avoid the Red circles instead of spamming shields.

This 1000%. Learn to dodge, stay out of melee range combat, play with a healer, etc. Every class should have their limitations... Shield stacking sorcs hat can tank hel ra, kena, skoria etc is ridiculous...

Magdalina · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

It was never okay imo for ward to let mag sorcs bypass survivability issues. This just brings all these classes in line. Sorcs need a slight DPS boost to compensate for the *** DPS outside of overload if anything, but that's all. They still pull top dog DPS during overload. With a full 1000 ult bar pre-charged you have enough to burst down every pledge boss and have still some left over to spare. Their shortcomings only really show in trials where sustained DPS>>burst DPS.

It's already possible for NBs and templars(I'm not sure about DKs; I know I have run into NBs and templars who can do that though) to outdps Overload. That without having to rely on an ultimate that literally bugs out every third attack or have to save every ultimate point and pretty much never use ultimates on trash in order to save it for boss fights. Sorcs no longer have highest burst dps going for them and now we won't have surviveability going for us either. That actually will put us like last in terms of surviveability probably - templars have sweeps with absolutely OP selfheal on top of damage, I'm not even gonna talk about NB offheals, DKs get Battle Roar, on top of all of that they will all now have a shield equal to sorc's Ward but...what will sorcs have?

Beardimus · April 2016

Lots of good points here, I concur on the point about PvE v PvP. Something had to change in PvP to stop the moaning, but it is a frustrating change for PvE as the shields did last, means more clunky bar swapping etc. Hey we'll overcome but I guess I can see both sides to the debate.

ku5h · April 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.

Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.

Why would i ever use shields in vet dungeon? If you have 18k+ hp and decent group, you will never need that shield. I much rather slot bound armor for 5%extra magica. If you want to do top dps you can't have shields on your bar, period...

p.s. If all sorc you play with run shields, then you must be running only with pugs. Just check top sorc PvE builds, and i bet you you will never see any of them using shields, not that i care about them, just saying.

Magdalina · April 2016

ku5h wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.

Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.

Why would i ever use shields in vet dungeon? If you have 18k+ hp and decent group, you will never need that shield. I much rather slot bound armor for 5%extra magica. If you want to do top dps you can't have shields on your bar, period...

p.s. If all sorc you play with run shields, then you must be running only with pugs. Just check top sorc PvE builds, and i bet you you will never see any of them using shields, not that i care about them, just saying.

Or you can run with shields and never need heals, allowing your healer to pull full dps

Birdovic · April 2016

UnBelievaBill wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

How about not going around with 12k healt and 45k magika but instead have a normal pool of 16-20k and avoid some damage?
Maybe sorcerers now will learn to avoid the Red circles instead of spamming shields.

This 1000%. Learn to dodge, stay out of melee range combat, play with a healer, etc. Every class should have their limitations... Shield stacking sorcs hat can tank hel ra, kena, skoria etc is ridiculous...

Avoiding Damage is done wherever possible, nobody (except new players until they know better) will stand in the stupid and spam a shield instead of doing damage.

Also you should read again why I said going for low health but max magicka is the way to go for a long long time now.

Concerning Dodge(PvP POV): You can dodge 2 times, with tri-stat buff food 3 times in PvP. Afterwards you lie there and wait for Death. So now you know, why Shields are not a big problem as people make it sound, just cc and drain a Sorc his Stamina 2-3 times and hes done.

As NB as example, all it takes is a heavy hitting Attack out of stealth, which takes off existing shields and puts you on maybe 70% health left, then you break free -> get instantly feared, try breaking free and have almost no stamina left + no shield up at this time.

Greenwood1900 · April 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Why do I need that massive dmg shields combination (harness+hardened ward) if it lasts so short that it might not be fully consumed during the battle? I see that players who don't play sorc are very glad for the reduction of the duration of shields. But I think it's only from PvP perspective (sorcs will be much easier to kill which is obvious). But such non-sorc players don't think that, when PvEing, sorcs (DD ones) will be doing much less damage cause all their magicka will be used for reapplying the shields (just to be able to survive) and the damage will be done exclusively by staves and only from time to time between casting shields (and even with less choice of offensive abilities cause shields will have to be put into main bar). Sorcs won't have any reliable defence and will be fragile as funk. As a result, it will affect all 4-man groups while doing the group dungeons because it will just reduce the damage done by the group overall, the duration of dungeon runs and their overall difficulty. Don't blame sorcs then that they won't be doing much damage... I don't PvP much so it doesn't bother me from that perspective. I mainly PvE and as such, taking into account how much time I have put into my only char which is magicka sorc, there will be really no pleasure for me to play anymore and most likely I'll quit.
I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...

Not want to be rude, just going to give you direct opinions.

Good Sorcerers do not use shields in group dungeons. They rely in healer and self-heal if they have any. Also you can still using Hardened Ward in critical situations for massive damage protection. Or stack it with Annulment for legendary massive damage protection.

In PvP we will see more stacking than before. I think that all these changes don't leave many options for Sorcerers other than go shield stacking. And stamina users will have to use Shield Breaker.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

I run a shield in dungeons because majority of the time I don't run with a healer or I PUG a healer that I can't always rely on. A lot of the healers I PUG in random dungeons are not good at keeping people alive. I'll only do a dungeon without a shield is if I know 100% the healer is good and competent at keeping me alive. That shouldn't make me a bad player, it just means I am careful and am self sustaining without the use of a healer.

DDemon · April 2016

The biggest impact this will have for sorcerers is PVE. Many people have already stated, for pvp you reapply the shield every couple of seconds anyway. Which is odd, as the change was supposed to nerf sorcs in pvp. Only thing you notice in pvp is, that you can't keep the shield up outside of combat non stop, in combat, again, no change for sorc.

So in short, this nerf is hardly noticeable for the PVP sorc, but will impact many instances in PVE, mainly the solo instances.

raasdal · April 2016

Yes, it is a definite buff in PvP, but a Nerf for PvE. In PvE a Sorc wants to have that Hardened Ward to protect against one-shots. Having to re-apply the shield every 6 seconds instead of every 20 seconds will mean a huge nerf to DPS.

For PvP, anyone who has played a Sorc knows that when the battle is really going, you are always applying that shield every 6 seconds anyway, unless you are fighting someone who has no idea what he is doing.

This applies not only to Sorcs, but for other classes as well. On my Mag DK, i went away from Healing Ward because after rewieving a couple of fights, i could see that LESS than 10% of my Healing Wards actually made it through the 5-6 seconds. They got ripped off by damage before that. So in that case, due to my health/magicka ratio, Igneous was a better option for shielding since it provided larger shield, but no heal after expiration.

So with Harness giving Physical cover now, my Sorc will be stacking Hardened and Harness lige a maniac. Before, i would actually only stack Hardened+Healing exactly because Harness only protected against magic damage, and i did not want to waste a slot for those only - nor have to "think" that much about what shield to apply at what times.

The ONLY reason this could be a nerf, is that it might make it easier to CC sorcs out of their shields. Meaning you CC a sorc, he breaks and shields away. With 6 second duration, it is very likely that a well timed CC will catch the Sorc out of shield, and he will be an easy target.

Greenwood1900 · April 2016

MidnightBlue wrote: »

I run a shield in dungeons because majority of the time I don't run with a healer or I PUG a healer that I can't always rely on. A lot of the healers I PUG in random dungeons are not good at keeping people alive. I'll only do a dungeon without a shield is if I know 100% the healer is good and competent at keeping me alive. That shouldn't make me a bad player, it just means I am careful and am self sustaining without the use of a healer.

The work of a healer is keeping you alive, but I don't like how you say it. I mean the healer can be bad, but if you stand on the red, don't roll dodge/block (or streak) when needed, don't throw some healing on top of healer's one too...

You can still using shields to prevent damage in certain situations.

Massive_Stain · April 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.

Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.

Sorry buddy. It is a l2p issue. What do you need 30sec of shield for anyway? One smack from kena will dissolve it

I shield stack, but most dd in dungeons dont wear light armor either, am I right? I've cleared every goup dungeon while shield stacking too btw and I've l2p quite nicely. Also, lots of times, I'm the last one standing because of it.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

Greenwood1900 wrote: »

MidnightBlue wrote: »

I run a shield in dungeons because majority of the time I don't run with a healer or I PUG a healer that I can't always rely on. A lot of the healers I PUG in random dungeons are not good at keeping people alive. I'll only do a dungeon without a shield is if I know 100% the healer is good and competent at keeping me alive. That shouldn't make me a bad player, it just means I am careful and am self sustaining without the use of a healer.

The work of a healer is keeping you alive, but I don't like how you say it. I mean the healer can be bad, but if you stand on the red, don't roll dodge/block (or streak) when needed, don't throw some healing on top of healer's one too...

You can still using shields to prevent damage in certain situations.

I obviously do my best to stand out of red even when I use my shield, but I can't always dodge roll because of low stamina. I dodge roll sometimes, but I conserve my stamina. I don't use streak in pve, I use destro and dual wield. It does not help that I have around 16k health because my Undaunted is not 9 yet. I don't even use self heals aside from Power Surge. Hardened Ward, Boundless Storm, Bound Aegis, and Power Surge are my defenses/heals instead of Healing Ward. Nothing is worse than someone giving me crap if I die (because sh*t happens), "Why did you die, you're a Sorc, why didn't you use your shield?"

Stamblade was my main for the longest and I didn't start playing a sorc until that Cake event week so I was happy fo finally play a class where I can use a shield. I was tired of doing dungeons as a stamblade with little defense. Another reason why I use my shield. Cloak isn't useful in pve. I used to use Shuffle or Double take, but I took that off to slot Siphoning Attacks.

jzholloway · April 2016

Wait.. sorcs won't be all powerful and might actually need a healer and/or tank? Holy *** it's the end of the game!

Tyrion87 · April 2016

ku5h wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.

Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.

Why would i ever use shields in vet dungeon? If you have 18k+ hp and decent group, you will never need that shield. I much rather slot bound armor for 5%extra magica. If you want to do top dps you can't have shields on your bar, period...

p.s. If all sorc you play with run shields, then you must be running only with pugs. Just check top sorc PvE builds, and i bet you you will never see any of them using shields, not that i care about them, just saying.

Reading that the dmg shield is unnecessary for a sorc in group dungeons I get an impression that many players who think so have never done any or are doing them only with the highest quality and the best in the world healers and tanks.

The reality is different though. If no one from my guilds/friends wants to do vWGT, I need to look for a party via the zone chat or the grouping tool (which is the last resort). In such case I don't know people and their skills. And in most of the cases I do the group dungeons this way. You also seem to forget that magicka sorcs are glass cannon by nature cause they are forced to use light armor (for the passives) which reduces their armor value/defence. They also usually don't have or have a small spell/physical resistance. And of course they have little stamina which obviously reduces the possibility to dodge/block/roll many times. It's very noticeable during the kena's fight. Even if I invest into health and increase it even to 20k, I can be burnt down easily by kena without a shield, especially when the tank and healer are gone. In my opinion shields are the class-defining skills for sorcerers and they weren't given to sorcs without a reason. Each class has its own defensive skills, its own playstyle and use different ways/methods to avoid/reduce incoming damage.

Summing up, each player has the right to play as he wants, especially when the group decided to break away from the traditional approach to group roles, and decided to go for 3xDD and 1xhealer or 1xtank. The variety is fun. The funniest.

MidnightBlue · April 2016

I'm not particularly thrilled that they are reducing the duration of Ward, but I'll adapt to it. Like most people said you lose your shield way faster than 20s when in battle causing you to reapply every few seconds. 10s would be fair, but if they make it 6, then they make it 6. I end up reapplying it fairly quickly anyway.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

olsborg wrote: »

The light armor shields should not protect against all types of dmg, shields in pvp is already making the gameplay toxic, they shouldnt give more ppl these kinda shields. 6 second on conjured ward seems too short tho, should atleast be 10-12 secs.

this change to light armor shields is actually a change back, they used to do this originally, unitl zos made the wise decision to remove physical, now though?

i just wish they would leave conjured ward alone, the other changes, including shields, i can compensate for, but conjured ward changes torches nearly every build i have

Greenwood1900 · April 2016

DDs are glass canon by nature, not Sorcerers.

Stamina NB doesn't have little defense when it comes to group dungeons.

Apherius · April 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Why do I need that massive dmg shields combination (harness+hardened ward) if it lasts so short that it might not be fully consumed during the battle? I see that players who don't play sorc are very glad for the reduction of the duration of shields. But I think it's only from PvP perspective (sorcs will be much easier to kill which is obvious). But such non-sorc players don't think that, when PvEing, sorcs (DD ones) will be doing much less damage cause all their magicka will be used for reapplying the shields (just to be able to survive) and the damage will be done exclusively by staves and only from time to time between casting shields (and even with less choice of offensive abilities cause shields will have to be put into main bar). Sorcs won't have any reliable defence and will be fragile as funk. As a result, it will affect all 4-man groups while doing the group dungeons because it will just reduce the damage done by the group overall, the duration of dungeon runs and their overall difficulty. Don't blame sorcs then that they won't be doing much damage... I don't PvP much so it doesn't bother me from that perspective. I mainly PvE and as such, taking into account how much time I have put into my only char which is magicka sorc, there will be really no pleasure for me to play anymore and most likely I'll quit.
I have no words for ZOS how many incompetent employees you hire who make decisions regarding balance changes. There wasn't, there isn't and apparently there will be no balance in this game at all. Each time you buff one class, the other becomes useless and ruined. I get an impression that people who had created this game are not the same people who are maintaining it now...

they nerf shields for PVP ... why did they not apply they nerf ONLY when we enter on cyrodiil ?! ( a cyrodiil passif , for exemple ) .
... they're are incompentent because they want balance the game , but when they balance the PVP , they imbalance the PVE !!!

" there will be really no pleasure for me to play anymore and most likely I'll quit." same . a big thank's to zenimax

Birdovic · April 2016

Well best idea is to include Hardened Ward in the Battle Spirit buff.
For PvP, make it last 8 seconds and in PvE make it last 12 seconds.
Battle Spirit can be the solution to many problems, but meh...

Apherius · April 2016

Riggsy wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Totally agree. And just think of the MA: all of your magicka pool will go in shields for the mere sake of surviving...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, imagine that, requiring skill and learning mechanics instead of simply spamming shields. Welcome to the grind stam builds have been stuck with. Sorcs dominated the MA leaderboards for a reason.

we dominate only MA ... templar dominate DSA ... Dk dominate MOJ .... Stam dominate Cyrodiil ... we are a very good class for solo , but now we are bad in cyrodiil , bad in pve , bad in MA , bad in raid's ....

Apherius · April 2016

jzholloway wrote: »

Wait.. sorcs won't be all powerful and might actually need a healer and/or tank? Holy *** it's the end of the game!

NB don't need a heal . we sorc ... we need aheal and a tank ,man . You not play sorc exactly ? so you can say nothing .

sirrmattus · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Against anyone competent those shields are down in 6 seconds anyway.

Shield stacking got buffed.

I disagree. This is not an argument justifying the reduction of the dmg shields duration. My shields last longer, even in boss fights in veteran group dungeons. Unless I cast it while being exposed to huge damage when e.g. the tank is down.

Oh no, this argument doesn't justify this decision.
This argument leads us to the question of what, exactly, did ZOS want to achieve with this change? People were crying about shield stacking...now it will have potential to be WORSE. Sorcerers wanted some versatility and more unique and useful class skills(especially for PvE where Mines and Streak and Curse are all but useless 99% of time)...now our pretty much class defining PvE skill is pretty much available to everyone with Annulment change. Who exactly is going to profit from this?

sirrmattus wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

If you'r using shields in vet dungeons or trials, then you'r doing something wrong. For solo PvE its different, but in group play you need to rely on your healer to keep you alive. If he cant do that then 1 of you need to L2P.

Of course I use dmg shields in vet group dungeons and I've never seen a DD sorc who would not have been using it, relying only on a healer. Any l2p issue is not a case here.

Sorry buddy. It is a l2p issue. What do you need 30sec of shield for anyway? One smack from kena will dissolve it

*20 sec shield. I personally want a 20 seconds shield for my pet, the one with 10k health and the only non-resto staff heal I have. I also want it for faster and easier runs, I run with <16k health half of the time and no fulltime healer. Granted I can invest some points in to health but...why? This is the good thing about sorc - you're able to run low health yet be able to survive through a lot. You don't have any reliable self heals or group buffs or utility(except maybe Encase but what sorc dd really runs it...), even your dps is kinda meh but at least you have that going for you. With this change...what is it sorcs have, PvE wise, that'd make anyone think "oh yes, I want to pick this class, this thing they can do is just so cool!"?

This was imbalance. Now sorc is not an overpowered beast

sirrmattus · April 2016

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Not sure why you wouldn't use hardened Ward on yourself in dungeons, I've single handedly brought entire groups back bc of that shield.

Not sure it's a dps loss either, it procs frags and is shorter than a roll Dodge animation. It saves time the healer could be using to dps as well. Sorcs don't have outstanding pve dps with out overload anyway.

u can still use ward in the same way. now you just have to think about when to use it

sirrmattus · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

You know there is another thread on the front page where everybody claims that dungeons are too easy. That you can just run 4 sorcs and burn everything down. Perhaps this is as much a means of balancing PvE as much as PvP. Just a thought...

So...now you're going to have to run 4 templars and Sweep everything down instead? By the way, it's already much easier with templar than a sorc. You just cast Channeled Focus, turn yourself in the direction of the mobs, close your eyes(optionally) and spam Sweeps. When you stop hearing combat sounds you open your eyes and chances are everything is dead. Unless something oneshots you of course but they're nerfing the only 3 dungeons where this still happens so...

LMAO. this dude must not play templar

sirrmattus · April 2016

Apherius wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

Wait.. sorcs won't be all powerful and might actually need a healer and/or tank? Holy *** it's the end of the game!

NB don't need a heal . we sorc ... we need aheal and a tank ,man . You not play sorc exactly ? so you can say nothing .

LMAO. power surge, wards, cc's, hi burst ultimate. sorc is still most powerful;