Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair
-
Svalinn✭✭✭wyhat surprises me is that this post is still going.. perhaps you should play more and debate less ^^3 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5013 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »
Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard
You could not buy the 10% extra gold.
You could not buy the 10% faster research times.
You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.
So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.
The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.
I didn't think we were arguing points prior to ESO:TU.
You can't throw out that line without clarification. Where in his post did he allude to anything pre-ESO:TU?
When he started listing the perks for ESO+. You can see in my follow up posts I explain that line quite clearly, those perks were decided upon prior to crown store launching even if they did launch at the same time.
Ok let's follow your rules - if they're not allowed to add a new item to subscriber benefits then they're not allowed to add a new item to b2p benefits.
How will ZOS make money now
3 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Oh, I won't argue that it's not shady. It totally is, but that's business. But this thread isn't about whether baiting people into paying more money is shady, it's about it being unfair that the bags aren't a purchasable option in the crown store. That's completely unrelated.
Let me explain this a slightly different way using this comparison. When they changed the payment model to B2P and made subscriptions optional:
Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard
You could not buy the 10% extra gold.
You could not buy the 10% faster research times.
You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.
So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.
The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.
1. ZOS did not reduce the amount of gold dropped by mobs.
2. ZOS did not increase research times.
3. ZOS did not reduce XP gains.
Here is what they did do: They started introducing large quantities of new crafting materials with every update, without increasing the maximum amount of bank space available for purchase. They did increase bag space for individual characters, which was helpful. But not account wide bank space (upgrades for which can be purchased for crowns, up to a maximum cap).
The only way to solve an inventory management problem that was intentionally created by the company to inconvenience people is to purchase a subscription. It is the only subscription bonus that was created specifically by doing something to intentionally inconvenience players. And that is distasteful.
As far your point goes, the crown store has had its fair share of shady things too. Every update release new motifs that have to be assembled from 14 pages, which range in difficulty to acquire. Then, a few months later, these full motifs appear on the crown store for real money. How is that not the same thing? Put stuff into the game that people want, make it hard to nearly impossible to get quickly, and then give people a fast and easy solution to get it with real money.
But again, that has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
{Edited for teh grammarz.}Edited by Divinius on April 26, 2016 5:51PM3 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »
Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard
You could not buy the 10% extra gold.
You could not buy the 10% faster research times.
You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.
So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.
The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.
I didn't think we were arguing points prior to ESO:TU.
You can't throw out that line without clarification. Where in his post did he allude to anything pre-ESO:TU?
When he started listing the perks for ESO+. You can see in my follow up posts I explain that line quite clearly, those perks were decided upon prior to crown store launching even if they did launch at the same time.
Ok let's follow your rules - if they're not allowed to add a new item to subscriber benefits then they're not allowed to add a new item to b2p benefits.
How will ZOS make money now
just remove the whole ESO Plus sub.
move the benefits to anyone who buys crowns...
1500 - 30 days
2500 - more than 30
500 - less than 30
Its that simple....when ZOS removed the sub...they need to learn how to remove things.
You can still offer auto draft of crown packs but just like VR was suppose to be removed and its just renaming them to CP on an account basis...this practice is bad for business.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
Zyle✭✭✭✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »
Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard
You could not buy the 10% extra gold.
You could not buy the 10% faster research times.
You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.
So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.
The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.
I didn't think we were arguing points prior to ESO:TU.
You can't throw out that line without clarification. Where in his post did he allude to anything pre-ESO:TU?
When he started listing the perks for ESO+. You can see in my follow up posts I explain that line quite clearly, those perks were decided upon prior to crown store launching even if they did launch at the same time.
Ok let's follow your rules - if they're not allowed to add a new item to subscriber benefits then they're not allowed to add a new item to b2p benefits.
How will ZOS make money now
No one said they're not allowed to add a new item to sub benefits, we just want the option to have it without being forced into a subscription in a OPTIONAL subscription based game.
676 CP
Zyle - LVL50 Stamina Nightblade - Former Emp AS - VMA Clear (Flawless)
Joven - LVL50 Hybrid Templar
Adion - LVL50 Stamina DK
Radac - LVL50 Magicka Sorcerer
Vanikath - LVL50 Magicka DK2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
Simply put - they have figured out they will make more money renting the option by making people require a subscription to retain access to it, than they will by selling it outright.
Are you beginning to follow this yet?3 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nobody is being punished. Nobody is a victim.
You either sub and get the bag, or don't and you get no bag. It's really that simple.
Rich Lambert said that the bags are only for subscribers and it looks like it's going to stay that way.
It is a perk of giving money every month to keep the servers going, to maintenance, to develop new content - regular income that ZOS will get every month. A predictable amount of income for the company.
If you buy crowns etc that's great. You are also contributing to all this. But in a less routine way. There are, I am sure, people who buy the base game and then don't give another single penny. That's okay too. You bought the game.
Think of it as like gold membership to a club. A gold member will get more perks than say a silver member to sweeten the deal and keep them paying to be a gold member. If you want to be a gold member, then do as other gold members do.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!5 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
(Self-editing, I should not bait or bite the dangled bait)
Let me explain this a slightly different way using this comparison. When they changed the payment model to B2P and made subscriptions optional:
Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard
You could not buy the 10% extra gold.
You could not buy the 10% faster research times.
You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.
So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.
The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.
1. ZOS did not reduce the amount of gold dropped by mobs.
2. ZOS did not increase research times.
3. ZOS did not reduce XP gains.
Here is what they did do: They started introducing large quantities of new crafting materials with every update, without increasing the maximum amount of bank space available for purchase. They did increase bag space for individual characters, which was helpful. But not account wide bank space (upgrades for which can be purchased for crowns, up to a maximum cap).
The only way to solve an inventory management problem that was intentionally created by the company to inconvenience people is to purchase a subscription. It is the only subscription bonus that was created specifically by doing something to intentionally inconvenience players. And that is distasteful.
How did you decide what ZOS was thinking when they made the bags for Subbers? How can you know they did it to "intentionally inconvenience players"? What insider info did you get?
People make these judgmental statements when they have no idea other than their own personal assumptions.
And that is distasteful.
Also,it doesnt make people think you have an "in" on how ZOS thinks.
Many people requested increased bank storage space as additional items were introduced but the subscriber-only craft bag is the only thing being offered to resolve the inventory problem. This is very simple logic.Edited by Slurg on April 26, 2016 6:13PMHappy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.1 -
Zyle✭✭✭✭✭Nobody is being punished. Nobody is a victim.
You either sub and get the bag, or don't and you get no bag. It's really that simple.
Rich Lambert said that the bags are only for subscribers and it looks like it's going to stay that way.
It is a perk of giving money every month to keep the servers going, to maintenance, to develop new content - regular income that ZOS will get every month. A predictable amount of income for the company.
If you buy crowns etc that's great. You are also contributing to all this. But in a less routine way. There are, I am sure, people who buy the base game and then don't give another single penny. That's okay too. You bought the game.
Think of it as like gold membership to a club. A gold member will get more perks than say a silver member to sweeten the deal and keep them paying to be a gold member. If you want to be a gold member, then do as other gold members do.
By that logic we should at least have the option of buying an inferior crafting bag. If it's going to come down to a pure predictable income versus non-predictable income. Otherwise offering us no alternative is like saying we don't contribute.
676 CP
Zyle - LVL50 Stamina Nightblade - Former Emp AS - VMA Clear (Flawless)
Joven - LVL50 Hybrid Templar
Adion - LVL50 Stamina DK
Radac - LVL50 Magicka Sorcerer
Vanikath - LVL50 Magicka DK3 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭The other thing that keeps slipping by people is that perks gained from ESO+ are essentially rented. You lose them if you drop your sub. Granted, the crafting bags are pseudo-semi-permanent, but not being able to put new items into them if your sub drops is a huge inconvenience.
Adding a permanent option to the crown store would actually be more beneficial than what ESO+ subs get. I can't even think about what they'd have to price it at to be worth doing.
For everyone that wants these bags to be available in the crown store, would you pay 50,000 crowns? I doubt it.3 -
AllPlayAndNoWork✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
It is though or this wouldn't even be a debate.....0 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
Ah but it is an exclusive club. One any player can join for 14.99/mo. Joining/subscribing gets you certain exclusive perks. No different than any other club, magazine subscription, membership program. The real issue here, which has already been stated a thousand times, is that now there is a membership perk that the masses find really appealing. They want it, they want it their way, and they want it now. That's it. Sorry, I get it, the bag is gonna be great. Subscribe and enjoy, or don't and go without. The choice is still yours.8 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Nobody is being punished. Nobody is a victim.
You either sub and get the bag, or don't and you get no bag. It's really that simple.
Rich Lambert said that the bags are only for subscribers and it looks like it's going to stay that way.
It is a perk of giving money every month to keep the servers going, to maintenance, to develop new content - regular income that ZOS will get every month. A predictable amount of income for the company.
If you buy crowns etc that's great. You are also contributing to all this. But in a less routine way. There are, I am sure, people who buy the base game and then don't give another single penny. That's okay too. You bought the game.
Think of it as like gold membership to a club. A gold member will get more perks than say a silver member to sweeten the deal and keep them paying to be a gold member. If you want to be a gold member, then do as other gold members do.
Ok, I've spent more in 10 months through B2P than some have on a sub so I'll have the platinum clubcard please, I'll take the bag, all the mounts I don't already own and whatever else in the crownstore I don't already own along with full collectors versions of all future dlc
2 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
It is though or this wouldn't even be a debate.....
It's not an exclusive club. Anyone can get it.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!1 -
AllPlayAndNoWork✭✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Nobody is being punished. Nobody is a victim.
You either sub and get the bag, or don't and you get no bag. It's really that simple.
Rich Lambert said that the bags are only for subscribers and it looks like it's going to stay that way.
It is a perk of giving money every month to keep the servers going, to maintenance, to develop new content - regular income that ZOS will get every month. A predictable amount of income for the company.
If you buy crowns etc that's great. You are also contributing to all this. But in a less routine way. There are, I am sure, people who buy the base game and then don't give another single penny. That's okay too. You bought the game.
Think of it as like gold membership to a club. A gold member will get more perks than say a silver member to sweeten the deal and keep them paying to be a gold member. If you want to be a gold member, then do as other gold members do.
Ok, I've spent more in 10 months through B2P than some have on a sub so I'll have the platinum clubcard please, I'll take the bag, all the mounts I don't already own and whatever else in the crownstore I don't already own along with full collectors versions of all future dlc
Still not part of the club though eh ?!0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
Simply put - they have figured out they will make more money renting the option by making people require a subscription to retain access to it, than they will by selling it outright.
Are you beginning to follow this yet?
I'm following that in your understanding things should flow around this because of you assumption.
Factually, subscriptions aren't bringing them more profits. Lets keep this simple.
If in fact, that was the case, then PC would have a sub and PS4 would differ from PC maybe and Xbox One would be buy2P.
We also know that a subscription is a min of $15/month and some subscribers buy in bulk on PC cause its cheaper. On console we cant so ZOS rely on sub renewals monthly.
So for a profits and projections/retention purposes lets say you're 100% right.
Why lock a crafting back behind a sub only?
Thats like ZOS only allowing DLC access with ESO Plus and not allowing ppl to buy DLC.
If thats their logic, they would be encouraged to let those mindsets and consultants go who took them to this conclusion as it cuts into profit potential.
Would it not be more likely to offer a crown increment purchase as well as ESO Plus?-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »
Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard
You could not buy the 10% extra gold.
You could not buy the 10% faster research times.
You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.
So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.
The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.
I didn't think we were arguing points prior to ESO:TU.
You can't throw out that line without clarification. Where in his post did he allude to anything pre-ESO:TU?
When he started listing the perks for ESO+. You can see in my follow up posts I explain that line quite clearly, those perks were decided upon prior to crown store launching even if they did launch at the same time.
Ok let's follow your rules - if they're not allowed to add a new item to subscriber benefits then they're not allowed to add a new item to b2p benefits.
How will ZOS make money now
just remove the whole ESO Plus sub.
move the benefits to anyone who buys crowns...
1500 - 30 days
2500 - more than 30
500 - less than 30
Its that simple....when ZOS removed the sub...they need to learn how to remove things.
You can still offer auto draft of crown packs but just like VR was suppose to be removed and its just renaming them to CP on an account basis...this practice is bad for business.
Personally,I want to keep my sub,thank you. I get the usage of the DLCs without having to buy them,and I like that.
Just saying,..2 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Well it is similar in the respect that now there's a large base of players who have been conditioned to expect that they can buy anything they want for a price on the crown store, piecemeal, and now they're being told "except for this one thing".
Oh, I won't argue that it's not shady. It totally is, but that's business. But this thread isn't about whether baiting people into paying more money is shady, it's about it being unfair that the bags aren't a purchasable option in the crown store. That's completely unrelated.
Let me explain this a slightly different way using this comparison. When they changed the payment model to B2P and made subscriptions optional:
Your argument fell apart at the first sentence.Prior to Crafting bags: had a choice to buy anything a subscriber had access to, IE a standard
You could not buy the 10% extra gold.
You could not buy the 10% faster research times.
You could not buy the 10% bonus xp. Sure, you can buy xp scrolls, but so can subscribers. You can't buy the 10% bonus that subs get.
So the "standard" is that there are currently perks that only ESO+ subscribers can get, that non-subs can not get at any price. And this is how it should be, as there needs to be advantages to subscribing, for it to be a viable alternative.
The only reason people are complaining now, is that ESO+ members are finally being given a subscriber-only perk that's actually useful. There has been no change to the standard.
1. ZOS did not reduce the amount of gold dropped by mobs.
2. ZOS did not increase research times.
3. ZOS did not reduce XP gains.
Here is what they did do: They started introducing large quantities of new crafting materials with every update, without increasing the maximum amount of bank space available for purchase. They did increase bag space for individual characters, which was helpful. But not account wide bank space (upgrades for which can be purchased for crowns, up to a maximum cap).
The only way to solve an inventory management problem that was intentionally created by the company to inconvenience people is to purchase a subscription. It is the only subscription bonus that was created specifically by doing something to intentionally inconvenience players. And that is distasteful.
As far your point goes, the crown store has had its fair share of shady things too. Every update release new motifs that have to be assembled from 14 pages, which range in difficulty to acquire. Then, a few months later, these full motifs appear on the crown store for real money. How is that not the same thing? Put stuff into the game that people want, make it hard to nearly impossible to get quickly, and then give people a fast and easy solution to get it with real money.
But again, that has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
{Edited for teh grammarz.}
People can choose to subscribe or not, that part doesn't matter to me, but it would be nice to see some consistency in how the different groups are treated.
Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.3 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
Ah but it is an exclusive club. One any player can join for 14.99/mo. Joining/subscribing gets you certain exclusive perks. No different than any other club, magazine subscription, membership program. The real issue here, which has already been stated a thousand times, is that now there is a membership perk that the masses find really appealing. They want it, they want it their way, and they want it now. That's it. Sorry, I get it, the bag is gonna be great. Subscribe and enjoy, or don't and go without. The choice is still yours.
Thank you.
(still,putting the bag into the crown store as well would shut down all the risen anger.)Edited by Volkodav on April 26, 2016 6:10PM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
Simply put - they have figured out they will make more money renting the option by making people require a subscription to retain access to it, than they will by selling it outright.
Are you beginning to follow this yet?
I'm following that in your understanding things should flow around this because of you assumption.
Factually, subscriptions aren't bringing them more profits. Lets keep this simple.
If in fact, that was the case, then PC would have a sub and PS4 would differ from PC maybe and Xbox One would be buy2P.
We also know that a subscription is a min of $15/month and some subscribers buy in bulk on PC cause its cheaper. On console we cant so ZOS rely on sub renewals monthly.
So for a profits and projections/retention purposes lets say you're 100% right.
Why lock a crafting back behind a sub only?
Thats like ZOS only allowing DLC access with ESO Plus and not allowing ppl to buy DLC.
If thats their logic, they would be encouraged to let those mindsets and consultants go who took them to this conclusion as it cuts into profit potential.
Would it not be more likely to offer a crown increment purchase as well as ESO Plus?
No. It's nothing like not allowing people to buy DLC - with DLC you can achieve all you want from an area then be done with it, so there's no harm in letting you buy it outright. However with a Crafting Bag only by renting it out in the first place can you make it something people need to continue to rent to retain access to, as it's not anything like an area full of quests you can complete.
If you sell it, then a person can use it endlessly, whereas with a DLC area, people can feel no need to re-visit the area and that wouldn't be as lucrative for renting out as a Crafting Bag will be. They've finally found something that can encourage people to stay subbed, so why would they not use this effectively as an incentive to subscribe (and give them regular payments).5 -
Vulsahdaal✭✭✭✭✭
✭DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »This is ridiculous in my honest opinion... All you who keep saying that ESO+ people should only get the bags are insane. Why should you get the bag and not me? I bought the game, have bought every DLC, buy crowns here and there and spend more in a year on the game than an ESO+ subscriber does yet I am not able to purchase something that will dramatically help my inventory? That is unfair. I am a paying customer just like the subbers and I support the game more than a lot of them. So why shouldn't I be allowed to purchase it?
Ill tell you why I think you shouldnt be able to purchase it, and no Im not going to say how subbers are more loyal or pay more money in per yr than non subbers (maybe its true or maybe it isnt- to me it doesnt matter).
The reasons I think you shouldnt be able to purchase it is first, because the idea behind the availability of this bag seems to be to entice non subbers to sub, as well as bring ex-subbers back into making their monthly payments. This will not work too well if one can just buy it in the crownstore, now would it?
The second reason is, you keep using that word 'purchase'. As in owning it. Subbers are not being given a free bag, they are not even making monthly payments in order to own it one day. They are just renting it, which in time will cost them more money than a non subber would pay for the same exact bag. This doesnt seem very fair to me?
Now if you were to suggest a real equal opportunity, such as non subbers being able to rent these bags from the crown store for set crown fee deducted monthly from their crown pile, and if they were to stop buying crowns and/or cancel the bag they would also lose full use of it, this is something I would have no objections to..
* Also if youre going to answer reason 2, by saying subbers would also have the option to purchase it outright from the crown store, please refer back to reason 1 3 -
Tommy1979AtWar✭✭✭✭Why should those of us who have bought into the B2P model and have already purchased the past dlcs now rent what we already own and what we've already paid for?6
-
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Why should those of us who have bought into the B2P model and have already purchased the past dlcs now rent what we already own and what we've already paid for?
You never owned a Crafting Bag.5 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Why should those of us who have bought into the B2P model and have already purchased the past dlcs now rent what we already own and what we've already paid for?
For access to the crafting bag...3 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »Why should those of us who have bought into the B2P model and have already purchased the past dlcs now rent what we already own and what we've already paid for?
You would still own the DLC that you've purchased if you sub.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!2 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »So why does the non-sub player have to be punished because ESO+ is lacking?
Nobody is punishing you, and nobody is rewarding you for not subbing. People are just being rewarded for subbing and given a further reason to continue subbing.
Making this item a b2p item would give people no reason to continue subbing, how do you not understand this?
...I'm asking for the option to buy.
That would remove the entire point of this bag - to make people require a subscription to retain access to the extra space.
Again, how do you not see this?
They do see it. Thats their point.
Its locked behind a sub instead of being available to buy for all customers.
Why would any company not want a customer to be incentivized to spend money on their product?
ESO Plus isn't an exclusive club
Simply put - they have figured out they will make more money renting the option by making people require a subscription to retain access to it, than they will by selling it outright.
Are you beginning to follow this yet?
I'm following that in your understanding things should flow around this because of you assumption.
Factually, subscriptions aren't bringing them more profits. Lets keep this simple.
If in fact, that was the case, then PC would have a sub and PS4 would differ from PC maybe and Xbox One would be buy2P.
We also know that a subscription is a min of $15/month and some subscribers buy in bulk on PC cause its cheaper. On console we cant so ZOS rely on sub renewals monthly.
So for a profits and projections/retention purposes lets say you're 100% right.
Why lock a crafting back behind a sub only?
Thats like ZOS only allowing DLC access with ESO Plus and not allowing ppl to buy DLC.
If thats their logic, they would be encouraged to let those mindsets and consultants go who took them to this conclusion as it cuts into profit potential.
Would it not be more likely to offer a crown increment purchase as well as ESO Plus?
No. It's nothing like not allowing people to buy DLC - with DLC you can achieve all you want from an area then be done with it, so there's no harm in letting you buy it outright. However with a Crafting Bag only by renting it out in the first place can you make it something people need to continue to rent to retain access to, as it's not anything like an area full of quests you can complete.
If you sell it, then a person can use it endlessly, whereas with a DLC area, people can feel no need to re-visit the area and that wouldn't be as lucrative for renting out as a Crafting Bag will be. They've finally found something that can encourage people to stay subbed, so why would they not use this effectively as an incentive to subscribe (and give them regular payments).
You're arguing semantics here...
DLC
-Content of any kind used in the game....thats everything in the crown store as well as any benefits of any paid DLC including ESO Plus which is DLC because it provides in game content.
So you're telling me that they can sales bank and mount upgrades for bag space....but they should only allow ESO Plus subscribers to have a crafting bag renting it out has more value.
Please stop....read what we are asking...
We are asking that the bag in addition to ESO Plus be available for crowns.
So if that means a higher price or if that means certain access expires after 30-180 days...OK but thats no different than ESO Plus so that argument makes no sense. We want access to use it.
ESO Plus give access to add and remove items. once ESO Plus stops, you don't loose the bag. You just cant add items to it.
If this bag is your understanding of something that will keep people subscribed then your missing the feedback.
One group wants to pay $15 month for it
another group jest wants to buy it outright.....
who is missing out on money. I buy DLC...play it on all 8 characters and soon to be more with more slots so IC...that been a year for a set price. But you're saying a crafting bag needs to be different.....
Well if thats the case, then the whole game needs to be sub only for all DLC including bags and no crowns purchases other than vanity items.
Right?Edited by NewBlacksmurf on April 26, 2016 6:23PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011
This discussion has been closed.