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The Bone Shield change is overkill.
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Jsmalls✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's no more overkill than letting annulment absorb physical damage. If ones ok, so is the other far as I'm concerned. Very excited to try out a 40k stamina heavy armor DK stacking bone shield shuffle and igneous
You forgot wings, rally, and vigor coupled with Dodge rolling. Poor magicka builds.2 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Sure you can run vigor, rally, shield, shuffle, but when will you put out dps? Even though you can maintain high damage with that setup, that won't matter cause you spend too much time buffing.
Not to say your view of diversity is wrong in anyway; just an observation in regards to the particular quoted comment...
Everyone hates shield stacking Sorcs. 'High burst damage and more surviveability than tanks' is often how shield stacking Sorcs are described. Yet they have Hardened Ward, Harness Magicka, and Healing Ward on their bar, while being forced to run Resto Staff, and yet they can still be extremely lethal. Don't see it being too different for Stam toons in PvP. There will be plenty of options, but some players will absolutely stack all the heals, shields, and damage mitigation they can and still be extremely effective at damage output. And when this happens, it will be just as broken as Sorc shield stacking in PvP.
Is that really balance?
It was the length of time the shields were uo that made it an issue. Being able to have 2 shields up for an extended time like that meant still being able to do damage. The reduced time goes a long way. It means you sacrifice dps to keep shields up. Same goes for stam. The 5 second duration and the short duration on rally keep stam in check. Choose to keep buffs up, or leave yourself vulnerable to attack. The trade off is there.
Yes, I think this is balanced while creating diversity in builds tanks can also be real tanks in PvP now.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭I will remind everyone that we have a champion system that has a star that increases damage against shields. Perhaps you start allocating points into that star?
You know, think outside the box a little here folks.
Ahhhhhh I have to make choices on where to put my points now!!!!!!!2 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭yeah the shield should be way smaller, at this point i better run bone shield than cloak in my stamblade lolIf 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh
42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.
not really. In general stam players, compared to magika players, are more forced to run drinks (specially stamblades). Plus there isn't many ways of stack max stam (there is no equivalent to the mages guiuld passives that increase max magika for each ability, or inner light giving 5%, or bound aegis giving 8%)
You can do some builds that run 40k max stam, but you will have to drop some damage to get a baseline regen or be really conservative with the dodge roll, and is not very viable with anything besides redguard.0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭yeah the shield should be way smaller, at this point i better run bone shield than cloak in my stamblade lolIf 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh
42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.
not really. In general stam players, compared to magika players, are more forced to run drinks (specially stamblades). Plus there isn't many ways of stack max stam (there is no equivalent to the mages guiuld passives that increase max magika for each ability, or inner light giving 5%, or bound aegis giving 8%)
You can do some builds that run 40k max stam, but you will have to drop some damage to get a baseline regen or be really conservative with the dodge roll, and is not very viable with anything besides redguard.
Redguard or Imperial with sword and shield, all 4 large armor pieces (you forgot the shield) infused, food, and a max stamina item set build using 3-4pc sets like Crusader / 2pc v14 Hawkeye + 3 Agility / etc.
This is standard for a well built snb stamina character with the correct race and min maxed item sets, and if you manage your resources well with Redguard or cost reduction, then you won't have sustain problems. This is the strongest standalone stamina build right now, meaning its power above all the others must be taken into consideration with new balance changes. This build given Bone Shield will be absurdly strong.Edited by KenaPKK on April 26, 2016 4:39AM0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh
42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.
I think 99% of stam templars/nightblades have much less than 42k+ stamina. Most stam users run drink.
Most but not all. Those who run food will be incredibly strong with this shield -- especially snb builds. And those who run drink will be able to roll more and cast more shields, albeit smaller ones, making them just as unkillable if not moreso.It's no more overkill than letting annulment absorb physical damage. If ones ok, so is the other far as I'm concerned. Very excited to try out a 40k stamina heavy armor DK stacking bone shield shuffle and igneous
But balanced?.......
I agree that the Annulment change is a bad idea too.2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the shield is fine, although making shields crit-able has been overdue.2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think as long as magicka builds are bad at dodge-rolling, stamina builds should not have easy access to strong shields.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.14 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shieldbreaker anyone..lol
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just make major defile effect not only healing but shields. Problem solvedThis recent update has made me sad. Sad for the game. Sad for the community. Sad to pay whatever it is now. I want the previous eso back.0 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Look guys, stamina is supposed to be 2x more powerful than magicka. Get out of PTS and on to live to enjoy your last bit of balance.PC EU5 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Wrong, Wrobel stated on ESO Live before TG even came out that they had major stam buffs for DB which they simply 'couldn't fit' into TG. This stuff was planned long ago.It is an insane change. The existing Bone Shield has been cited by many experienced players as a sane damage shield because it scales off max health.
I suppose ZOS bought the VD hype? They concluded that because so many players were playing novelty VD builds that stamina builds needed to be buffed?0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭If 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh
42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.
I think 99% of stam templars/nightblades have much less than 42k+ stamina. Most stam users run drink.
this, 30-35k on imp&RG is a reasonable stam value in pvp.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Because we stamina builds have much lesser sustain than sustain and with the increased cost of Dodge, Block and CC, this is very much for us to remain competitive.
Not really. If you cannot survive with shuffle, dodge roll, and vigor in PvP then you are not playing your toon to its fullest.
My guestimation is that this shield change was added more for content like vMSA as it is genuinely more difficult with stam toons and such a shield would help significantly. However, this shield has the potential to truly make stam OP in PvP. Not sure the best way to balance this one; guess it's a good time to again mention the game really needs separate PvP and PvE profiles where the devs can make changes to skills and mechanics for one without effecting the other.
Edit: And btw, stam doesn't have less sustain than magicka. Magicka NBs, and to a lesser extend stam NBs, have phenomenal sustain. However, play a mag Sorc, mag DK, or even a mag Templar and you will definitely feel the strain. I play both stamina and magicka of all classes and I do not struggle for resources more on my stam than on my mag. Stam drains quick if dodge rolling a lot. However, a single CC break on my mag toons means I am dead next CC. In PvE the sustain is the same. In PvP I must build for more sustain on both my mag and stam toons.
Yeah because shuffle saves you from for example: tether, proxy, vicious death, sap essence, impulse ?
Nope
I see no complaints from you about annulment absorbing physical damage too : ) EU | PC0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭40k stamina stam dudes running around with a 10k-ish shield sounds terrible... They were already strong enough -- why give them Hardened Ward too? @ZOS_GinaBruno
Sorry but "them"?
Bone shield is a global skill and don't cost THAT much. Just like block, this is available to all.
I don't see any point with this post?Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh
42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.
No every Stam builds are Redguard and Imperial. There are a lot of Khajiits, Bosmer too.0 -
Sunburnt_Penguin✭✭✭✭✭Well shields are halved in PvP so it's actually 15% of max stamina, not 30%:
- 40k stam = 6k
- 35k stam = 5.25k
- 30k stam = 4.5kEdited by Sunburnt_Penguin on April 26, 2016 8:20AM2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is an insane change. The existing Bone Shield has been cited by many experienced players as a sane damage shield because it scales off max health.
I suppose ZOS bought the VD hype? They concluded that because so many players were playing novelty VD builds that stamina builds needed to be buffed?
I agree, other shields should scale to max health too...
...and in my opinion, Harness needed to be completely reworked as another ability entirely. Shields in their current form are toxic to gameplay in general. They require very little decision making and have only Shieldbreaker as counterplay, and we all know how dumb SB is.
Bolded the part I agree with mostly. Boneshield should not scale off max stamina, harness magicka and morphs should not protect against all types of dmg.
PC EU
PvP only3 -
Reevster✭✭✭✭✭Just need bigger Zergs to kill Stam shield stacker's.... nice way to promote larger zergs because stam players are hard to kill as it is, no one will bother traveling in small groups. Well except Stam stacker's lol hence the need for a zerg to take them out.0
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Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe actually play the PTS a bit before trying to re-nerf stamina - we haven't even had our promised buffs up on PTS for more than a handful of hours and you are already trying to ensure we can't get them into live 0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »I think as long as magicka builds are bad at dodge-rolling, stamina builds should not have easy access to strong shields.
there are traits and champ points to help with that. not to mention, you could always wear 2 pieces of medium armor.WillhelmBlack wrote: »Look guys, stamina is supposed to be 2x more powerful than magicka. Get out of PTS and on to live to enjoy your last bit of balance.
Right, because it is so balanced on live curently.0 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »Yeah I think this is such an unnecessary addition to the stamina toolkit. Infinite shuffle + tons of roll dodges + stamina hardened ward is a bit overkill in my opinion.
I don't thing so.......
Because of expert hunter and snareplars0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »Yeah I think this is such an unnecessary addition to the stamina toolkit. Infinite shuffle + tons of roll dodges + stamina hardened ward is a bit overkill in my opinion.
I don't thing so.......
Because of expert hunter and snareplars
Snareplars not working vs Shuffle and changed momentum. i.e. against stamina builds at all.
But we all knew that promises to buff stamina meant that stamina will be FOTM for next months,so..Edited by Cinbri on April 26, 2016 8:58AM3 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭dtsv217_ESO wrote: »I feel as though ALL shields should be based off of max health. That way both the Sorcerers ward and this new change to bone wall will not be OP.
Won't solve a thing, if shields were crittable then players won't be gimped when fighting them.0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh
42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.
No every Stam builds are Redguard and Imperial. There are a lot of Khajiits, Bosmer too.
You have to balance around the extremes, else they become op and dominate.Edited by KenaPKK on April 26, 2016 9:58AM0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭40k stamina stam dudes running around with a 10k-ish shield sounds terrible... They were already strong enough -- why give them Hardened Ward too? @ZOS_GinaBruno
Sorry but "them"?
Bone shield is a global skill and don't cost THAT much. Just like block, this is available to all.
I don't see any point with this post?
So you believe that 40k+ stamina snb redguard Dragonknights with Shuffle and dodge roll and a 7k.5k shield that they can renew as they roll around is balanced?2 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Master_Kas wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Because we stamina builds have much lesser sustain than sustain and with the increased cost of Dodge, Block and CC, this is very much for us to remain competitive.
Not really. If you cannot survive with shuffle, dodge roll, and vigor in PvP then you are not playing your toon to its fullest.
My guestimation is that this shield change was added more for content like vMSA as it is genuinely more difficult with stam toons and such a shield would help significantly. However, this shield has the potential to truly make stam OP in PvP. Not sure the best way to balance this one; guess it's a good time to again mention the game really needs separate PvP and PvE profiles where the devs can make changes to skills and mechanics for one without effecting the other.
Edit: And btw, stam doesn't have less sustain than magicka. Magicka NBs, and to a lesser extend stam NBs, have phenomenal sustain. However, play a mag Sorc, mag DK, or even a mag Templar and you will definitely feel the strain. I play both stamina and magicka of all classes and I do not struggle for resources more on my stam than on my mag. Stam drains quick if dodge rolling a lot. However, a single CC break on my mag toons means I am dead next CC. In PvE the sustain is the same. In PvP I must build for more sustain on both my mag and stam toons.
Yeah because shuffle saves you from for example: tether, proxy, vicious death, sap essence, impulse ?
Nope I see no complaints from you about annulment absorbing physical damage too : )
i actually do not see any advantage in the anulement change, you loose the option to stack shields versus multiple dmg sources by stacking ward and anulement, and refreshing those depending on your main inc dmg type(you know skillfull abilitiy usage...
). by having both covering both they will be depleted one after another, you lose a lot of magica refill on physical attacks denying one of its core reasons to be used at all without gaining anything worthwhile out of it beside epeen stroking: who has the bigger shield size number...
stamina sustain in pvp difficult? if so you are doing sth significantly wrong.
with 1-2 small well fitted pieces your rolldodges cost are beneath their current costs +shuffle + vigor + now the bone shield with common 30k+ stamina it is quite abit over the top...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
willymchilybily✭✭✭✭although i think it is unnecessary im not against it. i barely have space on my bars as is. I certainly cant add a 6 second shield and gain much. without losing somethign crucial. I see it going 2 ways
regen builds: will still use shuffle/elude +drinks realising that shields like those they complained about on sorcs aren't actually all that now they have them and aren't stacking high enough max stats to get a decent shield from it.
High Stat builds: will probably use food and pop bone shield before hitting vigor or during. cant use it as a constant damage shield as don't have the same level of sustainPSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7201
