The Bone Shield change is overkill.

KenaPKK

40k stamina stam dudes running around with a 10k-ish shield sounds terrible... They were already strong enough -- why give them Hardened Ward too? @ZOS_GinaBruno

DisgracefulMind

Yeah I think this is such an unnecessary addition to the stamina toolkit. Infinite shuffle + tons of roll dodges + stamina hardened ward is a bit overkill in my opinion.

staracino_ESO

I'll add my +1 to this.

blabafat

Agreed

Ishammael

Agreed. This is a bad change

GreenSoup2HoT

Bone Shield cannot be crit right? If that's the case i can finally drop Impen and run the new well-fitted for roll dodge funzies!

Kattemynte

I feel as though ALL shields should be based off of max health. That way both the Sorcerers ward and this new change to bone wall will not be OP.

Xsorus

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Bone Shield cannot be crit right? If that's the case i can finally drop Impen and run the new well-fitted for roll dodge funzies!

You'll open yourself up to getting one rounded by doing that..but i'm not going to tell ya know lol.

Shields become active defense now instead of passive defense..similar to Blocking/Dodging.

zyk

It is an insane change. The existing Bone Shield has been cited by many experienced players as a sane damage shield because it scales off max health.

I suppose ZOS bought the VD hype? They concluded that because so many players were playing novelty VD builds that stamina builds needed to be buffed?

bowmanz607

the duration keeps it in check. the new approach to shields makes players actually sacrifice dps for defense.

KenaPKK

zyk wrote: »

It is an insane change. The existing Bone Shield has been cited by many experienced players as a sane damage shield because it scales off max health.

I suppose ZOS bought the VD hype? They concluded that because so many players were playing novelty VD builds that stamina builds needed to be buffed?

I agree, other shields should scale to max health too...

...and in my opinion, Harness needed to be completely reworked as another ability entirely. Shields in their current form are toxic to gameplay in general. They require very little decision making and have only Shieldbreaker as counterplay, and we all know how dumb SB is.

ostrapz

If 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Finally bone shield is useful. lets not kill it in the crib. Shields are a greater problem that won't be fixed by limiting them to 6 seconds.

bowmanz607

mmmmmmmm shield breaker.......

overall, no issue with the change here. we do have a champ star to deal with this too. Again, short duration which reduces dps and resources to cast.

Refuse2GrowUp

+1

Seems quite a bit overkill when stacked with shuffle, and taking dodge roll effectiveness into account. Combined with new sets like Vicecanon of Venom, where you do a decent dot and get healed for that damage, seems stamina will already have a decent tool box.

Think it best this change be shelfed for the time being to see how stamina does in this upcoming meta, as I think stam will be sitting in a really good spot even without this.

That said, it would help stam builds in vMSA. But, this is one of those changes, that while welcome in PvE, could potentially break PvP.

KenaPKK

ostrapz wrote: »

If 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh

42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.

KenaPKK

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Finally bone shield is useful. lets not kill it in the crib. Shields are a greater problem that won't be fixed by limiting them to 6 seconds.

Translation: "Eh, shields are already op, and the 6 second duration nerf isn't going to change that. Might as well just create another op shield."

Master_Kas

I asked for a stamina based shield which absorbs physical and magic damage for a while now.

Ofc people scream "no".

I like it and embrace it

Synozeer

KenaPKK wrote: »

ostrapz wrote: »

If 40kstam is 10k shield and 20k stam is 5k shield that means 30kstam( a little more normal than 40k) is o ly 7.5k shield which is 1or 2 hits , i dont see it getting that much use outside of group play tbh

42k+ stam is standard for a well built Redguard or Imperial character, and absorbing one or two hits is efficient for a single shield cast. It will become an instant must-use if this change goes through.

I think 99% of stam templars/nightblades have much less than 42k+ stamina. Most stam users run drink.

Vaoh

Bone Shield needs to remain how it currently is in terms of scaling off health. STAMINA builds should not be spamming shields. You think Magicka Sorc right now are OP? Wait until this shows up! Stamina in general will be far too strong.

CyrusArya

It's no more overkill than letting annulment absorb physical damage. If ones ok, so is the other far as I'm concerned. Very excited to try out a 40k stamina heavy armor DK stacking bone shield shuffle and igneous

Dyride

I pretty much solely play stamina characters and still don't think this was necessary. You get good mitigation with Shuffle+Roll dodge+Vigor as long as you react quickly.

Granted this will be good for builds that don't want to rely on Rally for a burst heal and need some instant damage offset. I can definitely see DW/Bow builds being more viable now.

susmitds

Because we stamina builds have much lesser sustain than sustain and with the increased cost of Dodge, Block and CC, this is very much for us to remain competitive.

susmitds

It will be necessary in PvE more as it means well less rolls and blocks for us and more take the hit face on.

Mojmir

ESO=elder shields online

Refuse2GrowUp

susmitds wrote: »

Because we stamina builds have much lesser sustain than sustain and with the increased cost of Dodge, Block and CC, this is very much for us to remain competitive.

Not really. If you cannot survive with shuffle, dodge roll, and vigor in PvP then you are not playing your toon to its fullest.

My guestimation is that this shield change was added more for content like vMSA as it is genuinely more difficult with stam toons and such a shield would help significantly. However, this shield has the potential to truly make stam OP in PvP. Not sure the best way to balance this one; guess it's a good time to again mention the game really needs separate PvP and PvE profiles where the devs can make changes to skills and mechanics for one without effecting the other.

Edit: And btw, stam doesn't have less sustain than magicka. Magicka NBs, and to a lesser extend stam NBs, have phenomenal sustain. However, play a mag Sorc, mag DK, or even a mag Templar and you will definitely feel the strain. I play both stamina and magicka of all classes and I do not struggle for resources more on my stam than on my mag. Stam drains quick if dodge rolling a lot. However, a single CC break on my mag toons means I am dead next CC. In PvE the sustain is the same. In PvP I must build for more sustain on both my mag and stam toons.

bowmanz607

Dyride wrote: »

I pretty much solely play stamina characters and still don't think this was necessary. You get good mitigation with Shuffle+Roll dodge+Vigor as long as you react quickly.

Granted this will be good for builds that don't want to rely on Rally for a burst heal and need some instant damage offset. I can definitely see DW/Bow builds being more viable now.

That is exactly the point. It gives more diversity. Now you can run rally and shield or dw/bow setup with rally and shield and it be more v8able. Perhaps substitute one of those for sword and board. This opens up builds. Gone are the days of everyone havein to run 2 hand on one bar and being pigeon holed into shuffle. Sure you can run vigor, rally, shield, shuffle, but when will you put out dps? Even though you can maintain high damage with that setup, that won't matter cause you spend too much time buffing.

Overall, I see this as increasing build diversity for stam.

KenaPKK

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

I pretty much solely play stamina characters and still don't think this was necessary. You get good mitigation with Shuffle+Roll dodge+Vigor as long as you react quickly.

Granted this will be good for builds that don't want to rely on Rally for a burst heal and need some instant damage offset. I can definitely see DW/Bow builds being more viable now.

That is exactly the point. It gives more diversity. Now you can run rally and shield or dw/bow setup with rally and shield and it be more v8able. Perhaps substitute one of those for sword and board. This opens up builds. Gone are the days of everyone havein to run 2 hand on one bar and being pigeon holed into shuffle. Sure you can run vigor, rally, shield, shuffle, but when will you put out dps? Even though you can maintain high damage with that setup, that won't matter cause you spend too much time buffing.

Overall, I see this as increasing build diversity for stam.

Not really. Sure, it makes them "viable," but buffing Bone Shield in this manner will just make the meta builds even stronger, namely snb/2h using Rally and Shuffle with 42k stamina and roll dodge and NOW with Bone Shield.

bowmanz607

KenaPKK wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

I pretty much solely play stamina characters and still don't think this was necessary. You get good mitigation with Shuffle+Roll dodge+Vigor as long as you react quickly.

Granted this will be good for builds that don't want to rely on Rally for a burst heal and need some instant damage offset. I can definitely see DW/Bow builds being more viable now.

That is exactly the point. It gives more diversity. Now you can run rally and shield or dw/bow setup with rally and shield and it be more v8able. Perhaps substitute one of those for sword and board. This opens up builds. Gone are the days of everyone havein to run 2 hand on one bar and being pigeon holed into shuffle. Sure you can run vigor, rally, shield, shuffle, but when will you put out dps? Even though you can maintain high damage with that setup, that won't matter cause you spend too much time buffing.

Overall, I see this as increasing build diversity for stam.

Not really. Sure, it makes them "viable," but buffing Bone Shield in this manner will just make the meta builds even stronger, namely snb/2h using Rally and Shuffle with 42k stamina and roll dodge and NOW with Bone Shield.

But again, when are the fools going to have time to kill you. All they will do is burn there resources on defensive abilities. Not only is it resource intensive, but keeping up all those buffs means little damage Goin out. Or burst damage which is when they are vulnerable.

Refuse2GrowUp

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Sure you can run vigor, rally, shield, shuffle, but when will you put out dps? Even though you can maintain high damage with that setup, that won't matter cause you spend too much time buffing.

Not to say your view of diversity is wrong in anyway; just an observation in regards to the particular quoted comment...

Everyone hates shield stacking Sorcs. 'High burst damage and more surviveability than tanks' is often how shield stacking Sorcs are described. Yet they have Hardened Ward, Harness Magicka, and Healing Ward on their bar, while being forced to run Resto Staff, and yet they can still be extremely lethal. Don't see it being too different for Stam toons in PvP. There will be plenty of options, but some players will absolutely stack all the heals, shields, and damage mitigation they can and still be extremely effective at damage output. And when this happens, it will be just as broken as Sorc shield stacking in PvP.

Is that really balance?

Mojmir

Ill try it,but never really needed a shield for stamina.