The Bone Shield change is overkill.

Meshal

it's good for msa i think

Soris

ugh

cschwingeb14_ESO

8s sorc shield has a lower value

While currently stam users stack WD, we can certainly change gearing setups to stack stam. Sacrificing some damage (not a lot) for larger bone shield. Like sorcs have already done forever in PvP and vma

The bone shield synergy is a huge shield. It will be 15k on the right setup (don't forget Bastion and 40k stamina) and apply to the group. It will be the new Barrier

Stam blade is going to be ridiculous. Dodge, cloak, bone shield, Vigor... While wearing shield breaker to win the mirror match

bowmanz607

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

8s sorc shield has a lower value

While currently stam users stack WD, we can certainly change gearing setups to stack stam. Sacrificing some damage (not a lot) for larger bone shield. Like sorcs have already done forever in PvP and vma

The bone shield synergy is a huge shield. It will be 15k on the right setup (don't forget Bastion and 40k stamina) and apply to the group. It will be the new Barrier

Stam blade is going to be ridiculous. Dodge, cloak, bone shield, Vigor... While wearing shield breaker to win the mirror match

ow does one win a fight if they hare constantly draining their resources on dodge, cloak, shield, and vigor? if they are doing all that, then they are not attacking. if they are doing all that, then they are killing their resources. where is the dps if your just buffing?

cschwingeb14_ESO

Dodge-roll clipping skills takes no time and you still get your attack/buff/heal. Clip your Vigor/momentum with a Dodge roll. CC/DPS until you need to bone shield. Re shield/heal/buff during their CC immunity. Repeat

The point is that stam NB used to be able to evade attacks with cloak, giving them an extra defensive option to reset the dodge roll cooldown. Now there are 2 options outside of healing (heal debuffs being a concern, but now much less so)

Although I could be wrong about stam blade OPness. It all really depends on whether poisons are cleansed by Templar ritual.

Baconlad

Hah...not excited for seeing "dodged, dodged, dodged, dodged, miss, miss, dodged, absorbed, absorbed, absorbed, 10*, 10*, dodged, absorbed"

Digiman

The concept of shields in this game is lost on most people, WITHOUT SHIELDS SORCS WOULD DIE IN 2 SHOTS!

The only way to compensate that was to either provide an ability to give back survivabilty or make them into full blown glass cannons.

What worse is the stupid cheering idiots are making, they look at the nerf like a blessing unaware the curse is really adding more abilities to shield stack.

Yes Stamina may have gotten a shield but it's only one, the rest of the sorcererers will be stacking annulment and ward and even though it's 6 seconds that's still double the strength.

This patch only addressed the stress of the sorc's survivabilty, making them more worried when to apply their shields not their survivability.

Armitas

Baconlad wrote: »

Hah...not excited for seeing "dodged, dodged, dodged, dodged, miss, miss, dodged, absorbed, absorbed, absorbed, 10*, 10*, dodged, absorbed"

Yeah, seriously why are we taking what everyone hates about fighting sorcs and multiplying it. I am so not looking forward to seeing that.

Digiman

Armitas wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Hah...not excited for seeing "dodged, dodged, dodged, dodged, miss, miss, dodged, absorbed, absorbed, absorbed, 10*, 10*, dodged, absorbed"

Yeah, seriously why are we taking what everyone hates about fighting sorcs and multiplying it. I am so not looking forward to seeing that.

I think the developers are idiots or just inept and need to be fired. You can't be this ignorant and still keep a job with so many mistakes.

This is just a long line of problems that at the core would be solved if they listened, or got replaced.

LorDrek

Baconlad wrote: »

Hah...not excited for seeing "dodged, dodged, dodged, dodged, miss, miss, dodged, absorbed, absorbed, absorbed, 10*, 10*, dodged, absorbed"

This take all stamina, no fight.

Block nerf, no stamina regen
Sprint nerf, no stamina regen
Hide move, no stamina regen

Stamina need schield, stamina schield.

Derra

bowmanz607 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

40k stamina stam dudes running around with a 10k-ish shield sounds terrible... They were already strong enough -- why give them Hardened Ward too? @ZOS_GinaBruno

I my honest opinion this was done by the devs to push forwards their nuke sorc campaign. By reducing sorcs shields and giving stam users a better longer duration shield, pretty much makes magicka sorcs compelled to reroll new FoTM stam DK. Make sure to face roll your keyboard for the win on current PTS stam DK I know I did, and is now leveling up one as I type this.

#RIPBUILDDIVERSITY

Oh well I will "Somehow carry on!"
Again atleast now I have many reasons to roll DK being it's the only class I don't have, tbh I was wanting for them to make magicka DK competitive in PvE/PvP again. Oh well held my breath for too long, so I'll get off this Wait Train at Stamina Dragonknight station.

ummm stam shield is same duration not longer. sorcs still have longest duration shield at 8 seconds.

what do you mena rip diversity? cause sorcs were so diverse right? i bet if you pool together all the mag sorcs currently in the game and they have the same skills on their bars.

That´s because the sorc skillset is terrible. It´s not like people don´t want to play different - it´s just they can´t. If you´re taking a look at the sorc arsenal the class is about as one dimensional as it gets.
It might get better with the removal of DB and proxy but in the end in terms of class skills sorc is probably the most limited out of all classes in terms of useful spells to choose from.

Refuse2GrowUp

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

40k stamina stam dudes running around with a 10k-ish shield sounds terrible... They were already strong enough -- why give them Hardened Ward too? @ZOS_GinaBruno

I my honest opinion this was done by the devs to push forwards their nuke sorc campaign. By reducing sorcs shields and giving stam users a better longer duration shield, pretty much makes magicka sorcs compelled to reroll new FoTM stam DK. Make sure to face roll your keyboard for the win on current PTS stam DK I know I did, and is now leveling up one as I type this.

#RIPBUILDDIVERSITY

Oh well I will "Somehow carry on!"
Again atleast now I have many reasons to roll DK being it's the only class I don't have, tbh I was wanting for them to make magicka DK competitive in PvE/PvP again. Oh well held my breath for too long, so I'll get off this Wait Train at Stamina Dragonknight station.

ummm stam shield is same duration not longer. sorcs still have longest duration shield at 8 seconds.

what do you mena rip diversity? cause sorcs were so diverse right? i bet if you pool together all the mag sorcs currently in the game and they have the same skills on their bars.

That´s because the sorc skillset is terrible. It´s not like people don´t want to play different - it´s just they can´t. If you´re taking a look at the sorc arsenal the class is about as one dimensional as it gets.
It might get better with the removal of DB and proxy but in the end in terms of class skills sorc is probably the most limited out of all classes in terms of useful spells to choose from.

Bad excuse for shield stacking. When I play my mag Sorc in PvP, which is very rarely as I don't find it too challenging, I use only Hardened Ward. I do so because I don't want to contribute to the larger problem that is shield stacking, and because it really isn't necessary. Hardened Ward spam is more than enough to keep you in the fight when the pressure is turned up.

Makkir

Can we get a magicka version of shieldbreaker set now?

bowmanz607

Makkir wrote: »

Can we get a magicka version of shieldbreaker set now?

there is a star in the champ system

Makkir

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Can we get a magicka version of shieldbreaker set now?

there is a star in the champ system

thank you captain obvious

bowmanz607

Makkir wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Can we get a magicka version of shieldbreaker set now?

there is a star in the champ system

thank you captain obvious

well people act like shields are the end of the world. run that star then. I bet most players dont even have points into that. now it will be utilized.

Derra

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

40k stamina stam dudes running around with a 10k-ish shield sounds terrible... They were already strong enough -- why give them Hardened Ward too? @ZOS_GinaBruno

I my honest opinion this was done by the devs to push forwards their nuke sorc campaign. By reducing sorcs shields and giving stam users a better longer duration shield, pretty much makes magicka sorcs compelled to reroll new FoTM stam DK. Make sure to face roll your keyboard for the win on current PTS stam DK I know I did, and is now leveling up one as I type this.

#RIPBUILDDIVERSITY

Oh well I will "Somehow carry on!"
Again atleast now I have many reasons to roll DK being it's the only class I don't have, tbh I was wanting for them to make magicka DK competitive in PvE/PvP again. Oh well held my breath for too long, so I'll get off this Wait Train at Stamina Dragonknight station.

ummm stam shield is same duration not longer. sorcs still have longest duration shield at 8 seconds.

what do you mena rip diversity? cause sorcs were so diverse right? i bet if you pool together all the mag sorcs currently in the game and they have the same skills on their bars.

That´s because the sorc skillset is terrible. It´s not like people don´t want to play different - it´s just they can´t. If you´re taking a look at the sorc arsenal the class is about as one dimensional as it gets.
It might get better with the removal of DB and proxy but in the end in terms of class skills sorc is probably the most limited out of all classes in terms of useful spells to choose from.

Bad excuse for shield stacking. When I play my mag Sorc in PvP, which is very rarely as I don't find it too challenging, I use only Hardened Ward. I do so because I don't want to contribute to the larger problem that is shield stacking, and because it really isn't necessary. Hardened Ward spam is more than enough to keep you in the fight when the pressure is turned up.

How the hell do you get to shieldstacking with my statement? @Refuse2GrowUp
I make a general statement about the sorc class being very one dimensional (something hardly to deny even by sorc haters) and you somehow get to shieldstacking?

I only use hardened ward myself. Yet i find myself using 80% of the same abilities as every other sorc simply bc the class does not offer choices.
As a result when someone critizises sorcs for all playing the "cookie cutter" build i make statements as the above. It´s not like ppl don´t want to. It´s they can´t and one of the few possibilities got removed this patch (trapping webs DW/1S&B/doubleresto). So you´re going to see even more sorcs only using the same abilities as every other sorc. If you see any at all.

Makkir

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Can we get a magicka version of shieldbreaker set now?

there is a star in the champ system

thank you captain obvious

well people act like shields are the end of the world. run that star then. I bet most players dont even have points into that. now it will be utilized.

Changes were made to the champion trees last round to encourage more diversity yet we're right back pigeon-holing everyone to a particular tree. And to your comment, stamina users have shieldbreaker set plus the Champion perk.

bowmanz607

Makkir wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Can we get a magicka version of shieldbreaker set now?

there is a star in the champ system

thank you captain obvious

well people act like shields are the end of the world. run that star then. I bet most players dont even have points into that. now it will be utilized.

Changes were made to the champion trees last round to encourage more diversity yet we're right back pigeon-holing everyone to a particular tree. And to your comment, stamina users have shieldbreaker set plus the Champion perk.

and mag builds have VD.

we all have something the others dont have. that is how it works. everyone cant have everything.

also, it doesnt pigeon whole anyone into anything. it simply makes the star more useful. as it stands currently no one uses that star. Now you can choose to either do raw damage or crit or shield damage etc. it provides more options making your build more diverse. you do more damage against shields and you lose damage else where. you do more damage to players, and you lose damage against shields. choices are never bad.

dodgehopper_ESO

KenaPKK wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

It is an insane change. The existing Bone Shield has been cited by many experienced players as a sane damage shield because it scales off max health.

I suppose ZOS bought the VD hype? They concluded that because so many players were playing novelty VD builds that stamina builds needed to be buffed?

I agree, other shields should scale to max health too...

...and in my opinion, Harness needed to be completely reworked as another ability entirely. Shields in their current form are toxic to gameplay in general. They require very little decision making and have only Shieldbreaker as counterplay, and we all know how dumb SB is.

I'm of the view that the reflect/absorb powers should not be a 100% thing in this game, in the same manner that dodge chance is not a 100% thing. There is a reason you can become OP in games like Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim. Almost every character I've ever made in those games had 100% chance to absorb magicka, which is HUGELY OP. Its fine in a standalone game but very bad in an MMO. I think if they made that one change, they could balance these skills to be useful but not unfair.

Mojomonkeyman

This will be interesting!

dodgehopper_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Finally bone shield is useful. lets not kill it in the crib. Shields are a greater problem that won't be fixed by limiting them to 6 seconds.

I agree.

ManDraKE

People think that stam users will be spamming that shield like a magika sorc, but that won't happend.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

This will be interesting!

full infused with the tower and single stat food? lol, that build is only good for screenshots.

Sugaroverdose

ManDraKE wrote: »

People think that stam users will be spamming that shield like a magika sorc, but that won't happend.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

This will be interesting!

full infused with the tower and single stat food? lol, that build is only good for screenshots.

Blablabla.
People spam WB on Live servers? Yes.
A little more experienced does make animation cancelling of it? Yes.
People dodge whole the freaking time? Yes.

How does it looks now:
vigor+dodge+rally+dodge=can attack now

Now they will have a little better faster option to return into fight:
vigor+dodge+bs=can attack now

And this will be used almost by everyone, people who will not use it on release, just didn't leveled up undaunted.


Fact is: 99% of stamina users are glass canons and they don't have any negative effect from that, they just can negate all damage just by dodge roll which is insanely cheap for them.

zyk

Roll Dodge + Shuffle + Bone Shield = ugh. With proper shield use, Vigor won't even be necessary.

Mojomonkeyman

ManDraKE wrote: »

People think that stam users will be spamming that shield like a magika sorc, but that won't happend.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

This will be interesting!

full infused with the tower and single stat food? lol, that build is only good for screenshots.

Full impen, warrior, no undaunted passives and I run with that build in PvP since about a month. How about you take your assumptions with you and crawl back into your cave?

I`m all for that shield, no need for you to get that aggressive just because my screenshot doesnt serve your agenda, mate.

CyrusArya

zyk wrote: »

Roll Dodge + Shuffle + Bone Shield = ugh. With proper shield use, Vigor won't even be necessary.

Nah, the synergy between vigor and bone shield+dodge roll is too damn good not to use. If anything, rally won't be necessary. And that's one thing I like about this change. Even though overall I'd prefer this and harness stay as they are on live, I'll make do with what I get access to. And this change makes a lot more things viable, like running a dual wield/sword and board build I've been dying to try without feeling gimped cus I don't have a burst heal.

At any rate, it seems like a lot of magicka builds are upset that stamina builds will be harder to kill. Well guess what, every single magicka build will be harder to kill as stamina now too. You can't deny that it's balanced, even if that balance is being implemented in the wrong direction.

KenaPKK

CyrusArya wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Roll Dodge + Shuffle + Bone Shield = ugh. With proper shield use, Vigor won't even be necessary.

Nah, the synergy between vigor and bone shield+dodge roll is too damn good not to use. If anything, rally won't be necessary. And that's one thing I like about this change. Even though overall I'd prefer this and harness stay as they are on live, I'll make do with what I get access to. And this change makes a lot more things viable, like running a dual wield/sword and board build I've been dying to try without feeling gimped cus I don't have a burst heal.

At any rate, it seems like a lot of magicka builds are upset that stamina builds will be harder to kill. Well guess what, every single magicka build will be harder to kill as stamina now too. You can't deny that it's balanced, even if that balance is being implemented in the wrong direction.

Rally has been borderline unnecessary for a long time. This makes it entirely unnecessary... Between this change and the annulment change, everyone is going to be impossible to kill. Like wtf is ZOS thinking?

KenaPKK

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

It is an insane change. The existing Bone Shield has been cited by many experienced players as a sane damage shield because it scales off max health.

I suppose ZOS bought the VD hype? They concluded that because so many players were playing novelty VD builds that stamina builds needed to be buffed?

I agree, other shields should scale to max health too...

...and in my opinion, Harness needed to be completely reworked as another ability entirely. Shields in their current form are toxic to gameplay in general. They require very little decision making and have only Shieldbreaker as counterplay, and we all know how dumb SB is.

I'm of the view that the reflect/absorb powers should not be a 100% thing in this game, in the same manner that dodge chance is not a 100% thing. There is a reason you can become OP in games like Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim. Almost every character I've ever made in those games had 100% chance to absorb magicka, which is HUGELY OP. Its fine in a standalone game but very bad in an MMO. I think if they made that one change, they could balance these skills to be useful but not unfair.

This is an intriguing idea -- that shields would only block a percentage of incoming damage. I remember reading a post some time ago about another game (DAOC maybe? idk) where shields did only block a percentage of incoming damage, and how this was a very successful system for that game.

I would be down for a test in ESO to see how such a change would affect PvP.

I am more of the opinion that abilities need entirely different PvP and PvE profiles.

LorDrek

Magsorc have 3 shields is ok, stamina builds have 1 shield after 2 years is bad.