Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

Deceptive_Yoshi · April 2016

ESO+ is great for leveling but since most of the dlc they offer don't have anything that keeps you wanting to go back thus they unsub from the game. I could see why some wouldn't want to get ESO+ unless there was a real good utility out of it and craft bags was one of the things people really wanted from ESO+.

Seraseth · April 2016

First off, I'm totally good with eso+ getting the unlimited bag for a little while to give some value to the sub model, and then adding a smaller limited version on the store for crowns for those who can't or won't buy a sub.

Between buying bank & character slot upgrades, horse upgrades, and soon to be more character slots, you *can* buy more inventory. (Yes I know it's not the same convenience level)

It's not as if non-subs are stuck with 2 character slots and the basic 60 slot inventory, while subs get max personal and bank inventory for free.

What bothers me is the feeling I get from some posters is that they say sure eso+ needs more value, but what they mean is subs need more stuff, but not anything I feel is of any value, otherwise it's unfair that I can't have it too.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't sub. I won't sub.
I want these bags, I won't have them.
I will be very jealous.

But it's OK, I think it's an excellent idea and incentive for subbers.

Thank you!

TequilaFire · April 2016

I just wish it would go back to monthly sub model and we could stop half of the BS arguments.
I know sub to PvP get rid of some lag!

KanedaSyndrome · April 2016

Well I won't be subscribing for this, as I'm already invested in the "don't sub, but buy crowns and purchase what I need"-model. If I sub now I'll end up paying double the money for everything. A crafting bag is not worth that to me.

I'll stick with my "don't sub, but buy crowns and purchase what I need"-model, since if I did sub now, I'd basically be paying 180$ a year for a crafting bag, which is not a worth while investment in my opinion. However if they made it a 30$ as a crown item, I'd be more than happy enough to send some more cash their way.

They simply shouldn't have two ways to pay for the game if they don't see those groups as equals. I guess ZoS is turning their back on one of their customer groups, the one that I'm part of. It seems our way of paying for the game isn't good enough. I've already spent hundreds of dollars on the game, and yet, I'm not a good enough customer in the eyes of ZoS.

My main problem is that I'm pretty much locked out of getting a subscription now as I've committed myself to buying what I need, via crown packs, instead of subscribing. Going sub now would make no sense as I'd be paying mainly for stuff I've already purchased. Had I never bought DLCs/customes/mounts etc, I could've considered a subscription.

newtinmpls · April 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

I think it is perfectly fair. Those who loyally give £8.99 ($14.99) a month to the game deserve a little extra perk or two and it's nice that ZOS is acknowledging that since they dropped loyalty rewards.

I'm looking forward to all that extra space in my bank!

I admit, I love the crafting bags, but as a pet-a-holic (besides being an alt-o-holic) that would also be a way to my heart.

Francis_Toliver · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Extremely disappointed they are making crafting bags sub only "perk". It's more than just a nice perk for crafters. It's the exact kind of feature that should not be implemented to sub only because then you are in a position where you feel a subscription is mandatory for your style of play and if you are subscribing then what do all the previous unlocks and DLC purchases amount to? It is a major feature that has been requested for a long damn time. Personally it frustrates me because the game itself is so loot heavy inventory management has been a constant issue since day one, and even with all the space you can currently buy/unlock you can still fill your inventory in 20 minutes of play....

Restriction and exclusivity were the principles F2P was founded on and there are still games today which embrace these qualities. ESO made a great move by going B2P and taking on the more modern approach of all carrot and no stick. While I could not compare ESO in any way to those early games this is an exclusive QoL feature and that exclusivity will not benefit ESO+ members or members. Sell it, please.

Ya paze your moneys, ya gets yourz treats

[Edited to remove insulting content]

Emma_Overload · April 2016

Seraseth wrote: »

First off, I'm totally good with eso+ getting the unlimited bag for a little while to give some value to the sub model, and then adding a smaller limited version on the store for crowns for those who can't or won't buy a sub.

Between buying bank & character slot upgrades, horse upgrades, and soon to be more character slots, you *can* buy more inventory. (Yes I know it's not the same convenience level)

It's not as if non-subs are stuck with 2 character slots and the basic 60 slot inventory, while subs get max personal and bank inventory for free.

What bothers me is the feeling I get from some posters is that they say sure eso+ needs more value, but what they mean is subs need more stuff, but not anything I feel is of any value, otherwise it's unfair that I can't have it too.

No, that's not what we're saying. There are plenty of things that ZOS could add to ESO+ that wouldn't produce the "lock in" effect of the crafting bag. For example, they could add access to the future Barber Shop in ESO+, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as controversial. You could pay the $15 for the ESO+ sub when and only when you needed to change your toon's appearance, without feeling like you needed to keep paying for the sub for eternity.

Any perk that adds inventory or character slots that disappear when you stop paying is going to be a HUGE problem, because once you start using them, you can't stop using them without losing something valuable!

Elsonso · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Players no longer have to live within the limits of the current inventory, but they must be ESO+ subscribers to do so.

Well, like I said earlier, if you think that ZOS is going to keep this exclusive to ESO Plus, I think you are talking about a different ZOS. There is little about ESO Plus that is exclusive, which is one of the problems with ESO Plus. I don't think they are going to change this. I fully expect crafting bags to be in the Crown Store. I cannot say when, but I can't see why it would not happen.

They will have the bare bones feature available for ESO Plus, but offer a version and a bundled version in the store. I definitely think this will be sold as a bundle. The bundled version will come with mimic stones, or bag space increase, or something along those lines so that the ESO Plus membership is not necessary, and so that the ESO Plus people will want to buy the bundle. This will probably be in addition to the bag-only purchase buried in some back category.

My impression is that ZOS does not want ESO Plus to be mandatory, or even preferred.

The only thing that I have trouble predicting is prices. No matter what I think, my price is always low. I am thinking 5000 Crowns for this, but it might go as high as 7500 to 10000 just because I always seem to be low.

newtinmpls · April 2016

Seraseth wrote: »

What bothers me is the feeling I get from some posters is that they say sure eso+ needs more value, but what they mean is subs need more stuff, but not anything I feel is of any value, otherwise it's unfair that I can't have it too.

You have admirably summed up what I am seeing here.

I like this game, I came into it with the "I'm gonna be paying along the while to access it" sub/mentality. When it went B2P, I seriously sat down and thought about it. Do I want to just buy the DLC and unsub? Does that save money? Would that be "better"?

I came to the conclusion that for my enjoyment of the game, trying to scrimp and work out the "best" arrangement of money/crowns and "win" took away from my enjoyment of the game. So I sub. If I see a costume that I like (rare), or a mount (rare) or a pet (slightly less rare) I buy it in the crown store. I don't count up the "price", I made a conscious choice to stop going out to see movies and I'm actually ending up spending less on entertainment per month.

I'm still having fun. So I'm still here.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

Solid_Metal wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

Lets see what will make more money?

1. a one-time purchase of 5000 crowns
or
2. a constant $15 monthly fee for ESO+

Hint: Pick #2

These bags are going to be a huge success and will get a lot more subs for the game.

Seraseth · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

No, that's not what we're saying. There are plenty of things that ZOS could add to ESO+ that wouldn't produce the "lock in" effect of the crafting bag. For example, they could add access to the future Barber Shop in ESO+, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as controversial.

You honestly think locking barber shop behind sub wouldn't have people screaming bloody murder? Something people have been asking for since day 1?

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Any perk that adds inventory or character slots that disappear when you stop paying is going to be a HUGE problem, because once you start using them, you can't stop using them without losing something valuable!

I know a few games that you lose access to character slots when you stop subbing, but that's besides the point. With the inventory bag, they've already said you'll still be able to remove stuff, just not add any more.

So by stopping your sub, you're not losing anything 'valuable', you still have all the items, you can still access them all, and they're still all taking up space outside your normal inventory, leaving you all that room free. You just can't add more to the bag. Which I think is very fair of zos.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sounds like jealousy to me, ever heard the term you get what you pay for? well your not paying for anything so you will get what you pay for which is nothing.

AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »

Welcome to first class, economy class is in the back... with the cargo.....

You get what you PAY for.

and they ain't paying so they get NOTHING!!!!

Genius, we want to pay for it.

Then sub

ThePMSBeast · April 2016

To keep ESO+ subbers and non Subbers happy they should make it free for ES0+ members..make it purchasable in the crown store AND able to bought In Game from the bag merchant for gold. That should cut out all the squabbling because everyone can have crafting bag space.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

Ya if this is ever in the store its going to cost way way more than 5000 crowns. I think thats why they just made it a ESO+ perk. A useless banker is 5000 crowns.

Solid_Metal · April 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solid_Metal wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

Lets see what will make more money?

1. a one-time purchase of 5000 crowns
or
2. a constant $15 monthly fee for ESO+

Hint: Pick #2

These bags are going to be a huge success and will get a lot more subs for the game.

are you even bother to read the follow up statement i made?

for your convinience dude

Solid_Metal wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

So you say 5k crows is fair for it? Thats TWO EXPANSIONS worth of crowns.

Just shows how powerful the craft bag is. It's hilarious that all these subs are defending its exclusivity with "it's not a big deal, only convenience!!!" when people are considering buying it for 5k crowns.

yes...

and no, its not about powerfull or not, who give a crap, its just conmvinience, pass me the blunt brah

and why i not mind paying 5k for that?, because i cant sub, and this is my previous statement

Solid_Metal wrote: »

bedlom wrote: »

No! Children suffering is unfair. You are just either cheap or poor.

cause i dont have credit card and by any means cant make it either in this 3rd world country

fml right?

if ZoS allowed us to pay eso+ with steam wallet it would be another story, but as for now they not allowed it, steam wallet only usable on buying crown, thus how i support the game

as you see, i love this game, i support it as long as i can and with the way that i can support it, sub is not an option as for now, thus why i prefer tu support them buy buying the mats bag for 5K

newtinmpls · April 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

For example, they could add access to the future Barber Shop in ESO+, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as controversial. You could pay the $15 for the ESO+ sub when and only when you needed to change your toon's appearance, without feeling like you needed to keep paying for the sub for eternity.

I'm shaking my head as I read this - I really think you have found the one item that would generate MORE spazz and chaos than bag space....Waaaay more.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Any perk that adds inventory or character slots that disappear when you stop paying is going to be a HUGE problem, because once you start using them, you can't stop using them without losing something valuable!

Well I sub right now and if I stopped, for me, IC and Wrothgar and Hew's Bane would disappear.

Tommy1979AtWar · April 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solid_Metal wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

Lets see what will make more money?

1. a one-time purchase of 5000 crowns
or
2. a constant $15 monthly fee for ESO+

Hint: Pick #2

These bags are going to be a huge success and will get a lot more subs for the game.

Personally I think they've made a boo boo, a lot of subs only do so for the month new content is released, they grind it then drop the sub, I see a lot subbing for the bag for a month and filling it with items then because you still have the option to remove items simpy unsubbing until they have a need for it again.

Successful at first yes but a flash in the pan compared to overall consistant sales of it through the crown store.

exeeter702 · April 2016

All I've gotten from this is that the OP is fundementally against subscriptions in general.

Why do I say that? Well the OP has stated many times how they support the game via crown store and dlc purchases, even to the point of claiming they spend equal if not more then a subscriber may in a month.

This makes me assume they simply do not feel the sub is worth it in general as there is nothing the sub offers to justify it. Well now there is, and if this player, who I'm going to assume has been playing for at least since the b2p transition, has been supporting the game and is willing to raise such a stink over it not being on the crown store, Im thinking it's pretty much a feature that would justify a sub to them.

Just ******* sub.

People seem to be making the argument of "what about non sub player A who has spent x amount of dollars since b2p launched? They are getting shafted!" Zos is not rewarding all players for playing and supporting the game, and thus how much a player has spent in game has nothing to do with this perk.

This perk is ZOS saying thank you to those that support the game is a concrete way, this is not some smug superiority stance, it's simply thst Zos prefers and values subscribers in that it's a much less volatile and much more reliable source of revenue and helps them plan what they can and can not do in the long run with updates and features.

ZoS wants people to sub, this is a fact, its also a fact that for alot of people (likely the OP as well) the incentive is simply not there. Adding it to the crown store will both undermine the subscription in a way as well as Zos shooting themselves in the foot. If they sell it for crowns as a one time buy, then months down the line players may once again not feel the need to subscribe since they have the perk already. This is common sense, and this is why the perk needs to be tied to the subscription.

The perk itslef is obviously not going to keep some one subscribed if they are bored of the game and want to take a break or quit, but if you are still enjoying the game entirely, the crafting bag is a nice QoL bonus that you may find you really do not want to play without, and in combination with the other bonuses just might tip would be subs to finally doing so.

It's is completely fair
It can not be a one time buy
You do NOT need it
If you like the game, just sub ffs or get over it.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

A wise old man once said..."Life is unfair"

TheValkyn · April 2016

Here's a tip. Create a guild and travel to the lowbie zones. Recruit new players that are most likely to drop the game immediately. Get sole permission to use the guild bank. Have your close friends do the same and invite you. I'm up to 1,500 slots now and I don't subscribe and I never will. This is not a game that can warrant a subscription by any means. A crafting bag doesn't hide the terrible performance (The absolute worst out of any MMORPG I play regularly), awful balance and bugs galore.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

TheValkyn wrote: »

Here's a tip. Create a guild and travel to the lowbie zones. Recruit new players that are most likely to drop the game immediately. Get sole permission to use the guild bank. I'm up to 1,500 slots now and I don't subscribe and I never will. This is not a game that can warrant a subscription by any means. A crafting bag doesn't hide the terrible performance (The absolute worst out of any MMORPG I play regularly), awful balance and bugs galore.

Even with that you still have to physically go to the bank to deposit your items. Crafting bag its automatic. Crafting bag is also unlimited. The dev guy used a word they will censor on here but basically means its unlimited storage.

Seraseth · April 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

I like this game, I came into it with the "I'm gonna be paying along the while to access it" sub/mentality. When it went B2P, I seriously sat down and thought about it. Do I want to just buy the DLC and unsub? Does that save money? Would that be "better"?

I came to the conclusion that for my enjoyment of the game, trying to scrimp and work out the "best" arrangement of money/crowns and "win" took away from my enjoyment of the game. So I sub. If I see a costume that I like (rare), or a mount (rare) or a pet (slightly less rare) I buy it in the crown store. I don't count up the "price", I made a conscious choice to stop going out to see movies and I'm actually ending up spending less on entertainment per month.

I'm still having fun. So I'm still here.

Same, I don't bother analyzing how get what I want for the least amount of money possible. I just ask myself do I enjoy this game enough to be worth $15 a mth to me to play? If yes, I sub, if no, then I'm not playing it at all.

Same for every other mmo out there with optional sub, either I'm enjoying it enough to pay for it, or I'm not playing it.

Jaronking · April 2016

You don't lose it if you unsub to people not use the dev tracker @Wrobel already said you will still have it if you unsub just won't be able to add new mats to it but still be able to remove things.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solid_Metal wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

Lets see what will make more money?

1. a one-time purchase of 5000 crowns
or
2. a constant $15 monthly fee for ESO+

Hint: Pick #2

These bags are going to be a huge success and will get a lot more subs for the game.

Personally I think they've made a boo boo, a lot of subs only do so for the month new content is released, they grind it then drop the sub, I see a lot subbing for the bag for a month and filling it with items then because you still have the option to remove items simpy unsubbing until they have a need for it again.

Successful at first yes but a flash in the pan compared to overall consistant sales of it through the crown store.

Crown store purchases of the bags will slow down after almost everyone buys them. Yes it will be a good amount of profit at the start but they will make more money if they make them an ESO+ exclusive where its a constant flow of money coming in at a steady rate.

Aimora · April 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

All I've gotten from this is that the OP is fundementally against subscriptions in general.

Why do I say that? Well the OP has stated many times how they support the game via crown store and dlc purchases, even to the point of claiming they spend equal if not more then a subscriber may in a month.

This makes me assume they simply do not feel the sub is worth it in general as there is nothing the sub offers to justify it. Well now there is, and if this player, who I'm going to assume has been playing for at least since the b2p transition, has been supporting the game and is willing to raise such a stink over it not being on the crown store, Im thinking it's pretty much a feature that would justify a sub to them.

Just ******* sub.

People seem to be making the argument of "what about non sub player A who has spent x amount of dollars since b2p launched? They are getting shafted!" Zos is not rewarding all players for playing and supporting the game, and thus how much a player has spent in game has nothing to do with this perk.

This perk is ZOS saying thank you to those that support the game is a concrete way, this is not some smug superiority stance, it's simply thst Zos prefers and values subscribers in that it's a much less volatile and much more reliable source of revenue and helps them plan what they can and can not do in the long run with updates and features.

ZoS wants people to sub, this is a fact, its also a fact that for alot of people (likely the OP as well) the incentive is simply not there. Adding it to the crown store will both undermine the subscription in a way as well as Zos shooting themselves in the foot. If they sell it for crowns as a one time buy, then months down the line players may once again not feel the need to subscribe since they have the perk already. This is common sense, and this is why the perk needs to be tied to the subscription.

The perk itslef is obviously not going to keep some one subscribed if they are bored of the game and want to take a break or quit, but if you are still enjoying the game entirely, the crafting bag is a nice QoL bonus that you may find you really do not want to play without, and in combination with the other bonuses just might tip would be subs to finally doing so.

It's is completely fair
It can not be a one time buy
You do NOT need it
If you like the game, just sub ffs or get over it.

A well written concise post

Tommy1979AtWar · April 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solid_Metal wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

stop asking for things to be handed out freely to you, especially with something like this do you really expect them to do it for free, honestly?

are you even read OP?, his not asking for free, but also make it available in crown store, 5000 crown is a fair price

Lets see what will make more money?

1. a one-time purchase of 5000 crowns
or
2. a constant $15 monthly fee for ESO+

Hint: Pick #2

These bags are going to be a huge success and will get a lot more subs for the game.

Personally I think they've made a boo boo, a lot of subs only do so for the month new content is released, they grind it then drop the sub, I see a lot subbing for the bag for a month and filling it with items then because you still have the option to remove items simpy unsubbing until they have a need for it again.

Successful at first yes but a flash in the pan compared to overall consistant sales of it through the crown store.

Crown store purchases of the bags will slow down after almost everyone buys them. Yes it will be a good amount of profit at the start but they will make more money if they make them an ESO+ exclusive where its a constant flow of money coming in at a steady rate.

Maybe, maybe not, time will tell I guess but I think the main decision behind zos having it locked behind a sub wall is projected forecast, it looks good on paper to investors when they can say "well for the months of june/july we saw an X% in rise of subs"

wildbear247 · April 2016

First, I'm really glad ZOS is now including this Crafting Bags feature that can alleviate inventory management pains. It's definitely a step in the right direction.

However, I do think all players should have the option to either get Crafting Bags via subscription or direct purchase from the Crown Store (~$30). That way folks that have to take a break from the game due to real life stuff can drop their subs and not have to play the inventory management game afterwards (e.g. mule alts). This might help the in game economy as well, assuming more people will have access to the Crafting Bags if both options exist, which means they can store and therefore sell more stuff (instead of tossing stuff due to limited inventory space).

ZOS would still profit if it gave players both options. In general, giving players more options and flexibility to enjoy ESO on their own terms is a very good thing.

clocksstoppe · April 2016

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.

Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

Woeler · April 2016

Yea, damn them for giving stuff to people that support them by paying a monthly fee!

Really OP, most things in this world cost something. Welcome to life.