Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

ManwithBeard9 · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Its totally fair. How about your support the game you love?

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

I think it's fine that it's a perk for subscribers only. C'mon, subscribers really don't get that much when you think about it; when levelled one or even all characters or skills to max, there's not much point in the XP bonus, there's also absolutely no point in the Inspiration bonus anymore after levelling all crafts to max, and in the end it's just the Crowns, but everyone else can get Crowns at any time.

That said, I maybe should also mention that I'm not a subscriber anymore myself; I was for about a year, and I'm not anymore for about another year. So I wouldn't even get those bags myself. But I think it's fair that subscribers get something worthwhile for a change.

ESO+ get the crafting bag for free, 1500 crowns per month and the other benefits.

If it was sold on the store people would have to pay for it, probably a lot, and it would not be free.

How is this mindset so pervasive, that exclusivity is some sort of benefit for ESO+ members? The only people this benefits is Zenimax because it in theory will drive up subscription numbers, which imo is a major miscalculation on their part as it will create tourists who never buy DLC, crowns or stay subbed for any length of time. The success and recovery they have experienced is most likely because of their shift in business model, shifting back toward P2P features is no good for anyone.

Up until this I was pretty sure that I would've bought every DLC they ever released until this game shut down, and probably a lot of stuff of the crown store. Now they will be lucky to get a few month of sub per year at best and zero crown purchases. The evolution of this thread has made me consider much and it is the only thing that makes sense in light of their decision to exclude crafting bags from the crown store. You also have to wonder if it will even stop here or will they exclude their B2P customers in even more ways over time? /trust broken

I have to disagree with you. They haven't excluded us in any way, shape, or form. All this over a crafting bag? I could understand if it was a BiS armor piece or weapon. Or adding a fourth jewelry slot. But a crafting bag? How is this a significant game changer for every B2P person? Inventory management isn't THAT deplorable, is it?

I put inventory space over everything. Gear, content, function, bugs, imbalance etc. I can live with just about anything in a game, but this inventory thing has been especially bad in ESO. Enough that it has kept me away from really playing this game much. Although we were told it was coming. Now it is almost here but B2P customers can't have it. My issue is not about ESO+ getting it for free, just that there will be no option to purchase it.

How do you think ESO Plus gets it for free? How is $15 plus tax a month free? The game is still B2P even when you sub. Because you only rent the DLC and when you let your sub lapse, you no longer have access to the DLC. So you then have to BUY a subscription or BUY crowns and BUY the DLC itself.

Ra'Shtar · April 2016

Just so things are clear the moment this feature got announced over 4 months ago it was set in stone that it was going to be a bonus for ESO+

FleetwoodSmack · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Its totally fair. How about your support the game you love?

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

I think it's fine that it's a perk for subscribers only. C'mon, subscribers really don't get that much when you think about it; when levelled one or even all characters or skills to max, there's not much point in the XP bonus, there's also absolutely no point in the Inspiration bonus anymore after levelling all crafts to max, and in the end it's just the Crowns, but everyone else can get Crowns at any time.

That said, I maybe should also mention that I'm not a subscriber anymore myself; I was for about a year, and I'm not anymore for about another year. So I wouldn't even get those bags myself. But I think it's fair that subscribers get something worthwhile for a change.

ESO+ get the crafting bag for free, 1500 crowns per month and the other benefits.

If it was sold on the store people would have to pay for it, probably a lot, and it would not be free.

How is this mindset so pervasive, that exclusivity is some sort of benefit for ESO+ members? The only people this benefits is Zenimax because it in theory will drive up subscription numbers, which imo is a major miscalculation on their part as it will create tourists who never buy DLC, crowns or stay subbed for any length of time. The success and recovery they have experienced is most likely because of their shift in business model, shifting back toward P2P features is no good for anyone.

Up until this I was pretty sure that I would've bought every DLC they ever released until this game shut down, and probably a lot of stuff of the crown store. Now they will be lucky to get a few month of sub per year at best and zero crown purchases. The evolution of this thread has made me consider much and it is the only thing that makes sense in light of their decision to exclude crafting bags from the crown store. You also have to wonder if it will even stop here or will they exclude their B2P customers in even more ways over time? /trust broken

I have to disagree with you. They haven't excluded us in any way, shape, or form. All this over a crafting bag? I could understand if it was a BiS armor piece or weapon. Or adding a fourth jewelry slot. But a crafting bag? How is this a significant game changer for every B2P person? Inventory management isn't THAT deplorable, is it?

I put inventory space over everything. Gear, content, function, bugs, imbalance etc. I can live with just about anything in a game, but this inventory thing has been especially bad in ESO. Enough that it has kept me away from really playing this game much. Although we were told it was coming. Now it is almost here but B2P customers can't have it. My issue is not about ESO+ getting it for free, just that there will be no option to purchase it.

Then we must be playing entirely separate games. If there's a fourth jewelry slot or a BiS piece of gear only available through subbing, THAT is P2W. Inventory management has been a non-issue for me before them and it'll continue to be a non-issue after. We were told originally that it'd be an ESO+ type of reward, at least to my knowledge. I was all "Hey, something cool for my friends who sub." That was my honest to gods reaction. My point is, not all of us 'B2P customers' care who gets it or not. It doesn't affect gameplay mechanics, it doesn't affect game content, and it certainly doesn't affect inventory spaces other than what's displaced by stuffing crafting items into the bag.

aLi3nZ · April 2016

I don't sub and likely will not sub unless by some miracle they fix the cyrodil lag. But I do think restriction is fair. Sure I want to use the crafting bag and I am dissapointed I cannot but here needs to be more reason to sub. I think all subscribers should get all constumes for free so they can chpose to spend crowns on other things like mounts and upgrades and motifs. That would be fair.

IrishGirlGamer · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Its totally fair. How about your support the game you love?

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

I think it's fine that it's a perk for subscribers only. C'mon, subscribers really don't get that much when you think about it; when levelled one or even all characters or skills to max, there's not much point in the XP bonus, there's also absolutely no point in the Inspiration bonus anymore after levelling all crafts to max, and in the end it's just the Crowns, but everyone else can get Crowns at any time.

That said, I maybe should also mention that I'm not a subscriber anymore myself; I was for about a year, and I'm not anymore for about another year. So I wouldn't even get those bags myself. But I think it's fair that subscribers get something worthwhile for a change.

ESO+ get the crafting bag for free, 1500 crowns per month and the other benefits.

If it was sold on the store people would have to pay for it, probably a lot, and it would not be free.

How is this mindset so pervasive, that exclusivity is some sort of benefit for ESO+ members? The only people this benefits is Zenimax because it in theory will drive up subscription numbers ...

I think that's the plan, sweet pea.

What amazes me is that someone can argue "non-exclusivity" and expect Zenimax to be able to keep ANY kind of subs at all. Why in the name of God would I pay $15 a month for a sub when I've already bought all the DLC I want from the crown store?!! Because (as a continuous subber since Day 1) I can assure you the other benefits are nothing to write home about.

So now Zenimax just raised the bar a bit by putting something in the sub that people will actually want - and then making it exclusive to the sub. Fair? Fairness doesn't even come into the discussion. This is a business decision and maybe the best one Zenimax has made in a long time.

IrishGirlGamer · April 2016

NM

IrishGirlGamer · April 2016

NM

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

SUBS MASTER RACE!

Gidorick · April 2016

I agree OP, inventory management is horrendous in ESO and they are essentially putting the fix behind a pay wall.

Anyway, I made a thread about this here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1

Gidorick wrote: »

So, ZOS has announced that they are considering having crafting specific inventory as an ESO+ benefit. There are many ways this can be accomplished, my suggestion is as follows:

Crafting Bags could be items that take up one inventory slot, but can be opened to reveal that bag's contents and inventory. Crafting bags can be coded so that the crafting materials for that particular bag are automatically placed in that bag if that bag is in the players inventory when they harvest the material. Alternatively, players could place their previously gained items directly in the bag.These bags could be never-full bags so players could gather as much of the craft's materials as they want or they could simply be large enough to carry one stack of each material type for that particular craft. The bags should reject any items that are not crafting materials for their specific craft.

Each craft could have their own bag that could be purchased by ESO+ members. A player wanting to carry materials for all crafts could carry a total of 6 bags (and more if more crafting types are introduced!) and they would consume a total of six spaces.

These bags could be sold in an ESO+ exclusive section of crown store that has items that are only purchasable by ESO+ members. Once a player buys the bag, it is theirs. If a player leaves ESO+, they retain full rights and use of their Crafting Bags. Only their access to buy items from the ESO+ section of the Crown Store should be restricted. Bags shouldn't be able to be sold and they should be able to be freely moved from inventory to bank.

Let's assume the bags could be sold for 1500 Crowns each (and for what they offer that is probably a pretty fair price). A player who wants to subscribe to ESO+ for one month and buys all available Crafting Bags would spend 9000 Crowns on the one month of ESO+ and six crafting bags. A player who wishes to use their ESO+ Crowns could simply stay subscribed to ESO+ for six months and their monthly allotment of crowns would pay for the bags.

The Crafting Bags should not be the only items placed in the ESO+ section of the Crown Store. There could be a wide variety of items, pets, motifs, etc that are offered only to ESO+ members. ESO+ members could even be given a period of exclusivity on certain items by putting the item in the ESO+ section prior to offering the item in the public Crown Store.

For those of who you think this sounds familiar, these thoughts were previously expressed in my ESO+ Subscription Benefits Suggestion thread and my More Bags and Encumbrance Thread.

Thoughts?

Wanderinlost · April 2016

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

I think that's the plan, sweet pea.

What amazes me is that someone can argue "non-exclusivity" and expect Zenimax to be able to keep ANY kind of subs at all. Why in the name of God would I pay $15 a month for a sub when I've already bought all the DLC I want from the crown store?!! Because (as a continuous subber since Day 1) I can assure you the other benefits are nothing to write home about.

Fine, but Zenimax just raised the bar a bit by putting something in the sub that people will actually want - and then making it exclusive to the sub. Fair? Fairness doesn't even come into the discussion. This is a business decision and maybe the best one Zenimax has made in a long time.

No the best decision they made was going B2P and this is a betrayal or at the least a reversal of that decision. All access, the crafting bag, significant crowns, and other bonuses are all very significant offerings and there is no reason they cannot add more in time. The exclusivity only alienates those of us who have been supportive because of their B2P model and the flexibility it offers. They will still get paid for the feature and they would probably price it at $50+.

How does pushing for reversion to something that failed so miserably not just for zenimax but across the industry help anyone? This is the kind of thing that will ensure lower spending from at least one customer, not to mention a great deal of bad will. That might not count for much but who knows how many others may agree once they see it for what it is.

Volkodav · April 2016

IrishGirlGamer wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ScooberSteve wrote: »

Its totally fair. How about your support the game you love?

Moonshadow66 wrote: »

I think it's fine that it's a perk for subscribers only. C'mon, subscribers really don't get that much when you think about it; when levelled one or even all characters or skills to max, there's not much point in the XP bonus, there's also absolutely no point in the Inspiration bonus anymore after levelling all crafts to max, and in the end it's just the Crowns, but everyone else can get Crowns at any time.

That said, I maybe should also mention that I'm not a subscriber anymore myself; I was for about a year, and I'm not anymore for about another year. So I wouldn't even get those bags myself. But I think it's fair that subscribers get something worthwhile for a change.

ESO+ get the crafting bag for free, 1500 crowns per month and the other benefits.

If it was sold on the store people would have to pay for it, probably a lot, and it would not be free.

How is this mindset so pervasive, that exclusivity is some sort of benefit for ESO+ members? The only people this benefits is Zenimax because it in theory will drive up subscription numbers ...

I think that's the plan, sweet pea.

What amazes me is that someone can argue "non-exclusivity" and expect Zenimax to be able to keep ANY kind of subs at all. Why in the name of God would I pay $15 a month for a sub when I've already bought all the DLC I want from the crown store?!! Because (as a continuous subber since Day 1) I can assure you the other benefits are nothing to write home about.

So now Zenimax just raised the bar a bit by putting something in the sub that people will actually want - and then making it exclusive to the sub. Fair? Fairness doesn't even come into the discussion. This is a business decision and maybe the best one Zenimax has made in a long time.

And then you said this,Gidorick:

Gidorick wrote: »

I agree OP, inventory management is horrendous in ESO and they are essentially putting the fix behind a pay wall.

Anyway, I made a thread about this here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1

Gidorick wrote: »

So, ZOS has announced that they are considering having crafting specific inventory as an ESO+ benefit. There are many ways this can be accomplished, my suggestion is as follows:

Crafting Bags could be items that take up one inventory slot, but can be opened to reveal that bag's contents and inventory. Crafting bags can be coded so that the crafting materials for that particular bag are automatically placed in that bag if that bag is in the players inventory when they harvest the material. Alternatively, players could place their previously gained items directly in the bag.These bags could be never-full bags so players could gather as much of the craft's materials as they want or they could simply be large enough to carry one stack of each material type for that particular craft. The bags should reject any items that are not crafting materials for their specific craft.

Each craft could have their own bag that could be purchased by ESO+ members. A player wanting to carry materials for all crafts could carry a total of 6 bags (and more if more crafting types are introduced!) and they would consume a total of six spaces.

These bags could be sold in an ESO+ exclusive section of crown store that has items that are only purchasable by ESO+ members. Once a player buys the bag, it is theirs. If a player leaves ESO+, they retain full rights and use of their Crafting Bags. Only their access to buy items from the ESO+ section of the Crown Store should be restricted. Bags shouldn't be able to be sold and they should be able to be freely moved from inventory to bank.

Let's assume the bags could be sold for 1500 Crowns each (and for what they offer that is probably a pretty fair price). A player who wants to subscribe to ESO+ for one month and buys all available Crafting Bags would spend 9000 Crowns on the one month of ESO+ and six crafting bags. A player who wishes to use their ESO+ Crowns could simply stay subscribed to ESO+ for six months and their monthly allotment of crowns would pay for the bags.

The Crafting Bags should not be the only items placed in the ESO+ section of the Crown Store. There could be a wide variety of items, pets, motifs, etc that are offered only to ESO+ members. ESO+ members could even be given a period of exclusivity on certain items by putting the item in the ESO+ section prior to offering the item in the public Crown Store.

For those of who you think this sounds familiar, these thoughts were previously expressed in my ESO+ Subscription Benefits Suggestion thread and my More Bags and Encumbrance Thread.

Thoughts?

Umm,which is it that you favor of your comments?
Not being snarky.Just curious.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

People must learn that life isn't fair. Subscribers are the most loyal players in the game and deserve something that nobody else can get. The 10% xp, gold, and inspiration boosts just aren't enough. Yes the DLC access and 1500 crowns are nice but ESO+ has still been lacking. These bags are the perfect benefit for us loyal customers. We deserve these more than anything and putting them in the crown store would make it a pointless ESO+ benefit. This is not P2W either as some have suggested. Explain to me how having more space for crafting mats gives me an advantage over you. If you want crafting bags then subscribe plain and simple. If you cannot afford to pay a monthly subscription then tough luck. Those of you who can afford it and don't currently have a sub will most likely end up getting one. If not, then that is your choice.

Gidorick · April 2016

The thing I find funny is people keep mentioning the $15... everyone who is defending this practice. Please read the following sentence:

It's not about the money, it's about the principle.

This is a VERY important point to understand. @Wanderinlost explains this very plainly in the OP.

Putting this behind the subscription, almost makes the subscription mandatory and that is just outright sleazy business practices. One that shows us that ZOS is more concerned with making money than actually developing ESO in a meaningful way.

Now, I completely agree that ESO+ needs better sub benefits... In fact back in February 2015 I made this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1

In that thread I suggest many ESO+ benefits they could add.

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO PLUS SUGGESTED LIST OF BENNEFITS
10% Public Crown Store discount: This would entice players to buy more as subscribers!

Ownership of DLC as Loyalty Bonuses over time If DLC pack 1 costs $45 require players be subscribed for a TOTAL of 4 non-consecutive months to own this DLC. If DLC pack 2 costs $30, require players be subscribed for an additional 3 months (7) to own this DLC. The total cost of the months subscribed should be MORE than the cost of the DLC. Players shouldn't lose access to these owned DLC if they unsubscribe.

Able to join up to 10 Guilds Players who subscribe should be able to join more guilds than those who do not. The additional guilds should be under the "subscriber guilds" and should be clear as to which the player will loose access to if they unsubscribe.

+4 Additional Character slots Players should have access to an additional 4 character slots, which they loose access to if they unsubscribe.

Priority queuing when entering game and zoning: Subscribers should be at the front of the line to get into the game and to move from one area to another.

Access to a subscriber-exclusive area of the Crown Store. In a special subscriber-only area of the crown store players will still have to buy items with Crowns but the 10% Subscriber discount should NOT apply to these items. ALL players should be able to view the Subscriber Crown Store, but only Subscribers should be able to buy from it. Additionally, this could include the following 3 features.
1 month early access to all Costumes and Mounts: Giving a month's early access to Costumes and Mounts will do a lot to make subscriptions desirable. Subscribers who buy these items early will not get the 10% crown store discount.

5 day early access to all DLC expansions: Giving 5 days early access will entice players who feel like they must play the newest content right away won't be able to resist subscribing!

Longer access to limited time items: ZOS could add limited sale items to the ESO+ section of the crown store one week early... and take them out one week later.

More frequent Limited Item Rotation: If ZOS is planning to have a specific item only available one time a year in the Crown Store, it could be available one additional time per year in the ESO+ section of the crown store.

Ability to purchase the Pledge of Mara: Only in the Subscriber Crown Store should the Pledge of Mara be able to be purchased.

Monthly Subscriber Treasure Maps: Each month, Subscribers should get at least 1 map (1 in each faction would be nice) that leads players to treasures. These treasures could include special subscriber items.

So... benefits COULD be added that give players perks and bonuses but don't make it so that an integral part of the game that is flawed can ONLY be fixed through a subscription.

The fact is, most people defending this are likely subbing anyway and aren't looking at this objectively. They are just thinking "Hey... this is good for me!" and their thought stops there. This needs to be viewed from an outside perspective. Who does this benefit most? Players or ZOS?

The answer, of course, is ZOS, and that's the problem.

It's not a symbiotic benefit (like those I suggested above), it's a parasitic benefit. It's ZOS making us depend on them through the subscription for a fix to a problem they created in the first place.

ManwithBeard9 · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

The thing I find funny is people keep mentioning the $15... everyone who is defending this practice. Please read the following sentence:

It's not about the money, it's about the principle.

This is a VERY important point to understand. @Wanderinlost explains this very plainly in the OP.

Putting this behind the subscription, almost makes the subscription mandatory and that is just outright sleazy business practices. One that shows us that ZOS is more concerned with making money than actually developing ESO in a meaningful way.

Now, I completely agree that ESO+ needs better sub benefits... In fact back in February 2015 I made this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1

In that thread I suggest many ESO+ benefits they could add.

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO PLUS SUGGESTED LIST OF BENNEFITS
10% Public Crown Store discount: This would entice players to buy more as subscribers!

Ownership of DLC as Loyalty Bonuses over time If DLC pack 1 costs $45 require players be subscribed for a TOTAL of 4 non-consecutive months to own this DLC. If DLC pack 2 costs $30, require players be subscribed for an additional 3 months (7) to own this DLC. The total cost of the months subscribed should be MORE than the cost of the DLC. Players shouldn't lose access to these owned DLC if they unsubscribe.

Able to join up to 10 Guilds Players who subscribe should be able to join more guilds than those who do not. The additional guilds should be under the "subscriber guilds" and should be clear as to which the player will loose access to if they unsubscribe.

+4 Additional Character slots Players should have access to an additional 4 character slots, which they loose access to if they unsubscribe.

Priority queuing when entering game and zoning: Subscribers should be at the front of the line to get into the game and to move from one area to another.

Access to a subscriber-exclusive area of the Crown Store. In a special subscriber-only area of the crown store players will still have to buy items with Crowns but the 10% Subscriber discount should NOT apply to these items. ALL players should be able to view the Subscriber Crown Store, but only Subscribers should be able to buy from it. Additionally, this could include the following 3 features.
1 month early access to all Costumes and Mounts: Giving a month's early access to Costumes and Mounts will do a lot to make subscriptions desirable. Subscribers who buy these items early will not get the 10% crown store discount.

5 day early access to all DLC expansions: Giving 5 days early access will entice players who feel like they must play the newest content right away won't be able to resist subscribing!

Longer access to limited time items: ZOS could add limited sale items to the ESO+ section of the crown store one week early... and take them out one week later.

More frequent Limited Item Rotation: If ZOS is planning to have a specific item only available one time a year in the Crown Store, it could be available one additional time per year in the ESO+ section of the crown store.

Ability to purchase the Pledge of Mara: Only in the Subscriber Crown Store should the Pledge of Mara be able to be purchased.

Monthly Subscriber Treasure Maps: Each month, Subscribers should get at least 1 map (1 in each faction would be nice) that leads players to treasures. These treasures could include special subscriber items.

So... benefits COULD be added that give players perks and bonuses but don't make it so that an integral part of the game that is flawed can ONLY be fixed through a subscription.

There will NEVER be an equivalent to the ESO Plus infinite crafting bag in the crown store. The may add a limited amount bag, say 50 slots, to the crown store or just make it increase the size of buyable bank space with in game gold. But the infinite craft bag will stay as an ESO Plus benefit. If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Beowulf_McCallum · April 2016

NM, this doesn't work well from my phone

Gidorick · April 2016

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

ManwithBeard9 · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

Aw,so nice of you to remove my comments regarding ESO from your quote. You want infinite crafting bags, subscribe. If you dont want to subscribe, wait for the limited size bag in the crown store. Still not good enough, you can deal with it or quit. Plenty of options, all your choice.

Annalyse · April 2016

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

There will NEVER be an equivalent to the ESO Plus infinite crafting bag in the crown store. The may add a limited amount bag, say 50 slots, to the crown store or just make it increase the size of buyable bank space with in game gold. But the infinite craft bag will stay as an ESO Plus benefit. If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

I'd be completely happy with that! I do think that subbing should be the only way to get infinite space, but I hope they will put a smaller version or bank upgrade in the store for those of us that can't sub.

Volkodav · April 2016

Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

. They chose to make ESO B2P and sell DLC and now a year later they take a step back towards P2P.

No. They chose to make ESO B2P with an optional sub. Stop playing down the ever present subscription. You oversimplify the argument shining your spotlight on a b2p transition and leaving that sub in the dark. The sub had always needed further incentivization, which is finally on its way I just might start my sub up again now

Its the other way around.Subs were first,then came the "option" to B2P.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

The funny thing is you guys are so sure this is going to benefit Zenimax. I have been doing the math. Since B2P Ive spent an average of $20 per month on crowns. Now if I have to subscribe to get such a feature I will simply reduce what I put into it. I will sub for 2 months per year, access all the DLC, and forgo the other 10 months of the year for any substantial play. That $20 average is now about $3 per month.

Maybe Zenimax will make more money maybe they won't. But exclusivity does not offer a single benefit to the subscriber. You are getting the bag regardless along with your other benefits.

I was actually impressed with the ESO+ before this, mainly because of the generous crown stipend, I saw value in making a subscription if I expected to be playing a significant amount of time. However it was optional and I knew I would not feel like it was something I needed to pay to enjoy the game. Now they are putting a great feature they have been promising for years behind it.

Gidorick · April 2016

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

Aw,so nice of you to remove my comments regarding ESO from your quote. You want infinite crafting bags, subscribe. If you dont want to subscribe, wait for the limited size bag in the crown store. Still not good enough, you can deal with it or quit. Plenty of options, all your choice.

My post was only referring to only the part I quoted. Telling someone to go elsewhere isn't very productive... but you seem willing to actually discuss this @ManwithBeard9 , so yay!

As far as I know And they have never said they are going to release limited space bags in the crown store. Honestly... if they announce that. I'll stop complaining about this ESO+ perk. If I am able to buy as many limited bag-spaces as I would like outside of the subscription, I would be happy. I am perfectly fine with benefits @ManwithBeard9 , but I'm not fine with shoddy gameplay design only getting fixed through a subscription.

In my More Bags and Encumbrance thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1) I suggested the following:

Gidorick wrote: »

Bag Suggestions
No-Restriction Inventory Bags: These bags provide a set number of inventory spaces. These bags should, by default, fall under the Miscellaneous Category and maybe players should be allowed to "assign" a category to the bag so that the bag appears in that inventory tab.
Large Backpack (2000 Crowns): Provides 30 Inventory Spaces

Medium Backpack (1500 Crowns): Provides 25 inventory spaces

Small Backpack (1000 Crowns): Provides 20 inventory spaces

Heavy Sack (750 Crowns): Provides 15 inventory spaces

Sack (500 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Small Sack (250 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

Lock-Boxes: These little portable lock-boxes are for players who would like a way to prevent themselves from accidentally selling or deconstructing items. Placing an item in a lockbox will keep it safe!
Locked Box (1000 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Locked Purse (500 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

So I am completely fine paying for inventory space. I would even be ok with the infinite bags being an ESO+ perk. I made this point in the thread An idea for how "Crafting Bags" could be implemented for ESO+ members
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1 as long as non-subscribers can pay for similar perks as well.

I just loathe that an "efficient inventory" is being held hostage behind ESO+. Sub benefits should be items that enhance the game, not items that are required for efficient gameplay.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2016

I still disagree. It doesn't make subscription 'almost' mandatory. It's a crafting bag. Not a Scimitar of Baron Slaying +3 worth a million gold. And for the record, my defense of ZoS's decision is based on me being a non-sub. What difference would it make for me, who has a certain way of inventory management? Unless you're crafting EVERY single food item out there, why is it an issue? Because of traits? I hold all my trait stones on my dedicated crafter.

I keep only the food ingredients I need for writs, myself, and Ambrosia in the bank. Enchanting? Only the tiers of enchantments I need. With VR removal around the bend, I won't need lowbie runes anymore unless I'm leveling up an alt. And even then I regear once after every 15 levels? So I buy what I need from a guild store or see if it's in my guild bank. Potions? All my ingredients are in there and I only use those for Trials, PvP, vCoA/vEH/vWGT/vICP. What on NIRN are you sticking in your bank that presents this much outrage? I mean, I'm a hoarder (I have several armor sets, stolen goods, and sieges just collecting dust on top of what's in my bank) and I have no issues.

TL;DR: This non-sub is excited that their crafting friends who sub gets this bag.

Volkodav · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

The funny thing is you guys are so sure this is going to benefit Zenimax. I have been doing the math. Since B2P Ive spent an average of $20 per month on crowns. Now if I have to subscribe to get such a feature I will simply reduce what I put into it. I will sub for 2 months per year, access all the DLC, and forgo the other 10 months of the year for any substantial play. That $20 average is now about $3 per month.

Maybe Zenimax will make more money maybe they won't. But exclusivity does not offer a single benefit to the subscriber. You are getting the bag regardless along with your other benefits.

I was actually impressed with the ESO+ before this, mainly because of the generous crown stipend, I saw value in making a subscription if I expected to be playing a significant amount of time. However it was optional and I knew I would not feel like it was something I needed to pay to enjoy the game. Now they are putting a great feature they have been promising for years behind it.

I do understand your thoughts here.However,can you say for sure that every other person will pay that amount every month for crowns,..for ZOS making better amounts of money in this manner? It seems that ZOS really does want more subscribers,and this is what's going on with the bags,rather than just a loyalty thing. I can understand that as well.
Perhaps in the long run they will offer limited bags in the crowns store.Bags that arent infinite space bags.
While I cant wait for the bags,as a long time permanent subscriber,..all this fuss would be better spent on complaining about other problems ingame that so many people seem to have.

DaveMoeDee · April 2016

I don't sub, but I have zero sympathy for people losing out by not subbing. The game was launched with the intent of being a subscription game. The fact that you can play if for less is something to be grateful for. But the standard should be the sub.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

.all this fuss would be better spent on complaining about other problems ingame that so many people seem to have.

So much this. Sooooo soooo much this. I mean when's the last time we seen deer in Cyrodiil? =/ RIP.

ManwithBeard9 · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

Aw,so nice of you to remove my comments regarding ESO from your quote. You want infinite crafting bags, subscribe. If you dont want to subscribe, wait for the limited size bag in the crown store. Still not good enough, you can deal with it or quit. Plenty of options, all your choice.

My post was only referring to only the part I quoted. Telling someone to go elsewhere isn't very productive... but you seem willing to actually discuss this @ManwithBeard9 , so yay!

As far as I know And they have never said they are going to release limited space bags in the crown store. Honestly... if they announce that. I'll stop complaining about this ESO+ perk. If I am able to buy as many limited bag-spaces as I would like outside of the subscription, I would be happy. I am perfectly fine with benefits @ManwithBeard9 , but I'm not fine with shoddy gameplay design only getting fixed through a subscription.

In my More Bags and Encumbrance thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1) I suggested the following:

Gidorick wrote: »

Bag Suggestions
No-Restriction Inventory Bags: These bags provide a set number of inventory spaces. These bags should, by default, fall under the Miscellaneous Category and maybe players should be allowed to "assign" a category to the bag so that the bag appears in that inventory tab.
Large Backpack (2000 Crowns): Provides 30 Inventory Spaces

Medium Backpack (1500 Crowns): Provides 25 inventory spaces

Small Backpack (1000 Crowns): Provides 20 inventory spaces

Heavy Sack (750 Crowns): Provides 15 inventory spaces

Sack (500 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Small Sack (250 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

Lock-Boxes: These little portable lock-boxes are for players who would like a way to prevent themselves from accidentally selling or deconstructing items. Placing an item in a lockbox will keep it safe!
Locked Box (1000 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Locked Purse (500 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

So I am completely fine paying for inventory space. I would even be ok with the infinite bags being an ESO+ perk. I made this point in the thread An idea for how "Crafting Bags" could be implemented for ESO+ members
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1 as long as non-subscribers can pay for similar perks as well.

I just loathe that an "efficient inventory" is being held hostage behind ESO+. Sub benefits should be items that enhance the game, not items that are required for efficient gameplay.

It is kinda odd, seeing as how many people have been able to play efficiently and horde efficiently without crafting bags up to this point. Crafting bags are no way a REQUIREMENT for efficient gameplay. There are people that never even begin the crafting part of the game and find it better to just pay people gold to craft whatever they need. And when you have up to 8 characters on an account and can routinely purchase more accounts for around $20 when the game is on sale on Steam and other sites, makes the "required" part moot, even more so if youre willing to buy them in the crown store. So you can have another 8 characters that can be pure mules and nothing else. Imagine that.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2016

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

Aw,so nice of you to remove my comments regarding ESO from your quote. You want infinite crafting bags, subscribe. If you dont want to subscribe, wait for the limited size bag in the crown store. Still not good enough, you can deal with it or quit. Plenty of options, all your choice.

My post was only referring to only the part I quoted. Telling someone to go elsewhere isn't very productive... but you seem willing to actually discuss this @ManwithBeard9 , so yay!

As far as I know And they have never said they are going to release limited space bags in the crown store. Honestly... if they announce that. I'll stop complaining about this ESO+ perk. If I am able to buy as many limited bag-spaces as I would like outside of the subscription, I would be happy. I am perfectly fine with benefits @ManwithBeard9 , but I'm not fine with shoddy gameplay design only getting fixed through a subscription.

In my More Bags and Encumbrance thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1) I suggested the following:

Gidorick wrote: »

Bag Suggestions
No-Restriction Inventory Bags: These bags provide a set number of inventory spaces. These bags should, by default, fall under the Miscellaneous Category and maybe players should be allowed to "assign" a category to the bag so that the bag appears in that inventory tab.
Large Backpack (2000 Crowns): Provides 30 Inventory Spaces

Medium Backpack (1500 Crowns): Provides 25 inventory spaces

Small Backpack (1000 Crowns): Provides 20 inventory spaces

Heavy Sack (750 Crowns): Provides 15 inventory spaces

Sack (500 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Small Sack (250 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

Lock-Boxes: These little portable lock-boxes are for players who would like a way to prevent themselves from accidentally selling or deconstructing items. Placing an item in a lockbox will keep it safe!
Locked Box (1000 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Locked Purse (500 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

So I am completely fine paying for inventory space. I would even be ok with the infinite bags being an ESO+ perk. I made this point in the thread An idea for how "Crafting Bags" could be implemented for ESO+ members
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1 as long as non-subscribers can pay for similar perks as well.

I just loathe that an "efficient inventory" is being held hostage behind ESO+. Sub benefits should be items that enhance the game, not items that are required for efficient gameplay.

It is kinda odd, seeing as how many people have been able to play efficiently and horde efficiently without crafting bags up to this point. Crafting bags are no way a REQUIREMENT for efficient gameplay. There are people that never even begin the crafting part of the game and find it better to just pay people gold to craft whatever they need. And when you have up to 8 characters on an account and can routinely purchase more accounts for around $20 when the game is on sale on Steam and other sites, makes the "required" part moot, even more so if youre willing to buy them in the crown store. So you can have another 8 characters that can be pure mules and nothing else. Imagine that.

But! But! What about their immersion?!

Gidorick · April 2016

Well, @IndyWendieGo , you're one of the few non-subbed that think this is fine. That is why I said "most" in my comment, because there are ALWAYS exceptions.

I do think ZOS is gong to see a huge uptick in subscription numbers once these are released. Heck, I have a friend who quit ESO because he was tired of having to spend 30 minutes of every play session shuffling about his inventory. I told him about this and he is thinking of coming back.

So, it's an effective strategy. Then again, so is subluminal messaging. Effective doesn't equal ethical.

DDemon · April 2016

Why not have the craft bag in a rental form? Non ESO+ members pay a moderate weekly/monthly fee in order to use the crafting bag and ESO+ members don't have to.

I am currently running ESO+ but I buy all my DLC's as I don't need the little extra ESO+ offers, so I sometimes let it lapse, hence the bought DLC's, so I can still play all the content. This crafting bag is something I always wanted to see added, but if it's limited to ESO+ I won't have access to it whenever I want.

I think the rent for a crafting bag would be a good compromise, and for me would mean I could bridge those moments where I don't run ESO+.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

It's not a symbiotic benefit (like those I suggested above), it's a parasitic benefit. It's ZOS making us depend on them through the subscription for a fix to a problem they created in the first place.

This style of monetization is how the industry started F2P in the early days. Restriction after restriction. One of the worst is SWTOR, which still to this days has some of the most heinous and draconian rules in effect with the credit cap being the worst. Now the crafting bag is one thing, and it isn't game breaking, but it is pretty big for some of us who have been waiting years.

One of the main reason I have been behind this game even though I do not play it much is because it has embraced the new ways of all carrot and no stick. I have given it praise when given the chance, although this is a major step in the wrong direction and for me a personal let-down.