Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

jcasini222ub17_ESO · April 2016

I wouldnt worry too much, I have a deep feeling they'll appear eventually in the crown store. Cant see not double dipping on revenue streams. Bags for subscribers allowed on all characters- bags purchaseable for 2k crowns can only be used on character purchased. Something like that, think it was mentioned earlier.

I'd imagine you lose the bag if you stop subbing, so yea my gut says it'll hit the crown store. Remember this forum was majority no to the b2p switch, then we were told the 'community wants the game to be b2p'. So if your really dead set on making ZoS move blow up fb, reddit, twitter (are there others? Im a 28 year old social media luddite o well)

The senche mount was reskinned a bunch after the initial 'hey heres your reward for subscribing'.

Svalinn · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

or do not get access to a very important feature.

This is the problem of the whole situation.. people refuse to realise that crafting bags are NOT, in any form, a "very important feature" in the game.

They're completely optional.. if you actually play the game in time you'll have enough inventory space to store everything and even have free slots even without it.

It is NOT a very important feature.

Wait let me repeat this:

"it is NOT a very important feature" in the game.. it's only a convenience item everyone can live without

clocksstoppe · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

Extra crafting space is in no way pay to win, not by any stretch of imagination.

Can you please identify the location of "pay to win" in the OP? You have no idea what this thread is about.

edit: either you are lying or L2quote

Svalinn · April 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Can you please identify the location of "pay to win" in the OP? You have no idea what this thread is about.

It's not the OP, it's just that some other users that seems like not have any idea what pay to win is, answered the op stating that the bag is P2W or that this bag in the CS means that the game will become P2W

dimensional · April 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Extra crafting space is in no way pay to win, not by any stretch of imagination.

Can you please identify the location of "pay to win" in the OP? You have no idea what this thread is about.

Wasn't referring to the OP, if I was I would have said so. Read the whole thread, starting with the first page.

Svalinn wrote: »

It's not the OP, it's just that some other users that seems like not have any idea what pay to win is, answered the op stating that the bag is P2W or that this bag in the CS means that the game will become P2W

Thank you.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

or do not get access to a very important feature.

This is the problem of the whole situation.. people refuse to realise that crafting bags are NOT, in any form, a "very important feature" in the game.

They're completely optional.. if you actually play the game in time you'll have enough inventory space to store everything and even have free slots even without it.

It is NOT a very important feature.

Wait let me repeat this:

"it is NOT a very important feature" in the game.. it's only a convenience item everyone can live without

It is not important to you, but I have been waiting for a long time and it is important to me. More important than DLC, more important than pretty much any other feature implemented so far or on the horizon. Why is it more important? Playing this game as a crafter and provisioner is nearly intolerable. More before I maxed my bank and inventory, but still it is a constant chore not to get backed up, and I usually end up dumping/vendoring half the stuff I would rather be using.

dimensional · April 2016

He didn't say it wasn't important *to* you. He said is isn't an important feature in the game, as in it is not an integral moving part of the machine that this game runs on and it wouldn't break the game if some had access to it and others didn't. That is a different assessment altogether.

PURPLE245 · April 2016

who cares about a crafting bag we have been crafting for 2 years without them whats going to change......

Slurg · April 2016

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

I wouldnt worry too much, I have a deep feeling they'll appear eventually in the crown store. Cant see not double dipping on revenue streams. Bags for subscribers allowed on all characters- bags purchaseable for 2k crowns can only be used on character purchased. Something like that, think it was mentioned earlier.
'.

This would make a ton more sense than turning away their B2P customers' money after they changed the payment model for them.

LBxFinalDeath · April 2016

On this side we have "This is not fair that subs get this and we don't." by people who prolly won't ever get a sub no matter what.

On the other side we have "Not enough perks to justify buying sub." by people who have bought sub and are asked if others should get it and the like.

I personally say crafting bags and more should be for sub only to incentivize it.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

He didn't say it wasn't important *to* you. He said is isn't an important feature in the game, as in it is not an integral moving part of the machine that this game runs on and it wouldn't break the game if some had access to it and others didn't. That is a different assessment altogether.

My point was that for me the game was more or less broken without it and will continue to be broken. I have dealt with it, and it is a non stop headache for my style of play. So it will provided much needed relief for some but not all.

He is wrong though. It is not an option. ESO+ doesn't get to choose and neither does B2P. The only option here is to switch to ESO+, which is a major problem and an unreasonable expectation after a year of them pushing DLC. They chose to make ESO B2P and sell DLC and now a year later they take a step back towards P2P.

Flaminir · April 2016

OP.... all the arguments around what people may or may not have paid in the past are moot, ZoS have to look forward, and there is a very good reason that I suspect they are doing this...

The B2P model came around for a few reasons... so ZoS were then reliant on all the micro transactions in the crown store etc.

The trouble with reliance on microtransactions is that they aren't consistent and can't be relied upon or planned for effectively....

Its like working on a commission only basis on your own day to day job. You may do very well some months, but that uncertainty over what you will earn is a problem on a large scale... especially when planning future developments & investment with shareholders.

SOOOO... ZoS will benefit from getting as many people signed up to a regular subscription.. this provides them with confirmed, consistent, and forecast-able revenue.... essential for a busines stheir size, and allows them to invest in future development safe in the knowledge they have income to cover it.

Crafting bags are an excellent choice for them to do this. current sub benefits weren't great... crafting bags are wanted by almost everybody, but are in no way essential to play the game, and don't increase your effectiveness in any direct way. But they will certainly increase their subscriber base again.

This is why I don't believe they will go to the crown store... It's not about just making more money in anyway possible as most here are suggesting... the whole point is that ZoS WANT you to go on a sub so they have predictable & forecastable revenue streams. So its not just the money.. it's HOW they get it that's important here.

Svalinn · April 2016

deleted because of wrong quoting

ContraTempo · April 2016

BTW, one effect of this that I haven't seen anyone mention is that prices in the guild stores will rise. This is especially true of mats but everything should go up as there will be more inventory space to store things.

I know most of my sales of mats have been motivated by a need to clear out inventory, and sometimes that is at a very low price. But if I never have to sell off mats again the price will have to rise enough motivate me to go rummaging in my crafting bag for stuff to sell.

And if mats aren't taking up 80% of my bank? Yeah, if the price of that Shadow Dancer armor is too low I'll just hang on to that until there's some real money to be made.

My guess is that prices will rise to the level we saw last summer.

Svalinn · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

He didn't say it wasn't important *to* you. He said is isn't an important feature in the game, as in it is not an integral moving part of the machine that this game runs on and it wouldn't break the game if some had access to it and others didn't. That is a different assessment altogether.

thanks

brandon · April 2016

It's absolutely fair. People who aren't cheap should be rewarded for their loyalty. It's ridiculous that people think they deserve everything when they aren't willing to give back.

tinythinker · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

He didn't say it wasn't important *to* you. He said is isn't an important feature in the game, as in it is not an integral moving part of the machine that this game runs on and it wouldn't break the game if some had access to it and others didn't. That is a different assessment altogether.

My point was that for me the game was more or less broken without it and will continue to be broken. I have dealt with it, and it is a non stop headache for my style of play. So it will provided much needed relief for some but not all.

He is wrong though. It is not an option. ESO+ doesn't get to choose and neither does B2P. The only option here is to switch to ESO+, which is a major problem and an unreasonable expectation after a year of them pushing DLC. They chose to make ESO B2P and sell DLC and now a year later they take a step back towards P2P.

Or, they looked at the sales figures, the complaints from subbers and ex-subbers about the lack of value to ESO+, and at how many people realized they could get what they wanted by not subbing or only subbing a few times a year, then came up with something that is a convenience feature to use as an extra perk along with going back to things like loyalty reward pets. The game started with waaaaaaay less bank and inventory space, and people kept playing. They've boosted those, people keep playing. The game isn't broken. You rationales have been addressed but you basically just really want that bag. You can keep claiming "unfair" as long as you like, but that doesn't make it so nor will it get you the bag.

As others have pointed out, if you can "buy" an infinite bag, it loses its value as a reason to sub. Unless you sell it for 10,000 crowns, which non-subbers who want it would still complain about as an outrageous price. My guess, that I've posted elsewhere, is that if they want to give a bag option for non-subbers there will be some option to buy a single account-wide bag for a hefty sum, but it won't be limitless. It will be more or less like a large bank upgrade, but not so big that too many people will feel the need not to sub. Maybe a 75-125 item bag.

But then again they don't really need to do so, because if you want to buy extra space, they are also going to be selling extra character slots, so you can purchase a couple of those in the Crown store and spend gold at the bag merchants and the stables getting another 200 spaces each for your account. In the end, you can still get your extra space, you will just have to have enough in-game gold. If you don't want to wait for the daily mount training or don't have enough gold, the Crown Store has you covered with bag space upgrades and mount upgrades for carrying capacity. In other words, you can grab a ton of space quick in the Crown Store when Dark Brotherhood hits. Those who want to simply sub instead have that option as well.

mtwiggz · April 2016

ESO+ needs more features to make it worthwhile. I wont say that crafting bags to ESO+ is the best way to go, but at least its something. Currently paying for ESO+ is nearly pointless, would cost nearly the same amount of money to just buy DLCs. Unless you're a mount/pet/costume hoarder, then the subscription is somewhat beneficial.

dimensional · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

He didn't say it wasn't important *to* you. He said is isn't an important feature in the game, as in it is not an integral moving part of the machine that this game runs on and it wouldn't break the game if some had access to it and others didn't. That is a different assessment altogether.

thanks

NP, but the guy somehow continues to insist that the game is broken for him without said bags. Don't even know how to address that.

Svalinn · April 2016

dimensional wrote: »

Svalinn wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

He didn't say it wasn't important *to* you. He said is isn't an important feature in the game, as in it is not an integral moving part of the machine that this game runs on and it wouldn't break the game if some had access to it and others didn't. That is a different assessment altogether.

thanks

NP, but the guy somehow continues to insist that the game is broken for him without said bags. Don't even know how to address that.

Well... i jut decided to stop anwering to that kind of claims because they're very likely to become flames whichever answer you give :P

Sigma957 · April 2016

I've been subbing since the beginning and buy extra crowns if i need them I think its awesome for those that sub are getting something in return for their loyalty.

ADarklore · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

You are getting the crafting bags for free, for something you are already paying. A B2P customer will have to spend a substantial fee to access them.

A substantial fee? You paid the same price as a single-player game and yet you expect to receive years worth of gaming for ZERO additional support?!? Sure B2P helps repay the initial game development investment costs, but what about the on-going day to day overhead costs, continue development, etc? This isn't a single-player game, it has significant on-going costs involved with continuation of the game... these costs are paid for by subscribers and Crown Store purchases. Many subscribers have dropped subscriptions because they felt there was no value (personally I disagree with that), so in order to bring those subscribers back and maintain current subscribers, ZOS is trying to find ways to add additional value to subscriptions. Like I said, subscribers and Crown Store purchases are what pays for on-going game-related costs, not the players who only buy the game but never contribute anything further to help pay the costs to maintain the game. So why should those players who aren't helping maintain the game be offered something extra? They paid for the BASE game, anything extra is, well... EXTRA.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2016

Really ? The whole reason they are adding crafting bags to begin with is to add something more to ESO+. What the 100s of "We want more to ESO+" threads wasn't enough proof that there's not point to ESO+ ?

magnusthorek · April 2016

"ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

I am pretty much sure that you dont buy the DLC to support the game but just for the sake of being able to play DLC.

Yes and no. New content is good but the lack of quality recently doesn't fit exactly the pleasure of paying for them. But a purchase is a purchase, regardless the motive, it's money for the company and it's supportive anyways.

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

The motives do not come to us for free. Most people such as me just farm it the normal way. It makes me laugh that you think all subs are richie riches tho. I am currently unemployed looking for work
And stop being jealous because of the pets and costumes, we all know you want them real bad.

I never said you didn't go the hard way. I did that too. If I say about "richness" (broaden the concept, it's not literal) it's purely based upon exchange rates country-to-country. If subbers didn't get any crowns back I would be truly respecful, but you (or they) get a *** ton for free.

And I never liked the concept of pets. It's disturbing having something following me. I bought a costume recently with the surplus invested in the epic failure of TG DLC I paid 125 bucks for (see the reason of my frustration?) and it's not even THAT great

Masstershake · April 2016

brandon wrote: »

It's absolutely fair. People who aren't cheap should be rewarded for their loyalty. It's ridiculous that people think they deserve everything when they aren't willing to give back.

So if say i spend 100 a month on crowns and just 1 time unlock things how is that being cheap and not giving back.

Seriously the oh i sub, you dont, therefore i give more than you so i deserve stuff u cant get crap is just getting stupid

Wanderinlost · April 2016

brandon wrote: »

It's absolutely fair. People who aren't cheap should be rewarded for their loyalty. It's ridiculous that people think they deserve everything when they aren't willing to give back.

1 year of ESO+ gets 18,000 crowns to be spent freely for about $190 annual
B2P gets 22,0000 crowns for $200

The people who have spent the past year buying DLC are getting screwed if they are forced to change to ESO+ in order to get a major QoL feature at this point. All those crowns could have been spent on anything else.

This argument that non-subscribers are cheap or less of customers is absurd, petty, and elitist. You are not special, and ESO+ does not make you more loyal than other customers. You get clear benefits and crowns for your preffered method of payment as do B2P customers. B2P customers have chosen to pay a different way, because that is one of the ways Beth has marketed and sold this game to us. ESO+ are the ones who are getting something for free here, I am only asking that as a paying customer who has been supporting this game through microtransactions be given the same option for this feature as everyone else.

Ajaxduo · April 2016

You don't like it? Simple. Don't pay for it. ESO+ needed more benefits and it's getting exactly that.

Talyena · April 2016

Just sub for a month every time your crafting supplies pile up. You get 1500 crowns and you can dump all your crafting supplies into the bag where they can be taken out as needed.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

I am not saying that ESO+ should not get the bag, but why should us who have supported this game through buy to play be given the same option, to buy the crafting bag with crowns.

You know why. ESO + is 15 dollars a month. Honestly if you cant part with that every month then maybe stop whining about someone getting this because they are willing and capable.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

Ajaxduo wrote: »

You don't like it? Simple. Don't pay for it. ESO+ needed more benefits and it's getting exactly that.

How does the crafting bag being purchasable in the crown store deprive ESO+ of that benefit?