Wanderinlost wrote: »Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »All these arguments tend to boil down to a common essence. Animosity towards/ hatred of subscriptions. I ask, why does a subscriber not deserve some recompense for their monthly payment? When others could refuse to pay another cent past the box price and still continue to play... Surely you don't think subscriptions should be just a monthly charitable contribution, do you? Let them be rewarded a little something extra. They deserve it.
You are getting the crafting bags for free, for something you are already paying. A B2P customer will have to spend a substantial fee to access them. This isn't about hating the sub, if anything it is about subbers feeling they are somehow more deserving. I have no problem with ESO+ now, when I get crowns sometimes I get them though ESO+, especially if I know my playtime will warrant it, but I choose one time purchases over a sub because of a lower playtime and the flexibility it offers.
I pay to play and you just want everything for free
I'm serious and because I am aware that it's not a pay-to-win that I wrote that:at first i wanted to just laugh at this.. then i've been thinking of just asking you if you're serious or just joking, then i just gave up and wrote everything that came to mind because i'm kind of sure that wathever i might answer to this would be received either as an insult or as a "making fun of you" kind of post and i really don't want that... but yeah... a bag like the one they're giving to subscribers is kind of the opposite of what pay to win is...
It's not pay-to-win, but it's a business model that open the game to such concept.magnusthorek wrote: »It doesn't affect the overall gameplay giving a headstart to the premium members but it's how things start getting nasty.
ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way. *snip*
Wanderinlost wrote: »Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »All these arguments tend to boil down to a common essence. Animosity towards/ hatred of subscriptions. I ask, why does a subscriber not deserve some recompense for their monthly payment? When others could refuse to pay another cent past the box price and still continue to play... Surely you don't think subscriptions should be just a monthly charitable contribution, do you? Let them be rewarded a little something extra. They deserve it.
You are getting the crafting bags for free, for something you are already paying. A B2P customer will have to spend a substantial fee to access them. This isn't about hating the sub, if anything it is about subbers feeling they are somehow more deserving. I have no problem with ESO+ now, when I get crowns sometimes I get them though ESO+, especially if I know my playtime will warrant it, but I choose one time purchases over a sub because of a lower playtime and the flexibility it offers.
This!IndyWendieGo wrote: »Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
How is it unfair? I pay to play and you just want everything for free without supporting the game you are playing, like developing things doesn't take time and effort. I should be rewarded for being loyal to the development of the game not completely ignored even when i'm paying for basically nothing because buying crown packs is better you save tons of money.
It's silly that they would want to turn down good money from non subscribers who would pay a substantial sum up front for these things instead of renting them with a subscription.
IndyWendieGo wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way. *snip*
Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
Wanderinlost wrote: »How is it unfair? I pay to play and you just want everything for free without supporting the game you are playing, like developing things doesn't take time and effort. I should be rewarded for being loyal to the development of the game not completely ignored even when i'm paying for basically nothing because buying crown packs is better you save tons of money.
Is anyone asking for free bags? Not me. Is anyone saying that ESO+ should not get the bags included? Not me.
A six month sub gets you 9000 crowns upfront which offsets the actual price a subscriber is paying by a large amount, buying crowns outright you get around 11,000 for the same price. You do not have to buy DLC, you don't have to buy anything really but you have many crowns at your disposal. So this perception that ESO+ is somehow making a far greater contribution to ESO is very misleading and wrong.
I am absolutely happy to pay a subscription to a game I spend a lot of time in, and expect ongoing improvements and new content from. You bought the base game and have benefited from patches and expansions that were not part of the subscription, so you have already gotten "extra stuff" for free.
Support the game that you play or do without. Simple. It is a non necessary feature that has not been part of the game as long as anyone had played it.
What it will do is hopefully attract more subscribers so that all players can continue to enjoy a solvent game.
magnusthorek wrote: »This!IndyWendieGo wrote: »Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
Buying off DLC and not having all the shity costumes, pets and prefer to WORK HARD to get all motifs don't make us less supporters than all those filthy Richie Riches of the game
Wanderinlost wrote: »Extremely disappointed they are making crafting bags sub only "perk". It's more than just a nice perk for crafters. It's the exact kind of feature that should not be implemented to sub only because then you are in a position where you feel a subscription is mandatory for your style of play and if you are subscribing then what do all the previous unlocks and DLC purchases amount to? It is a major feature that has been requested for a long damn time. Personally it pisses me off, because the game itself is so loot heavy inventory management has been a constant issue since day one, and even with all the space you can currently buy/unlock you can still fill your inventory in 20 minutes of play.
Even if it was priced at $30-$50 it would be far better than this sub only crap. It is a buy to play game, and we all bought into that, not to have something this important restricted at a later date in order to drive up sub numbers. Making the sub more attractive is fine and good sense but this is taking it too far. For some of us this has been a #1 requested feature for a long time(above content), and there have been many indications by the devs that it would be added sometime in the future. However by making this sub only feature you are putting all your buy to play customers in a extremely distasteful position.
If I am left in a position to sub in order to get this feature or not then I will probably never by any DLC, any crown packs and sub for a month or two per year at best. In the end it will be a lose-lose situation and a great disappointment for what was one of the better examples of MMO monetization. Currently ESO has great flexibility but this move is a major step backwards that nullifies the advantages of B2P and the crown store.
It's as though some of you really don't understand why Zeni wants to have a revenue stream from subs, and are somehow taking it personally. They need to provide an incentive for people to pay a regular amount every month rather than just occasionally buying crowns. It's fairly fundamental to their financial planning that they encourage people to get a sub. If you are one of the few people who absolutely cannot pay a sub, it is not aimed at hurting you, it is aimed at getting regular income for ongoing development of the game. Running a business 101.
ArvenAldmeri wrote: »IndyWendieGo wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way. *snip*
Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
I am pretty much sure that you dont buy the DLC to support the game but just for the sake of being able to play DLC. If I was not sub I wouldnt buy probably a single DLC, because there is so little I actually like about it. I am being sub because I hope that its gonna help to improve the game. The lag is unbearable already.
So let me tell you this - I see those who dont sub but just buy DLC as people who buy it because they want to play it and any support to the game they are giving is rather secondary effect of it. I am pretty sure they get more money from someone who is 2 year sub than from someone who bought a DLC.
PS: DONT TRY TO MAKE ME ANGRY, DOOD.
Wanderinlost wrote: »It's as though some of you really don't understand why Zeni wants to have a revenue stream from subs, and are somehow taking it personally. They need to provide an incentive for people to pay a regular amount every month rather than just occasionally buying crowns. It's fairly fundamental to their financial planning that they encourage people to get a sub. If you are one of the few people who absolutely cannot pay a sub, it is not aimed at hurting you, it is aimed at getting regular income for ongoing development of the game. Running a business 101.
They already have an incentive and that is quarterly DLC. The buy to play, one time payment is why we have been purchasing DLC. By putting crafting bags behind a sub we either subscribe, which makes the entire principle of those one time purchases nil, or do not get access to a very important feature.
ESO+ is renting content and features. B2P is making purchases with crowns. Both groups are paying, and the difference in amount is not as substantial as many have been trying to portray. By making this ESO+ exclusive it goes against the model the B2P group has been supporting. It is a underhanded and unfair. It is changing the model by putting an important feature behind a sub. If you always had subbed those crowns would have been spent on stuff other than DLC, and for someone to switch to ESO+ after the fact will render those previous purchases to have no value since you are then getting access for the price of the sub.
Wanderinlost wrote: »It seems to me that most of the argument against B2P customers having an option to purchase this is that it would somehow diminish the game for ESO+ customers in some way and to me that seems like a petty argument. How does one customer having a feature make it any less valuable to a ESO+ member? There are also other ways to increase the value of a premium service other than restricting an important feature from half the playerbase.