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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair
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Beowulf_McCallum✭✭✭Wanderinlost wrote: »Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »All these arguments tend to boil down to a common essence. Animosity towards/ hatred of subscriptions. I ask, why does a subscriber not deserve some recompense for their monthly payment? When others could refuse to pay another cent past the box price and still continue to play... Surely you don't think subscriptions should be just a monthly charitable contribution, do you? Let them be rewarded a little something extra. They deserve it.
You are getting the crafting bags for free, for something you are already paying. A B2P customer will have to spend a substantial fee to access them. This isn't about hating the sub, if anything it is about subbers feeling they are somehow more deserving. I have no problem with ESO+ now, when I get crowns sometimes I get them though ESO+, especially if I know my playtime will warrant it, but I choose one time purchases over a sub because of a lower playtime and the flexibility it offers.
And I argue that by VIRTUE of paying $45 each quarter (broken up in monthly payments) ....as an aside... How much do these quarterly DLCS cost? I forget. ....and I digress
ah, yes. By virtue of committing that income they are more deserving, in that respect 2 -
Svalinn✭✭✭I pay to play and you just want everything for free
While i don't agree with the OP and think that the bag should be for subscribers only (even not beeing a subscriber myself) stating that people want "everything for free" in a game where you "buy to play" is not really the best thing to do if you want people to actually consider your statement... this game is NOT F2P ^^1 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm serious and because I am aware that it's not a pay-to-win that I wrote that:at first i wanted to just laugh at this.. then i've been thinking of just asking you if you're serious or just joking, then i just gave up and wrote everything that came to mind because i'm kind of sure that wathever i might answer to this would be received either as an insult or as a "making fun of you" kind of post and i really don't want that... but yeah... a bag like the one they're giving to subscribers is kind of the opposite of what pay to win is...
It's not pay-to-win, but it's a business model that open the game to such concept.magnusthorek wrote: »It doesn't affect the overall gameplay giving a headstart to the premium members but it's how things start getting nasty.
No way I want such feature free, to be bought with gold, all I think as fair is to give equal opportunities to all kinds of supporters. If it's not financially viable to be subscriber but I want to support the game and I want the crafting bags, let me buy it as a standalone feature.
I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.2 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way. *snip*
Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that mount, costume, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.Edited by FleetwoodSmack on April 23, 2016 11:02PMTell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!10 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭Wanderinlost wrote: »Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »All these arguments tend to boil down to a common essence. Animosity towards/ hatred of subscriptions. I ask, why does a subscriber not deserve some recompense for their monthly payment? When others could refuse to pay another cent past the box price and still continue to play... Surely you don't think subscriptions should be just a monthly charitable contribution, do you? Let them be rewarded a little something extra. They deserve it.
You are getting the crafting bags for free, for something you are already paying. A B2P customer will have to spend a substantial fee to access them. This isn't about hating the sub, if anything it is about subbers feeling they are somehow more deserving. I have no problem with ESO+ now, when I get crowns sometimes I get them though ESO+, especially if I know my playtime will warrant it, but I choose one time purchases over a sub because of a lower playtime and the flexibility it offers.
But the problem is if they put the crafting bags in the store what is the point in getting the crafting bags by subscription. Logically you get a better deal with flat out buying them than paying for the subscription for them. It devalues the subscription.12 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's silly that they would want to turn down good money from non subscribers who would pay a substantial sum up front for these things instead of renting them with a subscription.
Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.2 -
Masstershake✭✭✭Anything you can get with the subscription so far you have been able to purchase for a 1 time fee. If that's the model they have used so far why should the crafting bag be any different?
Subscribers should get the bag for free
People who 1 time purchase stuff should be able to 1 time purchase bag.Meatwad gets the honeys G.4 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This!IndyWendieGo wrote: »Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
Buying off DLC and not having all the shity costumes, pets and prefer to WORK HARD to get all motifs don't make us less supporters than all those filthy Richie Riches of the game
Edited by magnusthorek on April 23, 2016 11:03PMI am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.1 -
Wanderinlost✭✭✭How is it unfair? I pay to play and you just want everything for free without supporting the game you are playing, like developing things doesn't take time and effort. I should be rewarded for being loyal to the development of the game not completely ignored even when i'm paying for basically nothing because buying crown packs is better you save tons of money.
Is anyone asking for free bags? Not me. Is anyone saying that ESO+ should not get the bags included? Not me.
A six month sub gets you 9000 crowns upfront which offsets the actual price a subscriber is paying by a large amount, buying crowns outright you get around 11,000 for the same price. You do not have to buy DLC, you don't have to buy anything really but you have many crowns at your disposal. So this perception that ESO+ is somehow making a far greater contribution to ESO is very misleading and wrong.Edited by Wanderinlost on April 23, 2016 11:03PM4 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We crafters survived without it so far. We can keep surviving without it if we don't want to sub.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.5 -
Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭You know you can buy a sub once for the bags full it up and then cancel your sub and never worry about it again because you will still have the and everything inside them.They already said you can take everything out but no longer be able to put anything inside them.2 -
Svalinn✭✭✭It's silly that they would want to turn down good money from non subscribers who would pay a substantial sum up front for these things instead of renting them with a subscription.
Silly... well yeah let's say they put the crafting bag in the store for 50 bucks.. so way more then a full DLC.
THat means that people will buy them ONCE for 50 bucks.
ZOS just made 50 bucks.
Let's say that they put it with a subscription only model that i will assume beeing about 15 bucks a month (not beeing a subscriber i don't remember the exact amount)... This mean that if you don' renew the subscription you lose the bag after a month.
So the subscriber that wants the bag is encouraged in subscribing and paying 15 bucks a month means that that bug will earn ZOS 180 bucks a year.
To this let's add that some non subscribers will subscribe in order to get the bag... and the fact that if the bag wasn't in subscription only model some subscribers would stop subscribing because they'd get too few benefits.
And yeah.. you have why putting that bag in the crown store is an extremly dumb move as far as founding the company is concerned.6 -
Ripsyn✭I am absolutely happy to pay a subscription to a game I spend a lot of time in, and expect ongoing improvements and new content from. You bought the base game and have benefited from patches and expansions that were not part of the subscription, so you have already gotten "extra stuff" for free.
Support the game that you play or do without. Simple. It is a non necessary feature that has not been part of the game as long as anyone had played it.
What it will do is hopefully attract more subscribers so that all players can continue to enjoy a solvent game.4 -
ContraTempo✭✭✭✭Everyone on here has always played without it. That hasn't kept us from doing anything, though I do agree inventory management is currently one of the most annoying, time sucking activities in the game. I understand your frustration but I always knew this is exactly the kind of feature they would give to subscribers.
If you are on PC you might get some relief from one of the inventory management add ons. You still have to go to the bank but it can automatically swap stuff around for you.ContraTempo
Carpe DM
Seize the Dungeon Master1 -
ArvenAldmeri✭✭✭✭✭IndyWendieGo wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way. *snip*
Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
I am pretty much sure that you dont buy the DLC to support the game but just for the sake of being able to play DLC. If I was not sub I wouldnt buy probably a single DLC, because there is so little I actually like about it. I am being sub because I hope that its gonna help to improve the game. The lag is unbearable already.
So let me tell you this - I see those who dont sub but just buy DLC as people who buy it because they want to play it and any support to the game they are giving is rather secondary effect of it. I am pretty sure they get more money from someone who is 2 year sub than from someone who bought a DLC.
PS: DONT TRY TO MAKE ME ANGRY, DOOD.Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's as though some of you really don't understand why Zeni wants to have a revenue stream from subs, and are somehow taking it personally. They need to provide an incentive for people to pay a regular amount every month rather than just occasionally buying crowns. It's fairly fundamental to their financial planning that they encourage people to get a sub. If you are one of the few people who absolutely cannot pay a sub, it is not aimed at hurting you, it is aimed at getting regular income for ongoing development of the game. Running a business 101.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.11 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its perfectly fine for sub.
Im Not subbed and I would love it, but i can do without it Too.
Sub doesnt really offer something to me the way its ATM.
Crafting bags add something that can be worth it to sub.5 -
Ra'Shtar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wanderinlost wrote: »How is it unfair? I pay to play and you just want everything for free without supporting the game you are playing, like developing things doesn't take time and effort. I should be rewarded for being loyal to the development of the game not completely ignored even when i'm paying for basically nothing because buying crown packs is better you save tons of money.
Is anyone asking for free bags? Not me. Is anyone saying that ESO+ should not get the bags included? Not me.
A six month sub gets you 9000 crowns upfront which offsets the actual price a subscriber is paying by a large amount, buying crowns outright you get around 11,000 for the same price. You do not have to buy DLC, you don't have to buy anything really but you have many crowns at your disposal. So this perception that ESO+ is somehow making a far greater contribution to ESO is very misleading and wrong.
Lets see which is more expensive, 1 year of paying 14.99$ every month or someone buying the 5000 crown pack at half the price...hmmm i dunno you tell me.Some of my favorite screenshots
My opinions and posts are mostly on a PvE setting.3 -
Masstershake✭✭✭I am absolutely happy to pay a subscription to a game I spend a lot of time in, and expect ongoing improvements and new content from. You bought the base game and have benefited from patches and expansions that were not part of the subscription, so you have already gotten "extra stuff" for free.
Support the game that you play or do without. Simple. It is a non necessary feature that has not been part of the game as long as anyone had played it.
What it will do is hopefully attract more subscribers so that all players can continue to enjoy a solvent game.
So if instead of ONLY spending 15 a month for a subscription i pay 100 a month on crowns and 1 time unlocking everything how am i not contributing more than a lousy subscription only player?Meatwad gets the honeys G.0 -
ArvenAldmeri✭✭✭✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »
This!IndyWendieGo wrote: »Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
Buying off DLC and not having all the shity costumes, pets and prefer to WORK HARD to get all motifs don't make us less supporters than all those filthy Richie Riches of the game
The motives do not come to us for free. Most people such as me just farm it the normal way. It makes me laugh that you think all subs are richie riches tho. I am currently unemployed looking for work
And stop being jealous because of the pets and costumes, we all know you want them real bad. Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Silly wabbits.
This is a type of thing I predict will be made available in the crown store after a period of time.
Maybe slightly modified or limited but probably will.
And as a sub since beta I will live with it.Edited by TequilaFire on April 23, 2016 11:17PM1 -
flguy147ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭So paying $180 a year to in sub fees don't deserve a crafting bag???? Hmmmmm ok man. Wish MMOs never moved away from the sub model7
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wanderinlost wrote: »Extremely disappointed they are making crafting bags sub only "perk". It's more than just a nice perk for crafters. It's the exact kind of feature that should not be implemented to sub only because then you are in a position where you feel a subscription is mandatory for your style of play and if you are subscribing then what do all the previous unlocks and DLC purchases amount to? It is a major feature that has been requested for a long damn time. Personally it pisses me off, because the game itself is so loot heavy inventory management has been a constant issue since day one, and even with all the space you can currently buy/unlock you can still fill your inventory in 20 minutes of play.
Even if it was priced at $30-$50 it would be far better than this sub only crap. It is a buy to play game, and we all bought into that, not to have something this important restricted at a later date in order to drive up sub numbers. Making the sub more attractive is fine and good sense but this is taking it too far. For some of us this has been a #1 requested feature for a long time(above content), and there have been many indications by the devs that it would be added sometime in the future. However by making this sub only feature you are putting all your buy to play customers in a extremely distasteful position.
If I am left in a position to sub in order to get this feature or not then I will probably never by any DLC, any crown packs and sub for a month or two per year at best. In the end it will be a lose-lose situation and a great disappointment for what was one of the better examples of MMO monetization. Currently ESO has great flexibility but this move is a major step backwards that nullifies the advantages of B2P and the crown store.
You don't need it....I have 5 toons with all crafts maxed at v16 I have enough mats to equip a raid group with full v16 purple gear and make enough pots and food to last them months, yet my bank is not even full....so your argument is invalid, you can VERY WELL make do without these bags....but they are nice and since I subscribed to this game pretty much since beta I'll be looking forward to all that extra space. The only thing I wish they would do is have it purchase able instead of being a sub exclusive. It wouldn't affect me personally, but would help people in your position.2 -
Wanderinlost✭✭✭It's as though some of you really don't understand why Zeni wants to have a revenue stream from subs, and are somehow taking it personally. They need to provide an incentive for people to pay a regular amount every month rather than just occasionally buying crowns. It's fairly fundamental to their financial planning that they encourage people to get a sub. If you are one of the few people who absolutely cannot pay a sub, it is not aimed at hurting you, it is aimed at getting regular income for ongoing development of the game. Running a business 101.
They already have an incentive and that is quarterly DLC. The buy to play, one time payment is why we have been purchasing DLC. By putting crafting bags behind a sub we either subscribe, which makes the entire principle of those one time purchases nil, or do not get access to a very important feature.
ESO+ is renting content and features. B2P is making purchases with crowns. Both groups are paying, and the difference in amount is not as substantial as many have been trying to portray. By making this ESO+ exclusive it goes against the model the B2P group has been supporting. It is a underhanded and unfair. It is changing the model by putting an important feature behind a sub. If you always had subbed those crowns would have been spent on stuff other than DLC, and for someone to switch to ESO+ after the fact will render those previous purchases to have no value since you are then getting access for the price of the sub.
Edited by Wanderinlost on April 23, 2016 11:23PM1 -
FleetwoodSmack✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »IndyWendieGo wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »I love non-subs complaining about not getting something that subs do. You dont support the game, we do, sub or manage you inventory the better way. *snip*
Some of us buy the DLC, dood. Others stock up on crowns for that motif, those EXP scrolls, PoMs, Motifs, and that list goes on and on. That's supporting the game right there. While I agree with the point you're TRYING to make, please don't generalize non-subs that we're not supporting the game. We do.
I am pretty much sure that you dont buy the DLC to support the game but just for the sake of being able to play DLC. If I was not sub I wouldnt buy probably a single DLC, because there is so little I actually like about it. I am being sub because I hope that its gonna help to improve the game. The lag is unbearable already.
So let me tell you this - I see those who dont sub but just buy DLC as people who buy it because they want to play it and any support to the game they are giving is rather secondary effect of it. I am pretty sure they get more money from someone who is 2 year sub than from someone who bought a DLC.
PS: DONT TRY TO MAKE ME ANGRY, DOOD.
Regardless, that's money in their pockets. The reason why I don't sub is because I don't NEED what they offer. Crafting bags at all. Why? Because I don't need them. I see a large amount of people buying crowns for costumes, motifs, exp scrolls, polymorphs, mounts, pets, even kits and the crown mimic items just as much as a sub. So faulty logic on your end there. Get over it.Edited by FleetwoodSmack on April 23, 2016 11:29PMTell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!3 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nothing unfair about it and they have mentioned it would be a ESO only perk since they hold us about them but rage brother sometimes it actually makes you feel better.2 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So is this a "Nerf Crafting Bags"-thread now?"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU2 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wanderinlost wrote: »It's as though some of you really don't understand why Zeni wants to have a revenue stream from subs, and are somehow taking it personally. They need to provide an incentive for people to pay a regular amount every month rather than just occasionally buying crowns. It's fairly fundamental to their financial planning that they encourage people to get a sub. If you are one of the few people who absolutely cannot pay a sub, it is not aimed at hurting you, it is aimed at getting regular income for ongoing development of the game. Running a business 101.
They already have an incentive and that is quarterly DLC. The buy to play, one time payment is why we have been purchasing DLC. By putting crafting bags behind a sub we either subscribe, which makes the entire principle of those one time purchases nil, or do not get access to a very important feature.
ESO+ is renting content and features. B2P is making purchases with crowns. Both groups are paying, and the difference in amount is not as substantial as many have been trying to portray. By making this ESO+ exclusive it goes against the model the B2P group has been supporting. It is a underhanded and unfair. It is changing the model by putting an important feature behind a sub. If you always had subbed those crowns would have been spent on stuff other than DLC, and for someone to switch to ESO+ after the fact will render those previous purchases to have no value since you are then getting access for the price of the sub.
Please do the math. $16 per month is $192 a year. We get 4 DLC per year...is each one priced at $48?2 -
failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I couldn't care less if it comes out for subscribers only or gets to be bought for crowns as well, I do however worry that if this thing only comes for subscribers - how far does ZOS intend to take this business model?
As a subscriber, I don't mind getting benefits - but I don't want the benefits to create a too big of a gab between subscribers and non-subscribers, because it will hurt the community if one group gets many comfort benefits over the other.
This is a B2P game, not a F2P game and I don't want the community to be split too much.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wanderinlost wrote: »It seems to me that most of the argument against B2P customers having an option to purchase this is that it would somehow diminish the game for ESO+ customers in some way and to me that seems like a petty argument. How does one customer having a feature make it any less valuable to a ESO+ member? There are also other ways to increase the value of a premium service other than restricting an important feature from half the playerbase.
Remind us please, which half of the playerbase is prevented from subscribing?7
This discussion has been closed.