Zenimax Broke PVP and it will never be fixed

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2016

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

Well this was assuming Spell damage, weapon damage, and max magic and max stamina would be hard capped at reasonable levels....

Your absolutely right that without any caps in place this is exactly what would happen...I should have worded that better. Derp

Mumyo · April 2016

tears in my eyes

reften · April 2016

great post.

Prox det needs a heavy nerf, and the lag needs to be fixed.

With that, i'll resub.

Minno · April 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

Well this was assuming Spell damage, weapon damage, and max magic and max stamina would be hard capped at reasonable levels....

Your absolutely right that without any caps in place this is exactly what would happen...I should have worded that better. Derp

Yea we can't remove everything and hope it's perfect. But I'd like to see players embrace Azura Star to really enjoy a non-cp meta.

Derra · April 2016

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Never liked the no burst only sustain meta pre 1.6. Absolutely hate it on azura for the simple fact that i can under no circumstance outheal shieldbreaker when solo (which is 80% of my playtime).
But then again i´m a sorc. The whole class is designed for burst combat. If you can´t burst people there is no point in playing that class.

Edit: Also i really liked how the CP system finally enabled the possibility for different gear setups. Pre 1.6 it was either seducer archmage or seducer warlock for 95% of all magica builds. Magnus if you liked rgn.
Since 1.6 i can tailor my gearsetup much more towards personal taste and playstyle. Something i definetly don´t want to give up.

frozywozy · April 2016

Interesting to see all those people who used to say that Prox changes were fine Pre-TG when I made a poll about it and today they all want it nerfed. I guess I'm going to give my "I told you so" special VE meme here.

@_Chaos - nice Darnathian's signature post there. Right on subject with the thread, no personnal feeling intented.

Reverb · April 2016

Death by nostalgia. I miss 1.5 so much. So. Much. It wasn't perfect, but with the exception of the purge+dot bug, it was the closest we've seen to perfect since launch.

I used to think eso pvp was unstable in 1.4 and 1.5. I would crash maybe once a night in big battle. So many times my client crashed when fighting Decibel, but the sound of bats would keep playing (my gods, all the pulse-bats). But if I knew what the future of eso was, I would never have complained. I would pay good money to go back to those days.

Ishammael · April 2016

RIP 1.5

:'(

bitaken · April 2016

Azura's is awesome. However, the lag is present when one and then two factions pop lock. I still think two pop locked factions on Azuras duking it out over a keep is less laggy than Haderus and True so there is some salient points to what the CP system did to the games performance in Cyrodil. I mean, it's fairly obvious to a lay person that with all those extra calculations on every ability/spell used there is going to be performance issues around those calculations.

Top that off with the lighting patch and this "bot code" that is so mysterious...yeah it makes a lot of sense what OP is saying.

However, Azura's is a place where 12 good men can take on 40 and win. That says a lot right there.

zyk · April 2016

bitaken wrote: »

I mean, it's fairly obvious to a lay person that with all those extra calculations on every ability/spell used there is going to be performance issues around those calculations.

If properly implemented, there need not be any extra calculations during combat. At least not many. CP modifiers can be baked into core attributes. I'm not saying it is properly implemented, but as far as we know, it is.

I think a greater issue is likely at a gameplay level -- larger resource pools with faster regen allow abilities to be executed at a faster rate for a longer duration. But even then, savvy players will modify builds to allow for sufficient resource management as we did in the soft cap era.

Everyone assumes the server tech is to blame for the lag. This is not necessarily true. Every single kind of server has hard limits that bad designers can exceed. Server processing issues are just as likely to be the result of bad game design.

I don't think anyone should jump to conclusions about the impact the CP system has on the server. AS is essentially what we used to call a 'buff server'. They were never laggy in the same way competitive campaigns are.

However, Azura's is a place where 12 good men can take on 40 and win. That says a lot right there.

It is also the campaign that probably has the highest ratio of completely clueless players. Especially on the AD side.

tonemd · April 2016

Minno wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

Well this was assuming Spell damage, weapon damage, and max magic and max stamina would be hard capped at reasonable levels....

Your absolutely right that without any caps in place this is exactly what would happen...I should have worded that better. Derp

Yea we can't remove everything and hope it's perfect. But I'd like to see players embrace Azura Star to really enjoy a non-cp meta.

If more people went to AS I'm pretty sure it would be a lag fest like the CP campaigns. Enjoy your lower numbers while you can.

frozywozy · April 2016

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

Zyle · April 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

I don't get why they're so reluctant to just reduce the cap...it's clear to us (and hopefully them) that it gets unbearably laggy once factions start to pop lock.

Sallington · April 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

I hate that the most obvious short term solution is to drop the pop cap, but since everyone gangs up on 1 keep anyway, it probably wouldn't feel like the population dropped much..

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

The game should be balanced WITHOUT battle spirit. Battle Spirit is a bandaid. Battle spirit is a very temporary patch, where a new apparatus needs to be put in place. Could the game continue to run with battle spirit? Sure. Do I think that's a good idea? No.

Pain In The Axe · April 2016

Yep, this game was awesome in 1.5 and before. 1.6 had its good moments but was meh. Now you cant even go into a keep without getting game breaking lag. I'm going back to shooters they don't have this bull Sh** lag that all current MMO's seem to have now.

Zheg · April 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

The game should be balanced WITHOUT battle spirit. Battle Spirit is a bandaid. Battle spirit is a very temporary patch, where a new apparatus needs to be put in place. Could the game continue to run with battle spirit? Sure. Do I think that's a good idea? No.

Well, of course, it's glaringly obvious that combat is broken when you need 50% damage mitigation to be able to pvp. He clarified his post, but I was responding to the removal of battle spirit without any other changes being made, which obviously would be disastrous.

Darnathian · April 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

Seriously? They break more than they fix and performance has got WAY WORSE. how much u getting paid?

HoloYoitsu · April 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

Hhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251466/compilation-of-tg-bugs-in-pvp-current-bug-counter-89-op-reformatted-4-10-16/p1

frozywozy · April 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

Hhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251466/compilation-of-tg-bugs-in-pvp-current-bug-counter-89-op-reformatted-4-10-16/p1

I never said that they fixed all the bugs or didn't bring new ones. I said "thanks for all the bug fixes" as thanks for fixing alot of them.

Sheey · April 2016

jurra forever gona, best dk eu. rip

Septimus_Magna · April 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

The game should be balanced WITHOUT battle spirit. Battle Spirit is a bandaid. Battle spirit is a very temporary patch, where a new apparatus needs to be put in place. Could the game continue to run with battle spirit? Sure. Do I think that's a good idea? No.

To remove the battlespirit all skill values and dmg/health values in pve should be nerfed accordingly. And if a skill is buffed because its too weak in pve it could become too strong in pvp. With the 50% dmg reduction from the battlespirit this imbalance is 50% less so it scales up only half as fast.

The battlespirit might look bad but I think its a pretty good solution to be able to balance pve and pvp separately.

HoloYoitsu · April 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

The game should be balanced WITHOUT battle spirit. Battle Spirit is a bandaid. Battle spirit is a very temporary patch, where a new apparatus needs to be put in place. Could the game continue to run with battle spirit? Sure. Do I think that's a good idea? No.

To remove the battlespirit all skill values and dmg/health values in pve should be nerfed accordingly. And if a skill is buffed because its too weak in pve it could become too strong in pvp. With the 50% dmg reduction from the battlespirit this imbalance is 50% less so it scales up only half as fast.

The battlespirit might look bad but I think its a pretty good solution to be able to balance pve and pvp separately.

It's actually a very stupid solution because editing the battle spirit debuff is being used as a balancing tool instead of adjusting individual abilities in regards to dmg.

The proper way to balance is to have skills work differently in PvE vs PvP for dmg. The game already has code tags for that, it's called "damage against players". You see this tag in such things as the Shield Breaker set and Vicious Death, which only proc against players.

Carlomagno_XI · April 2016

I shed a tear & poured some juice on the floor for that PvP... i'm on console, and I never experienced that awesomeness. I feel so violated. I just made my first post earlier today stating that every time there is a patch for consoles, they somehow secretly cripple Cyrodiil and increase the slide show production in order to shoo away PvPers. That video just confirmed it.

I have lots of stuffz...

Who wants them?

Poxheart · April 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

Zose would have to lower the pop caps to 24 people per faction to make PvP less laggy, at which point Cyodiil would be way too large. So what you're really advocating is for Zose to scrap Cyrodiil and introduce battlegrounds.

Rylana · April 2016

Beta - Best game ever
1.0 - YAY, IM CRASHING CAUSE UNSTABLE BUT YAY
1.1 - okay this is better, no crashing, this rocks, ESO forever #fixbats
1.2 - Level cap, rly? k fine, grindgrind, pvp kicks ass. buggy, still new, give em time.
1.2.3 - WHY U DO DIS? WHAT DID YOU DO???? I hate everything, i can bear this, fix soon pl0x.
1.3 - Not fixed, y u no fix? Dont you love us? Hey shiney new stuff
1.4 - Moar level cap, k.... fix bugs 1.2.3 and 1.3? No fix? At least game is stable
1.5 - somewhere between 1.0 and 1.1 levels of zen return, but my god fix the glaring bugs with wall of elements. just fix that, damn
1.6 - DEAR GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THIS GAME, YOU BROKE FRICKEN EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE AND DIDNT FIX ANYTHING (nearly all of the 1.X regulars quit here). Game sucks, I hate you, you have til IC to fix. You are out of time.
2.0 - The last six months all make sense now, well played, free to play, I hate you even more. Now we have to buy the stuff youve promised from launch separately and deal with all the crap a F2P game comes with. Fix game. #unsub
2.1 - The patch to save us all, IC is here.... oh wait. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???? A handful of the oldies return, to leave again within 2 weeks. Bugs from 1.0 remain, no end in sight, lag worse than ever. It goes up every patch now.
2.2 - I am numb
2.3 - ....
2.4 - TBD (probably more dots)

The script of the entire ESO PvP playerbase, in a nutshell.

Xsorus · April 2016

1.5 had bugs. it had lag (i'll throw up some videos if ya like..the ping issue was there just the same) and it had balance issues.

But really all it needed was to fix a few things like those balance issues and remove AOE caps..and the game would of been fine.

Now I personally think this patch is better then the previous two patches in terms of pvp balance....and maybe DB patch will balance it a bit more...but really i can handle some imbalances in a game..Every MMO i've played has been unbalanced..

In fact.....Let me just say..be freakin thankful this game doesn't have Bright Wizards

What I want fixed is the Lag..I can handle balance issues..I can handle bugs..I can't handle lag though...

frozywozy · April 2016

Poxheart wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

Zose would have to lower the pop caps to 24 people per faction to make PvP less laggy, at which point Cyodiil would be way too large. So what you're really advocating is for Zose to scrap Cyrodiil and introduce battlegrounds.

3bars is not 24players. 3bars is intense, fun and performing well.

God_flakes · April 2016

And let's not forget the current LOAD SCREENS! I played all weekend and at times spent 3-4 minutes in a load screen. Like really ZOS? Can't even help my team mates because I'm sitting staring at a screen that says Cyrodiil. Then it boots you from server and won't let you back unless your group kicks you. WAY TO GO, Zos.

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

And let's not forget the current LOAD SCREENS! I played all weekend and at times spent 3-4 minutes in a load screen. Like really ZOS? Can't even help my team mates because I'm sitting staring at a screen that says Cyrodiil. Then it boots you from server and won't let you back unless your group kicks you. WAY TO GO, Zos.

That really sucks big time! The Elder Load Screens Online