Zenimax Broke PVP and it will never be fixed

Dreyloch

Talcyndl wrote: »

Azuras is as close to that as you'll get. No CP is good for PvP.

I've tried it, and don't like it. But here's why. ZoS changed how our basic stats capped out. They also changed how much everything costs. But what they didn't change was how regen works. To play on that server requires great resource management. In order to use current gear sets, with current skill costs, and be effective ? While still maintaining high enough resource pools is simply not workable.

If your a melee regardless if your stam or magicka, one of those 2 pools is going to be super low. But you still need to regen those pools in order to get off abilities. This especially hurts stam builds because of blocking etc.The current max level foods do not compensate this for most builds. The choices are health (which every class wants, except maybe sorcs) with your choice of regen. You could go with all regen drink, but then your stat pools suffer. Lastly, you have all stat food, and now your regen is in the toilet.

People are playing that server, but mostly because they didn't want the lag of TF and occasionally Haderus. Otherwise I think that server might have failed altogether. it was a nice idea, but it's not able to work like 1.5 did without many other changes.

God_flakes

Minno wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The game is in a much better state than it has ever been. There are things that got worse and things that got better. Overall, I would never go back behind. I would like to get some aspects of the game back though. This being said, I would like to give a special shoutout to the dev team for all the bug fixes that most people tend to forget and neglect super fast. You guys did a great job fixing lot of them past two years.

RIP ground oil.

They just need a hard look at how CP affects their balance (and obvious performance issues). It was crazy how much the non-CP campaign negated many balance issues but was chastised as the place that only took away your hard grinding work. Those burst builds you see in videos, don't exist in Azura because you have to add regen that many builds today artificially placed into their CP placement.

If we could pop-lock Azura, ID like to hear people's thoughts afterwards.

Agreed 100% no CP and removal of Battle Spirit nerf and softcaps we would have something pretty good.

Do you have any idea how broken (even more so than what we currently have, which says a lot) removing battle spirit would make pvp? Do that and who will care about CP and regen, all you need is to hit a single prox and ultimate and GG.

Well this was assuming Spell damage, weapon damage, and max magic and max stamina would be hard capped at reasonable levels....

Your absolutely right that without any caps in place this is exactly what would happen...I should have worded that better. Derp

Yea we can't remove everything and hope it's perfect. But I'd like to see players embrace Azura Star to really enjoy a non-cp meta.

The problem with this is, if you have spent hours grinding out CP (to compete) why would you essentially willingly give it up?

God_flakes

Rylana wrote: »

Beta - Best game ever
1.0 - YAY, IM CRASHING CAUSE UNSTABLE BUT YAY
1.1 - okay this is better, no crashing, this rocks, ESO forever #fixbats
1.2 - Level cap, rly? k fine, grindgrind, pvp kicks ass. buggy, still new, give em time.
1.2.3 - WHY U DO DIS? WHAT DID YOU DO???? I hate everything, i can bear this, fix soon pl0x.
1.3 - Not fixed, y u no fix? Dont you love us? Hey shiney new stuff
1.4 - Moar level cap, k.... fix bugs 1.2.3 and 1.3? No fix? At least game is stable
1.5 - somewhere between 1.0 and 1.1 levels of zen return, but my god fix the glaring bugs with wall of elements. just fix that, damn
1.6 - DEAR GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THIS GAME, YOU BROKE FRICKEN EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE AND DIDNT FIX ANYTHING (nearly all of the 1.X regulars quit here). Game sucks, I hate you, you have til IC to fix. You are out of time.
2.0 - The last six months all make sense now, well played, free to play, I hate you even more. Now we have to buy the stuff youve promised from launch separately and deal with all the crap a F2P game comes with. Fix game. #unsub
2.1 - The patch to save us all, IC is here.... oh wait. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???? A handful of the oldies return, to leave again within 2 weeks. Bugs from 1.0 remain, no end in sight, lag worse than ever. It goes up every patch now.
2.2 - I am numb
2.3 - ....
2.4 - TBD (probably more dots)



The script of the entire ESO PvP playerbase, in a nutshell.

Hahaha!! This post is so true it hurts.

tonemd

God_flakes wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Beta - Best game ever
1.0 - YAY, IM CRASHING CAUSE UNSTABLE BUT YAY
1.1 - okay this is better, no crashing, this rocks, ESO forever #fixbats
1.2 - Level cap, rly? k fine, grindgrind, pvp kicks ass. buggy, still new, give em time.
1.2.3 - WHY U DO DIS? WHAT DID YOU DO???? I hate everything, i can bear this, fix soon pl0x.
1.3 - Not fixed, y u no fix? Dont you love us? Hey shiney new stuff
1.4 - Moar level cap, k.... fix bugs 1.2.3 and 1.3? No fix? At least game is stable
1.5 - somewhere between 1.0 and 1.1 levels of zen return, but my god fix the glaring bugs with wall of elements. just fix that, damn
1.6 - DEAR GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THIS GAME, YOU BROKE FRICKEN EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE AND DIDNT FIX ANYTHING (nearly all of the 1.X regulars quit here). Game sucks, I hate you, you have til IC to fix. You are out of time.
2.0 - The last six months all make sense now, well played, free to play, I hate you even more. Now we have to buy the stuff youve promised from launch separately and deal with all the crap a F2P game comes with. Fix game. #unsub
2.1 - The patch to save us all, IC is here.... oh wait. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???? A handful of the oldies return, to leave again within 2 weeks. Bugs from 1.0 remain, no end in sight, lag worse than ever. It goes up every patch now.
2.2 - I am numb
2.3 - ....
2.4 - TBD (probably more dots)



The script of the entire ESO PvP playerbase, in a nutshell.

Hahaha!! This post is so true it hurts.

Especially the "I am numb"

Poxheart

frozywozy wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

Zose would have to lower the pop caps to 24 people per faction to make PvP less laggy, at which point Cyodiil would be way too large. So what you're really advocating is for Zose to scrap Cyrodiil and introduce battlegrounds.

3bars is not 24players. 3bars is intense, fun and performing well.

You misunderstand. My point is that in order for Zose to get Cyrodiil performance to where there is minimal/no issues with low FPS or high ping, they would have to lower campaign caps so that 3 bars equals 24 people. Time and time again we have seen evidence that this game cannot support more people than that AND run smoothly.

frozywozy

Poxheart wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

Zose would have to lower the pop caps to 24 people per faction to make PvP less laggy, at which point Cyodiil would be way too large. So what you're really advocating is for Zose to scrap Cyrodiil and introduce battlegrounds.

3bars is not 24players. 3bars is intense, fun and performing well.

You misunderstand. My point is that in order for Zose to get Cyrodiil performance to where there is minimal/no issues with low FPS or high ping, they would have to lower campaign caps so that 3 bars equals 24 people. Time and time again we have seen evidence that this game cannot support more people than that AND run smoothly.

When I play on Trueflame during my lunch time (between noon and 1:30pm eastern), sometimes populations are 3bars for all factions. I get between 80ms and 130ms playing on the north eastern part of america on fiber optic 50/50mbs. My fps never goes under 40fps in all the medium fights that I get (20-30players on the screen at once).

During primetime, when all populations are maxed, we get up to 60-80players on the screen at once and my fps drop down to 25 at the least. This is with a desktop and ingame resolution of 3840x2160p, graphics at medium (textures high, shadows low, ambient occlusion off and depth of field off). I use an i7 3770k 3.5ghz cpu, an evga gtx 980 ti gpu and 16gbs ddr3 1200mhz ram. Most people get worse fps because they don't tweak their graphics down enough or because of a lack of hardwares. Withs max pops, my ping doesn't go higher than 200ms usually, except when two 24men groups are engaging somewhere on the map, then it can go up to 800ms.

With all 3 factions at 3bars, two 24men groups can engage each other and the ping will barely spike. Because the server is not already dealing with tons of other smaller fights happening all at once on the map. Something that has been prouven times and times again that the server can't handle it with the actual code mechanics.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please lower the population cap to what 3 bars actually is and open a new campaign if needed.

DrummondWarrior

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

It might sound strange but pvp in Cyrodiil isnt working because there's the option to pve in Cyrodiil.

If there only was pvp in Cyrodiil there wouldnt be need for harvest nodes, dungeons with npcs etc. Without harvest nodes etc there's no point in running bots in Cyrodiil and which means that many server side processes could be pushed back to the client side (similar to before the lightning patch). This would allow us to enjoy lag free pvp all over Cyrodiil.

All the pve-content in Cyrodiil could remain accessabel through a non-pvp campaign for example.

An other option could be to only allow certified/checked add-ons (like Apps on Apple products) so its harder for people to cheat or create bots in the first place and more processes can be pushed to client side.

Doubt that they will change it however, I am sure the logic behind this is to encourage players that normally are only PvE would join PvP because of... for example some lore books only being in Cyrodill... kinda like a grocery store.... ever notice why the milk is always way in the back of the store? By the time you get to the necessity you have spent more money on things you see along the way... same thing for Cyrodill.... on the way to get a lore book... oh look, sieging keeps??? This is a thing??? Thats kinda cool!! Would be interesting to see if there are any numbers on how many are converted to PvP this way.

Göttermutter

The european server didnt need a change by champions cap. In the "old school" also youngsters must learn how to play and i guess the european servers has not so much real PvP players, that you can play around with them, like DR.Sommer in the BRAVO!
Fact is here also, never change a running system. If some american kids cry about it, so change it there.
Even its not tested at all, if all the hole champion ships abilities work on in the hole game, did you tested it and if so, than and where and by yourself or did you had "puppies" for that!?
So dont believe all, that some are sayings, we knew since release of ESO, that the thrue lays miles and miles fare away.

sirston

A battle in 1.4 with DC attacking a EP keep and the battle was so awesome I took a screenshot

_Chaos

sirston wrote: »

A battle in 1.4 with DC attacking a EP keep and the battle was so awesome I took a screenshot

Felix Feline! He was a cool cat.

It's amazing how bad lag got from 1.5 to 1.6. This was taken about a month after the 1.6 hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ARHLXW0iA

Poxheart

frozywozy wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The most important reason why Azura is less laggy is the fact that population are always 3bars or less. When Trueflame or Haderus or 3bars for all factions, it runs like a charm. I've said that since 6months ago, they need to reduce the population caps to what 3bars actually is, then open another campaign if needed.

Zose would have to lower the pop caps to 24 people per faction to make PvP less laggy, at which point Cyodiil would be way too large. So what you're really advocating is for Zose to scrap Cyrodiil and introduce battlegrounds.

3bars is not 24players. 3bars is intense, fun and performing well.

You misunderstand. My point is that in order for Zose to get Cyrodiil performance to where there is minimal/no issues with low FPS or high ping, they would have to lower campaign caps so that 3 bars equals 24 people. Time and time again we have seen evidence that this game cannot support more people than that AND run smoothly.

When I play on Trueflame during my lunch time (between noon and 1:30pm eastern), sometimes populations are 3bars for all factions. I get between 80ms and 130ms playing on the north eastern part of america on fiber optic 50/50mbs. My fps never goes under 40fps in all the medium fights that I get (20-30players on the screen at once).

During primetime, when all populations are maxed, we get up to 60-80players on the screen at once and my fps drop down to 25 at the least. This is with a desktop and ingame resolution of 3840x2160p, graphics at medium (textures high, shadows low, ambient occlusion off and depth of field off). I use an i7 3770k 3.5ghz cpu, an evga gtx 980 ti gpu and 16gbs ddr3 1200mhz ram. Most people get worse fps because they don't tweak their graphics down enough or because of a lack of hardwares. Withs max pops, my ping doesn't go higher than 200ms usually, except when two 24men groups are engaging somewhere on the map, then it can go up to 800ms.

With all 3 factions at 3bars, two 24men groups can engage each other and the ping will barely spike. Because the server is not already dealing with tons of other smaller fights happening all at once on the map. Something that has been prouven times and times again that the server can't handle it with the actual code mechanics.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please lower the population cap to what 3 bars actually is and open a new campaign if needed.

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