Horrid Dungeon groups

daemonios · April 2016

Masstershake wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

You know, I see so many posts on the forums where people talk about how often they get bad PUGs for group dungeons. In the last week and a half I figure I've run about 30-35 PUGs (anywhere from 2-5 per day), and only once out of all of those did I end up in a group with someone who queued for a role they really couldn't do (it was a tank who really couldn't tank - in fact during the fights I couldn't even really tell which of the other 3 players was supposed to be the tank). And not once out of any of those PUGs (even the one with the tank who couldn't tank) did we fail to complete the dungeon. For the vast majority of those groups I was healing.

Have I just been really lucky, or does the general quality of folks using the group finder vary a lot between platforms/servers? I'm on PC/NA...

In my experience a healer is what makes or breaks a group. I que as tank n dps so 99% of the time am tanking so im not sure if a tank is that essential but i have noticed bad healing kills any group im in. Bad dps just hurt those few dungeons with dps checks. (im looking at you flying squid that needs adds to die first...oh and snake thing that heals to full)

To call Grobull a DPS check is kind of pushing it... At most it's an AoE check, but as long as you're doing SOME kind of AoE, the adds go down really fast. They have pitifully low hp. On my stamina tank I even get out of my heavy armour, put on full DD gear and go around spamming steel tornado and inhale. The real problem with this fight is 4 people running away from the adds like chicken with their heads cut off. Seriously, just stay in one spot, bring all the adds together and AoE. Only need to move if the boss jumps on you and drops his red circle.

emily3989 · April 2016

In response to bad healing:

What is worse for me is getting a couple lvl 30ish dps in group who do nothing but read the fotm builds on the forums, then run into the dungeon with everything into wpn dam/crit (which is too low to matter much anyway) and hovering around 10K hp. They attack the mobs .1 second after the tank goes in, die fast cuz they have no survivability, then cry "Where are the Heals!!!!" to the point where I just gotta leave and find something else to do.

Another time, a group mate asked the tank if he was even taunting, and he responded "let me check".

Could probably fill an entire forum with pug dungeon finder stories though.

Seriously, groups are only 4, should be able to find 3 others than would run with you on at least a semi-regular basis if you really want to focus on dungeons.

HeroOfNone · April 2016

I enjoy the lowbie with highbie dynamic, it's given me more challenging dungeon runs. They take longer, but almost every single one is doable if you follow mechanics. Maybe it's different for me since I role tank and I am pretty survivable in my role.

EDIT: I should mention that I have had a few bad dungeon runs, mostly when players attitudes soured because of various things like low DPS, languages barriers, or why the online guide they read wasn't working. The issue almost always was with the player, not the dungeon.

If you want every dungeon run to be perfect though maybe join a guild that specializes in dungeons and PVE =3

caperon · April 2016

Pre 1.7 I had a fight in the last boss of banished cells of 19.5 minutes, me being the tipical mitigation dk tank. I did more than 3M dmg, killed stacks of 4-6 daedroths with banner and spiked armor (xD) and ressed the whole group a couple of times. Im afraid thats impossible after the stamina regen nerf, but althought at the moment was stressing, its something ill remember all my time in TESO xD.

I think one of the best things of the group finder is preciselly being grouped with unexperienced people making each run a new experience. Sure, sometimes you get mad, specially when the other players refuse to comunicate, but overall its a fun experience. I use it regularly.

emily3989 · April 2016

Masstershake wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

You know, I see so many posts on the forums where people talk about how often they get bad PUGs for group dungeons. In the last week and a half I figure I've run about 30-35 PUGs (anywhere from 2-5 per day), and only once out of all of those did I end up in a group with someone who queued for a role they really couldn't do (it was a tank who really couldn't tank - in fact during the fights I couldn't even really tell which of the other 3 players was supposed to be the tank). And not once out of any of those PUGs (even the one with the tank who couldn't tank) did we fail to complete the dungeon. For the vast majority of those groups I was healing.

Have I just been really lucky, or does the general quality of folks using the group finder vary a lot between platforms/servers? I'm on PC/NA...

In my experience a healer is what makes or breaks a group. I que as tank n dps so 99% of the time am tanking so im not sure if a tank is that essential but i have noticed bad healing kills any group im in. Bad dps just hurt those few dungeons with dps checks. (im looking at you flying squid that needs adds to die first...oh and snake thing that heals to full)

caperon wrote: »

Pre 1.7 I had a fight in the last boss of banished cells of 19.5 minutes, me being the tipical mitigation dk tank. I did more than 3M dmg, killed stacks of 4-6 daedroths with banner and spiked armor (xD) and ressed the whole group a couple of times. Im afraid thats impossible after the stamina regen nerf, but althought at the moment was stressing, its something ill remember all my time in TESO xD.

I think one of the best things of the group finder is preciselly being grouped with unexperienced people making each run a new experience. Sure, sometimes you get mad, specially when the other players refuse to comunicate, but overall its a fun experience. I use it regularly.

Did banished cells the other day, rest of group was oblivious to the orbs. I took em out, fight went pretty quick, but if I wasn't there, they would probably still be fighting that boss, lol.

idk · April 2016

Must be bad RNG. GF groups have gone decent for me since TG. Granted, there was one group who kept standing in stupid. I had to keep Rezing. One boss fight I finished it solo. Faster than Rezing all. That's it.

UrQuan · April 2016

Omg_Pwned wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Regarding the VR16 dungeons with lower level characters, when you queue through the tool everyone in the group is battle leveled to VR16. They will not be true VR16, but the dungeons ARE doable.

Did you ever tried the rats boss in wayrest sewer (normal) dungeon with a low level group? I was before some days as v16 with lvl 16, 20 and 22. Problem is they are battle leveled but they have no aoe at all. The boss spawns every some seconds 10 mobs and without aoe its just not doable. I was the only one spamming sab essences and we get him always down to 30% and once my magicka run out first I died cause I had all aggro and then the group died cause there was no other aoe and at some point to much monsters where spawned.

I would really like to have a only v16 group flag to prevent this failing undaunted tries again and again because you get grouped with low level people with no CP and no AOE

I've done that dungeon several times with groups of lowbies scaled up to VR16 (one of those times I was on a level 20, and I'm pretty sure I was the highest level in the group - if not, the highest level character was definitely below level 25), and I've never noticed that boss being difficult.

If you've got a Templar in the group, they've got the AOE needed to deal with the rats (heck, they can get that AOE at level 2 in the tutorial), if you've got a Dragonknight in the group they've got Talons to root/damage the rats (it's the second skill in the skill line: they should definitely have it by the time they hit level 10), if you've got a Sorcerer they've got Encase to root the rats (again, it's the second skill in the skill line so they should have it before they're high enough level to queue for dungeons). It's really only Nightblades who are likely to be lacking in tools to deal with those rats at low levels.

You can either AOE the rats down, or root them and focus all DPS on the boss (he doesn't have much health - he'll go down fast if you apply a bunch of single target DPS to him), or a combination of the two, and frankly I've never had it be anything but really easy. A group of all low-level Nightblades would have a problem with it I guess.

UrQuan · April 2016

Masstershake wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

You know, I see so many posts on the forums where people talk about how often they get bad PUGs for group dungeons. In the last week and a half I figure I've run about 30-35 PUGs (anywhere from 2-5 per day), and only once out of all of those did I end up in a group with someone who queued for a role they really couldn't do (it was a tank who really couldn't tank - in fact during the fights I couldn't even really tell which of the other 3 players was supposed to be the tank). And not once out of any of those PUGs (even the one with the tank who couldn't tank) did we fail to complete the dungeon. For the vast majority of those groups I was healing.

Have I just been really lucky, or does the general quality of folks using the group finder vary a lot between platforms/servers? I'm on PC/NA...

In my experience a healer is what makes or breaks a group. I que as tank n dps so 99% of the time am tanking so im not sure if a tank is that essential but i have noticed bad healing kills any group im in. Bad dps just hurt those few dungeons with dps checks. (im looking at you flying squid that needs adds to die first...oh and snake thing that heals to full)

Wait, so because I was healing almost exclusively, and I only had 1 bad run out of 30-35 and we still managed to get through that dungeon... Are you calling me a good healer? I'll take the compliment!

Actually I had 1 dungeon group where I got put in as a replacement healer for Blackheart Haven. The healer they initially got refused to put on a disguise in the first part where there are all of those pirates outside the dungeon itself, died to the first mob pull (which I've seen happen to loads of people who don't use the disguise), and immediately quit the group. I only know this because when I joined the group the 3 other players who were already in there told me what had happened. That healer clearly was a weak link - it ended up being a really fun dungeon run. The final boss fight gave us some serious issues (which is not uncommon in that dungeon even with very experienced players), and every time I got turned into a skeleton we'd wipe, but we kept at it, the other players were perfectly willing to adapt their strategy and switch out skills and take advice, and we got through it. I should note that none of the other players had done that dungeon before, and I'd never done it before on that character. I'd also consider it to be the hardest of the pre-Imperial City non-vet dungeons.

Zesiar · April 2016

I was aware of the scaling, but still. The skills they have aren't unlocked. Maybe they could add unlocked skills with a whole new skill bar just for scaled dungeons.

And they should make it more obvious for the roles as some new players might not know what they are qued as. Since you might be qued as a healer cause you qued with a restro staff.

I will do as stated in here and find somebody to group with before to help ensure a better group.

emily3989 · April 2016

Zesiar wrote: »

I was aware of the scaling, but still. The skills they have aren't unlocked. Maybe they could add unlocked skills with a whole new skill bar just for scaled dungeons.

And they should make it more obvious for the roles as some new players might not know what they are qued as. Since you might be qued as a healer cause you qued with a restro staff.

I will do as stated in here and find somebody to group with before to help ensure a better group.

I remember the first time I went into dungeon finder, I was in as the healer and did not even know it. Luckily I had a resto staff on me and a few skill points, so I quickly bought some skills and we ended up finished the dungeon anyway, lol. The others must have been pretty good.

But yea, I honestly had no idea how the whole finder thing worked, other games like Rift would decide your role based on your current spec.

Lilygoat · April 2016

had great time, in dungeons, usually everyone was in great sync. got in with Neriades and seems something would go wrong with sync. Seemed mostly due to low level healer girl. Guess she looked good to the guys, but didn"t keep anyone alive, at all. Players left fast.

tinythinker · April 2016

Group Dungeons

The bonus for using Group Finder is nice. The bonus for doing a random dungeon is nice. Now go the next step and add a bonus for a role (tank, healer, damage dealer) that is in short supply when someone joins the queue. To discourage people "cheating" the system by signing up for a role they can't do but that they think will be harder to fill, add a reputation system with votes from the other players at the end of the run. People with bad reps get lower queue priority, people with good reps get higher queue priority, and those who run lots and lots of dungeons with the LFG tool and do their role can get high enough positive reps to be mentors.

- from this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259806/dolmens-sky-drops-and-mixing-levels-in-base-game-zones-oh-and-dungeons

Toxic_Hemlock · April 2016

Yep, still not seeing any reason to start doing dungeons.

Signed: solo player

swirve · April 2016

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Yep, still not seeing any reason to start doing dungeons.

Signed: solo player

Join a guild and you may do. Though dungeons are boring. Sewers, Cyrodil, Trials and Maelstrom for me are the most fun

hamburgerler76 · April 2016

just gonna link this here

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259848/dungeon-finder-dps-finder#latest

Flameheart · April 2016

I used the group finder tool this week just for silver daylies. Honestly I can say, that group performance and player quality dropped to another - not yet known - minimum for me.

Besides the fact, that some people just queue as tank or healer to get a slot faster, it's pretty annoying to notice that a self proclaimed tank (a light armor user like a sorc with Ward and a taunt on his bar is usually enough for silver) does not even has a taunt on his bar and the self proclamied healer not a single healing skill, while noone else in the group ever heard of blocking.

Ok, it's just silver. Most silver daylies are doable by 3 players, all DDs, but it would be nice to know that in the beginning while not relying on a non existing tank and healer and getting oneshotted at the first boss. It would be no issue, I just wanne know it, so I can adapt and adjust my playstyle.

In addition the upscaling either does not work correctly or all the self proclamied DDs in those random groups are even more lousy as ever seen yet. 3 min trash group fights ? Seriously ?

I switched back to the Deeshan chat.

Silver_Strider · April 2016

I don't mind PUGs so long as they LISTEN.
If you don't listen after I've explained the mechanic several times and we wipe more than 3 time, I just give up.
Had a PUG today to do normal WGT with my Sorc healer. Got to the planar inhibitor and I explained the mechanics but of course everyone just ignored it. Portals went unclosed, Pinion never got ping ponged when boss went blue insta-death flames and I would just get mauled to death by the 20+ adds.
I went to explain the mechanics 1 more time when a dude got on his mic and said to shut up and do my job.
I just left at that point as I could tell those people where just scrubs.

Later, I found that they were indeed scrubs when I 1v3 them in PvP and won. Yellow failures, the lot of them.

willymchilybily · April 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

You know, I see so many posts on the forums where people talk about how often they get bad PUGs for group dungeons. In the last week and a half I figure I've run about 30-35 PUGs (anywhere from 2-5 per day), and only once out of all of those did I end up in a group with someone who queued for a role they really couldn't do (it was a tank who really couldn't tank - in fact during the fights I couldn't even really tell which of the other 3 players was supposed to be the tank). And not once out of any of those PUGs (even the one with the tank who couldn't tank) did we fail to complete the dungeon. For the vast majority of those groups I was healing.

Have I just been really lucky, or does the general quality of folks using the group finder vary a lot between platforms/servers? I'm on PC/NA...

you were the healer. its normally dps queing that have the issues. tanks that dont/cant tank and healers that cant/dont heal. basically running a dungeon with 4 dps. and not even good dps coming from them.

I've seen dps that only heavy resto attack, tanks that clearly dont know the meaning of the word, healers that dont heal unless they get low. DPS in heavy armor. very prevalent to see any of those or on a bad day all of them on PS4 console's "random dungeon" activites. I'd say 50/50 you get a group that is actually filled with the right roles doing their job / or you get garbage.