Dungeon finder= DPS Finder

hamburgerler76

So with this new dungeon finder update i have noticed that finding a group is a lot easier i wont lie. But i have found that 9/10 times my tanks are always dps who qued as a tank to get a group faster. I gues this is cuss they game hates tanks so there are none so if you que as tank you must instant que. But come on once i notice your not a tank im gonna kick you! I am a healer but i bet if i was a DPS i would be getting tank and healer DPS's. does anyone else have this problem? is there anything that can be done? Maybe only allow people to que for 1 role?

Omg_Pwned

Yeah I also had from time to time people que'ed for all three, best is if they die on every pull

therrieur

For most dungeons, i don't mind my tanks being dps's, exceptions being VCoA, VWGT, VICP, VCoH(if we're doing gold pledge)

hamburgerler76

therrieur wrote: »

For most dungeons, i don't mind my tanks being dps's, exceptions being VCoA, VWGT, VICP, VCoH(if we're doing gold pledge)

i dont mind it for most dungeons i just like when they lie about to get in the group like im not going to notice when you cant hold a boss or something lol

SlayerTheDragon

ZO$ has gimped Tanks so badly that there is almost no noticeable difference between the average tank and a DPS at this point (from a healer POV).

Khaos_Bane

This is why I enjoy playing magicka NB DPS. With a healer and a "DPS Tank" we are just fine due to the DPS and healing output.

Sa0n

No difference between a tank and a dps from a healer's point of view? Horseshit. - A healer

phaneub17_ESO

I tank... only normal dungeons though, it's too frustrating to do vet dungeons; need better gear and more champion points before I do that again. This game isn't tank friendly, on my templar tank I'm using 2 slots for defensive moves, 1 slot for melee taunt, 1 slot for a charge, and leaving 1 slot for an attack move. My swap is about the same except no charge, 2 ranged attack spells, and the ranged taunt. I do crappy DPS with this character, it's a sacrifice.

It's funny I have 5 Tanks on WoW with my primary tank does Mythic raiding, this game I won't do more than 1; it's not as fun on here as it is on WoW and is far less rewarding.

emeraldbay

DonoVDV wrote: »

ZO$ has gimped Tanks so badly that there is almost no noticeable difference between the average tank and a DPS at this point (from a healer POV).

As a healer, I disagree very strongly with this. Even an “average” tank is easier to keep alive than a squishy DPS who only queued as a tank to get into a dungeon quicker.

NewBlacksmurf

It's going to happen but it's ppl not the system as we all realize.

Here is my thought tho....if we "everyone" enter a random, our skills should allow us to change things around to balance the group out. So let's say with undaunted, alliance, class and weapon skills those combinations could allow all of us to play a role and support another. Tank or heals, if we don't get a pure role ....honest question, would you be willing to mix some skills around cause while I don't queue as something i can't fill, I've volunteerily left a group cause I had the heal skills, rank and spells and gear but it wasn't enough

Same as dps too

Thoughts?

EsoRecon

Thats just how it is in every mmo

NewBlacksmurf

EsoRecon wrote: »

Thats just how it is in every mmo

Pretty much....it's why I like the opportunity to mix and match without respecting (if you did the quests for the extra 100+ skill points

Sleep

In my grouping experience, most tanks still tank while some of the guys who signed up as a tank didn't taunt boss at all. And when nobody was actually tanking and everyone got one shot by boss, they blamed the healer for not healing them. Seriously, a tank is not necessary for some groups. When your group's dps is high enough and everyone can block some attacks, just kill the boss before he wipes your group. And some bosses have quite unique mechanics that make tanks less useful, such as the last boss in vet spindle, and the last boss in vet darkshade. In my opinion, it's ok that a guy who signed up as a tank doesn't taunt at all, but he should inform others first so others won't be surprised when attacked by boss.

HeroOfNone

Tanking any dungeon naked is simple enough if you know the dungeon. What tells, what pulls, how to kite, etc. You may die sometimes, but you can do it a lot more thank you think. With this in mind, DPS swapping to tank isn't so bad IF they know what they are doing. Most, however, and won't admit it in fear of being kicked out.

Me, personally, I tank and have guild folks that heal so normally we only need the DPS in group finder. We've even had to get DPS to swap to tank since they couldn't pull out the damage numbers needed. It's all about adaptation in most cases. If your trying to do farm runs however I recommend using a static group of friends/guildmates though.

mildlylucid

As a tank, for most normal dungeons having a DPS for a tank is probably better tbh because you can kill the mobs quickly. For vet dungeons and beyond... having a tank is better. So this isn't a problem so long as you only do normal dungeons (and I you could probably manage for some vet ones).

Moozzie

I kick those players if i am the leader or just dont heal till they leave as i am mostly the healer. They are selfish by trying to get in a group and make it way harder for the other players.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

As a part time healer i just wish we had some targeted healing in this game. In any other game i could let someone causing me trouble die a couple times. Just to remind them they are being dumb. But if you get a dps pretending to be a tank, the really bad ones i want to let die. They are smart enough to pull and then run to the back of the group. So more then likely the real dps will eat it first if i dont heal.

The other day we got one that claimed he was so good he usually carried the groups through the dungeons. And then followed that up with, well if the healer is good. Which to me translates into the healer carried him through the dungeons.

Anyway on normal dungeons it doesnt seem to be a big deal. But most random vet dungeons most people in there, myself included, just dont seem to be able to preform all that well if people arent at least sort of doing their role.

Vangy

I keep saying this but ill try again here. Random group finder worked fantastic in other mmos because of things like role checks, dps/heal/damagetaken meters etc. People had some pressure to be good and couldnt even queue if they couldnt fulfill their roles. Here, anyone can queue for anything. No gear checks, no role checks, no idea to know who's the baddie unless its blatantly obvious. The only advice I can give is;

1. Make friends. Go to rawl or elden etc etc and look out for PvE guilds recruiting. Join one of them.
2. Form groups within that guild. Over a week or 2, keep an eye out for players who you enjoyed playing with that were awesome.
3. Dont be shy. Send them a tell telling them they were awesome and if you can add them to your friends list.
4. Repeat 2-3 as necessary until your friends list is full of good players.
5. voila. Now you are in the realm of premade queues and the only thing that can ruin your day is group finder taking 1 hour to pop. GG

Tldr: Make friends. Dont queue into randoms solo. ESO chock full of baddies that will turn your 15 min speed runs into 1 hour wipe fests. See above list for a guide on how to make friends.

idk

DonoVDV wrote: »

ZO$ has gimped Tanks so badly that there is almost no noticeable difference between the average tank and a DPS at this point (from a healer POV).

this thread is not about how much damage the tank takes. It's not relevant. Unless your taunting the boss with your healer, which I have of course.

Callous2208

EsoRecon wrote: »

Thats just how it is in every mmo

It's true. They need to go ahead and go the route that other games have, start giving bonus items, exp, gold to tanks and healers for completing dungeons from the que. It's not a miracle fix but it does help.

TheDarkShadow

Vangy wrote: »

I keep saying this but ill try again here. Random group finder worked fantastic in other mmos because of things like role checks, dps/heal/damagetaken meters etc. People had some pressure to be good and couldnt even queue if they couldnt fulfill their roles. Here, anyone can queue for anything. No gear checks, no role checks, no idea to know who's the baddie unless its blatantly obvious. The only advice I can give is;

1. Make friends. Go to rawl or elden etc etc and look out for PvE guilds recruiting. Join one of them.
2. Form groups within that guild. Over a week or 2, keep an eye out for players who you enjoyed playing with that were awesome.
3. Dont be shy. Send them a tell telling them they were awesome and if you can add them to your friends list.
4. Repeat 2-3 as necessary until your friends list is full of good players.
5. voila. Now you are in the realm of premade queues and the only thing that can ruin your day is group finder taking 1 hour to pop. GG

Tldr: Make friends. Dont queue into randoms solo. ESO chock full of baddies that will turn your 15 min speed runs into 1 hour wipe fests. See above list for a guide on how to make friends.

Gear and stats check can't tell if someone can fill a role or not. My character can swap from tank->dps/heal within a few second simply by change gear and skill bar, sometime if needed, mundus stone. My stats with tank gear and tank mundus totally different from my stats as a dps/healer.

Xsorus

I personally only do normals with pugs with random for the xp to clear my enlightened and get undaunted xp on Alts

I only do vets with guildies

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Callous2208 wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Thats just how it is in every mmo

It's true. They need to go ahead and go the route that other games have, start giving bonus items, exp, gold to tanks and healers for completing dungeons from the que. It's not a miracle fix but it does help.

That actually wont work. With no way to stop nontanks from joining as tanks adding a reward wont work.

Look at it this way. Dps join as tanks now for faster queues for themselves. Would there be more or less selfish people doing this if you also added extra rewards for the tanks when they finished the dungeons?

TheDarkShadow

The problem is the lack of healer and especially TANK. As a tank, I only use group finder 2 times a day to queue for a normal dungeon (for the big xp bonus), and the silver pledge. Say if there are 5 tank every 50 dps, and the tanks only use group finder to do 2 dungeons/day, then only 20 dps can get a group. There is no system to encourage tanks and healers to queue more than they need.
If ZOS can give some kind of token for every time I finished a dungeon and I can use those tokens to trade for Temping Alloy or such things, or trade for the helm/gear I want, then I would use group finder to do more than 2 normal dungeons/day.

Callous2208

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Thats just how it is in every mmo

It's true. They need to go ahead and go the route that other games have, start giving bonus items, exp, gold to tanks and healers for completing dungeons from the que. It's not a miracle fix but it does help.

That actually wont work. With no way to stop nontanks from joining as tanks adding a reward wont work.

Look at it this way. Dps join as tanks now for faster queues for themselves. Would there be more or less selfish people doing this if you also added extra rewards for the tanks when they finished the dungeons?

The reward doesn't happen until the dungeon is complete, so if the person queing as tank couldn't tank it, they'd get no reward. On the back end of this though, they'd have to add some sort of personal block list or penalty, for actions like queing as the wrong thing purposefully. It works for the other games fairly well. Like I said, it's not a miracle fix, just encourages more people to create and level tanks. It would work even better if the wait time for finding a group was streamlined a bit. That way you just kick the non-tank d-bag who que'd wrong, and wait a sec for a fresh actual tank to pop in.

NativeJoe

FYI... I got 2 tanking builds for my character. I might not "look" like a tank when I get into the dungeon, but I am carrying lots of different sets, and weps. And I can spec into pretty much whatever you want. but 95% of the time, I'm not going to show up in anything other then my dps gear. like 99% of most people, I don't que in a dungeon finder for 10 minutes and go out and try to "Tank" or "heal" things to death... I use dps gear sets for that.

But honestly. so long as it isn't VCOA, VWGT, VICP I'm down to run with just about any group dynamic. it's an extra challenge I enjoy. even if it is sometimes easier to just let them stay dead and finish the boss myself.

but for those 3 dungeons... I simply cannot carry you through. For VCOA its the last boss. Not enough dps and we're all dead. VWGT it's the atronoch. if you can't one shot portals we're all dead. (people forget this includes the healer as well, and sometimes tank if you play by some tactics) VICP, I need you to focus on mechanics and listen. if you can't focus your dps idk what I can say.

Everything else as far as 4 man random vet dungeons go... feel free to see what happens if you jump off that cliff, run off and pull every mob in the dungeon, and or que as a healer and don't even heal anyone but yourself. challenge accepted.

caperon

Any dps can tank any veteran dungeon other than ICP and WGT just switching his gear, as long he has skill points in the correct skill trees. I tanked pledges with my pvp stam sorc. Sure, its not the same than with my magicka speciallized DK, but for doing the pledges is more than enought.

I allways say the same to guildmates that complain about not finding groups as DD, just get some crafted gear and tank yourself.

NativeJoe

caperon wrote: »

Any dps can tank any veteran dungeon other than ICP and WGT just switching his gear, as long he has skill points in the correct skill trees. I tanked pledges with my pvp stam sorc. Sure, its not the same than with my magicka speciallized DK, but for doing the pledges is more than enought.

I allways say the same to guildmates that complain about not finding groups as DD, just get some crafted gear and tank yourself.

And you sir are gonna get us nerfed shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Callous2208

NativeJoe wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Any dps can tank any veteran dungeon other than ICP and WGT just switching his gear, as long he has skill points in the correct skill trees. I tanked pledges with my pvp stam sorc. Sure, its not the same than with my magicka speciallized DK, but for doing the pledges is more than enought.

I allways say the same to guildmates that complain about not finding groups as DD, just get some crafted gear and tank yourself.

And you sir are gonna get us nerfed shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Lol, probably. But what's lower than the bottom of the well? Cuz that's where you've already been nerfed to.

LadyNalcarya

Callous2208 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Any dps can tank any veteran dungeon other than ICP and WGT just switching his gear, as long he has skill points in the correct skill trees. I tanked pledges with my pvp stam sorc. Sure, its not the same than with my magicka speciallized DK, but for doing the pledges is more than enought.

I allways say the same to guildmates that complain about not finding groups as DD, just get some crafted gear and tank yourself.

And you sir are gonna get us nerfed shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Lol, probably. But what's lower than the bottom of the well? Cuz that's where you've already been nerfed to.

Well, one can also be nerfed to hell.

jzholloway

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259929/group-finder-job-roles#latest

@wayfarerx yep, popular topic