Ghost-Shot wrote: »The point is not valid because a glass cannon sorc hitting you with fury, curse, frags (in less time than a jesus beam mind you) after someone uses WB wil do even more dmg. A nb gap closing in with a prox det and concealed wep would do the same.pogopwns_ESO wrote: »pogopwns_ESO wrote: »I gave you fgts my @name hit me up. I'll play on any class against you. apparently Im inexperienced because I think RD is a little OP. idgaf hmu in game. you're so tough in forums lol
You sound like a teenager because of the way you talk. You sound inexperienced because you made wholly inaccurate statements about no other skill being unavoidable other than LoS/invis (meteor and soul assault as ults, invigorating drain as regular skill) and pretended like the other counters to Jesus beam (purge/purify/interrupt/bash/stun) didnt exist. You also made a false claim that a single WB and Jesus beam would kill people, and I volunteered to have you demonstrate such a feat because we both know it was hyperbole and you'd need to hit my 30k hp healer for a 20k WB to be able kill me before I CC break and heal. You're entitled to think Jesus beam is overperforming, you're not entitled to think you can get free passes making blatantly false or exaggerated statements.
yes, I made an exaggerated claim, but the point is valid, Zheg. I have stood there and jesus beamed a full health target. he gets hit with a wb or 2 and I get a KB. for real too easy. thats my point.
You can pretend like there's more skill in doing the above, but there really isn't. In fact, I'd rather have a Jesus beam on me instead of a sorc because it's easier to deal with.
As with the other 10 threads on this skill, I've still yet to see a strong argument for why it's OP compared to what every other class can do, nor even a half-decent argument for why this should be such a high priority when there is a cornucopia of legitimately broken and OP crap to choose from.
You are right Zheg, all those 10 threads were made by L2P players who have no idea what's going on and who should listen to your ultimate thruth.
Ok so we're all on the same page now?
/closethread
pogopwns_ESO wrote: »
yes, I made an exaggerated claim, but the point is valid, Zheg. I have stood there and jesus beamed a full health target. he gets hit with a wb or 2 and I get a KB. for real too easy. thats my point.
So... compared to Impale, Radiant Destruction has a much higher range, ticks faster than you can chain-cast Impale, and has an execute range that starts at 40% target Health instead of 25%, and the damage per tick is about the same as Impale has on a single use? Sounds like a lot of benefits for the only drawback of being a channel skill. I think at least the range should be reduced to match Impale's (or the damage needs to be lowered, sorry).
Correct me if I'm wrong please (currently can't log into the game to check the skill descriptions)
Joy_Division wrote: »So... compared to Impale, Radiant Destruction has a much higher range, ticks faster than you can chain-cast Impale, and has an execute range that starts at 40% target Health instead of 25%, and the damage per tick is about the same as Impale has on a single use? Sounds like a lot of benefits for the only drawback of being a channel skill. I think at least the range should be reduced to match Impale's (or the damage needs to be lowered, sorry).
Correct me if I'm wrong please (currently can't log into the game to check the skill descriptions)
You're comparing apples to oranges.
Impale is a insta-cast skill, RD is not.
Impale can be blockcasted. RD cannot.
Impale can be animation canceled with a basic attack. RD cannot.
RD has a escalating damage scale (which does not start at 40% btw). Impale does not.
RD's damage is not instantaneous. Impale's is and delivers it's damage all at once.
RD can be interrupted. Impale cannot.
RD is not just an execute. Impale is just an execute.
RD can be cleansed/purged and LOSed. Impale cannot.
Impale can be dodge. RD cannot.
Stop comparing these skills with totally different mechanics and thinking they should behave similarly.
If you want to claim that impale is not a particularly good skill, I'll agree. But this game is full of meh skills in every skill line.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »
Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
The more I consider this skill, the more I recognize some of the points that magplar makes.
At this point I think its important to really narrow down what people have the most problem with and go from there. No need to nerf the skill into absolute oblivion, that is not balance. Making it dodgeable would do this, and so would nerfing the damage too much.
There are two aspects that people despise about RD. The fact that it can be casted out of range of most abilities, and the fact that it has two different scaling mechanisms. Small tweaks to either of these would bring the skill within range of balance of others.
People constantly argue that RD makes the caster vulnerable, I think if anyone is honest with themselves, it really does not. It is as simple to get out of as pressing your right mouse button and blocking. Sure it is a channel, but literally, just block and you are not longer in that state. That is not true vulnerability.
Imo, leave it undodgeable, leave it at the same damage. In order to bring the skill in line with others, two options.
1. Increase the amount of ticks the skill does, so that it does smaller more frequent ticks over its channel time, keeping the overall damage the same.
2. Decrease the range of the skill so it can potentially be gap closed and interrupted.
Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?
Just wow.
Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.
Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?
Just wow.
Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.
WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.
Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.
The more I consider this skill, the more I recognize some of the points that magplar makes.
At this point I think its important to really narrow down what people have the most problem with and go from there. No need to nerf the skill into absolute oblivion, that is not balance. Making it dodgeable would do this, and so would nerfing the damage too much.
There are two aspects that people despise about RD. The fact that it can be casted out of range of most abilities, and the fact that it has two different scaling mechanisms. Small tweaks to either of these would bring the skill within range of balance of others.
People constantly argue that RD makes the caster vulnerable, I think if anyone is honest with themselves, it really does not. It is as simple to get out of as pressing your right mouse button and blocking. Sure it is a channel, but literally, just block and you are not longer in that state. That is not true vulnerability.
Imo, leave it undodgeable, leave it at the same damage. In order to bring the skill in line with others, two options.
1. Increase the amount of ticks the skill does, so that it does smaller more frequent ticks over its channel time, keeping the overall damage the same.
2. Decrease the range of the skill so it can potentially be gap closed and interrupted.
What a sober post.
On the vulnerability - it's not so much the chance to be interrupted, I find the vulnerability to come from the innate snare it gives the caster, the inability to block cast, and the dead giveaway that you should be a priority target for everyone to focus fire.
When it comes to the gap closer argument, this one I'm solidly against as a potential balance change. The people spamming it behind groups will still do so, but allowing gap closers as a counter will mean that in 1v1
Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?
Just wow.
Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.
WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.
Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.
So the issue as you say it is more the whole concept of melee vs caster.
Caster= long range channel
Melee= close range burst
Melees have problems reaching casters to interrupt/do damage
Casters have trouble defending themselves in range of melee.
Id say those are both true and balancing. When it comes to this its about area awareness and positioning regardless of the skill being used.
Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?
Just wow.
Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.
WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.
Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.
AddictionX wrote: »It appears that there are two types of skills dedicated to "low-heath" mechanics:
(1) "execute" skill: instant, combo oriented.
(2) DPS with low health bonus: based on overall health like executes but with strict counters and situational mechanics.
Execute skills:
-(all stam classes) Executioner- "Spin around and strike an enemy down, dealing [x] Physical Damage plus up to 300% more against enemies with less than 50% Health.
While slotted, Two-Handed abilities deal 18% extra damage to low health targets.
While slotted: Weapon abilities deal more damage to low health targets."
Dmg oriented, instant cast, has passive that increases skill dmg. AC friendly.
- (Nightblade only) Impale - "Thrust a magic blade with a lethal precision to stab an enemy for [x] Magic Damage.
Causes 300% more damage to targets with 25% Heath or less remaining.
Ability may be used at range."
Only execute that has both mag/stam morphs. Ranged morph (Impale) clearly designed as instant and ranged. AC friendly.
- (magicka sorc's only) Endless Fury- "Call down lighting to strike an enemy for [x] Shock Damage.
If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional [y] Shock Damage to the target and [z] Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Explosion deals more damage."
Not sure if AC friendly but it's instant cast ability.
,
Low health DPS:
- (DK only) Molten Armaments- "Charge your weapons with volcanic power to temporarily increase the damage of your fully charged heavy attacks by 40% for 8 seconds, with damage increased further by 150% against targets below 50% Health.
Damage bonus is increased against low health targets.".
Very strict situation; must use full heavy attack. But has a main dps component (useful for stam builds or fire staff builds)
- (templar only) Radiant destruction- "Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing Magic Damage over 3 seconds.
Deals up to 20% additional damage in proportion to your current Magicka.
Targets with less than 50% Health take up to 330% additional damage.
Can critically hit.
Damage increased based on current Magicka."
Reason we are here. Take away the " execute" phase bonus and you have a DPS ability that requires max magicka to scale its primary dmg. Has the most counters due to interrupt abilities available (range and close).
- (all classes) Whirling Blades- "Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [x] Physical Damage to nearby enemies plus up to 100% additional damage against wounded targets, based on their remaining Health.
Also grants Major Endurance, increasing Stamina Recovery by 20% for 10 seconds.
Grants Major Endurance and reduced cost"
AOE based, poor single target ability. additional dmg component based on remaining health pool (no percentage mentioned). Group situations only.
-(all stam classes) Poison Injection- "Shoot an arrow coated in Baandari poison, dealing [x] Poison Damage and an additional [y] Poison Damage over 10 seconds.
Damage over time is increased for enemies with under 50% Health.
Poison effect deals more damage vs low Health enemies.
Main attack AC friendly, but execute initiates only when the DOT ticks. Very situational and build dependant.
And most people forget templar's jabs used to give 70% more crit on low health targets. This means it was always ZOS intention to see the DPS of templars to use channels with high risk, high reward DPS (dark flare, total dark, RD, jabs).
Hey man by the way the DK molten armaments morph was changed.... It grants a buff to major sorcery and major brutality and fully charged heavy attacks keep the 40 percent extra damage but it no longer does execute damage and last for 30 seconds(40 if you got the passives)
DisgracefulMind wrote: »Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?
Just wow.
Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.
WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.
Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.
I'd be fine with a slight range reduction on RD. I think everything else about the skill is fine.
But let's be honest, every decent player should have a gap closer on their bar anyways. A well-rounded player will always choose their skills based on what will allow them to handle the most situations. We have only 4 classes in this game - we should all be prepared to take on any of them at any given time. Even if that means giving up a slot for purge or w/e. It's about adapting, in my opinion.
And I agree, with the wrecking blow changes coming, there should be nothing to complain about in regards to the skill anyways.
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »AddictionX wrote: »It appears that there are two types of skills dedicated to "low-heath" mechanics:
(1) "execute" skill: instant, combo oriented.
(2) DPS with low health bonus: based on overall health like executes but with strict counters and situational mechanics.
Execute skills:
-(all stam classes) Executioner- "Spin around and strike an enemy down, dealing [x] Physical Damage plus up to 300% more against enemies with less than 50% Health.
While slotted, Two-Handed abilities deal 18% extra damage to low health targets.
While slotted: Weapon abilities deal more damage to low health targets."
Dmg oriented, instant cast, has passive that increases skill dmg. AC friendly.
- (Nightblade only) Impale - "Thrust a magic blade with a lethal precision to stab an enemy for [x] Magic Damage.
Causes 300% more damage to targets with 25% Heath or less remaining.
Ability may be used at range."
Only execute that has both mag/stam morphs. Ranged morph (Impale) clearly designed as instant and ranged. AC friendly.
- (magicka sorc's only) Endless Fury- "Call down lighting to strike an enemy for [x] Shock Damage.
If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional [y] Shock Damage to the target and [z] Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Explosion deals more damage."
Not sure if AC friendly but it's instant cast ability.
,
Low health DPS:
- (DK only) Molten Armaments- "Charge your weapons with volcanic power to temporarily increase the damage of your fully charged heavy attacks by 40% for 8 seconds, with damage increased further by 150% against targets below 50% Health.
Damage bonus is increased against low health targets.".
Very strict situation; must use full heavy attack. But has a main dps component (useful for stam builds or fire staff builds)
- (templar only) Radiant destruction- "Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing Magic Damage over 3 seconds.
Deals up to 20% additional damage in proportion to your current Magicka.
Targets with less than 50% Health take up to 330% additional damage.
Can critically hit.
Damage increased based on current Magicka."
Reason we are here. Take away the " execute" phase bonus and you have a DPS ability that requires max magicka to scale its primary dmg. Has the most counters due to interrupt abilities available (range and close).
- (all classes) Whirling Blades- "Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [x] Physical Damage to nearby enemies plus up to 100% additional damage against wounded targets, based on their remaining Health.
Also grants Major Endurance, increasing Stamina Recovery by 20% for 10 seconds.
Grants Major Endurance and reduced cost"
AOE based, poor single target ability. additional dmg component based on remaining health pool (no percentage mentioned). Group situations only.
-(all stam classes) Poison Injection- "Shoot an arrow coated in Baandari poison, dealing [x] Poison Damage and an additional [y] Poison Damage over 10 seconds.
Damage over time is increased for enemies with under 50% Health.
Poison effect deals more damage vs low Health enemies.
Main attack AC friendly, but execute initiates only when the DOT ticks. Very situational and build dependant.
And most people forget templar's jabs used to give 70% more crit on low health targets. This means it was always ZOS intention to see the DPS of templars to use channels with high risk, high reward DPS (dark flare, total dark, RD, jabs).
Hey man by the way the DK molten armaments morph was changed.... It grants a buff to major sorcery and major brutality and fully charged heavy attacks keep the 40 percent extra damage but it no longer does execute damage and last for 30 seconds(40 if you got the passives)
I really miss the high execute heavy attack damage on this skill.
Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?
Just wow.
Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.
KisoValley wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax
Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.
The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.
I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god
Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.
Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.
Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)
Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.
He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.
The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.
I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.
So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?
Just wow.
Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.
WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.
Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.
I'd be fine with a slight range reduction on RD. I think everything else about the skill is fine.
But let's be honest, every decent player should have a gap closer on their bar anyways. A well-rounded player will always choose their skills based on what will allow them to handle the most situations. We have only 4 classes in this game - we should all be prepared to take on any of them at any given time. Even if that means giving up a slot for purge or w/e. It's about adapting, in my opinion.
And I agree, with the wrecking blow changes coming, there should be nothing to complain about in regards to the skill anyways.
I can't wait for the day you experience 5 templars hitting you from Dragonclaw while you've just mounted coming out of Blackboot.
I also don't see why you have to adapt to RD but not any other skill like WB with a skill slot.
Joy_Division wrote: »
You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.
The_Patriarch wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.
^^ This. I main a templar, but I have been burned down by RD enough times to figure out how to counter it.
The_Patriarch wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.
^^ This. I main a templar, but I have been burned down by RD enough times to figure out how to counter it.
Do you also play a stam class who doesn't have access to any valuable shield by any chance?
Do you also play a class who doesn't have a class purge that doesn't cost 5k magicka?
Oh snap, they are increasing the cost of templar purge next patch up to 5k+.
In other words, try playing a stamina class, then talk about counterding RD.