(VIDEO) Beamplar - Jesus Beam - Working as Intended

OdinForge · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You're pulling the same crap Jules did in her thread and asserting every good Templar in the game agrees with your poorly supported argument, and if you don't agree, you're a baddie. Quite a few people I respect say what a good player you are and you've gotten my respect through them thus far, but you can shove that kind of reasoning right up your ... zos.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just the pocket healer to the real classes in the game. I'm not even a girl, so I'm failing at that too.

What a dee bag.

Interesting yet shallow observation.

Virtually = Almost or nearly, I intentionally used "virtually" for any of the good players defending the skill. No one is calling you a pug, I happen to think you're a good player. I never gave a list of names for either side, simply left it for everyone to decide on their own.

Except the above quote is from me, and it flies in the face of your shallow "read it in 3s" statement. I never asserted that Templars who disagree with me are baddies. In fact I'm the only person here showing respect to those who disagree with me. Why don't you re-read my messages very carefully before opening your mouth Zheg.

I can't help it if you guys are just glossing over what I'm saying, taking things out of context.

Other than that we should.. What exactly? Spam dark flare? That's the next nerf thread after RD nerf is pushed through.

Is this a serious question even?

We know what the word virtually means. I'm certain you're including people I play with and people on my friends list in that category, so my comment stands. It was 'virtually' a blanket insult to everyone playing templar that doesn't agree with you on your (again, poorly backed up) position. And also, bordering on a blanket insult to 'virtually' all female gamers, but I'll leave that one be.

I like how you admit you haven't even logged into the game in what? a month now? But are fighting so strongly for changes to a skill you aren't even seeing in action yourself.

No you're simply wrong and I'm not going to let you walk away from this. As if I'm some kind of jack ass for you misreading my simple statement. This was the original context.

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

If my intention was to insult players who didn't agree with me, I'd have said "There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.".

One word can change the tone of an entire statement, which is why i included "virtually". My sentiment was that there are more good players arguing against RD than there are defending it, but that doesn't mean those defending it also aren't good.

...which is why i used the word virtually..or almost all......get it?

When Joy mentioned this comment, I explained my statement (which you missed). You are simply wrong and you didn't read the trail of posts correctly, you assumed I'm doing something I'm not and attacked me.

When I used the term "girlfriend class" it's simply in response to the overwhelming assertion that somehow Templar is always a bad class every patch, when that's far from true, it is a great class. You guys simply misread the context of what I'm talking about, Templars are attracting more vocal players who seem to think this class is garbage, why is that..

I'm not really fighting, I think everyone here on both sides are of the acceptance that RD will not change.

I'm not an idiot, I don't need to play the game 20 hours a week to stay on top of the meta. This game is pretty basic, after two weeks of not playing, I signed in an immediately played at my typical performance.

Zheg · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You're pulling the same crap Jules did in her thread and asserting every good Templar in the game agrees with your poorly supported argument, and if you don't agree, you're a baddie. Quite a few people I respect say what a good player you are and you've gotten my respect through them thus far, but you can shove that kind of reasoning right up your ... zos.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just the pocket healer to the real classes in the game. I'm not even a girl, so I'm failing at that too.

What a dee bag.

Interesting yet shallow observation.

Virtually = Almost or nearly, I intentionally used "virtually" for any of the good players defending the skill. No one is calling you a pug, I happen to think you're a good player. I never gave a list of names for either side, simply left it for everyone to decide on their own.

Except the above quote is from me, and it flies in the face of your shallow "read it in 3s" statement. I never asserted that Templars who disagree with me are baddies. In fact I'm the only person here showing respect to those who disagree with me. Why don't you re-read my messages very carefully before opening your mouth Zheg.

I can't help it if you guys are just glossing over what I'm saying, taking things out of context.

Other than that we should.. What exactly? Spam dark flare? That's the next nerf thread after RD nerf is pushed through.

Is this a serious question even?

We know what the word virtually means. I'm certain you're including people I play with and people on my friends list in that category, so my comment stands. It was 'virtually' a blanket insult to everyone playing templar that doesn't agree with you on your (again, poorly backed up) position. And also, bordering on a blanket insult to 'virtually' all female gamers, but I'll leave that one be.

I like how you admit you haven't even logged into the game in what? a month now? But are fighting so strongly for changes to a skill you aren't even seeing in action yourself.

No you're simply wrong and I'm not going to let you walk away from this. As if I'm some kind of jack ass for you misreading my simple statement. This was the original context.

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

If my intention was to insult players who didn't agree with me, I'd have said "There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.".

One word can change the tone of an entire statement, which is why i included "virtually". My sentiment was that there are more good players arguing against RD than there are defending it, but that doesn't mean those defending it also aren't good.

...which is why i used the word virtually..or almost all......get it?

When Joy mentioned this comment, I explained my statement (which you missed).

When I used the term "girlfriend class" it's simply in response to the overwhelming assertion that somehow Templar is always a bad class every patch, when that's far from true, it is a great class. You guys simply misread the context of what I'm talking about, Templars are attracting more vocal players who seem to think this class is garbage, why is that..

I'm not really fighting, I think everyone here on both sides are of the acceptance that RD will not change.

I'm not an idiot, I don't need to play the game 20 hours a week to stay on top of the meta. This game is pretty basic, after two weeks of not playing, I signed in an immediately played at my typical performance.

If your point was that there was a significant number of templars agreeing with you (the good ones apparently), you would have/should have said many. I can link a definition too, vitrually - very nearly : almost entirely. You implied as strongly as possible without actually saying every - that pretty much all good templars agree with you, and that leaves ... be deduction ... only the bad templars disagreeing with you. Whether or not you think joy or me are decent is moot, there have been a ton of templars countering these asinine arguments with terrible evidence people like you have been making - far more than the word you chose would allow.

I can play word gymnastics with you all day, but you're naive if you don't see how many people your post comes off as insulting to.

OdinForge · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

If your point was that there was a significant number of templars agreeing with you (the good ones apparently), you would have/should have said many. I can link a definition too, vitrually - very nearly : almost entirely. You implied as strongly as possible without actually saying every - that pretty much all good templars agree with you, and that leaves ... be deduction ... only the bad templars disagreeing with you. Whether or not you think joy or me are decent is moot, there have been a ton of templars countering these asinine arguments with terrible evidence people like you have been making - far more than the word you chose would allow.

I can play word gymnastics with you all day, but you're naive if you don't see how many people your post comes off as insulting to.

Sorry dude, you apparently cannot play word gymnastics.

You thought my statement came off as insulting, because you didn't take your time to read it properly. As a result you improperly attacked me for no reason.

I broke it down for you step by step in #242 and in #216 I complimented the person I was debating, so why would I go out of my way to insult anyone.

If I'm gonna talk ***, I'll very clearly talk ***. I'm not going to hide behind fancy word play.

allen-iverson · March 2016

/danceorc

Zheg · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

If your point was that there was a significant number of templars agreeing with you (the good ones apparently), you would have/should have said many. I can link a definition too, vitrually - very nearly : almost entirely. You implied as strongly as possible without actually saying every - that pretty much all good templars agree with you, and that leaves ... be deduction ... only the bad templars disagreeing with you. Whether or not you think joy or me are decent is moot, there have been a ton of templars countering these asinine arguments with terrible evidence people like you have been making - far more than the word you chose would allow.

I can play word gymnastics with you all day, but you're naive if you don't see how many people your post comes off as insulting to.

Sorry dude, you apparently cannot play word gymnastics.

You thought my statement came off as insulting, because you didn't take your time to read it properly. As a result you improperly attacked me for no reason.

I broke it down step by step in #242

If I'm gonna talk ***, I'll very clearly talk ***. I'm not going to hide behind fancy word play.

We can go back and forth if you'd like, but clearly the majority of people reading that post thus far saw it the exact same way I saw it, my response was just a bit more to the point than others.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say virtually all of the good templars present in this thread interpreted that post the same way I did

.

OdinForge · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

If your point was that there was a significant number of templars agreeing with you (the good ones apparently), you would have/should have said many. I can link a definition too, vitrually - very nearly : almost entirely. You implied as strongly as possible without actually saying every - that pretty much all good templars agree with you, and that leaves ... be deduction ... only the bad templars disagreeing with you. Whether or not you think joy or me are decent is moot, there have been a ton of templars countering these asinine arguments with terrible evidence people like you have been making - far more than the word you chose would allow.

I can play word gymnastics with you all day, but you're naive if you don't see how many people your post comes off as insulting to.

Sorry dude, you apparently cannot play word gymnastics.

You thought my statement came off as insulting, because you didn't take your time to read it properly. As a result you improperly attacked me for no reason.

I broke it down step by step in #242

If I'm gonna talk ***, I'll very clearly talk ***. I'm not going to hide behind fancy word play.

We can go back and forth if you'd like, but clearly the majority of people reading that post thus far saw it the exact same way I saw it, my response was just a bit more to the point than others.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say virtually all of the good templars present in this thread interpreted that post the same way I did .

Maybe you should all read slowly, or raise your hand when you're confused.

frozywozy · March 2016

Poxheart wrote: »

Still waiting for Frozn's video of him & 2 others spamming wrecking blow on a perma-blocking Zheg for 5 minutes.

I haven't found it but I got one of 3 of us spamming Mojican who just rerolled magicka today. I'll check this out tonight when I come back from work.

I can't believe that none of you know how to permablock as a magicka templar. I wonder if I should have pity or laugh about it. Or both.

Zheg · March 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Still waiting for Frozn's video of him & 2 others spamming wrecking blow on a perma-blocking Zheg for 5 minutes.

I haven't found it but I got one of 3 of us spamming Mojican who just rerolled magicka today. I'll check this out tonight when I come back from work.

I can't believe that none of you know how to permablock as a magicka templar. I wonder if I should have pity or laugh about it. Or both.

As one of the two templars thus far you insist know how to do this magplar permablock thing, I'm going to confirm that we can do no such thing.

My blocking capabilities go up in a raid group because I run repentance and hit it nearly every other cast as people start to die, but even then my stam has its limits.

Chances are if I was being 3v1'd I was not in a raid group, so... call me curious. From what I can remember about moji's magplar build, we both run higher than normal amounts of stam (16-17k), and can block more than the average bear, but we also need stam to CC break and dodge roll and we have no active means to recover it in a small scale fight if no one has died yet (and we don't have templar friends dropping spears for us to synergize, if they ever drop in the lag).

vyndral13preub18_ESO · March 2016

.

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

If your point was that there was a significant number of templars agreeing with you (the good ones apparently), you would have/should have said many. I can link a definition too, vitrually - very nearly : almost entirely. You implied as strongly as possible without actually saying every - that pretty much all good templars agree with you, and that leaves ... be deduction ... only the bad templars disagreeing with you. Whether or not you think joy or me are decent is moot, there have been a ton of templars countering these asinine arguments with terrible evidence people like you have been making - far more than the word you chose would allow.

I can play word gymnastics with you all day, but you're naive if you don't see how many people your post comes off as insulting to.

Sorry dude, you apparently cannot play word gymnastics.

You thought my statement came off as insulting, because you didn't take your time to read it properly. As a result you improperly attacked me for no reason.

I broke it down step by step in #242

If I'm gonna talk ***, I'll very clearly talk ***. I'm not going to hide behind fancy word play.

We can go back and forth if you'd like, but clearly the majority of people reading that post thus far saw it the exact same way I saw it, my response was just a bit more to the point than others.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say virtually all of the good templars present in this thread interpreted that post the same way I did .

Maybe you should all read slowly, or raise your hand when you're confused.

Should we all raise our hands when we are confused? Or virtually all of us should raise our hands when confused?

Joy_Division · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

There isn't much of a point in arguing Joy, you're over-complicating very simple points.

I don't agree that Templar is or ever was bad. I don't agree with "bad players" being rewarded for spamming easy skills. I've always been against these scenarios, with every class and skill that's come up. I see many "top players" in acceptance with that sentiment. That doesn't mean we're right or wrong, but it's what we're standing for. This is where I firmly stand on the matter.

If you disagree with the above, that's quite okay I guess. You know that ZOS has been continually degrading the game, to hand hold people who aren't interested in learning their class beyond spamming.

Players like @CyrusArya know exactly what's good with Templar.

I don't see this so much as "arguing". Just because I hold a different position or believe differently doesn't make discussion or debates "arguing" as if one person is right and the other is wrong. Rather, there is some ground in-between that continued discussion can maybe arrive at.

What you are saying here illustrates this. There is a fundamental difference to what you are saying here than what you said earlier. It's not about being more polite or respectful. What you said before was overly-simplified, stereotypical, and I believe inaccurate. Can't behind that. Won't get behind it.

This is more of a foundation game-philosophy that I think a lot of people will agree with. Including myself. I don't think over-rewarding spamming easy skills is compelling game design. It's a perfectly fine principle to stand firm on.

But ... isn't "easy" what this game is? Fear is an AoE, no cooldown, can't be blocked, doesn't even have to be aimed; you just hit the button and the most defensive oriented build in the game holds their hands on their heads and starts running away. That's too damned easy. Wrecking Blow has one of the highest damage coefficents in the game, empowers itself - and stuns[!] - and ZoS made it easier by removing the interrupt. Easy Peasy. Just because I play a templar doesn't mean I don't recognize Breath of Life is also too easy. Let's be real, I can hit a button without even looking at an intended target, and magically the person with the lowest health within 28 meters of my location gets a burst heal. ESO is not designed to be the sort of in-depth intricate and complex tactical/strategic fantasy game. It's Bear and Pretzels. Simple mechanics, few skills, and a consistent pattern of updates that have strove for uncomplicated fixes to its big problems. 5 skills on our bars, no cooldowns. Spamming will always be a part of the game. That's how it is designed.

K, we both seem to understand this. So why must ZoS drop what they are doing, nerf RD, and do nothing to address all the other "easy" spams that are in the game? Here something else that is in my opinion too "easy": that stamina based players can draw on their primary resource and with the press of a button avoid every single instant-cast single target skill in the game. Yeah I know it draws from their offensive pool. Was an issue in 1.5. Not now with infinite resources we have. Maybe, just maybe ZoS sees channels like RD as a counter to that form of defense and thus make things a bit more complicated? They did say it was WAI. That's was their justification for fear against block.

RD is symptomatic of the game's design where many of the "go to" skills that we use are too easy, too potent, and too accessible. Which is why I don't agree that making this skill "harder" but not doing the same to something like fear is consistent, let alone balanced. But the game is OK, I don't have a huge problem with it. It's a game not targeted at the sort of hardcore PvP players such as yourself who would prefer something more complex. Which is fine. It's still fun. Some of the my favorite games have been of the Beer and Pretzel variety. There is still a charm to it and there is a consistency to its easy and spammability nature of it that makes it at least fair and competitive, which I think is most important. When the ping isn't 700+ anyway.

I do not think top players in this game lack the means to consistently defeat average templar players who make use of this skill, namely because they can use their own "easy" skills to do so.

PainfulFAFA · March 2016

Made a new build for my sorc who doesnt even have any interrupts. Why? Because ive adapted. I've learned that i should not be running around with <50% hp and that if im targeted by jesus beams, i just block it, heal thru it, and roll dodge away as im doing it. Not hard just getting used to it.

Sharee · March 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Made a new build for my sorc who doesnt even have any interrupts. Why? Because ive adapted. I've learned that i should not be running around with <50% hp and that if im targeted by jesus beams, i just block it, heal thru it, and roll dodge away as im doing it. Not hard just getting used to it.

You are roll dodging while blocking.

Learn something new every day...

PainfulFAFA · March 2016

Sharee wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Made a new build for my sorc who doesnt even have any interrupts. Why? Because ive adapted. I've learned that i should not be running around with <50% hp and that if im targeted by jesus beams, i just block it, heal thru it, and roll dodge away as im doing it. Not hard just getting used to it.

You are roll dodging while blocking.

Learn something new every day...

Makes me wonder why theres 10+ pages on this issues....

OdinForge · March 2016

What you are saying here illustrates this. There is a fundamental difference to what you are saying here than what you said earlier. It's not about being more polite or respectful. What you said before was overly-simplified, stereotypical, and I believe inaccurate. Can't behind that. Won't get behind it.

What I said initially was "The risk to reward for Templar is too low, for spamming or even just using RD from a safe distance, where your target doesn't have time to get to you. Again in a 1v1 this wouldn't be an issue thanks to counters that work fine within that specific scenario.".

Which is the same as me saying "Bad players shouldn't be rewarded for spamming easy to use skills". We all know that the design of ESO is very "spammy", with limited bar space and a fast paced combat system. But if an inexperienced player picks up NB and tries to gank someone they will fail. Why should players (regardless of skill level) be rewarded for so easily sitting in the back of a group spamming RD, the game makes it too easy for them to do so.

I had issues with fear as a NB back in the day and I voiced my opinion against that skill. But fear was born into a game which also had rampant permablocking, it served a strong purpose despite sometimes falling into the trap of being too easy to abuse in some situations. I've voiced my opinion about ZOS removing the interrupt on wrecking blow as well. Even without the interrupt I have no or very little issue dealing with entry level players using this skill, as a magicka build. I constantly debate this issue over WB, I know how to use the skill better than many, but I also know how to defend against it too. I'm not going to discuss wrecking blow just yet, because I don't spend enough time on my magicka toons, the spec that seem to struggle with it the most.

"But fear was born into a game which also had rampant permablocking, it served a strong purpose despite sometimes falling into the trap of being too easy to abuse in some situations"

I know the concerns of fear being easy mode pre 1.6, before they removed softcaps. With such easy resource management post 1.6, fear is hardly an easy mode tool. I once had a 1H stamnb vs 1H magdk with Quavir in 1.6 for something like 40 minutes, with neither side hurting on resources the entire time. That was with fearing every moment of CC immunity dropping, and being hit with fossilize the same way. Post 1.7 those abilities work just the same way, with block nerf etc. By well into 1.6 I think fear just became a normal skill, I can sustain against fear on my magblade with 600 stamina regen and pots just fine.

Here something else that is in my opinion too "easy": that stamina based players can draw on their primary resource and with the press of a button avoid every single instant-cast single target skill in the game. Yeah I know it draws from their offensive pool. Was an issue in 1.5. Not now with infinite resources we have. Maybe, just maybe ZoS sees channels like RD as a counter to that form of defense and thus make things a bit more complicated?

RD as a response to stamina builds, I'm not sure. I fought against Arya's templar the other day with an optimized CP and gear stam setup. He did just fine without RD, it wasn't a straight 1v1 there was some chaos for everyone. Why should RD be the response for stamina builds?

frozywozy · March 2016

For you boys who believe permablock templars dont exist. @zheg @Poxheart @spenc_cathb16_ESO

https://www.twitch.tv/frozywozy/v/57850448

Now I won't tell you how to do it, you all know how to do it. You simply keep claiming that such a thing doesn't exist so you can keep abusing it and feeling good about yourself. Well here it is, enjoy.

AfkNinja · March 2016

This could get interesting....

raw

Zheg · March 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For you boys who believe permablock templars dont exist. @zheg @Poxheart @spenc_cathb16_ESO

https://www.twitch.tv/frozywozy/v/57850448

Now I won't tell you how to do it, you all know how to do it. You simply keep claiming that such a thing doesn't exist so you can keep abusing it and feeling good about yourself. Well here it is, enjoy.

Frozn

I even gave you an out a few pages back and explained the trollplar build in case you were confused.

Look at his hp. 50k. Are you watching him during the video? His health bar isn't moving because he's chain casting blazing shield, which is what I did on my trollplar last patch, and probably the fight you're referring to. He is NOT permablocking. That involves holding down your block button for the entire fight, and is pretty obvious in animation.

Blazing shield builds allow you tank high amounts of damage and put out mediocre dps to people within 5m. I stopped running it this patch because my version relied on bats rather than honor the dead for recovery, and with fasalla's guile, meat bags, the number of DFs flying around, and not being able to purify those projectiles mid flight - I didn't think the build was going to be as good this patch as it was last patch. Also healing is much harder now, and I like a challenge.

From my own experience with a build like that, and the months of experimentation and theorycrafting, I know what his resource regen is like - and there's no way he has enough to maintain block for a quarter of that fight much less the entire duration. In fact, stamina management is the most difficult component to the build because you're working with barebones and trying to play the role of a sponge in a meta that has tons of roots and cc's.

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frozywozy · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For you boys who believe permablock templars dont exist. @zheg @Poxheart @spenc_cathb16_ESO

https://www.twitch.tv/frozywozy/v/57850448

Now I won't tell you how to do it, you all know how to do it. You simply keep claiming that such a thing doesn't exist so you can keep abusing it and feeling good about yourself. Well here it is, enjoy.

Frozn I even gave you an out a few pages back and explained the trollplar build in case you were confused.

Look at his hp. 50k. Are you watching him during the video? His health bar isn't moving because he's chain casting blazing shield, which is what I did on my trollplar last patch, and probably the fight you're referring to. He is NOT permablocking. That involves holding down your block button for the entire fight, and is pretty obvious in animation.

Blazing shield builds allow you tank high amounts of damage and put out mediocre dps to people within 5m. I stopped running it this patch because my version relied on bats rather than honor the dead for recovery, and with fasalla's guile, meat bags, the number of DFs flying around, and not being able to purify those projectiles mid flight - I didn't think the build was going to be as good this patch as it was last patch. Also healing is much harder now, and I like a challenge.

From my own experience with a build like that, and the months of experimentation and theorycrafting, I know what his resource regen is like - and there's no way he has enough to maintain block for a quarter of that fight much less the entire duration. In fact, stamina management is the most difficult component to the build because you're working with barebones and trying to play the role of a sponge in a meta that has tons of roots and cc's.

I anticipated this reply regarding the true definition of permablocking (taking the definition literally speaking). Obviously the guy is not perma blocking everything. What he does is alternating between his stamina pool (blocking) and his magicka pool (blazing shield) and when he gets out of both, he has two solutions. He either pop devouring swarm or a tripots. Regardless, that guy tanked 63 wrecking blows, 24 executionners, 7 leaps from 3 to 4 players with relatively good damage.

To come back on the main subject and the reason of this debate, people were claiming that countering WB spam on a magicka templar was impossible. They justified the high damage of Radiant Destruction by saying that if their stamina pool doesn't allow them to survive long against WB spam, it is normal that stam characters should have a hard time against RD spam. Which makes no sense at all. I even tried running efficient purge and focusing on surviving only the past 48hours. I still die to RD spam (23k+ dmg) from full health.

To be brief, if a magicka templar can easily counter any melee high hitting stam build if he specs accordingly during a 1v4 encounter, why would a stam toon who already have to use 3 magicka skills to mitigate damage also use efficient purge and manage to have good ressource management after that?

Is the magicka templar using 4 stamina skills to mitigate the melee damage delt to him? No. Does he die to two persons spamming WB recklessly on him? No. So now, why the hell would I die from only two Magplar spamming RD on me from full health hiding behind a zerg?

I mean, if that guy can sustain himself against 4 of us, just imagine him zerg surfing. Something that I can obviously not do because I don't have any way to deal with RD spam as much as he does on top of the fact that he can tank melee damage like a chief, heal like a chief and also deal damage like a chief.

Lexxypwns · March 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For you boys who believe permablock templars dont exist. @zheg @Poxheart @spenc_cathb16_ESO

https://www.twitch.tv/frozywozy/v/57850448

Now I won't tell you how to do it, you all know how to do it. You simply keep claiming that such a thing doesn't exist so you can keep abusing it and feeling good about yourself. Well here it is, enjoy.

he's clearly not perma blocking, your add ons tell you when he blocks, which isn't often.

[snip]

[Edit to remove baiting]

Zheg · March 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For you boys who believe permablock templars dont exist. @zheg @Poxheart @spenc_cathb16_ESO

https://www.twitch.tv/frozywozy/v/57850448

Now I won't tell you how to do it, you all know how to do it. You simply keep claiming that such a thing doesn't exist so you can keep abusing it and feeling good about yourself. Well here it is, enjoy.

Frozn I even gave you an out a few pages back and explained the trollplar build in case you were confused.

Look at his hp. 50k. Are you watching him during the video? His health bar isn't moving because he's chain casting blazing shield, which is what I did on my trollplar last patch, and probably the fight you're referring to. He is NOT permablocking. That involves holding down your block button for the entire fight, and is pretty obvious in animation.

Blazing shield builds allow you tank high amounts of damage and put out mediocre dps to people within 5m. I stopped running it this patch because my version relied on bats rather than honor the dead for recovery, and with fasalla's guile, meat bags, the number of DFs flying around, and not being able to purify those projectiles mid flight - I didn't think the build was going to be as good this patch as it was last patch. Also healing is much harder now, and I like a challenge.

From my own experience with a build like that, and the months of experimentation and theorycrafting, I know what his resource regen is like - and there's no way he has enough to maintain block for a quarter of that fight much less the entire duration. In fact, stamina management is the most difficult component to the build because you're working with barebones and trying to play the role of a sponge in a meta that has tons of roots and cc's.

So in other words, what you're saying that since I lied and this is not permablocking (taking the meaning literally speaking), 63 wrecking blows, 24 executionners, 7 leaps and one guy tanking 3 to 4 players with relatively good damage is fair?

Gotcha.

In case you missed it, I was firstly replying to Joy who said he had a hard time mitigating WB spam. Said there was no way to counter it. Well here it is Joy.

If you want to point to this as a counter to WB, yes, I agree. Most of the time when I was on my trollplar the WBs are when I ran TOWARDS enemies because dummies would kill themselves with it as my blazing shields blew up in their face.

However, that's not what you did. You said permablocking was the counter. Permablocking means something very specific. It means you hold down your block button. Spamming blazing shield is more similar to a sorc's shield stacking than it is to permablocking...

As for it being fair, I kind of think it is. Part of the reason I had so much success with that build last patch is because most players forgot how to deal with blazing shield from its OP glory days. I also would do zero damage if you weren't fighting me in melee range. It was a hard counter to people trying to melee, but my build was hard countered by people focusing my stam pool, using ranged abilities on me, or keeping heal debuffs on me long enough for my recovery efforts to fail. Shield breaker will also tear through that build, and it will likely do so better than it does on a sorc because they can streak away and disengage if they need to reposition, all the trollplar can do is try to LoS.

I'll also point out that the benefit to a 10k+ blazing shield build is that it has a strong enough shield to absorb most skills being spammed, and negates any critical hits because #wrobelreasons for shield mechanics. Yes, you can tank a ton of leaps and WBs on that because none of them are critting and you're not employing the proper counters to the build. You fought me on my trollplar enough that you should know what to do.

Lexxypwns · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For you boys who believe permablock templars dont exist. @zheg @Poxheart @spenc_cathb16_ESO

https://www.twitch.tv/frozywozy/v/57850448

Now I won't tell you how to do it, you all know how to do it. You simply keep claiming that such a thing doesn't exist so you can keep abusing it and feeling good about yourself. Well here it is, enjoy.

Frozn I even gave you an out a few pages back and explained the trollplar build in case you were confused.

Look at his hp. 50k. Are you watching him during the video? His health bar isn't moving because he's chain casting blazing shield, which is what I did on my trollplar last patch, and probably the fight you're referring to. He is NOT permablocking. That involves holding down your block button for the entire fight, and is pretty obvious in animation.

Blazing shield builds allow you tank high amounts of damage and put out mediocre dps to people within 5m. I stopped running it this patch because my version relied on bats rather than honor the dead for recovery, and with fasalla's guile, meat bags, the number of DFs flying around, and not being able to purify those projectiles mid flight - I didn't think the build was going to be as good this patch as it was last patch. Also healing is much harder now, and I like a challenge.

From my own experience with a build like that, and the months of experimentation and theorycrafting, I know what his resource regen is like - and there's no way he has enough to maintain block for a quarter of that fight much less the entire duration. In fact, stamina management is the most difficult component to the build because you're working with barebones and trying to play the role of a sponge in a meta that has tons of roots and cc's.

So in other words, what you're saying that since I lied and this is not permablocking (taking the meaning literally speaking), 63 wrecking blows, 24 executionners, 7 leaps and one guy tanking 3 to 4 players with relatively good damage is fair?

Gotcha.

In case you missed it, I was firstly replying to Joy who said he had a hard time mitigating WB spam. Said there was no way to counter it. Well here it is Joy.

If you want to point to this as a counter to WB, yes, I agree. Most of the time when I was on my trollplar the WBs are when I ran TOWARDS enemies because dummies would kill themselves with it as my blazing shields blew up in their face.

However, that's not what you did. You said permablocking was the counter. Permablocking means something very specific. It means you hold down your block button. Spamming blazing shield is more similar to a sorcs shield stacking than it is to permablocking...

As for it being fair, I kind of think it is. Part of the reason I had so much success with that build last patch is because most players forgot how to deal with blazing shield from it's OP glory days. I also would do zero damage if you weren't fighting me in melee range. It was a hard counter to people trying to melee, but my build was hard countered by people focusing my stam pool, using ranged abilities on me, or keeping heal debuffs on me long enough for my recovery efforts to fail. Shield breaker will also tear through that build, and it will likely do so better than it does on a sorc because they can streak away and disengage if they need to reposition, all the trollplar can do is try to LoS.

Remember blazing shield + blinding flashes? That's when this style of templar was actually deadly.

WTB 1.5 private server invite please

Edit: Is there any doubt that if the small group in that video had done something as simple as saying "ok, everyone ulti in 3,2,1, GO" that the templar would have melted, instantly? Is there anything said templar could do to avoid getting into that 1v3 situation? Sadly, as a magplar, the only magika option is elusive mist, which opens you up to all sorts of vamp weaknesses that a class that struggles with proper mitigation tools couldn't counter

Zheg · March 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For you boys who believe permablock templars dont exist. @zheg @Poxheart @spenc_cathb16_ESO

https://www.twitch.tv/frozywozy/v/57850448

Now I won't tell you how to do it, you all know how to do it. You simply keep claiming that such a thing doesn't exist so you can keep abusing it and feeling good about yourself. Well here it is, enjoy.

Frozn I even gave you an out a few pages back and explained the trollplar build in case you were confused.

Look at his hp. 50k. Are you watching him during the video? His health bar isn't moving because he's chain casting blazing shield, which is what I did on my trollplar last patch, and probably the fight you're referring to. He is NOT permablocking. That involves holding down your block button for the entire fight, and is pretty obvious in animation.

Blazing shield builds allow you tank high amounts of damage and put out mediocre dps to people within 5m. I stopped running it this patch because my version relied on bats rather than honor the dead for recovery, and with fasalla's guile, meat bags, the number of DFs flying around, and not being able to purify those projectiles mid flight - I didn't think the build was going to be as good this patch as it was last patch. Also healing is much harder now, and I like a challenge.

From my own experience with a build like that, and the months of experimentation and theorycrafting, I know what his resource regen is like - and there's no way he has enough to maintain block for a quarter of that fight much less the entire duration. In fact, stamina management is the most difficult component to the build because you're working with barebones and trying to play the role of a sponge in a meta that has tons of roots and cc's.

So in other words, what you're saying that since I lied and this is not permablocking (taking the meaning literally speaking), 63 wrecking blows, 24 executionners, 7 leaps and one guy tanking 3 to 4 players with relatively good damage is fair?

Gotcha.

In case you missed it, I was firstly replying to Joy who said he had a hard time mitigating WB spam. Said there was no way to counter it. Well here it is Joy.

If you want to point to this as a counter to WB, yes, I agree. Most of the time when I was on my trollplar the WBs are when I ran TOWARDS enemies because dummies would kill themselves with it as my blazing shields blew up in their face.

However, that's not what you did. You said permablocking was the counter. Permablocking means something very specific. It means you hold down your block button. Spamming blazing shield is more similar to a sorcs shield stacking than it is to permablocking...

As for it being fair, I kind of think it is. Part of the reason I had so much success with that build last patch is because most players forgot how to deal with blazing shield from it's OP glory days. I also would do zero damage if you weren't fighting me in melee range. It was a hard counter to people trying to melee, but my build was hard countered by people focusing my stam pool, using ranged abilities on me, or keeping heal debuffs on me long enough for my recovery efforts to fail. Shield breaker will also tear through that build, and it will likely do so better than it does on a sorc because they can streak away and disengage if they need to reposition, all the trollplar can do is try to LoS.

Remember blazing shield + blinding flashes? That's when this style of templar was actually deadly.

WTB 1.5 private server invite please

Edit: Is there any doubt that if the small group in that video had done something as simple as saying "ok, everyone ulti in 3,2,1, GO" that the templar would have melted, instantly? Is there anything said templar could do to avoid getting into that 1v3 situation? Sadly, as a magplar, the only magika option is elusive mist, which opens you up to all sorts of vamp weaknesses that a class that struggles with proper mitigation tools couldn't counter

I had just started to play my templar as an alt when that meta was in its prime. I was still a templar scrub and never got to really use the skill

I would have sooooo much fun if I had a skill like that in my arsenal now. But instead, I have breath of life on both bars because if weapon swap fails me during lag (which is habitual), I'd die otherwise.

Nifty2g · March 2016

it's an execute it's supposed to hurt. crystal fragments hurts too

thanks rich.

Elong · April 2016

So does Frozn have any permablock videos or not?

leepalmer95 · April 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Made a new build for my sorc who doesnt even have any interrupts. Why? Because ive adapted. I've learned that i should not be running around with <50% hp and that if im targeted by jesus beams, i just block it, heal thru it, and roll dodge away as im doing it. Not hard just getting used to it.

Your roll dodging on a sorc?

Your roll dodging jesus beam.... which goes through dodge roll.

Something tells me you have no idea what day it is at the moment.

Poxheart · April 2016

As entertaining* as that video was, I didn't see any perma-blocking.

*particularly the "what killed me" comment.

PainfulFAFA · April 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Made a new build for my sorc who doesnt even have any interrupts. Why? Because ive adapted. I've learned that i should not be running around with <50% hp and that if im targeted by jesus beams, i just block it, heal thru it, and roll dodge away as im doing it. Not hard just getting used to it.

Your roll dodging on a sorc?

Your roll dodging jesus beam.... which goes through dodge roll.

Something tells me you have no idea what day it is at the moment.

Yes i roll dodge to get away from jesus beam and i block+heal while i do. I guess consoles havent heard of stam sorcs? Why do some ppl think this is hard to do and cry nerf on jesus beam? Its all l2p.

Nifty2g · April 2016

i wish my beam could do this amount of damage

Sharee · April 2016

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Made a new build for my sorc who doesnt even have any interrupts. Why? Because ive adapted. I've learned that i should not be running around with <50% hp and that if im targeted by jesus beams, i just block it, heal thru it, and roll dodge away as im doing it. Not hard just getting used to it.

Your roll dodging on a sorc?

Your roll dodging jesus beam.... which goes through dodge roll.

Something tells me you have no idea what day it is at the moment.

Yes i roll dodge to get away from jesus beam and i block+heal while i do. I guess consoles havent heard of stam sorcs? Why do some ppl think this is hard to do and cry nerf on jesus beam? Its all l2p.

You can not block while rolling. If you hold the block button, and keep holding it while hitting the roll dodge button, you will roll, but you will not be blocking for the duration of the roll.

It was one of the first things i learned on my magicka DK after TG: when you have a meteor incoming, do not roll. Keep blocking until it hits, then roll out of the aoe. Otherwise the meteor will hit you mid-roll, won't be blocked(despite you holding down the block button), knock you down, and you will die from it plus the AOE before you can break free.

If you are blocking and roll at the same time while under the effect of radiant destruction, you are basically spending stamina so you can take increased damage, since beam can be blocked, but not dodged. It makes no sense. If you do not want to block it you would be better off just sprinting away.

PainfulFAFA · April 2016

Sharee wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Made a new build for my sorc who doesnt even have any interrupts. Why? Because ive adapted. I've learned that i should not be running around with <50% hp and that if im targeted by jesus beams, i just block it, heal thru it, and roll dodge away as im doing it. Not hard just getting used to it.

Your roll dodging on a sorc?

Your roll dodging jesus beam.... which goes through dodge roll.

Something tells me you have no idea what day it is at the moment.

Yes i roll dodge to get away from jesus beam and i block+heal while i do. I guess consoles havent heard of stam sorcs? Why do some ppl think this is hard to do and cry nerf on jesus beam? Its all l2p.

You can not block while rolling. If you hold the block button, and keep holding it while hitting the roll dodge button, you will roll, but you will not be blocking for the duration of the roll.

It was one of the first things i learned on my magicka DK after TG: when you have a meteor incoming, do not roll. Keep blocking until it hits, then roll out of the aoe. Otherwise the meteor will hit you mid-roll, won't be blocked(despite you holding down the block button), knock you down, and you will die from it plus the AOE before you can break free.

If you are blocking and roll at the same time while under the effect of radiant destruction, you are basically spending stamina so you can take increased damage, since beam can be blocked, but not dodged. It makes no sense. If you do not want to block it you would be better off just sprinting away.

What you said is correct and so the idea is to block, heal, THEN roll as you create a gap/los the beamer.