(VIDEO) Beamplar - Jesus Beam - Working as Intended

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Or don't play at all and still scream for nerfs. Plenty of that on these threads too for some reason.

_Chaos · March 2016

As a mDK, I have zero issues with RD and it baffles me that we're still spinning the wheels on this subject.
Ask @Darnathian - He tried to DF+RD me about 10 times yesterday :'(

If you die to RD in a 1v1, it's an L2P issue.
--> Magicka = Annulment/Interrupt
--> Stam = Knockdown/Interrupt

You should always have one or the other of the above on your bar. Don't want to slot a counter? Tough [snip].

If you die in GvG
--> Heals need to keep people above execute, Magicka dps should be rotating purge
--> You need to be blocking and/or shielding when you get below 50%
--> The enemy has learned to focus fire

If you die in a 1vX environment
--> Know your enemy! *Zack de la Rocha yell* If you know there's a Templar around, be ready to shield below 50%. Anticipate the burst. You should be focusing magplars off the hop anyways.
--> Don't expect balance in an unfair fight.

leepalmer95 · March 2016

I feel like people are just ignoring the points people are made and are just throw l2p's around.

Beam needs to have it execute range dropped, every other ranged execute starts at 25% why does beam start at 50%?

Make it an actual execute and not a skill templars start spamming when people are around 50% hp.

Joy_Division · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

*Ahem*

Yep, we are all PuGs who fails to comprehend what "legitimate" and "great" players see so clearly.

OdinForge · March 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

*Ahem*

Yep, we are all PuGs who fails to comprehend what "legitimate" and "great" players see so clearly.

Virtually = Almost or nearly, I intentionally used "virtually" for any of the good players defending the skill. No one is calling you a pug, I happen to think you're a good player. I never gave a list of names for either side, simply left it for everyone to decide on their own.

More "better" or "known" players have brought up concerns about this skill, versus those that appear to be defending it, that is fact.

frozywozy · March 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I've tried running with efficient purge and I find myself running OOM pretty quickly. Not worth for a stam DK who also run Igneous Shield, Hardened Armor and Dragon Fire Scales. It's allright though. Gina said that they don't intend to change the way it works. I'll just resolve on sieging with my stone cold trebs sitting in the back just as they do spamming RD behind 15 friends. Sounds like fun!

Odd statement considering you have long advocated that siege ought to be the proper and effective counter blobs of enemies.

I still think you are too good of a player to be intimidated by RD as it is an unremarkable skill that only does modest DPS most of the times you are attacked by it.

I gave it a try today again Joy. I baited templars by running near them so they start spamming RD on me at full health and I was only defending myself (Keeping Hardened Armor, Igneous Shield, Vigor and Rally up). As soon as they started spamming RD, I started spamming Efficient Purge while dodge rolling away with Major Expedition and 7/7medium armor speed boost. Believe it or not, I died multiple times to 23k+ Radiant Destruction while spamming purges. This is probably a L2P issue though. I'll keep working on it.

_Chaos · March 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I've tried running with efficient purge and I find myself running OOM pretty quickly. Not worth for a stam DK who also run Igneous Shield, Hardened Armor and Dragon Fire Scales. It's allright though. Gina said that they don't intend to change the way it works. I'll just resolve on sieging with my stone cold trebs sitting in the back just as they do spamming RD behind 15 friends. Sounds like fun!

Odd statement considering you have long advocated that siege ought to be the proper and effective counter blobs of enemies.

I still think you are too good of a player to be intimidated by RD as it is an unremarkable skill that only does modest DPS most of the times you are attacked by it.

I gave it a try today again Joy. I baited templars by running near them so they start spamming RD on me at full health and I was only defending myself (Keeping Hardened Armor, Igneous Shield, Vigor and Rally up). As soon as they started spamming RD, I started spamming Efficient Purge while dodge rolling away with Major Expedition and 7/7medium armor speed boost. Believe it or not, I died multiple times to 23k+ Radiant Destruction while spamming purges. This is probably a L2P issue though. I'll keep working on it.

Next time use your gap closer instead genius.

CyrusArya · March 2016

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

I'd love blinding flashes instead of radiant, I'd love any useful skill instead of it. Templars have many many garbage skills, I actually consider radiant to be among those.

Can we drop this BS? Its not working on anyone that knows whats up. Templars have 1 garbage skill, only 1, healing ritual. Everything else is solid and has a viable application somewhere. Id even go as far as to say templars have the most versatile and well rounded tool kit of any class. Its the only class where you can comfortably run 5/5 class skills on a bar. You can do burst damage and burst healing with any weapon sets..no other class can do that.

If you actually think Radiant Destruction is a garbage skill, frankly, your opinion is wrong. The skill is easily one of the strongest in the game now. And it does need a nerf, to its range. How can you possibly justify 28 meters on an undodgeable execute that does that much raw damage even outside execute phase? Oh and execute phase starts at 50%...

To put it into perspective, thats a greater range than any gap closer in the game. At the very least, you shouldn't be able to use the skill outside gap closer range, that is textbook unbalance.

OdinForge · March 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

I'd love blinding flashes instead of radiant, I'd love any useful skill instead of it. Templars have many many garbage skills, I actually consider radiant to be among those.

Can we drop this BS? Its not working on anyone that knows whats up. Templars have 1 garbage skill, only 1, healing ritual. Everything else is solid and has a viable application somewhere. Id even go as far as to say templars have the most versatile and well rounded tool kit of any class. Its the only class where you can comfortably run 5/5 class skills on a bar. You can do burst damage and burst healing with any weapon sets..no other class can do that.

If you actually think Radiant Destruction is a garbage skill, frankly, your opinion is wrong. The skill is easily one of the strongest in the game now. And it does need a nerf, to its range. How can you possibly justify 28 meters on an undodgeable execute that does that much raw damage even outside execute phase? Oh and execute phase starts at 50%...

To put it into perspective, thats a greater range than any gap closer in the game. At the very least, you shouldn't be able to use the skill outside gap closer range, that is textbook unbalance.

^ Knows what's up.

I've actually seen Arya firsthand on his Templar, the last time I signed in.

Dat damage tho.

Joy_Division · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

*Ahem*

Yep, we are all PuGs who fails to comprehend what "legitimate" and "great" players see so clearly.

Virtually = Almost or nearly, I intentionally used "virtually" for any of the good players defending the skill. No one is calling you a pug, I happen to think you're a good player. I never gave a list of names for either side, simply left it for everyone to decide on their own.

More "better" or "known" players have brought up concerns about this skill, versus those that appear to be defending it, that is fact.

It's not that I took offense to your statement.

Rather I think your stereotypical view is problematic. I do not agree at all that somehow the templar pool is diluted because those who want to play support roles are "average" players. I certainly do not agree that the high-skilled boyfriends of this game are particularly drawn to NBs, sorcs, and DKs. I have an ego and chose to pick a templar because I think they kick ass.

I know what virtually means. While I appreciate that you make allowances for me as one of the renegade good templar players (the feeling is mutual, I have seen you play and you are very skilled) who somehow thinks differently, the only way you could come to the conclusion that almost all of the better templars view this skill as broken is if your definition of better is very narrow. There have been, what, like 6 threads made of Jesus Beams, and I see many good templar players who have basically made the same argument that I have.

*******

If more "known" players are concerned about this skill than defending it, that does not mean they are right and those others are wrong. Is it possible that they appear to be in the majority because a magicka templar is the only spec in this game that derives benefit from RD whereas the other 7 specs only defend against it? Are their opinions somehow less biased, less self-centered, or more accurate than those who are defending it? And what makes a "known" player's opinion more valid than a "average girlfriend support" player? Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player who has ever lived. Yet he has proven to be abysmal at the sport from a management perspective. I understand some level of skill and experience are prerequisites for making informed assessments, but just because someone is *really* good at playing the game does not mean they are not subject to their own biases or somehow understands it better than someone who lacks the twitch reflexes or hand-eye coordination to compete at the same level.

Lexxypwns · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Seems like it's not an issue for you in 1v1, and not to big of a deal in groups? It's all about 1vX'ing you're upset about? I see no reason to nerf Magplars so it's easier to 1vX, none at all.

To be fair Templar's don't get to "get away". Why should it be so easy for everyone else to get away from us? (I am a Stamplar, I don't use this skill anyway, and I have yet to have significant issues from it.)

If I win a 1vX I think "Awesome, good fight." If I lose a 1vX I think "NBD I was fighting 3 people." Why should anyone expect to consistently win 1vX fights? If they did wouldn't you expect a nerf? I don't think the devs want people 1vXing 3 or 4 people or more and winning.

I don't think anyone is asking to "nerf Templars", there may be some confusion among arguments here. Bear in mind I've only played TG twice and neither time I had an issue with RD, but the issues are there for many people and I've been on that side before. I happen to play a NB and RD is naturally easier for me to deal with, but it's overly frustrating for my DK and other classes.

When concealed weapon was going through dodge, people weren't asking to nerf NB as a result. It's the same mentality with RD. In some scenarios such as when you're outnumbered I believe it's simply over-performing, but not that it's "over-powered" per say.

IF you or anyone else is having trouble with radiant destruction, slot purge. Its simple and aside from nullifying jesus beam it also increases your survivability overall in pvp to have purge

IF you or anyone else is having trouble with radiant destruction, slot purge.

^ I think you need to read my previous posts one more time. Edit* since you probably won't, this was my statement regarding my own experience with RD in TG.

Bear in mind I've only played TG twice and neither time I had an issue with RD, but the issues are there for many people and I've been on that side before. I happen to play a NB and RD is naturally easier for me to deal with, but it's overly frustrating for my DK and other classes.

I happen to main a NB, but that doesn't discount the other classes.

I'll engage you here for a hot minute. You're talking to someone who used efficient purge (as a more efficient alternative) instead of cloak on his stamina NB since pre Craglorn to 1.5. Back when you couldn't spam offense mindlessly.

These days it's a different story. The cost of efficient purge for a stamina build is simply too high, versus the recasting cost of RD. For a NB cloak / image is the more efficient skill now, for other classes you will magout really fast.

It's just too easy as a Templar to sit in the back of a bunch of allies and use RD, this is my only argument. Templar got a nice damage boost this patch, the best Templars aren't even using RD from what I've experienced. This isn't a question about nerfing, it's simply a fact that RD is over-performing for players looking for an easy out. Many of the premier Templars would love to see a modified flashes brought back to the game instead.

While I agree you can't stand in front of a templar and just spam purge on a stam build while they jesus beam you, you can purge and use LoS and positioning to avoid further jesus beaming. Again, as has been said so so many times on these forums, positioning is one of the most important skills in open world pvp, if Player X has been careful with positioning in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to purge the jesus beam, but purge allows him a do over, to stop the 2k damage ticks(lol, this is what people are whining about), and position himself more effectively before he starts taking 2k damage again (again, lol)

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Lol dude where to start

I have a spell that costs 3.5k magicka and has 5.5k dmg tooltip it can cc u for one second tho. Scratch that I have 2 of those, the second one will u hit u twice if u stay in the red flashy circle.

Another one costs 3.5k and is broken and/or has a 10k tooltip that one only hits after 6 seconds

Purifying light? Nerfed despite no one using it.

Ultimates? Garbage or heal that self roots.

Gapcloser? Wtfbroken after fix 5

Trash dude. Many garbage skills. Soo many.

Tell me this dream bar with all Templar skill? There's 6 skills on a bar btw. Some classes have usefull ultimates.

Bear in mind we must run structured entropy as it seems you don't know the class well.

Radiant is garbage dude. It's a channel. You guys are screaming for nerfs on a self snaring channel. The only position this can be used safely is in the middle/back of a Zerg. Move away while purging if you made a glass cannon that dies to this... The Templar is snaring himself.

The people alcast is killing are standing there or randomly running around in circles. Most don't fire a single ability in response. They just sit and fry.

Keep doing it though, and spam these threads.

CyrusArya · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

^ Knows what's up.

I've actually seen Arya firsthand on his Templar, the last time I signed in.

Dat damage tho.

Templar DPS is so good this patch man. When almost all your attacks are considered dots, and dots can be buffed twice through cps, its not exactly rocket science how strong templars are right now. Directly related to the new cp system, Templars and DKs are the only class that can reasonably get the exploiter cp passive, and templars have the better burst of the two. Between that and how good toppling charge is (a gap closing CC that does very respectable damage), I also think Templars make the best use of OP proxy det outside of zerg bombing. Like you said earlier, you don't even need radiant to be a major threat. RD is just overkill.

OdinForge · March 2016

There isn't much of a point in arguing Joy, you're over-complicating very simple points.

I don't agree that Templar is or ever was bad. I don't agree with "bad players" being rewarded for spamming easy skills. I've always been against these scenarios, with every class and skill that's come up. I see many "top players" in acceptance with that sentiment. That doesn't mean we're right or wrong, but it's what we're standing for. This is where I firmly stand on the matter.

If you disagree with the above, that's quite okay I guess. You know that ZOS has been continually degrading the game, to hand hold people who aren't interested in learning their class beyond spamming.

Players like @CyrusArya know exactly what's good with Templar.

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

I watched a mag NB one shot 20 ppl in 1 second last night.

But 4 Templars can kill you with RD even though you used counters... Nerf it!

Tell me dude what's the good temp wrecking face with RD lining up piles of bodies?

He doesn't exist man.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2016

RD is only an issue for builds with low HP whose primary defense is based on roll dodge.

Thats what it boils down too, look at the majority of these nerf threads concerning RD and you will see its all stamina based dodge roll builds that are complaining about it.

Shield Breaker ignores my damage shields - im fine with that, i can accept that counter.
RD ignores my Dodge roll - i can accept that considering i can dodge every other Templar skill.

RD needs to be good because ZOS took away the Templars AOE CC skill Blinding Flashes...Blinding Flashes was the equavilent of DK Wings, Sorc Streak, and Nightblade Cloak....for taking away such a class defining skill, they needed to give it something good in return.

im all aobut nerfing RD IF you give me back Blinding Flashes

You can have RD for all i care, take it...just give me back Blinding Flashes

Zheg · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

That's hardly been the main argument; I'd avoid trying try portray it as such. I'm strongest on my templar out of all of my alts, but frankly that's more to do with the hours I've clocked on him than anything else. Do I feel like my templar is garbage? No, but I feel like I have to work harder and sacrifice more to be viable, and had I put in the hours on my NB or sorc that I had on my templar, I'd be that much stronger. One of the biggest indicators for me has always been when I do want to play an alt, I have such a hard time trying to fit all of the skills I want to fit onto my bar and always feel grumpy about what I have to leave behind. I don't struggle anywhere near enough with my templar bars. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I think it speaks volumes. I'd also offer that the other three classes are probably far closer to wrobel's "vision" for each than the templar is, and that should imply balance issues. If jesus beam was truly broken and OP I'd say it should be toned down, but it's not, and no one has been able to give evidence proving otherwise. The 'videos' have been lul-worthy jokes and are shot down as soon as they go up. Most templars are frustrated with the current issues plaguing the class and with wrobel's incompetence; we also know what happens when wrobel goes in to balance something class specific, been there, got the t-shirt. Sending him in with duct tape when the skill is above average but hardly OP will result in us being in a far worse spot than we are now, and for little benefit to balance - particularly when compared to the real OP skills and combos in the game. Does no one else find it hilarious how much QQ jesus beam has generated vs. the other utterly and obviously broken crap in game right now? This point has been alluded to in every one of these stupid jesus beam threads, but yet they still keep popping up and I see no where near the same attention given to the real broken skills. In Jules' QQ thread she ended up posting a pic of her nb with over 4k magicka regen, like 47k magicka, 3.5k or so spell damage, and about 22k hp - and then had the gall to insist she only cared about balance. What would be the prox det+tether combo on a build like that? But yeah, jesus beam OP folks

Most if not all of us would prefer to have blinding flashes back, even at the expense of jesus beam. Most if not all of us realize that jesus beam is NOT as strong as people here are trying to portray it in non execute range, and if it were, all of the l33t templars worried about their egos if they don't jump on the bandwagon would actually be using it in the situations that they say it's OP.

"Jesus beam is OP at high health!"
well why don't you actually use it at high health then?
"Well, because I'm good at templar. It's not optimal and it's a dps loss, it's better for me to use dark flare"
is it really all that OP if you aren't even using it in those situations?
"Jesus beam is OP at high health because reasons!"

The above is pretty much how every conversation has gone when a 'good templar' jumps into the fray.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

I don't even play Magplar and I find all these threads completely ridiculous and biased. All the evidence provided so far has shown me is that Templar's who spec full glass cannon can now kill a few people (one at a time I might add) but to do so they turn into a wet paper bag and die at a swift gust of wind.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

You're freely entitled to your opinion, RD likely will not change regardless of what any of us say. But here is the problem with your reasoning.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

You basically admit in the quote above that RD in its current form, gives average to bad players a way to safely spam high DPS from the back of a crowd, not doing any real work. You don't see NB doing this, because getting close to spam impale would result in their death. You shouldn't reward bad players for not investing the time into their class, to learn how to become a threat aside from spamming one button in the back of a crowd.

No one fears average or bad NB, they are also a dime a dozen. In the two days I played TG (weeks apart) I ran into many average NB copycats trying the whole bomb you from stealth trick. A good player will pickup a NB and adapt to the class, and pull of crazy bombs. Just like a good player will also pickup Templar and play it right, as seen from many rerolls (this is the case with every class). An average or bad player will try and fail, and get killed over and over again. NB is a damage oriented class, while Templar is a healing oriented class. NB is the best at pulling off bombs, if that's your main goal. But good Templars are currently using prox and their own class based tools to be extremely deadly.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

This doesn't have anything to do with anyone's arguments..the issue is when you have average or bad Templars simply spamming only RD from the back of a group against solo targets.

The idea that bad players should be rewarded for things like RD spam, is the type of recurring fundamentally wrong issue with ESO PvP. If this is your ultimate idea of balance, I guess that's entirely okay. Seeing as how ZOS is practically destroying PvP every patch, it doesn't really matter what anyone says.

I'm not really invested in this game anymore, so that's my final opinion on the matter.

You're pulling the same crap Jules did in her thread and asserting every good Templar in the game agrees with your poorly supported argument, and if you don't agree, you're a baddie. Quite a few people I respect say what a good player you are and you've gotten my respect through them thus far, but you can shove that kind of reasoning right up your ... zos.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just the pocket healer to the real classes in the game. I'm not even a girl, so I'm failing at that too.

What a D.

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Lol dude I forgot stupid shield. I think that's useless skill number 10

Correct me if I'm wrong I know you want to

OdinForge · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

You're pulling the same crap Jules did in her thread and asserting every good Templar in the game agrees with your poorly supported argument, and if you don't agree, you're a baddie. Quite a few people I respect say what a good player you are and you've gotten my respect through them thus far, but you can shove that kind of reasoning right up your ... zos.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just the pocket healer to the real classes in the game. I'm not even a girl, so I'm failing at that too.

What a dee bag.

Interesting yet shallow observation.

Virtually = Almost or nearly, I intentionally used "virtually" for any of the good players defending the skill. No one is calling you a pug, I happen to think you're a good player. I never gave a list of names for either side, simply left it for everyone to decide on their own.

Except the above quote is from me, and it flies in the face of your shallow "read it in 3s" statement. I never asserted that Templars who disagree with me are baddies. In fact I'm the only person here showing respect to those who disagree with me. Why don't you re-read my messages very carefully before opening your mouth Zheg.

I can't help it if you guys are just glossing over what I'm saying, taking things out of context.

Other than that we should.. What exactly? Spam dark flare? That's the next nerf thread after RD nerf is pushed through.

Is this a serious question even?

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Classes only get 18 skills btw.

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Naw u just insulted us in general. Temps should be healbots or leet 1vXerz

Other than that we should.. What exactly? Spam dark flare? That's the next nerf thread after RD nerf is pushed through.

caeliusstarbreaker · March 2016

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Naw u just insulted us in general. Temps should be healbots or leet 1vXerz

Other than that we should.. What exactly? Spam dark flare? That's the next nerf thread after RD nerf is pushed through.

Philly.... Just an honest question cause I missed it and you don't use quotes.... Who are you talking to? Odinforge?

frozywozy · March 2016

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I've tried running with efficient purge and I find myself running OOM pretty quickly. Not worth for a stam DK who also run Igneous Shield, Hardened Armor and Dragon Fire Scales. It's allright though. Gina said that they don't intend to change the way it works. I'll just resolve on sieging with my stone cold trebs sitting in the back just as they do spamming RD behind 15 friends. Sounds like fun!

Odd statement considering you have long advocated that siege ought to be the proper and effective counter blobs of enemies.

I still think you are too good of a player to be intimidated by RD as it is an unremarkable skill that only does modest DPS most of the times you are attacked by it.

I gave it a try today again Joy. I baited templars by running near them so they start spamming RD on me at full health and I was only defending myself (Keeping Hardened Armor, Igneous Shield, Vigor and Rally up). As soon as they started spamming RD, I started spamming Efficient Purge while dodge rolling away with Major Expedition and 7/7medium armor speed boost. Believe it or not, I died multiple times to 23k+ Radiant Destruction while spamming purges. This is probably a L2P issue though. I'll keep working on it.

Next time use your gap closer instead genius.

How am I supposed to use a gap closer to get away? Oh you probably mean to gap close the magicka templar spamming beams and wreck him? I wish I could, if only he was not hiding behind his friends.

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Ya he's the one saying all good temps agree nerf RD

There was something else about temps being unskilled and ppls girlfriends.

Joy_Division · March 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I've tried running with efficient purge and I find myself running OOM pretty quickly. Not worth for a stam DK who also run Igneous Shield, Hardened Armor and Dragon Fire Scales. It's allright though. Gina said that they don't intend to change the way it works. I'll just resolve on sieging with my stone cold trebs sitting in the back just as they do spamming RD behind 15 friends. Sounds like fun!

Odd statement considering you have long advocated that siege ought to be the proper and effective counter blobs of enemies.

I still think you are too good of a player to be intimidated by RD as it is an unremarkable skill that only does modest DPS most of the times you are attacked by it.

I gave it a try today again Joy. I baited templars by running near them so they start spamming RD on me at full health and I was only defending myself (Keeping Hardened Armor, Igneous Shield, Vigor and Rally up). As soon as they started spamming RD, I started spamming Efficient Purge while dodge rolling away with Major Expedition and 7/7medium armor speed boost. Believe it or not, I died multiple times to 23k+ Radiant Destruction while spamming purges. This is probably a L2P issue though. I'll keep working on it.

At the end of the day Frozn, even an average player with any spec is going to be dangerous sitting behind 15 of her friends, RD or no RD. Only so much you can dodge, reflect, cleanse, heal though, shield, avoid until they get you. I do understand RD is not going to be a convenient thing to counter on a stamina DK. But I don't think it is intended to be. Dks are instead very strong defending against targeted projectiles. The rocks-papers-scissors thing. In competitive situations those 16 players are going to have other priorities than paying attention to what you are doing and that's enough for igneous shield, rally, vigor, and an occasional purge (used to get rid of another annoying debuff) to sustain you through as I see other DKs do. If the object is to escape 15 angry players intent on killing you dodge-rolling away spamming purge with a speed boost, then I think that's typically beyond the means of a DK, independent of RD.

in general I do not dwell much or get overly annoyed at the times I do die in situations where escape is not likely, so I tend to just adopt an aggressive posture and simply hit the rez button whenever some fear, wrecking blow, snipe, crystal frag or RD puts an end to it. Perhaps that is why RD doesn't bother me as in competitive situations, I do not have trouble dealing with it at all.

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Jump over a rock or run behind a tree while u purge, then you drop LoS. You can do this most anywhere but sometimes it's not available and you may die.

For me countering this the purge is to buy time to LoS and get some distance.

I'm speaking from ps4 experience once the ability fails to hit u most of these spammers move on.

phillyboy7897 · March 2016

Oh and I don't mean tree or rock hug I meant it to mean place the tree or rock between you and them as you continue to run away

AfkNinja · March 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

I'd love blinding flashes instead of radiant, I'd love any useful skill instead of it. Templars have many many garbage skills, I actually consider radiant to be among those.

Can we drop this BS? Its not working on anyone that knows whats up. Templars have 1 garbage skill, only 1, healing ritual. Everything else is solid and has a viable application somewhere. Id even go as far as to say templars have the most versatile and well rounded tool kit of any class. Its the only class where you can comfortably run 5/5 class skills on a bar. You can do burst damage and burst healing with any weapon sets..no other class can do that.

Templar has no native major brutality. They are forced to use 2hand or dual wield.
Templar's have no passive resource regen and require active skills to try and keep up.
Templar have no major expedition.
Templar are required to stand still for maximum effect of their armor skill.
A Templar using his native ult is at a disadvantage to one using out of class ults.

MOST VERSATILE? I'm pretty sure Sorc or NB would take that crown imo.

If you actually think Radiant Destruction is a garbage skill, frankly, your opinion is wrong. The skill is easily one of the strongest in the game now. And it does need a nerf, to its range. How can you possibly justify 28 meters on an undodgeable execute that does that much raw damage even outside execute phase? Oh and execute phase starts at 50%...

To put it into perspective, thats a greater range than any gap closer in the game. At the very least, you shouldn't be able to use the skill outside gap closer range, that is textbook unbalance.

Range is an issue I could see a problem with.

What is or isn't garbage is purely subjective but surely you can see there are plenty of Templar skills that are objectively not that good.

Garbage skills in PVP:

Sun Shield (15% LOL)
Focused Charge (till pathing is fixed)
Spear Shards (good luck hitting anyone decent with it, semi useful for stamina gain in party. PVE it's a good skill.)
Nova (LOL, I guess the dmg resistance can be considered useful, you won't get kills with this though unless your opponent is a moron.)
Solar Barage (If you're using this instead of darf flare LOL!!)
Backlash (Not strong enough, doesn't work on shields at all. DPS LOSS)
Eclipse (LOL do I need to explain why this skill is terribad?)
Rite of Passage (situational, still pretty bad though.)
Healing Ritual (LOL, so easy to interupt.)
Radiant Aura (Yea, I'll just equip a skill easily matched by basic potions.)

Also, Stamplar has no native heals in PVP except magica ones. This means you are incorrect about us being able to use ANY weapons and still burst heal. I literally have to use 2 hand and I have to use vigor. I have nothing else.

Garbage passives:

Eduring Rays (woooo longer dot's! Weakens other skills. LOL)
Light weaver (lol, situationally ok I guess...sometimes)
Master Ritualist (LOL a passive matched by gear sets, Stamplar has no use for this or half our other passives.)

I'd love to see your "All Templar skills build". Just cause a skill is "ok" doesn't mean it's not garbage. If you have to replace a skill because another one does the same thing but better that's a good indication the skill you replaced sucks.

Who would pick Nova over Meteor?
Who picks Crescent over Dawnbreaker?
Who runs Sun Shield in PVP? The health requirement to make it functional is insane.

A lot of these skills aren't terrible per-say, they are just CLEARLY not the best in slot option available. Being useful in 1 scenario doesn't mean anything if another skill would be just as good or better from an out of class skill line in that same scenario.

My argument is not that our kit is bad, I feel Templar's are in an ok place atm, still waiting on changes from DB. My point is more that you are exaggerating. Templar does not have the "best" or "most versatile" kit in the game. Can't agree at all.

Edit: Also Radiant and Jabs are like the only in kit options for Templar's to attack someone with reflect or perma dodge roll.

Zheg · March 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

You're pulling the same crap Jules did in her thread and asserting every good Templar in the game agrees with your poorly supported argument, and if you don't agree, you're a baddie. Quite a few people I respect say what a good player you are and you've gotten my respect through them thus far, but you can shove that kind of reasoning right up your ... zos.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just the pocket healer to the real classes in the game. I'm not even a girl, so I'm failing at that too.

What a dee bag.

Interesting yet shallow observation.

Virtually = Almost or nearly, I intentionally used "virtually" for any of the good players defending the skill. No one is calling you a pug, I happen to think you're a good player. I never gave a list of names for either side, simply left it for everyone to decide on their own.

Except the above quote is from me, and it flies in the face of your shallow "read it in 3s" statement. I never asserted that Templars who disagree with me are baddies. In fact I'm the only person here showing respect to those who disagree with me. Why don't you re-read my messages very carefully before opening your mouth Zheg.

I can't help it if you guys are just glossing over what I'm saying, taking things out of context.

Other than that we should.. What exactly? Spam dark flare? That's the next nerf thread after RD nerf is pushed through.

Is this a serious question even?

We know what the word virtually means. I'm certain you're including people I play with and people on my friends list in that category, so my comment stands. It was 'virtually' a blanket insult to everyone playing templar that doesn't agree with you on your (again, poorly backed up) position. And also, bordering on a blanket insult to 'virtually' all female gamers, but I'll leave that one be.

I like how you admit you haven't even logged into the game in what? a month now? But are fighting so strongly for changes to a skill you aren't even seeing in action yourself.

Poxheart · March 2016

Still waiting for Frozn's video of him & 2 others spamming wrecking blow on a perma-blocking Zheg for 5 minutes.