(VIDEO) Beamplar - Jesus Beam - Working as Intended

OdinForge

AfkNinja wrote: »

Seems like it's not an issue for you in 1v1, and not to big of a deal in groups? It's all about 1vX'ing you're upset about? I see no reason to nerf Magplars so it's easier to 1vX, none at all.

To be fair Templar's don't get to "get away". Why should it be so easy for everyone else to get away from us? (I am a Stamplar, I don't use this skill anyway, and I have yet to have significant issues from it.)

If I win a 1vX I think "Awesome, good fight." If I lose a 1vX I think "NBD I was fighting 3 people." Why should anyone expect to consistently win 1vX fights? If they did wouldn't you expect a nerf? I don't think the devs want people 1vXing 3 or 4 people or more and winning.

I don't think anyone is asking to "nerf Templars", there may be some confusion among arguments here. Bear in mind I've only played TG twice and neither time I had an issue with RD, but the issues are there for many people and I've been on that side before. I happen to play a NB and RD is naturally easier for me to deal with, but it's overly frustrating for my DK and other classes.

When concealed weapon was going through dodge, people weren't asking to nerf NB as a result. It's the same mentality with RD. In some scenarios such as when you're outnumbered I believe it's simply over-performing, but not that it's "over-powered" per say.

Lexxypwns

OdinForge wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Seems like it's not an issue for you in 1v1, and not to big of a deal in groups? It's all about 1vX'ing you're upset about? I see no reason to nerf Magplars so it's easier to 1vX, none at all.

To be fair Templar's don't get to "get away". Why should it be so easy for everyone else to get away from us? (I am a Stamplar, I don't use this skill anyway, and I have yet to have significant issues from it.)

If I win a 1vX I think "Awesome, good fight." If I lose a 1vX I think "NBD I was fighting 3 people." Why should anyone expect to consistently win 1vX fights? If they did wouldn't you expect a nerf? I don't think the devs want people 1vXing 3 or 4 people or more and winning.

I don't think anyone is asking to "nerf Templars", there may be some confusion among arguments here. Bear in mind I've only played TG twice and neither time I had an issue with RD, but the issues are there for many people and I've been on that side before. I happen to play a NB and RD is naturally easier for me to deal with, but it's overly frustrating for my DK and other classes.

When concealed weapon was going through dodge, people weren't asking to nerf NB as a result. It's the same mentality with RD. In some scenarios such as when you're outnumbered I believe it's simply over-performing, but not that it's "over-powered" per say.

IF you or anyone else is having trouble with radiant destruction, slot purge. Its simple and aside from nullifying jesus beam it also increases your survivability overall in pvp to have purge

Darnathian

OdinForge wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Not a good comparison.

Impen, healing ward and heals can deal with snipers. Plus you have an additional roll dodge or block option if needed.

Stamina builds cannot dodge RD, and efficient purge cannot be sustained while random Templars simply reapply RD.
[/quote

Lexxypwns wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Seems like it's not an issue for you in 1v1, and not to big of a deal in groups? It's all about 1vX'ing you're upset about? I see no reason to nerf Magplars so it's easier to 1vX, none at all.

To be fair Templar's don't get to "get away". Why should it be so easy for everyone else to get away from us? (I am a Stamplar, I don't use this skill anyway, and I have yet to have significant issues from it.)

If I win a 1vX I think "Awesome, good fight." If I lose a 1vX I think "NBD I was fighting 3 people." Why should anyone expect to consistently win 1vX fights? If they did wouldn't you expect a nerf? I don't think the devs want people 1vXing 3 or 4 people or more and winning.

I don't think anyone is asking to "nerf Templars", there may be some confusion among arguments here. Bear in mind I've only played TG twice and neither time I had an issue with RD, but the issues are there for many people and I've been on that side before. I happen to play a NB and RD is naturally easier for me to deal with, but it's overly frustrating for my DK and other classes.

When concealed weapon was going through dodge, people weren't asking to nerf NB as a result. It's the same mentality with RD. In some scenarios such as when you're outnumbered I believe it's simply over-performing, but not that it's "over-powered" per say.

IF you or anyone else is having trouble with radiant destruction, slot purge. Its simple and aside from nullifying jesus beam it also increases your survivability overall in pvp to have purge

that's what's so funny they are all arguing that they shouldn't have to slot a counter LOL

Lexxypwns

Why should anyone need to slot anything they don't want to slot in their "perfect OP theorycrafted" builds. /sarcasm

Its as if everyone forgets that part of making an effective build is field testing, if your build is dying to this skill too often its not a good build, I'm sorry to hurt people's feelings but its the honest truth. With all the snares and various debuffs in the game you're not gimping your build to slot purge.

OdinForge

Lexxypwns wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Seems like it's not an issue for you in 1v1, and not to big of a deal in groups? It's all about 1vX'ing you're upset about? I see no reason to nerf Magplars so it's easier to 1vX, none at all.

To be fair Templar's don't get to "get away". Why should it be so easy for everyone else to get away from us? (I am a Stamplar, I don't use this skill anyway, and I have yet to have significant issues from it.)

If I win a 1vX I think "Awesome, good fight." If I lose a 1vX I think "NBD I was fighting 3 people." Why should anyone expect to consistently win 1vX fights? If they did wouldn't you expect a nerf? I don't think the devs want people 1vXing 3 or 4 people or more and winning.

I don't think anyone is asking to "nerf Templars", there may be some confusion among arguments here. Bear in mind I've only played TG twice and neither time I had an issue with RD, but the issues are there for many people and I've been on that side before. I happen to play a NB and RD is naturally easier for me to deal with, but it's overly frustrating for my DK and other classes.

When concealed weapon was going through dodge, people weren't asking to nerf NB as a result. It's the same mentality with RD. In some scenarios such as when you're outnumbered I believe it's simply over-performing, but not that it's "over-powered" per say.

IF you or anyone else is having trouble with radiant destruction, slot purge. Its simple and aside from nullifying jesus beam it also increases your survivability overall in pvp to have purge

IF you or anyone else is having trouble with radiant destruction, slot purge.

^ I think you need to read my previous posts one more time. Edit* since you probably won't, this was my statement regarding my own experience with RD in TG.

Bear in mind I've only played TG twice and neither time I had an issue with RD, but the issues are there for many people and I've been on that side before. I happen to play a NB and RD is naturally easier for me to deal with, but it's overly frustrating for my DK and other classes.

I happen to main a NB, but that doesn't discount the other classes.

I'll engage you here for a hot minute. You're talking to someone who used efficient purge (as a more efficient alternative) instead of cloak on his stamina NB since pre Craglorn to 1.5. Back when you couldn't spam offense mindlessly.

These days it's a different story. The cost of efficient purge for a stamina build is simply too high, versus the recasting cost of RD. For a NB cloak / image is the more efficient skill now, for other classes you will magout really fast.

It's just too easy as a Templar to sit in the back of a bunch of allies and use RD, this is my only argument. Templar got a nice damage boost this patch, the best Templars aren't even using RD from what I've experienced. This isn't a question about nerfing, it's simply a fact that RD is over-performing for players looking for an easy out. Many of the premier Templars would love to see a modified flashes brought back to the game instead.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Once I get my set I'll science it a bit. My ideas for VD was to use it purely for defensive purposes in 1vX since I struggle with that the most with my playstyle. Using it with RD to get kills will just be icing on the cake. Though, not something I suspect I will be doing a lot. We'll see.

AfkNinja

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the premier Templars would love to see a modified flashes brought back to the game instead.

I think almost 100% of Templar's who know what Blinding Flashes is want it back instead. Stop all the QQ about a skill they have NEVER been able to balance and Templar's never asked for in the first place (Radiant).

On a side note Odin I bet Magplars hate your DK just as much as you hate them being that only RD and Jabs works on DK's lol.

OdinForge

AfkNinja wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Many of the premier Templars would love to see a modified flashes brought back to the game instead.

I think almost 100% of Templar's who know what Blinding Flashes is want it back instead. Stop all the QQ about a skill they have NEVER been able to balance and Templar's never asked for in the first place (Radiant).

On a side note Odin I bet Magplars hate your DK just as much as you hate them being that only RD and Jabs works on DK's lol.

An understandable notion, my DK was a ***.

Alcast

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Again, if you have problems tanking WB spam, it is a problem with your build. I fight frequently magicka templars who can permablock/BoL spam that for days.

No, you cannot permablock as a magicka build Frozn. You're so biased I don't even know why people(myself included) respond to you anymore.

You can permablock as a magicka build. All you need is the right setup and race.

phillyboy7897

I'd love blinding flashes instead of radiant, I'd love any useful skill instead of it. Templars have many many garbage skills, I actually consider radiant to be among those.

That's not gonna happen though, if the tidal wave of tears and overdramatic representations does not stop, the damage will be nerfed on radiant for the 3rd? time... not sure it might be the 4th time, I wasn't around for some of that, and we will be given nothing.

Also it sets it up for the rest of templar skills to become under scrutiny, and if nightblades and sorcs can cry loud enough for a channel (worst form of attack in the game) to be nerfed, the others most likely will be too.

Templars can't tank as well in TG, we can't heal as well, if the dmg is gone too that's gonna be rough.

Guess it comes w/ being a temp 3rd best class option for PvP is too high up the list for us.

Sugaroverdose

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

I'd love blinding flashes instead of radiant, I'd love any useful skill instead of it. Templars have many many garbage skills, I actually consider radiant to be among those.

That's not gonna happen though, if the tidal wave of tears and overdramatic representations does not stop, the damage will be nerfed on radiant for the 3rd? time... not sure it might be the 4th time, I wasn't around for some of that, and we will be given nothing.

Also it sets it up for the rest of templar skills to become under scrutiny, and if nightblades and sorcs can cry loud enough for a channel (worst form of attack in the game) to be nerfed, the others most likely will be too.

Templars can't tank as well in TG, we can't heal as well, if the dmg is gone too that's gonna be rough.

Guess it comes w/ being a temp 3rd best class option for PvP is too high up the list for us.

Tryharders pissed of when templar don't die from proxy-tether 90% of time, and also kills them with sweeps and JB.
From my POV JB may be nerfed, but as part of overall damage output, or maybe with complete removal of execute mechanics.

Alcast wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its fine in 1v1..

Its most certainly overpowered in Xv1..or really XvX when you can't interrupt it

I'm honestly surprised more Magicka Templars aren't just spamming it with Vicious Death equipped.

Eh, in Xv1 every move is overpowered. As an example, snipe from stealth coupled with medium attack and camo hunter will *** you up especially when people already focusing on you. Even snipe spam alone is enough to give you trouble with its heal debuff and 7k dmg per hit. Somehow no one complains about it but they do about beam. I don't get it.

You can hear a snipe coming, and you can avoid it by roll dodging without having to single-out the sniper out from the crowd. Heck, you will probably avoid it by default because you are already dodging all the other attacks - including multiple other snipers. Compare that to a beam that you need to deal with by specifically targeting one guy out of a crowd, and that still does nothing to stop any other potential beamers.

In anything beyond 1v1, comparing the ease of defense against a beam to the ease of defense against a snipe is so far off the mark it's not even funny.

If I have to use my stamina to dodge roll all these snipes, you can use you magicka to purge all the RDs targeted at you.

At least you can see the stupid beam. I haven't heard a snipe in 3 weeks.

Purge and roll dodge are not really comparable. For starters, you do not have to slot dodge roll in order to be able to use it. But you're telling a stamina build with no magicka to spare to waste a quickbar slot on an ability for countering one specific attack, and ineffectively too, since the templar can afford to reapply the beam indefinitely while the stamina build can purge maybe twice.

Telling a stamina build to defend itself with purge is like telling a magicka build to defend itself with caltrops.

And come on, the game has been out for years. You cannot hear snipes for 3 weeks? That's something that should be fixed in an incremental, not used in arguments about game balancing.

What you are basically saying is that it is acceptable for magicka players to have to use their non-dedicated resource, which is inefficient and only can be done a limited time, to counter stamina based attacks like snipe ... but is problematic when stamina players have to use their non-dedicated resource to counter a magicka based attack lie RD because it is inefficient and can only be done a limited time.

Again, if you have problems tanking WB spam, it is a problem with your build. I fight frequently magicka templars who can permablock/BoL spam that for days.

No, you cannot permablock as a magicka build Frozn. You're so biased I don't even know why people(myself included) respond to you anymore.

You can permablock as a magicka build. All you need is the right setup and race.

Templar don't have magicka=>stamina trade option, only repentance, so you need to kill a bunch of people on big distance between them to permablock.
Also all templar attacks are channeling or have cast time (sweeps,jb,dark flare), so as templar you cannot block cast like nightblade or dk: or you defensive or offensive and period of time when you can be offensive is really small in 1vX situations or when you meet experienced player with descent dps.

I don't even talking about tallons which disables magplar completely when spammed in combo with deep breath

Xsorus

So are all the 60k Hp Templars running fsalla set? cause that seems like the type of setup that would run it.

caeliusstarbreaker

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

OdinForge

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

Sugaroverdose

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

_Chaos

I couldn't 1v4 two templars and two stam blades last night.

RD must be nerfed, it's the only reason that could happen.

Joy_Division

OdinForge wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

Just because he shares the same opinion as you, does not mean he is right.

timidobserver

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Gotta agree. I would take 2-3 radiants at full health over 2-3 wb+jabs any day.

Ryuho

Remove jesus beam, bring back blinding flashes and maybe finally ppls won't Qq about jesus beam.. oh wait they will find something else, lets see.. yes javelin is to OP casue its CC u!! Nerf Nerf Nerf needed

caeliusstarbreaker

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

Sugaroverdose

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

Complaining about RD wasn't always here, and ZOS did huge nerf to magplars in TG(when people start to complain), so if you not playing magplar at least as second char - your feedback can't be counted as unbiased.

In fact i do agree to see radiant oppression as instacast with same damage and twice reduced cost, i does even agree to see blinding flashes as replacement. But i do not agree that RD is OP, it does monstrous damage only on glass canon as well as proxydet/frags and so on.

Zheg

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

That's hardly been the main argument; I'd avoid trying try portray it as such. I'm strongest on my templar out of all of my alts, but frankly that's more to do with the hours I've clocked on him than anything else. Do I feel like my templar is garbage? No, but I feel like I have to work harder and sacrifice more to be viable, and had I put in the hours on my NB or sorc that I had on my templar, I'd be that much stronger. One of the biggest indicators for me has always been when I do want to play an alt, I have such a hard time trying to fit all of the skills I want to fit onto my bar and always feel grumpy about what I have to leave behind. I don't struggle anywhere near enough with my templar bars. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I think it speaks volumes. I'd also offer that the other three classes are probably far closer to wrobel's "vision" for each than the templar is, and that should imply balance issues. If jesus beam was truly broken and OP I'd say it should be toned down, but it's not, and no one has been able to give evidence proving otherwise. The 'videos' have been lul-worthy jokes and are shot down as soon as they go up. Most templars are frustrated with the current issues plaguing the class and with wrobel's incompetence; we also know what happens when wrobel goes in to balance something class specific, been there, got the t-shirt. Sending him in with duct tape when the skill is above average but hardly OP will result in us being in a far worse spot than we are now, and for little benefit to balance - particularly when compared to the real OP skills and combos in the game. Does no one else find it hilarious how much QQ jesus beam has generated vs. the other utterly and obviously broken crap in game right now? This point has been alluded to in every one of these stupid jesus beam threads, but yet they still keep popping up and I see no where near the same attention given to the real broken skills. In Jules' QQ thread she ended up posting a pic of her nb with over 4k magicka regen, like 47k magicka, 3.5k or so spell damage, and about 22k hp - and then had the gall to insist she only cared about balance. What would be the prox det+tether combo on a build like that? But yeah, jesus beam OP folks

Most if not all of us would prefer to have blinding flashes back, even at the expense of jesus beam. Most if not all of us realize that jesus beam is NOT as strong as people here are trying to portray it in non execute range, and if it were, all of the l33t templars worried about their egos if they don't jump on the bandwagon would actually be using it in the situations that they say it's OP.

"Jesus beam is OP at high health!"
well why don't you actually use it at high health then?
"Well, because I'm good at templar. It's not optimal and it's a dps loss, it's better for me to use dark flare"
is it really all that OP if you aren't even using it in those situations?
"Jesus beam is OP at high health because reasons!"

The above is pretty much how every conversation has gone when a 'good templar' jumps into the fray.

AfkNinja

Zheg wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

That's hardly been the main argument; I'd avoid trying try portray it as such. I'm strongest on my templar out of all of my alts, but frankly that's more to do with the hours I've clocked on him than anything else. Do I feel like my templar is garbage? No, but I feel like I have to work harder and sacrifice more to be viable, and had I put in the hours on my NB or sorc that I had on my templar, I'd be that much stronger. One of the biggest indicators for me has always been when I do want to play an alt, I have such a hard time trying to fit all of the skills I want to fit onto my bar and always feel grumpy about what I have to leave behind. I don't struggle anywhere near enough with my templar bars. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I think it speaks volumes. I'd also offer that the other three classes are probably far closer to wrobel's "vision" for each than the templar is, and that should imply balance issues. If jesus beam was truly broken and OP I'd say it should be toned down, but it's not, and no one has been able to give evidence proving otherwise. The 'videos' have been lul-worthy jokes and are shot down as soon as they go up. Most templars are frustrated with the current issues plaguing the class and with wrobel's incompetence; we also know what happens when wrobel goes in to balance something class specific, been there, got the t-shirt. Sending him in with duct tape when the skill is above average but hardly OP will result in us being in a far worse spot than we are now, and for little benefit to balance - particularly when compared to the real OP skills and combos in the game. Does no one else find it hilarious how much QQ jesus beam has generated vs. the other utterly and obviously broken crap in game right now? This point has been alluded to in every one of these stupid jesus beam threads, but yet they still keep popping up and I see no where near the same attention given to the real broken skills. In Jules' QQ thread she ended up posting a pic of her nb with over 4k magicka regen, like 47k magicka, 3.5k or so spell damage, and about 22k hp - and then had the gall to insist she only cared about balance. What would be the prox det+tether combo on a build like that? But yeah, jesus beam OP folks

Most if not all of us would prefer to have blinding flashes back, even at the expense of jesus beam. Most if not all of us realize that jesus beam is NOT as strong as people here are trying to portray it in non execute range, and if it were, all of the l33t templars worried about their egos if they don't jump on the bandwagon would actually be using it in the situations that they say it's OP.

"Jesus beam is OP at high health!"
well why don't you actually use it at high health then?
"Well, because I'm good at templar. It's not optimal and it's a dps loss, it's better for me to use dark flare"
is it really all that OP if you aren't even using it in those situations?
"Jesus beam is OP at high health because reasons!"

The above is pretty much how every conversation has gone when a 'good templar' jumps into the fray.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

I don't even play Magplar and I find all these threads completely ridiculous and biased. All the evidence provided so far has shown me is that Templar's who spec full glass cannon can now kill a few people (one at a time I might add) but to do so they turn into a wet paper bag and die at a swift gust of wind.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

frozywozy

I've tried running with efficient purge and I find myself running OOM pretty quickly. Not worth for a stam DK who also run Igneous Shield, Hardened Armor and Dragon Fire Scales. It's allright though. Gina said that they don't intend to change the way it works. I'll just resolve on sieging with my stone cold trebs sitting in the back just as they do spamming RD behind 15 friends. Sounds like fun!

leepalmer95

AfkNinja wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

That's hardly been the main argument; I'd avoid trying try portray it as such. I'm strongest on my templar out of all of my alts, but frankly that's more to do with the hours I've clocked on him than anything else. Do I feel like my templar is garbage? No, but I feel like I have to work harder and sacrifice more to be viable, and had I put in the hours on my NB or sorc that I had on my templar, I'd be that much stronger. One of the biggest indicators for me has always been when I do want to play an alt, I have such a hard time trying to fit all of the skills I want to fit onto my bar and always feel grumpy about what I have to leave behind. I don't struggle anywhere near enough with my templar bars. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I think it speaks volumes. I'd also offer that the other three classes are probably far closer to wrobel's "vision" for each than the templar is, and that should imply balance issues. If jesus beam was truly broken and OP I'd say it should be toned down, but it's not, and no one has been able to give evidence proving otherwise. The 'videos' have been lul-worthy jokes and are shot down as soon as they go up. Most templars are frustrated with the current issues plaguing the class and with wrobel's incompetence; we also know what happens when wrobel goes in to balance something class specific, been there, got the t-shirt. Sending him in with duct tape when the skill is above average but hardly OP will result in us being in a far worse spot than we are now, and for little benefit to balance - particularly when compared to the real OP skills and combos in the game. Does no one else find it hilarious how much QQ jesus beam has generated vs. the other utterly and obviously broken crap in game right now? This point has been alluded to in every one of these stupid jesus beam threads, but yet they still keep popping up and I see no where near the same attention given to the real broken skills. In Jules' QQ thread she ended up posting a pic of her nb with over 4k magicka regen, like 47k magicka, 3.5k or so spell damage, and about 22k hp - and then had the gall to insist she only cared about balance. What would be the prox det+tether combo on a build like that? But yeah, jesus beam OP folks

Most if not all of us would prefer to have blinding flashes back, even at the expense of jesus beam. Most if not all of us realize that jesus beam is NOT as strong as people here are trying to portray it in non execute range, and if it were, all of the l33t templars worried about their egos if they don't jump on the bandwagon would actually be using it in the situations that they say it's OP.

"Jesus beam is OP at high health!"
well why don't you actually use it at high health then?
"Well, because I'm good at templar. It's not optimal and it's a dps loss, it's better for me to use dark flare"
is it really all that OP if you aren't even using it in those situations?
"Jesus beam is OP at high health because reasons!"

The above is pretty much how every conversation has gone when a 'good templar' jumps into the fray.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

I don't even play Magplar and I find all these threads completely ridiculous and biased. All the evidence provided so far has shown me is that Templar's who spec full glass cannon can now kill a few people (one at a time I might add) but to do so they turn into a wet paper bag and die at a swift gust of wind.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

No one ever ignores templars, there the ones who are called out and killed first for obvious reasons...

caeliusstarbreaker

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

Complaining about RD wasn't always here, and ZOS did huge nerf to magplars in TG(when people start to complain), so if you not playing magplar at least as second char - your feedback can't be counted as unbiased.

In fact i do agree to see radiant oppression as instacast with same damage and twice reduced cost, i does even agree to see blinding flashes as replacement. But i do not agree that RD is OP, it does monstrous damage only on glass canon as well as proxydet/frags and so on.

I'm not talking about the valid arguments and point counter point on each side man. I'm talking about the intermediary nonsense that is also littered in this post.

Just because I don't play a magplar at the current time does not count my feedback as moot, just the same as because you play a magplar does not make your feedback devoid of bias.

Zheg wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

That's hardly been the main argument; I'd avoid trying try portray it as such. I'm strongest on my templar out of all of my alts, but frankly that's more to do with the hours I've clocked on him than anything else. Do I feel like my templar is garbage? No, but I feel like I have to work harder and sacrifice more to be viable, and had I put in the hours on my NB or sorc that I had on my templar, I'd be that much stronger. One of the biggest indicators for me has always been when I do want to play an alt, I have such a hard time trying to fit all of the skills I want to fit onto my bar and always feel grumpy about what I have to leave behind. I don't struggle anywhere near enough with my templar bars. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I think it speaks volumes. I'd also offer that the other three classes are probably far closer to wrobel's "vision" for each than the templar is, and that should imply balance issues. If jesus beam was truly broken and OP I'd say it should be toned down, but it's not, and no one has been able to give evidence proving otherwise. The 'videos' have been lul-worthy jokes and are shot down as soon as they go up. Most templars are frustrated with the current issues plaguing the class and with wrobel's incompetence; we also know what happens when wrobel goes in to balance something class specific, been there, got the t-shirt. Sending him in with duct tape when the skill is above average but hardly OP will result in us being in a far worse spot than we are now, and for little benefit to balance - particularly when compared to the real OP skills and combos in the game. Does no one else find it hilarious how much QQ jesus beam has generated vs. the other utterly and obviously broken crap in game right now? This point has been alluded to in every one of these stupid jesus beam threads, but yet they still keep popping up and I see no where near the same attention given to the real broken skills. In Jules' QQ thread she ended up posting a pic of her nb with over 4k magicka regen, like 47k magicka, 3.5k or so spell damage, and about 22k hp - and then had the gall to insist she only cared about balance. What would be the prox det+tether combo on a build like that? But yeah, jesus beam OP folks

Most if not all of us would prefer to have blinding flashes back, even at the expense of jesus beam. Most if not all of us realize that jesus beam is NOT as strong as people here are trying to portray it in non execute range, and if it were, all of the l33t templars worried about their egos if they don't jump on the bandwagon would actually be using it in the situations that they say it's OP.

"Jesus beam is OP at high health!"
well why don't you actually use it at high health then?
"Well, because I'm good at templar. It's not optimal and it's a dps loss, it's better for me to use dark flare"
is it really all that OP if you aren't even using it in those situations?
"Jesus beam is OP at high health because reasons!"

The above is pretty much how every conversation has gone when a 'good templar' jumps into the fray.

I'm not stipulating that it's the main argument. I'm stipulating that the crux of what are dealing with is people's reactions to using and being hit with radiant, judging by who is advocating for or against, with variable opinions in between on whether it is deemed OP or too strong. It certainly has it's own elements to it that make it more frustrating than other abilities, as to why it's such a highly contested topic. My voiced displeasure is with the many opinions that Templars suck so let us have this, which gives an eerie feel that Magplar nation has a Devilish grin on their face as if the know they are cheesing every time the hit that button on their skill bar.

For the record I'm not against radiant being a thing, I'm not against radiant being undodgeable, I'm not against it hitting hard. I'm not mentioning any other skills cause this is a post about the beam.

Joy_Division

frozywozy wrote: »

I've tried running with efficient purge and I find myself running OOM pretty quickly. Not worth for a stam DK who also run Igneous Shield, Hardened Armor and Dragon Fire Scales. It's allright though. Gina said that they don't intend to change the way it works. I'll just resolve on sieging with my stone cold trebs sitting in the back just as they do spamming RD behind 15 friends. Sounds like fun!

Odd statement considering you have long advocated that siege ought to be the proper and effective counter blobs of enemies.

I still think you are too good of a player to be intimidated by RD as it is an unremarkable skill that only does modest DPS most of the times you are attacked by it.

OdinForge

AfkNinja wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

That's hardly been the main argument; I'd avoid trying try portray it as such. I'm strongest on my templar out of all of my alts, but frankly that's more to do with the hours I've clocked on him than anything else. Do I feel like my templar is garbage? No, but I feel like I have to work harder and sacrifice more to be viable, and had I put in the hours on my NB or sorc that I had on my templar, I'd be that much stronger. One of the biggest indicators for me has always been when I do want to play an alt, I have such a hard time trying to fit all of the skills I want to fit onto my bar and always feel grumpy about what I have to leave behind. I don't struggle anywhere near enough with my templar bars. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I think it speaks volumes. I'd also offer that the other three classes are probably far closer to wrobel's "vision" for each than the templar is, and that should imply balance issues. If jesus beam was truly broken and OP I'd say it should be toned down, but it's not, and no one has been able to give evidence proving otherwise. The 'videos' have been lul-worthy jokes and are shot down as soon as they go up. Most templars are frustrated with the current issues plaguing the class and with wrobel's incompetence; we also know what happens when wrobel goes in to balance something class specific, been there, got the t-shirt. Sending him in with duct tape when the skill is above average but hardly OP will result in us being in a far worse spot than we are now, and for little benefit to balance - particularly when compared to the real OP skills and combos in the game. Does no one else find it hilarious how much QQ jesus beam has generated vs. the other utterly and obviously broken crap in game right now? This point has been alluded to in every one of these stupid jesus beam threads, but yet they still keep popping up and I see no where near the same attention given to the real broken skills. In Jules' QQ thread she ended up posting a pic of her nb with over 4k magicka regen, like 47k magicka, 3.5k or so spell damage, and about 22k hp - and then had the gall to insist she only cared about balance. What would be the prox det+tether combo on a build like that? But yeah, jesus beam OP folks

Most if not all of us would prefer to have blinding flashes back, even at the expense of jesus beam. Most if not all of us realize that jesus beam is NOT as strong as people here are trying to portray it in non execute range, and if it were, all of the l33t templars worried about their egos if they don't jump on the bandwagon would actually be using it in the situations that they say it's OP.

"Jesus beam is OP at high health!"
well why don't you actually use it at high health then?
"Well, because I'm good at templar. It's not optimal and it's a dps loss, it's better for me to use dark flare"
is it really all that OP if you aren't even using it in those situations?
"Jesus beam is OP at high health because reasons!"

The above is pretty much how every conversation has gone when a 'good templar' jumps into the fray.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

I don't even play Magplar and I find all these threads completely ridiculous and biased. All the evidence provided so far has shown me is that Templar's who spec full glass cannon can now kill a few people (one at a time I might add) but to do so they turn into a wet paper bag and die at a swift gust of wind.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

You're freely entitled to your opinion, RD likely will not change regardless of what any of us say. But here is the problem with your reasoning.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

You basically admit in the quote above that RD in its current form, gives average to bad players a way to safely spam high DPS from the back of a crowd, not doing any real work. You don't see NB doing this, because getting close to spam impale would result in their death. You shouldn't reward bad players for not investing the time into their class, to learn how to become a threat aside from spamming one button in the back of a crowd.

No one fears average or bad NB, they are also a dime a dozen. In the two days I played TG (weeks apart) I ran into many average NB copycats trying the whole bomb you from stealth trick. A good player will pickup a NB and adapt to the class, and pull of crazy bombs. Just like a good player will also pickup Templar and play it right, as seen from many rerolls (this is the case with every class). An average or bad player will try and fail, and get killed over and over again. NB is a damage oriented class, while Templar is a healing oriented class. NB is the best at pulling off bombs, if that's your main goal. But good Templars are currently using prox and their own class based tools to be extremely deadly.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

This doesn't have anything to do with anyone's arguments..the issue is when you have average or bad Templars simply spamming only RD from the back of a group against solo targets.

The idea that bad players should be rewarded for things like RD spam, is the type of recurring fundamentally wrong issue with ESO PvP. If this is your ultimate idea of balance, I guess that's entirely okay. Seeing as how ZOS is practically destroying PvP every patch, it doesn't really matter what anyone says.

I'm not really invested in this game anymore, so that's my final opinion on the matter.

AfkNinja

OdinForge wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just slightly embarrassed as a Templar, that other Templars are so vehemently portraying us as always being nothing but punching bags in Cyrodiil, as a justification/defense of a skill.
Regardless of my personal opinion of aforementioned skill, people really need to stop clinging to the reasoning that Templar is so trash that it deserves to have something that can be perceived as broken.

The "many" counters to radiant are just as irritating to accomplish, or make use of, given the context of the pvp environment, as at times the woefully clunkiness of the class itself. Or even the game itself, for that matter.

So, just kick off RD from your bar and be pride, that you're not such sucker like the others.

UPD: oh, you're stamplar. wtf do you know about magplar issues then? WB->Jabs animation cancelling is other issue and not connected to RD.

Wasn't always a stamplar man, and considering this is basically a QQ thread between people that use radiant vs people that get attacked with radiant, speckled with decisions abound on all sides, I've decided to voice my opinion, which is that Templars have never been a punching bag class, yes there are counters to the skill however unrealistic at times they are to pull off, and for people to use the excuse of "let the Templars have one "broken" skill cause oh my god we soooo bads" is ludicrous.

That's hardly been the main argument; I'd avoid trying try portray it as such. I'm strongest on my templar out of all of my alts, but frankly that's more to do with the hours I've clocked on him than anything else. Do I feel like my templar is garbage? No, but I feel like I have to work harder and sacrifice more to be viable, and had I put in the hours on my NB or sorc that I had on my templar, I'd be that much stronger. One of the biggest indicators for me has always been when I do want to play an alt, I have such a hard time trying to fit all of the skills I want to fit onto my bar and always feel grumpy about what I have to leave behind. I don't struggle anywhere near enough with my templar bars. Yes, it's anecdotal, but I think it speaks volumes. I'd also offer that the other three classes are probably far closer to wrobel's "vision" for each than the templar is, and that should imply balance issues. If jesus beam was truly broken and OP I'd say it should be toned down, but it's not, and no one has been able to give evidence proving otherwise. The 'videos' have been lul-worthy jokes and are shot down as soon as they go up. Most templars are frustrated with the current issues plaguing the class and with wrobel's incompetence; we also know what happens when wrobel goes in to balance something class specific, been there, got the t-shirt. Sending him in with duct tape when the skill is above average but hardly OP will result in us being in a far worse spot than we are now, and for little benefit to balance - particularly when compared to the real OP skills and combos in the game. Does no one else find it hilarious how much QQ jesus beam has generated vs. the other utterly and obviously broken crap in game right now? This point has been alluded to in every one of these stupid jesus beam threads, but yet they still keep popping up and I see no where near the same attention given to the real broken skills. In Jules' QQ thread she ended up posting a pic of her nb with over 4k magicka regen, like 47k magicka, 3.5k or so spell damage, and about 22k hp - and then had the gall to insist she only cared about balance. What would be the prox det+tether combo on a build like that? But yeah, jesus beam OP folks

Most if not all of us would prefer to have blinding flashes back, even at the expense of jesus beam. Most if not all of us realize that jesus beam is NOT as strong as people here are trying to portray it in non execute range, and if it were, all of the l33t templars worried about their egos if they don't jump on the bandwagon would actually be using it in the situations that they say it's OP.

"Jesus beam is OP at high health!"
well why don't you actually use it at high health then?
"Well, because I'm good at templar. It's not optimal and it's a dps loss, it's better for me to use dark flare"
is it really all that OP if you aren't even using it in those situations?
"Jesus beam is OP at high health because reasons!"

The above is pretty much how every conversation has gone when a 'good templar' jumps into the fray.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

I don't even play Magplar and I find all these threads completely ridiculous and biased. All the evidence provided so far has shown me is that Templar's who spec full glass cannon can now kill a few people (one at a time I might add) but to do so they turn into a wet paper bag and die at a swift gust of wind.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

You're freely entitled to your opinion, RD likely will not change regardless of what any of us say. But here is the problem with your reasoning.

It's cause people aren't used to having to watch out for Templar's. Although good Templar's in previous patches could be a threat the ave templar just wasn't and people were used to ignoring them. Now the ave to bad Templar's can just beam them to get some decent DPS and they hate it cause it takes no skill, they refuse to slot counters or use LOS and just call for nerfs instead. Meanwhile there are MUCH more OP things in the game but for some reason Templar's keep getting singled out?

People aren't used to watching out for average Templars, because the class seems to practically only draw average players (in other words, the girlfriend support class of ESO). There are great Templars in this game that are legitimate threats, and have been every patch (group, 1v1, 1vx etc), virtually all of which have given their opinion that RD is broken in some applications of the game.

You basically admit in the quote above that RD in its current form, gives average to bad players a way to safely spam high DPS from the back of a crowd, not doing any real work. You don't see NB doing this, because getting close to spam impale would result in their death. You shouldn't reward bad players for not investing the time into their class, to learn how to become a threat aside from spamming one button in the back of a crowd.

No one fears average or bad NB, they are also a dime a dozen. In the two days I played TG (weeks apart) I ran into many average NB copycats trying the whole bomb you from stealth trick. A good player will pickup a NB and adapt to the class, and pull of crazy bombs. Just like a good player will also pickup Templar and play it right, as seen from many rerolls (this is the case with every class). An average or bad player will try and fail, and get killed over and over again. NB is a damage oriented class, while Templar is a healing oriented class. NB is the best at pulling off bombs, if that's your main goal. But good Templars are currently using prox and their own class based tools to be extremely deadly.

No one seems to care when a NB drops them in less than 3 seconds but heaven forbid a Templar do it in 6.

This doesn't have anything to do with anyone's arguments..the issue is when you have average or bad Templars simply spamming only RD from the back of a group against solo targets.

The idea that bad players should be rewarded for things like RD spam, is the type of recurring fundamentally wrong issue with ESO PvP. If this is your ultimate idea of balance, I guess that's entirely okay. Seeing as how ZOS is practically destroying PvP every patch, it doesn't really matter what anyone says.

I'm not really invested in this game anymore, so that's my final opinion on the matter.

Actually I stated it gives bad Templar's a way to do average dps because above 50% it's not good dps it's average (You can tell because good Templar's wont use it at 100%). Also you are exaggerating when you say "virtually all good templar's agree it's OP", that is not in any way shape or form correct. There are just as many "good" Templar's who think it's fine and people need to just use one of the counters for it.

You yourself said you feel it's fine 1v1 and group v group. You mainly had a problem with it in 1vX where the Templar can stand back and beam you without consequence. Why do you care if they beam you at 100% when Dark Flare would truck you much harder at 100%? Would you rather those templar stand back and spam dark flare and javelin for interrupts? Not to mention there are times when a Templar's only option is to use the beam such as when a stamina class is spamming dodge roll and beam is the only thing that will hit them. Or when a DK is spamming scales and beam is the only thing that will hit them...

Frankly I am sick of the debate as well, people are going to keep spamming these threads till it's nerfed so frack it. ZOS bring it on. Just delete the thing and give us back blinding flashes.

phillyboy7897

Thx for insulting ppl who play temp.

"Oh noes the baddies can get kills!!"

You're doing it wrong if you're getting wrecked by RD.

Look, watch for the giant white beam. If you're at full health when the beam appears a terrible player is attacking you and telling you where they are.

Remove it with purge into a dodgeroll, then keep in mind, free kill in that direction, probably in robes using a staff.

If... you are stam DK or stam sorc use other options if it runs you OOM. Stam sorc obviously can just move out of range. I don't know what stam DK's other options are, but they have them.

Every single other class can purge this fine, over and over again. RD is not a cheap spell to cast.

Or don't dude, just play wrong and scream for nerfs.