So why was regen while blocking ever taken away?

JubJub · March 2016

I started around the time it was removed so I never got to see what it was like, doesn't seem like anyone even wanted it removed.
Doesn't that pretty much make heavy armor boderline useless in pvp atleast since it's passives are kind of niche?

i3ig_Gun · March 2016

I hated and still hate the change.

it was a quick fix to a PvP problem with perma-blockers... that bled off into PvE...

WalkingLegacy · March 2016

It's not a problem in PvP. Tanks are hella tanky, annoying and fun to watch in PvP.

Nestor · March 2016

They got rid of Perma Block Spell Casting and now they have Shield Stacking.

I don't understand the issue myself, but it really seemed to chalf some PvP'rs. However now instead of Holding Block, just apply it when you need to. Even though it was not necessary to change it in my mind, it is easy to deal with.

Bashev · March 2016

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

JubJub · March 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

It's not a problem in PvP. Tanks are hella tanky, annoying and fun to watch in PvP.

I agree I'm a tank in pvp but it's pretty tough keeping up with others since most are running high damage/pen builds, you can only block for so long if stam regen were brought back it'd be alot more interesting tanking in pvp.

starkerealm · March 2016

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

umagon · March 2016

Because a certain combat dev seems to go to extremes when changing things. To counter block casting all they had to do is increase the cost of using a skill while blocking. That way people could cast while blocking, but add some balance where they could not maintain a high offense and high defense for extended periods of time only momentarily. Instead they decided they needed to do something that jeopardizes tanks. Do not get me started on the "change" to heavy armor's skill.

Xendyn · March 2016

I thought it was (according to Wroebel) to make tanking "fun" again.
Are you not having fun?

WalkingLegacy · March 2016

Xendyn wrote: »

I thought it was (according to Wroebel) to make tanking "fun" again.
Are you not having fun?

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

The forums were still on a roll of getting DK's nerfed. They said things about making PVE tanking more engaging but we all know the real reason, killing a good DK required one to git gud and that was just to much to ask.

Teridaxus · March 2016

People didn't die after 10 seconds after getting ambushed by a small group of gankers.
Sigh...i miss to tank 3-4 ambushers for 2-3 minutes so they just leave out of boredom, now i just go down after a while since heavy got a terrible resource managment...

Korah_Eaglecry · March 2016

The people that complained the most were players that never even bothered building a Tank. They simply saw players being successful at something while having NO clue about the sacrifices and short comings those players were forced to undergo to obtain that. Same issue with the Nightblades and their success. They were good at something, very good at it. And every player who couldnt tell you the first thing about what made that build successful complained because they refused to adapt. Even when others would unload a truck load of knowledge on them about how to counter it.

bowmanz607 · March 2016

The issue was being able to perma-block because of high regeneration and mitigating all damage to almost nothing, while avoiding most cc, and being able to output solid damage at the same time. I welcomed the change. Even as a player who was doing that for awhile. It is still very possible to make a perma-block build, but you lack sustain when you spam abilities while blocking now and can't output damage. Imo, it balanced out how a tank should operate. Aka, make a build that takes a ton of damage, without being able to output solid damage.

To your point about heavy armor OP, it does need to be reworked. It is crap.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The forums were still on a roll of getting DK's nerfed. They said things about making PVE tanking more engaging but we all know the real reason, killing a good DK required one to git gud and that was just to much to ask.

Dk was already in the garbage by this point. Dk fell off with 1.6. This change was not implemented until IC if I recall correctly

And look, all of those tanks yelling about issues with dungeons that would occur figured it out and tank just fine now. In fact, it added extra dimensions to tanking and more situational awatness seperatong thw good tanks from thw bad ones rather than just holding block. Also, perma-blockers in pvp were balanced properly.

Jhunn · March 2016

Was one of the worst decisions in ESO history, and that says alot. Done to cater to a lot of scrubby QQers who were mad they couldn't instakill some players.

#BringBackStamRegenWhileBlocking

bowmanz607 · March 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The people that complained the most were players that never even bothered building a Tank. They simply saw players being successful at something while having NO clue about the sacrifices and short comings those players were forced to undergo to obtain that. Same issue with the Nightblades and their success. They were good at something, very good at it. And every player who couldnt tell you the first thing about what made that build successful complained because they refused to adapt. Even when others would unload a truck load of knowledge on them about how to counter it.

I completely disagree. There was little sacrifice. It was very simple to make a build that could perma-block while putting out solid dps. No sacrifices needed.

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue was being able to perma-block because of high regeneration and mitigating all damage to almost nothing, while avoiding most cc, and being able to output solid damage at the same time. I welcomed the change. Even as a player who was doing that for awhile. It is still very possible to make a perma-block build, but you lack sustain when you spam abilities while blocking now and can't output damage. Imo, it balanced out how a tank should operate. Aka, make a build that takes a ton of damage, without being able to output solid damage.

To your point about heavy armor OP, it does need to be reworked. It is crap.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The forums were still on a roll of getting DK's nerfed. They said things about making PVE tanking more engaging but we all know the real reason, killing a good DK required one to git gud and that was just to much to ask.

Dk was already in the garbage by this point. Dk fell off with 1.6. This change was not implemented until IC if I recall correctly

And look, all of those tanks yelling about issues with dungeons that would occur figured it out and tank just fine now. In fact, it added extra dimensions to tanking and more situational awatness seperatong thw good tanks from thw bad ones rather than just holding block. Also, perma-blockers in pvp were balanced properly.

No DK's were still pretty good in 1.6 they just weren't god mode anymore, the main issue they had was broken nirn but that was effecting magicka builds across the board.

JubJub · March 2016

Jhunn wrote: »

Was one of the worst decisions in ESO history, and that says alot. Done to cater to a lot of scrubby QQers who were mad they couldn't instakill some players.

#BringBackStamRegenWhileBlocking

When I killed some gankers I was told heavy armor amd stam dks were op....

bowmanz607 · March 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue was being able to perma-block because of high regeneration and mitigating all damage to almost nothing, while avoiding most cc, and being able to output solid damage at the same time. I welcomed the change. Even as a player who was doing that for awhile. It is still very possible to make a perma-block build, but you lack sustain when you spam abilities while blocking now and can't output damage. Imo, it balanced out how a tank should operate. Aka, make a build that takes a ton of damage, without being able to output solid damage.

To your point about heavy armor OP, it does need to be reworked. It is crap.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The forums were still on a roll of getting DK's nerfed. They said things about making PVE tanking more engaging but we all know the real reason, killing a good DK required one to git gud and that was just to much to ask.

Dk was already in the garbage by this point. Dk fell off with 1.6. This change was not implemented until IC if I recall correctly

And look, all of those tanks yelling about issues with dungeons that would occur figured it out and tank just fine now. In fact, it added extra dimensions to tanking and more situational awatness seperatong thw good tanks from thw bad ones rather than just holding block. Also, perma-blockers in pvp were balanced properly.

No DK's were still pretty good in 1.6 they just weren't god mode anymore, the main issue they had was broken nirn but that was effecting magicka builds across the board.

What killed them, outside of n8rn, was the damage types for one thing. Such as magic attacks doing physical damage. Plus, the fact that there was a way to reduce dots without a way to increase them.

Ghost-Shot · March 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue was being able to perma-block because of high regeneration and mitigating all damage to almost nothing, while avoiding most cc, and being able to output solid damage at the same time. I welcomed the change. Even as a player who was doing that for awhile. It is still very possible to make a perma-block build, but you lack sustain when you spam abilities while blocking now and can't output damage. Imo, it balanced out how a tank should operate. Aka, make a build that takes a ton of damage, without being able to output solid damage.

To your point about heavy armor OP, it does need to be reworked. It is crap.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The forums were still on a roll of getting DK's nerfed. They said things about making PVE tanking more engaging but we all know the real reason, killing a good DK required one to git gud and that was just to much to ask.

Dk was already in the garbage by this point. Dk fell off with 1.6. This change was not implemented until IC if I recall correctly

And look, all of those tanks yelling about issues with dungeons that would occur figured it out and tank just fine now. In fact, it added extra dimensions to tanking and more situational awatness seperatong thw good tanks from thw bad ones rather than just holding block. Also, perma-blockers in pvp were balanced properly.

No DK's were still pretty good in 1.6 they just weren't god mode anymore, the main issue they had was broken nirn but that was effecting magicka builds across the board.

What killed them, outside of n8rn, was the damage types for one thing. Such as magic attacks doing physical damage. Plus, the fact that there was a way to reduce dots without a way to increase them.

Those were issues sure but the DK was far from broken in 1.6, lots of people were able to perform very well because even though we were low on burst and mobility compared to other specs we could still tank. You could block and keep your stamina up and you could reliably heal with dragons blood.

DKsUnite · March 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue was being able to perma-block because of high regeneration and mitigating all damage to almost nothing, while avoiding most cc, and being able to output solid damage at the same time. I welcomed the change. Even as a player who was doing that for awhile. It is still very possible to make a perma-block build, but you lack sustain when you spam abilities while blocking now and can't output damage. Imo, it balanced out how a tank should operate. Aka, make a build that takes a ton of damage, without being able to output solid damage.

To your point about heavy armor OP, it does need to be reworked. It is crap.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

The forums were still on a roll of getting DK's nerfed. They said things about making PVE tanking more engaging but we all know the real reason, killing a good DK required one to git gud and that was just to much to ask.

Dk was already in the garbage by this point. Dk fell off with 1.6. This change was not implemented until IC if I recall correctly

And look, all of those tanks yelling about issues with dungeons that would occur figured it out and tank just fine now. In fact, it added extra dimensions to tanking and more situational awatness seperatong thw good tanks from thw bad ones rather than just holding block. Also, perma-blockers in pvp were balanced properly.

No DK's were still pretty good in 1.6 they just weren't god mode anymore, the main issue they had was broken nirn but that was effecting magicka builds across the board.

What killed them, outside of n8rn, was the damage types for one thing. Such as magic attacks doing physical damage. Plus, the fact that there was a way to reduce dots without a way to increase them.

Those were issues sure but the DK was far from broken in 1.6, lots of people were able to perform very well because even though we were low on burst and mobility compared to other specs we could still tank. You could block and keep your stamina up and you could reliably heal with dragons blood.

Pretty much this.

Bashev · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

But I still can perma block with 30k stamina and 3k magicka regen with my DK in PvE.

ZoM_Head · March 2016

Because they could not find a solution is cast blockers in PvP.

If they actually tested tanking in PvE, they know the lag issues and when tanks weapon swap or light attack there is a chance they will be 1 hit killed by bosses (Mantikora anyone?).

Instead of doing something more logical, lets say no magicka regen while blocking to target specifically those block casters, they chose stamina, where as in pve it makes no sense.

DKs are designed to tank and block a lot, but the heals are rubbish but templars still block cast and can do 20K heals easy. Besides, as mentioned above DKs lacked everything, no mobility, most expensive ultimate, no dodge/miss chance, no execute, nothing and yet a stam regen nerf while blocking seemed ideal in their world.

That is my opinion anyways.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · March 2016

it did a lot to balance builds, even magica builds with no stamina used to be able to block for a really long time before the cp system.

and it certainly was not to get rid of block casting, the new animations that almost came in this TG patch were nixed because you could not animation cancel with block and the pts freaked out.

and you have to admit that tanking was the most boring roll back when it was 100% block with a few block casts peppered in.

ContraTempo · March 2016

Jhunn wrote: »

Was one of the worst decisions in ESO history, and that says alot. Done to cater to a lot of scrubby QQers who were mad they couldn't instakill some players.

#BringBackStamRegenWhileBlocking

Don't know ZoS reasons but this is what I saw most on the forums. Enormous frustration from glass cannons that could not quick kill tanks. I saw a lot of whining about how it could take a minute+ to kill a tank.

Admittedly that is a very long time in combat, but that's kinda the point of being a tank. I've watched videos of some very good NBs working an area in PVP and I see how this sort of an obstacle can really screw up their play style so I understand the frustration. In their minds are scenes from Hitman and Borne where the solo assassin takes out whole rooms full of enemies. But maybe sometimes you don't get too have everything your way. Maybe you actually need (gasp) buddies to help you and even heal you in order to take on mobs of opposing players. Because each one of those you take out is played by an actual person who also wants to play and to succeed.

All the other issues had better solutions, as had been pointed out earlier in this thread.

Reevster · March 2016

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

NERF High damage burst builds! Then PvP might just be fun again for "everyone"

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

Funny how magicka dk tanks still perma block since they get stam returns from using certain abilitys....

Dubhliam · March 2016

Blocking is the only thing required of a PvE tank.

Full heavy and capped resistances still won't guarantee you won't get one shotted from certain bosses. (this should be true for all bosses IMP, but w/e)

So in order to properly mitigate damage, tanks need to hold their shield up most of the time, and revolve their build around managing resource rather than damage.

I am totally fine with that.

I don't have much experience in PvP, but as I see it, there are plenty of HA builds that work as a charm, adding stam regen while blocking would only make them (more) OP.

Leave things be. By things I mean no stam regen.

The root of the problem in PvP lies in shield stacking and burst damage.
Get rid of those, and you won't see these kinds of threads.

Forestd16b14_ESO · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

Sorry no he's right it's cause DPS players in PvP were crying about tanks and how they couldn't kill them so they jsut cried over and over till ZOS had it and nerfed tanks.

Tanks are meant to take damage that is what a tank does DEAL WITH IT instead of crying over and over about tanks doing their jobs and especially stop crying cause you PvP DPS players can't one burst or one shot or what ever it is now.

NewBlacksmurf · March 2016

In short, standing and blocking was not the combat intent ZOS wanted to create and allow so it was changed to no longer encourage those behaviors and play styles.

Wifeaggro13 · March 2016

i3ig_Gun wrote: »

I hated and still hate the change.

it was a quick fix to a PvP problem with perma-blockers... that bled off into PvE...

It destroyed PvE tanking. Now you cannot put points in stats into a spec that will produce dps if you wear heavy. It hit heavy armor wearers hard. PvE most high end content is done pure magic dps