So why was regen while blocking ever taken away?

themdogesbite

Cause stuff like this bothered carebears.

https://youtu.be/Qdv_plNhOqk?t=2m43s

Tankqull

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

not entirely - the permablocking led to the sitaution where you either permablocked aswell or lost the war of attrition from the get go...

they should have changed the dmg potential after blocking an attack substantially instead, that wouldn´t have infected PvE as you are not ment to deal dmg as a tank but sponge it and supress it with cc effects.

nordsavage

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

Nobody told players like you to just hold block some of us put our extra stam to work for offensive and defensive peripheral actions to help the party. Now people like you sit in zone for an hour because of it begging for a tank.

Wollust

- QQ from casual "PvPers", carebears, full DPS builds, gankers and scrubs in general.
- Bandaid fix for a much bigger issue -> CP and the sustain gained from it.
- Allegedly to make PvE tanking more engaging (see reddit thread from a while ago) Not that it changed much, tanking any PvE content, except MoL, is still incredibly easy if you have a few brain cells.

This and and the battlespirit debuff is what makes classes that don't have rolldodge, cloak or shields so bad. They have to invest so much into their defense (block) that they will lack any sort of significant damage.
1.6 magDK was solid, doing mediocre damage while having a high defense. My sorc and my stamblade could two shot people while also having massive defense. Never understood the constant qq about the permablock.
But well, ZOS will be ZOS.

hrothbern

themdogesbite wrote: »

Cause stuff like this bothered carebears.

https://youtu.be/Qdv_plNhOqk?t=2m43s

You could be right that the carebears did not like that "unkillable" build.

But what a wrong analysis would it be to think that blocking was the issue !

Let's assume that Blocking has no Stamina Costs whatsoever (so not the base value 2160 Stamina per hit) and you would have your normal Stamina regeneration.
Blocking gives you roughly a Damage mitigation of 60-70%.

So... one player blocking would be able to handle three times more Damage than not blocking.

So with equal skilled players you lose when you have more than 3 enemies.

In the vid are not 3,4,5 enemies. There are much more, there is a multitude of enemies.
And the blocking build did incur some costs for blocking as well.

So the inability to kill the blocking guy fast has nothing to do with blocking and everything with the skills of that horde of enemies.

Just a L2P issue, nothing else.

I think that the no Stamina regeneration was done to eliminate the combination of the very high mitigation from blocking with significant DPS/HPS or other mitigating ability output (like Reflecting Scale).
Now you lose the majority of your recoveries (the full Stamina recovery + a substantial part of your Magicka recovery to regain Stamina in other ways) for 60-70% more mitigation.

Just as I think that the current meta that combines high DPS with high self-HPS will be eliminated with the DB DLC or shortly thereafter.

And BTW, I agree with both actions.

LordTareq

Normal stamina regeneration while blocking, reduce damage from skills while holding block by 50%. Problem solved.

I really hate the no stamina regeneration while blocking, made me respec my tank to a dps in medium armor.

sirrmattus

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

The worst part is, you can use skills while blocking.. Now how stupid is that?

Actually its extremely logical. The shield is an integrated part of combat and is used as much to create openings as it is to deny being injured. While I might suggest that some skills being greyed out while blocking, I do believe that many skills should be functional while blocking, particularly the ones in the 1H+Shield line, but also many class skills. The main issue is that you don't want the shield playstyle to be too good. Many have suggested that blocking mitigate a little less than it does, but to give heavy armor a little more passive resistance than it currently does (to make up for how awful it is). That way the spike damage wouldn't be so high, and reactive blocking would be a lot more reasonable.

Ok i can agree with s&b skills being castable while blocking. But healers and sorcs blocking with a resto staff while spamming heals and shields is ridic.

Rune_Relic

ZOS was heavily influenced by DPS players and ignored the tanks.
In spite of saying this was not supposed to be an FPS like halo.
Smoke and mirrors or lip service really.

DPS - "give us 1vX...take away cap so we can hit everyone...make proxy det more powerful....give them vicious death set"
They want to kill as many people as possible as quick as possible and be as mobile as possible.
That's how they get their rocks off.

Tanks - "let us taunt as many players as possible....or root them for as long a possible...and soak up as much damage as possible from as many players as possible at once."
They are the literal anti-dps anti-mobility. THAT IS THEIR JOB with pve adds or pvp zergs!
That how they get their rocks off.

ZOS ..make heavy armour useless...make light and medium more powerful...make block unusable...add tools to kill more people quicker.
Make mitigation over time (temporary armour) with a damage shield the reserve of magicka builds.
Basically....kill stamina tanks....enhance magicka dps/tanks....enhance stamina dps (but kill regen without CP)...make armour comparatively useless.

If blocking was too cheap for everyone all they had to do was increase the block cost for those that didn't have heavy.
If specialist tanks were good at TANKING and soak up lots of damage...like DPS put out loads of damage....yeah....that's the whole point....because...TANK!
If armour sets made tanking too powerful.....rethink that armour set for minor buffing instead of required gear.

The Dark Side
Should tanks be unkillable ?
Should dps have guaranteed kills ?
Clearly the answer isn't "always" yes. With an emphasis on always.
Which means the guaranteed kill and the unkillable state should be temporary.
Specialist tanks should be spend more time in the unkillable phase and less time in the guaranteed kill phase as a balance.
Specialist dps should be spend more time in the guaranteed kill phase and less time in the unkillable phase as a balance.

Its that balance that was and is completely bulked.
If I go against a dps as a tank, I will do 25% of their damage but they will have 50% or more of my defense.
They game is deliberately biased to DPS build and Richard Lambert has stated such on the record.
Until that policy and mindset changes to one of balance rather than bias.....there will be no tanks.
You say you cant find tanks for group content......uhu.....because everyone really wants to be a tank now
People have voted on ZOS tanking ideas with their feet.

Tankqull

hrothbern wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Cause stuff like this bothered carebears.

https://youtu.be/Qdv_plNhOqk?t=2m43s

You could be right that the carebears did not like that "unkillable" build.

But what a wrong analysis would it be to think that blocking was the issue !

Let's assume that Blocking has no Stamina Costs whatsoever (so not the base value 2160 Stamina per hit) and you would have your normal Stamina regeneration.
Blocking gives you roughly a Damage mitigation of 60-70%.

So... one player blocking would be able to handle three times more Damage than not blocking.

So with equal skilled players you lose when you have more than 3 enemies.

In the vid are not 3,4,5 enemies. There are much more, there is a multitude of enemies

So the inability to kill the blocking guy fast has nothing to do with blocking and everything with the skills of that horde of enemies.

Just a L2P issue, nothing else.

I think that the no Stamina regeneration was done to eliminate the combination of extreme mitigation with significant DPS/HPS or other mitigating ability output.

Just as I think that the current meta that combines high DPS with high self-HPS will be eliminated with the DB DLC or shortly thereafter.

And BTW, I agree with both actions.

they just increased those values for the builds lacking exactly this so i doubt we will see any HPS reduction in DB.

the video perfectly shows the problem of perma blocking (especially on DKs thanks to range immunity as long as scales doesent bugs out) the combination of insanely high dmg mitigation depending on the dmg type (ranged up to 95%dmg reduction) while still maintaining a mentionable dmgoutput including area denial as standart or batswarm(especially in those times with the old ulti generation)

sth like this is just nuts


especially when you recive 5k+ hits in return...

mr_wazzabi

themdogesbite wrote: »

Cause stuff like this bothered carebears.

https://youtu.be/Qdv_plNhOqk?t=2m43s

This was also before the reflective scales and healing nerf. He was able to reflect unlimited projectiles while flappy flaps were up and was able to actually heal well with dragon blood.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

rossvoss wrote: »

I started around the time it was removed so I never got to see what it was like, doesn't seem like anyone even wanted it removed.
Doesn't that pretty much make heavy armor boderline useless in pvp atleast since it's passives are kind of niche?

Could be worse, the 5 piece passive could still be increased heavy attack damage.

Bashev

Tankqull wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

not entirely - the permablocking led to the sitaution where you either permablocked aswell or lost the war of attrition from the get go...

they should have changed the dmg potential after blocking an attack substantially instead, that wouldn´t have infected PvE as you are not ment to deal dmg as a tank but sponge it and supress it with cc effects.

Block casting was a problem, I admit that but the solution that ZoS gave us was really bad. They had to introduce a debuff (80% less weapon damage and spell power while you hold block). Then DKs can rely on their DoTs. Cast them then go defensive mode and wait. Tanks can block, doing zero damage and just CC the enemies so they would be useful for the group.

Now when the blocking is gone we have shield stacking. So basically it is almost the same as you described it. People who stacks shields takes zero damage and at the same time they have strong DPS.

hrothbern

Tankqull wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Cause stuff like this bothered carebears.

https://youtu.be/Qdv_plNhOqk?t=2m43s

You could be right that the carebears did not like that "unkillable" build.

But what a wrong analysis would it be to think that blocking was the issue !

Let's assume that Blocking has no Stamina Costs whatsoever (so not the base value 2160 Stamina per hit) and you would have your normal Stamina regeneration.
Blocking gives you roughly a Damage mitigation of 60-70%.

So... one player blocking would be able to handle three times more Damage than not blocking.

So with equal skilled players you lose when you have more than 3 enemies.

In the vid are not 3,4,5 enemies. There are much more, there is a multitude of enemies

So the inability to kill the blocking guy fast has nothing to do with blocking and everything with the skills of that horde of enemies.

Just a L2P issue, nothing else.

I think that the no Stamina regeneration was done to eliminate the combination of extreme mitigation with significant DPS/HPS or other mitigating ability output.

Just as I think that the current meta that combines high DPS with high self-HPS will be eliminated with the DB DLC or shortly thereafter.

And BTW, I agree with both actions.

they just increased those values for the builds lacking exactly this so i doubt we will see any HPS reduction in DB.

the video perfectly shows the problem of perma blocking (especially on DKs thanks to range immunity as long as scales doesent bugs out) the combination of insanely high dmg mitigation depending on the dmg type (ranged up to 95%dmg reduction) while still maintaining a mentionable dmgoutput including area denial as standart or batswarm(especially in those times with the old ulti generation)

sth like this is just nuts


especially when you recive 5k+ hits in return...

The strenght of this build came from much more than blocking.

To get 90% or more total mitigation...
you need besides the 63% blocking mitigation (normal S&B with passives and Defensive Posture) another 75% mitigation from other sources.
The 63% blocking gives 37% remaining damage
the 75% from other sources gives 25% remaining damage
So the total remaining damage becomes 25%*37% = 9.2%
Which is 90.8% overall damage mitigation.

So this guy, handling more than 15 players with blocking, would still have been able to handle more than 5 guys without blocking, purely looking at the damage mitigation (not immunity effects)
That's still mainly a player skill level difference imo.
And yes, the vid is probably of the OP time of DK with Dragon Blood, Reflecting Scales, Batswarm,....

But I am happy that Blocking has been adressed with Stamina nerf
Now you get your 63% blocking mitigation at the expense of a similar percentage of your recoveries
(full Stamina recovery nerf for 50% recovery lost + a substantial part of your Magicka recovery to regain Stamina in other ways)

Forestd16b14_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

Sorry no he's right it's cause DPS players in PvP were crying about tanks and how they couldn't kill them so they jsut cried over and over till ZOS had it and nerfed tanks.

Tanks are meant to take damage that is what a tank does DEAL WITH IT instead of crying over and over about tanks doing their jobs and especially stop crying cause you PvP DPS players can't one burst or one shot or what ever it is now.

The issue was not dps not being able to kill them. It was the fact that they couldn't kill at the same time that the supposed tank was putting out solid damage. It was best of both worlds. Today, there are a number of tanks that perma-block in pvp. There are number 9f tanks that eat crazy damage. (Just one example off 9f the top of my head is a tank that took a beating from king Richard and sypher and they had real trouble brining him down for a long period of time.) The difference 8s now thesee perma-blocking tanks have to spec more into doing that which means their damage is crap. Aka, balanced.

This illogical argument about dps whining has no foundation other than a subjective statment. Look at the objective facts.

Yes at PC launch tanks were OP but ZOS fixed it but DPS players didn't stop there they keeped whining and crying about tanks till they ware in the state they are in now and don't even say "bla bla beat this streamer cause they are tanks" streamers only care about what's good for them and will cry if they don't get their way and those perma-blockers were players who were juiced up with 1500+ CP.

Long story short tanks need buffed and DPS players need to stop crying jsut cause they can't kill some one who is meant to take damage and if they can deal damage too that's a bonus which raises the question. If a tank can take damage and deal a bit back then why can't a DPS player deal damage and take it too ? After all magicka users have the most OP defense in the game being damage shields and stamina DPS has dodging. Is it that trying to have a bit of real defense means taking away form your DPS ? Well guess it's just time to look at and re-spend some skills then to have both a offense and defense and not just a offense like how this game has been for almost a year now.

The time of this game of being nothing but a DPS contest is hopefully almost over.

bowmanz607

Wollust wrote: »

- QQ from casual "PvPers", carebears, full DPS builds, gankers and scrubs in general.
- Bandaid fix for a much bigger issue -> CP and the sustain gained from it.
- Allegedly to make PvE tanking more engaging (see reddit thread from a while ago) Not that it changed much, tanking any PvE content, except MoL, is still incredibly easy if you have a few brain cells.

This and and the battlespirit debuff is what makes classes that don't have rolldodge, cloak or shields so bad. They have to invest so much into their defense (block) that they will lack any sort of significant damage.
1.6 magDK was solid, doing mediocre damage while having a high defense. My sorc and my stamblade could two shot people while also having massive defense. Never understood the constant qq about the permablock.
But well, ZOS will be ZOS.

Wrong, currently you have to invest a lot to acheive. Before the change you invested very little to acheive while maintain solid damage. That was one 9f the big issues.

Woeler

Here is the reason on video, me tanking mantikora. It is such a joke, had to do nothing. The change was the best thing that happened to me as a tank, so much more interaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNMPIHmlC2I

Tanking was a joke, look at that stamina bar, always above 85%.

Wollust

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

- QQ from casual "PvPers", carebears, full DPS builds, gankers and scrubs in general.
- Bandaid fix for a much bigger issue -> CP and the sustain gained from it.
- Allegedly to make PvE tanking more engaging (see reddit thread from a while ago) Not that it changed much, tanking any PvE content, except MoL, is still incredibly easy if you have a few brain cells.

This and and the battlespirit debuff is what makes classes that don't have rolldodge, cloak or shields so bad. They have to invest so much into their defense (block) that they will lack any sort of significant damage.
1.6 magDK was solid, doing mediocre damage while having a high defense. My sorc and my stamblade could two shot people while also having massive defense. Never understood the constant qq about the permablock.
But well, ZOS will be ZOS.

Wrong, currently you have to invest a lot to acheive. Before the change you invested very little to acheive while maintain solid damage. That was one 9f the big issues.

In 1.6 I had to allocate a lot of CP into block cost reduction. I had to wear heavy armor, therefore losing penetration, regen and cost reduction from light armor. That means I had to make sure to have an okayish stampool with an okayish stam regen and a decent magicka pool with good regen and then try to get a decent damage output. Not to forget that an okayish health pool was also necessary.
Nowhere near comparable to my other two characters. I had to invest enough already to be able to do a decent amount of damage and ensure my survivability at the same time.
My sorc could pump everything into magicka, use drinks and still have 26k shields, massive damage and never empty his magicka pool. Highest frag I ever saw on my sorc back then was close to 20k. On a build with massive sustain and massive defense.
My nb could just use drinks and allocate CPs accordingly and dodge roll forever, while maintaining a ridiculous amount of damage, capable of ambush + surprise attack killing certain classes and builds.

These days, if you want to tank, you use heavy armor, you use cost reduction for block on CP and jewelry, you need a higher stamina pool and your damage won't be much more than crap because you lose the massive amount of damage you gain from spell damage jewelry enchantment while being massively debuffed by the current battle spirit. While also having a defense that is just not good anymore. You have to invest so much in a meta where stacking damage is simply so much stronger and needed.
There is a reason why most people abandoned their magicka DK tank characters. I know a handful who sticked with it, and while those guys are performing good, it's only because they are amazing players. But that doesn't change the fact that their performance is simply limited by their class.

waterfairy

PvP

phreatophile

Bottom line, there are too many ways to not regenerate stamina.

No Regen while blocking, no regen while sneaking, no regen while sprinting. It's overkill.

I'd like to see magicka deal with no regen during 50% of the things they use magicka for.

They should go with reduced regen rather than no regen for all 3 of them.

Frawr

Should be a reduction in magicka regen while blocking, not stam regen. Should not be a 100% reduction. This fixes magicka block casting.

One of the many idiotic changes in this game. Why they are so so bad at choosing fixes...

Gaaaaahhh

Bashev

phreatophile wrote: »

Bottom line, there are too many ways to not regenerate stamina.

No Regen while blocking, no regen while sneaking, no regen while sprinting. It's overkill.

I'd like to see magicka deal with no regen during 50% of the things they use magicka for.

They should go with reduced regen rather than no regen for all 3 of them.

I hope that one day, they will remove it as they did for no magicka regen after streak and no magicka regen while blazing shield is active.

JubJub

So the stam regen while blocking change was tied more into the "unkillable" dk tanks or was that a seperate issue?

Frawr

Bashev wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Bottom line, there are too many ways to not regenerate stamina.

No Regen while blocking, no regen while sneaking, no regen while sprinting. It's overkill.

I'd like to see magicka deal with no regen during 50% of the things they use magicka for.

They should go with reduced regen rather than no regen for all 3 of them.

I hope that one day, they will remove it as they did for no magicka regen after streak and no magicka regen while blazing shield is active.

Thing is, all of these nerfs are equally stupid.

The problem is the way regen scales too high due to cp.

Cp needs to be flat regen bonuses instead.

Serenityx

I miss regen while stealthed/while sprinting. I started in December and I knew something was always off when I initially began to notice I regenned while sneaking and while sprinting. But I didn't know that this game only got updates thrice or so a year and things like that that are detrimental are usually completely ignored for long periods of time by ZOS so long story short I got used to it and now I'm constantly out of stam because I forget to leave sneak/I can't sprint every where anymore. It makes me use my mount a hell of a lot now.

bowmanz607

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

Sorry no he's right it's cause DPS players in PvP were crying about tanks and how they couldn't kill them so they jsut cried over and over till ZOS had it and nerfed tanks.

Tanks are meant to take damage that is what a tank does DEAL WITH IT instead of crying over and over about tanks doing their jobs and especially stop crying cause you PvP DPS players can't one burst or one shot or what ever it is now.

The issue was not dps not being able to kill them. It was the fact that they couldn't kill at the same time that the supposed tank was putting out solid damage. It was best of both worlds. Today, there are a number of tanks that perma-block in pvp. There are number 9f tanks that eat crazy damage. (Just one example off 9f the top of my head is a tank that took a beating from king Richard and sypher and they had real trouble brining him down for a long period of time.) The difference 8s now thesee perma-blocking tanks have to spec more into doing that which means their damage is crap. Aka, balanced.

This illogical argument about dps whining has no foundation other than a subjective statment. Look at the objective facts.

Yes at PC launch tanks were OP but ZOS fixed it but DPS players didn't stop there they keeped whining and crying about tanks till they ware in the state they are in now and don't even say "bla bla beat this streamer cause they are tanks" streamers only care about what's good for them and will cry if they don't get their way and those perma-blockers were players who were juiced up with 1500+ CP.

Long story short tanks need buffed and DPS players need to stop crying jsut cause they can't kill some one who is meant to take damage and if they can deal damage too that's a bonus which raises the question. If a tank can take damage and deal a bit back then why can't a DPS player deal damage and take it too ? After all magicka users have the most OP defense in the game being damage shields and stamina DPS has dodging. Is it that trying to have a bit of real defense means taking away form your DPS ? Well guess it's just time to look at and re-spend some skills then to have both a offense and defense and not just a offense like how this game has been for almost a year now.

The time of this game of being nothing but a DPS contest is hopefully almost over.

I'm not talking about launch. I'm talking about the whole game leading up to this change. Nothing zos did fixed it. I don't know what you seem to be referring to when you say that. You guys keep talking about whiners as the reason. The same thing occurred when this change was implemented. In reality, sure there were dps players whining about tanks without giving objective reasons as to why they wanted the change, just as tanks were whining about not wanting the change without giving objective reasons why. It is a two way street.

A big thing for many players wanting this change was that players were able to tank a huge amount of damage via perma-blocking, while maintaing very good dps. This was true well before 1.6 and remained true until ic. It wasn't as you seem to suggest a little bit of damage. No. They were putting out numbers comparable to a lot of dps olayers. Why? Because it was very easy to achieve perma-block status without having to sacrifice a lot. Sure, champ points made it worse. But I'm not talking about the rare 1000 point player. I could achieve this with 200 champ points. Heck, it was done before champ points. You say why can't a dps add a little mitigation? Perma-blockers before this were dps who sacrificed a little damage for amazing defense.

As it stands today, there are many players that can still perma-block and face tank half a raid and remain standing for awhile. So, if the reason was that people were whining about not being able to kill tanks, how come it is not an issue to players on the forums like it was before???? I will tell you, cause today it requires a player to commit to that role and spec accordingly. It actually requires a real dps sacrifice. Meaning, players are face tanking players, but they don't do any dage to those players. You know, what a tank should be like.

This issue has nothing to do with streamers. If people believe streamers rum these changes, then you need to open your eyes. One, because you obviously don't understand the context and reasoning of why streamers such as sypher ask for changes. Two, because streamers are a small portion of the population that usually represent one style of players and not all. Three, if they were listening to streamers, then why is it streamers like Feng rush, richard, lefty barely play this game any more because they don't like where the game is.

In the end, I do agree that skills need to be reworked. Dodge got its nerfed so I'm not sure the issue there. Shield stacking does need to be addressed. Heavy armor is 8n real bad shape. Etc. However, this thread is not about those issues.

DaveMoeDee

Rune_Relic wrote: »

ZOS was heavily influenced by DPS players and ignored the tanks.
In spite of saying this was not supposed to be an FPS like halo.
Smoke and mirrors or lip service really.

DPS - "give us 1vX...take away cap so we can hit everyone...make proxy det more powerful....give them vicious death set"
They want to kill as many people as possible as quick as possible and be as mobile as possible.
That's how they get their rocks off.

Tanks - "let us taunt as many players as possible....or root them for as long a possible...and soak up as much damage as possible from as many players as possible at once."
They are the literal anti-dps anti-mobility. THAT IS THEIR JOB with pve adds or pvp zergs!
That how they get their rocks off.

ZOS ..make heavy armour useless...make light and medium more powerful...make block unusable...add tools to kill more people quicker.
Make mitigation over time (temporary armour) with a damage shield the reserve of magicka builds.
Basically....kill stamina tanks....enhance magicka dps/tanks....enhance stamina dps (but kill regen without CP)...make armour comparatively useless.

If blocking was too cheap for everyone all they had to do was increase the block cost for those that didn't have heavy.
If specialist tanks were good at TANKING and soak up lots of damage...like DPS put out loads of damage....yeah....that's the whole point....because...TANK!
If armour sets made tanking too powerful.....rethink that armour set for minor buffing instead of required gear.

The Dark Side
Should tanks be unkillable ?
Should dps have guaranteed kills ?
Clearly the answer isn't "always" yes. With an emphasis on always.
Which means the guaranteed kill and the unkillable state should be temporary.
Specialist tanks should be spend more time in the unkillable phase and less time in the guaranteed kill phase as a balance.
Specialist dps should be spend more time in the guaranteed kill phase and less time in the unkillable phase as a balance.

Its that balance that was and is completely bulked.
If I go against a dps as a tank, I will do 25% of their damage but they will have 50% or more of my defense.
They game is deliberately biased to DPS build and Richard Lambert has stated such on the record.
Until that policy and mindset changes to one of balance rather than bias.....there will be no tanks.
You say you cant find tanks for group content......uhu.....because everyone really wants to be a tank now
People have voted on ZOS tanking ideas with their feet.

Stalemate = no AP for anyone. Call of Duty = lots of AP!

DaveMoeDee

Frawr wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Bottom line, there are too many ways to not regenerate stamina.

No Regen while blocking, no regen while sneaking, no regen while sprinting. It's overkill.

I'd like to see magicka deal with no regen during 50% of the things they use magicka for.

They should go with reduced regen rather than no regen for all 3 of them.

I hope that one day, they will remove it as they did for no magicka regen after streak and no magicka regen while blazing shield is active.

Thing is, all of these nerfs are equally stupid.

The problem is the way regen scales too high due to cp.

Cp needs to be flat regen bonuses instead.

As someone who doesn't take PvP seriously, I really liked CP. But if introducing CP means nerfing everything so people with max CP don't break the mechanics, then CP is a mistake. Making changes to weaken the characters of those with low CP to compensate for the power of max CP is also a very annoying change. The exact change is not the main problem for me. The main problem is weakening abilities to compensate for power creep of max CP.

Dubhliam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTZxUDj1AlM

NBrookus

Wollust wrote: »

There is a reason why most people abandoned their magicka DK tank characters. I know a handful who sticked with it, and while those guys are performing good, it's only because they are amazing players. But that doesn't change the fact that their performance is simply limited by their class.

I actually switched to magicka tanking/regen build on my DK to deal with the stam nerf. I was never a perma-blocking tank, but sometimes you gotta block and mitigate a LOT. Now if my stam pool is temporarily exhausted, at least I still have Obsidian Shield.

Unfortunately now my tank is a weird hybrid build that doesn't do anything very well except craft and tank in PvE. And I don't really need to tank trials that often, ya know? So about 300k in respec and legendary tempers later, the nerf still basically killed my tank since she sits on a shelf.

ContraTempo

Last time I saw this discussed someone had the interesting idea of only making block effective against frontal attacks. Attacks from the rear are not stopped/reduced by block. Just standing there blocking would get you hit from behind.

I assume this would be accompanied by restoring stam regen while blocking.

The big complaint was that mobs would become much more dangerous, but the answer to that was not to stand in the middle of a hostile mob. XD

Recognizing that there could be unintended consequences, this might be something worth testing on the PTS to see what happens.