So why was regen while blocking ever taken away?

Jhunn

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In short, standing and blocking was not the combat intent ZOS wanted to create and allow so it was changed to no longer encourage those behaviors and play styles.

In short, ZOS wanted to make PvP an FPS-experience with only high damage playstyles viable.

Yes.

bowmanz607

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

Sorry no he's right it's cause DPS players in PvP were crying about tanks and how they couldn't kill them so they jsut cried over and over till ZOS had it and nerfed tanks.

Tanks are meant to take damage that is what a tank does DEAL WITH IT instead of crying over and over about tanks doing their jobs and especially stop crying cause you PvP DPS players can't one burst or one shot or what ever it is now.

The issue was not dps not being able to kill them. It was the fact that they couldn't kill at the same time that the supposed tank was putting out solid damage. It was best of both worlds. Today, there are a number of tanks that perma-block in pvp. There are number 9f tanks that eat crazy damage. (Just one example off 9f the top of my head is a tank that took a beating from king Richard and sypher and they had real trouble brining him down for a long period of time.) The difference 8s now thesee perma-blocking tanks have to spec more into doing that which means their damage is crap. Aka, balanced.

This illogical argument about dps whining has no foundation other than a subjective statment. Look at the objective facts.

kewl

Jhunn wrote: »

Was one of the worst decisions in ESO history, and that says alot. Done to cater to a lot of scrubby QQers who were mad they couldn't instakill some players.

#BringBackStamRegenWhileBlocking

Wifeaggro13

umagon wrote: »

Because a certain combat dev seems to go to extremes when changing things. To counter block casting all they had to do is increase the cost of using a skill while blocking. That way people could cast while blocking, but add some balance where they could not maintain a high offense and high defense for extended periods of time only momentarily. Instead they decided they needed to do something that jeopardizes tanks. Do not get me started on the "change" to heavy armor's skill.

Already jeopardized. Dps with a taunt.

kewl

bowmanz607 wrote: »

There are number 9f tanks that eat crazy damage. (Just one example off 9f the top of my head is a tank that took a beating from king Richard and sypher and they had real trouble brining him down for a long period of time.) The difference 8s now thesee perma-blocking tanks have to spec more into doing that which means their damage is crap.

Pro tip, the i and o keys are just below the 8 and 9 keys.

bowmanz607

kewl wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

There are number 9f tanks that eat crazy damage. (Just one example off 9f the top of my head is a tank that took a beating from king Richard and sypher and they had real trouble brining him down for a long period of time.) The difference 8s now thesee perma-blocking tanks have to spec more into doing that which means their damage is crap.

Pro tip, the i and o keys are just below the 8 and 9 keys.

Lol, on my phone. Big fingers and small letters lol

Xsorus

Because they thought Heavy Armor was just so overpowered *grin*

Kublakan

I was a DK tank with shield up and all I heard was complain how though we were to kill. Heck! I was a tank! Just change your firing focus if you cant kill me. And while I was walking around with a shield up, what damage could I do?

But no, after nerfing so much of our skills they also got to nerf the shield. And now, they ask how they could make tanking fun again? Just undo what you have done!

Now, I just go on dpsing with medium armor using shield for more survivability and its the way to go, to hell with the tank, they made it a begger.

bowmanz607

Kublakan wrote: »

I was a DK tank with shield up and all I heard was complain how though we were to kill. Heck! I was a tank! Just change your firing focus if you cant kill me. And while I was walking around with a shield up, what damage could I do?

But no, after nerfing so much of our skills they also got to nerf the shield. And now, they ask how they could make tanking fun again? Just undo what you have done!

Now, I just go on dpsing with medium armor using shield for more survivability and its the way to go, to hell with the tank, they made it a begger.

There are alternatives to make it "fun again." Fix heavy armor will go a long way. That skill line needs an overhaul.

HoloYoitsu

Reasons for nerf to block:

- Infinite Rolly Polly stam builds QQ'd about people blocking their dmg, then dying to undodgeable DK whips.
- 1vX'rs hurt ppls precious feelings.
- Wrobel doesn't know how PvE tanking works.

sirrmattus

The worst part is, you can use skills while blocking.. Now how stupid is that?

dodgehopper_ESO

Bashev wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

But I still can perma block with 30k stamina and 3k magicka regen with my DK in PvE.

This is just bad design. DK is the only class that can pull this off, meaning DK really is the go-to Tank. Meanwhile, they've opened up healing in a lot of ways to classes outside of Templar. I find this particularly irritating.

Master_Kas

Stupid change. Was a thread about this which had multiple pages of replies asking to not implement this or to change it to something else (like 30-50-75% regen penalty while blocking, while blocking in 5 heavy etc)

When zeni max sets it mind to something you can't change it.

Streaknerf, blocknerf, aoe caps, dynamic ulti: I'm looking at you .

bowmanz607

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

But I still can perma block with 30k stamina and 3k magicka regen with my DK in PvE.

This is just bad design. DK is the only class that can pull this off, meaning DK really is the go-to Tank. Meanwhile, they've opened up healing in a lot of ways to classes outside of Templar. I find this particularly irritating.

Every class can. I can perma-block on my nb and temp. Haven't tried on sorcerer though. Champ points are main reasons.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Stupid change. Was a thread about this which had multiple pages of replies asking to not implement this or to change it to something else (like 30-50-75% regen penalty while blocking, while blocking in 5 heavy etc)

When zeni max sets it mind to something you can't change it.

Streaknerf, blocknerf, aoe caps, dynamic ulti: I'm looking at you .

There was many people that liked the idea as implemented to. It was not a one way street.

dodgehopper_ESO

sirrmattus wrote: »

The worst part is, you can use skills while blocking.. Now how stupid is that?

Actually its extremely logical. The shield is an integrated part of combat and is used as much to create openings as it is to deny being injured. While I might suggest that some skills being greyed out while blocking, I do believe that many skills should be functional while blocking, particularly the ones in the 1H+Shield line, but also many class skills. The main issue is that you don't want the shield playstyle to be too good. Many have suggested that blocking mitigate a little less than it does, but to give heavy armor a little more passive resistance than it currently does (to make up for how awful it is). That way the spike damage wouldn't be so high, and reactive blocking would be a lot more reasonable.

dodgehopper_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

But I still can perma block with 30k stamina and 3k magicka regen with my DK in PvE.

This is just bad design. DK is the only class that can pull this off, meaning DK really is the go-to Tank. Meanwhile, they've opened up healing in a lot of ways to classes outside of Templar. I find this particularly irritating.

Every class can. I can perma-block on my nb and temp. Haven't tried on sorcerer though. Champ points are main reasons.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Stupid change. Was a thread about this which had multiple pages of replies asking to not implement this or to change it to something else (like 30-50-75% regen penalty while blocking, while blocking in 5 heavy etc)

When zeni max sets it mind to something you can't change it.

Streaknerf, blocknerf, aoe caps, dynamic ulti: I'm looking at you .

There was many people that liked the idea as implemented to. It was not a one way street.

The point is that some classes do it significantly better than others. I admit a little hyperbole. I also recognize a significant change in the way my character tanked before and after the changes, and how it was simply a hell of a lot more fun to go dps because that is where the traction is in the game right now.

technohic

sirrmattus wrote: »

The worst part is, you can use skills while blocking.. Now how stupid is that?

It kind of makes sense from a reality standpoint that you could and it would be tiring holding that shield up, but I think I would have rather they let stam regen but you just had to take it off to attack. Wouldn't have nerfed it by much as I wouldn't expect a cooldown or animation time to do so; but you just couldn't hold the button.

I think they need to make it a heavy armor passive at this point though; and then increase the magicka and stamina return from being hit while wearing heavy and successfully blocking with a shield.

bowmanz607

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

It was nerfed because DPS cried a river that they cannot burst and move away. That is how the mobility meta was born. Kill and reposition.

Nope. It was because tanks, in PvE would simply wander around dungeon boss fights permanently blocking everything. PvP balance isn't that important, and hasn't been for awhile.

But I still can perma block with 30k stamina and 3k magicka regen with my DK in PvE.

This is just bad design. DK is the only class that can pull this off, meaning DK really is the go-to Tank. Meanwhile, they've opened up healing in a lot of ways to classes outside of Templar. I find this particularly irritating.

Every class can. I can perma-block on my nb and temp. Haven't tried on sorcerer though. Champ points are main reasons.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Stupid change. Was a thread about this which had multiple pages of replies asking to not implement this or to change it to something else (like 30-50-75% regen penalty while blocking, while blocking in 5 heavy etc)

When zeni max sets it mind to something you can't change it.

Streaknerf, blocknerf, aoe caps, dynamic ulti: I'm looking at you .

There was many people that liked the idea as implemented to. It was not a one way street.

The point is that some classes do it significantly better than others. I admit a little hyperbole. I also recognize a significant change in the way my character tanked before and after the changes, and how it was simply a hell of a lot more fun to go dps because that is where the traction is in the game right now.

Well ya, some classes excel at particular things compared to others. That is just how it is. And yes, it did feel different. It required adapting too.

Vangy

Insted of nerfing regen to 0, ZOS could have;

1. Right now blocking reduces insane amounts of damage. Make block mitigate maybe 30% less. So people can still kill you if all your doing is holding block while running a dps build. Throw in 20% damage reduced if you cast an ability while holding block if that helps. The numbers can be decided upon later. Whats important here is the concept.
2. Give heavy armor a huge buff to resistances to keep up with this nuke-dps-race. Right now spell/armor pen is ridiculous with no ways for tanks to get any kind of defence going. And trial bosses can kill a tank the second he/she gets hit with block down. This shouldnt be the case. If you are in 5 heavy running a proper tank build and have SnB equipped and fail to block a certain boss attack, you should take tons of damage (maybe put u close to death). This is punishment enough. Not get 1 hit. Thats just lazy balancing of mechanics.

By doing this, perma block DPS builds wont work. Becos blocking dosent nearly mitigate as much damage as it does now. If you wear full dps gear and rely on blocking to live, it wont work once this change is implemented. However, true tank builds, dont have to rely on block as much as they are now because heavy armor combined with the damage reduction from block makes up for the reduced block damage. This encourages reactive blocking while not forcing someone to drop block to stop their resources from going to 0. This would also prevent scenarios where trial bosses = block or die situations. The reduced output to damage while blocking would be encouragement enough to drop block every now and then.

I have a DK tank. Tanking USED to be fun. Just cos some noob tanks hold block all day long dosent mean we all do that. I used to put out decent dps. Now, however, PVE tanking is just all about staying alive. I know the second I drop block, there is a possibility of boss 1-hitting me. With lag involved, it makes no sense for me to ever drop block. Its a frantic pot chugging race while staring at my stam bar. This isnt more engaging, its just boring. I still tank for my some of my guilds with good players but ive all but given up on tanking in pledges etc. Boring as F lol.

They could have done soooo many interesting things to discourage block casting... But noooo, they had to make stam regen 0 while blocking, The most uninspired, easy, bandaid fix anyone could have ever thought of... If you think this is fine, just understand that the number of whiners complaining about shield stacking is exponentially growing. How long do u think its going to be before something like only one shield active at a time (or something along these lines) is going to be implemented? Its not that crazy of a scenario to imagine happening when something as heavy handed as 0 stam regen while blocking got implemented.

Lokey0024

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

People didn't die after 10 seconds after getting ambushed by a small group of gankers.
Sigh...i miss to tank 3-4 ambushers for 2-3 minutes so they just leave out of boredom, now i just go down after a while since heavy got a terrible resource managment...

DerAlleinTiger

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

and you have to admit that tanking was the most boring roll back when it was 100% block with a few block casts peppered in.

Now if only tanking was actually more fun for me with these changes... because it's not.

Pierce Armor for taunting. Structured Entropy for the slotted passive health buff, because when my stamina runs out I need every bit of health I can muster to survive. Defensive Posture purely for the slotted passive to help reduce stamina block costs. Armor/Spell Resist buff active ability (whatever that might be for the given class). And then a single open skill slot for whatever I can use, but of course only if it's a magicka ability because I need to save that stamina. Oh, and if the fight requires a dedicated CC ability? Heh, yeah. Guess what? I then have no actual abilities to play with then. Just all utilities.

So yeah. It's real fun having a single ability to use at my leisure rather than several since I need as many slots filled as possible with things that just keep me alive.

Ah, yes. And the secondary bar? Yeah, it's fun having my options be staff, staff, staff, or staff. Because, of course, anything else would use stamina, which I need to block.

Oh, have I mentioned how much more varied and fun my builds are yet? Because yeah. They're so much more fun and varied...

(And yes, I was super salty when this change happened and I still am. That salt river still hasn't dried up yet.)

Marktoneth3

as a tank this perma block is too much

It could have been 20 - 30 % less stam regen instead of 0

Vangy

DerAlleinTiger wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

and you have to admit that tanking was the most boring roll back when it was 100% block with a few block casts peppered in.

Now if only tanking was actually more fun for me with these changes... because it's not.

Pierce Armor for taunting. Structured Entropy for the slotted passive health buff, because when my stamina runs out I need every bit of health I can muster to survive. Defensive Posture purely for the slotted passive to help reduce stamina block costs. Armor/Spell Resist buff active ability (whatever that might be for the given class). And then a single open skill slot for whatever I can use, but of course only if it's a magicka ability because I need to save that stamina. Oh, and if the fight requires a dedicated CC ability? Heh, yeah. Guess what? I then have no actual abilities to play with then. Just all utilities.

So yeah. It's real fun having a single ability to use at my leisure rather than several since I need as many slots filled as possible with things that just keep me alive.

Ah, yes. And the secondary bar? Yeah, it's fun having my options be staff, staff, staff, or staff. Because, of course, anything else would use stamina, which I need to block.

Oh, have I mentioned how much more varied and fun my builds are yet? Because yeah. They're so much more fun and varied...

(And yes, I was super salty when this change happened and I still am. That salt river still hasn't dried up yet.)

Sorry to say, but when that river dries up, all that's going to be left is more salt..

Marktoneth3

please developers fix this

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Finn @Wrobel ,

Correct me if I am wrong, but you removed stamina regeneration while blocking for the following reason(s).

1. For the IC update you were introducing the battle spirit (de)buff as a way of making PVP more fun. People were basically getting one shot all of the time or blocking all of the time.

2. You correctly recognized that if you were to cut players damage and healing by half, then blocking would, with respect to damage and healing strategies, be twice as good after said debuff which had no effect on blocking.

3. After you came up with this thought, you then astroturfed the idea that players wanted blocking to not regenerate stamina and you did this by getting some streamers on board with the idea because, as we all know, developers and streamers have a symbiotic relationship.

4. After that there were enough players who didn't use blocking strategies that were on board to nerf blocking strategies (who would have guessed) and you then (erroneously) valued those people opinion equally to those that the nerf effected the most, such as tanks.

That is just what seems to have happened to me. This isn't fact, but a conclusion a draw from my experience of discussing the nerf when it was being talked about.

Kublakan

And how our we supposed to time our shield with incoming hits when you got that crap of animation canceling going on? Why dont they implement it to npcs and critters while at it.

Destruent

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

i3ig_Gun wrote: »

I hated and still hate the change.

it was a quick fix to a PvP problem with perma-blockers... that bled off into PvE...

It destroyed PvE tanking. Now you cannot put points in stats into a spec that will produce dps if you wear heavy. It hit heavy armor wearers hard. PvE most high end content is done pure magic dps

lol...tanking is easy. If you find yourself in trouble managing your ressources you can wear engine guardian. They changed it bc tanking was too easy in pve and pvp-permablockers who put out a lot of dmg.

mr_wazzabi

rossvoss wrote: »

I started around the time it was removed so I never got to see what it was like, doesn't seem like anyone even wanted it removed.
Doesn't that pretty much make heavy armor boderline useless in pvp atleast since it's passives are kind of niche?

People were permablocking in pvp and were unkillable. This was a poorly thought out fix to stop that.

SlayerTheDragon

removed

SlayerTheDragon

At very least ZOS should add a passive to Shield and Sword (or Heavy Armor) that lets you regen stamina while blocking - I mean you are sacrificing DPS by going Sword and Board....