Please change how crafting node scaling works

Dagonthir · March 2016

Please change how crafting node scaling works in the Battle Leveled zones (ie. Wrothgar, Cyrodil and Hew's Bane). I was hoping this would change with the Thieve's Guild update, but unfortunately it's still the same. I've seen this discussed in other threads, so I know I'm not the only one who dislikes it. The problem is that it is very alt-unfriendly. Most of the people that have complained about it, including me, have worked on all of the crafting skills and maxed them all out, but we did it across mutliple alts. So it is really disappointing now to go into the new areas and find high level nodes in the professions that character is proficient in, and then find low level nodes in the other professions. It's not fun. So in order to harvest useful nodes in all the professions, we now need to level all of the crafting skills on one character. And if we like to switch between our characters and still harvest useful nodes while questing on those different characters, then we need to level all of the crafting skills on all of our characters. This is really not fun, and has spoiled the harvesting part of the game. ESO does so many things to take the grinding out of traditional MMOs, but this mechanic just adds its own unique grind into ESO (which especially sucks with Enchanting). I don't believe that was the intent as I believe ZOS meant to facilitate newcomers to the game to be able to go immediately to the new areas and get nodes they could craft with, but in doing it this way you have really harmed the experience for veteran players who simply chose not do crafting in all of the crafting professions on one character.

(TL;DR) At least read this: With the removal of veteran ranks coming up, I think it's a good time to change how the node scaling works. I would suggest changing the scaling to one of the following options (or a modification of one), which are mostly based on discussions that I have had on this subject in other threads:

Game Settings option to allow players to set the level of the nodes they harvest per profession, with a range going from 1 to <either character level or crafting passive, whichever is higher>, including an option to scale to player level and an option to scale to crafting passive
Game Settings option to allow players to choose to have nodes scaled to either their character level or crafting passive, per profession
Scale nodes to either character level or crafting passive, whichever is higher (no Game Settings)
Scale to character level/Champion Points after veteran ranks are removed (this is probably the best and easiest option after veteran ranks are removed)
Scale to highest crafting passive of all characters across account. (*Option to activate this via CP constellation as part of the Master Gatherer perk)
New crafting skills (or an alchemy skill) for crafters to be able to transmute any material into a different level of that material up to that characters highest level.

The first two options are to literally add Game Settings via most likely the Interface settings (these didn't get a lot of feedback in other threads but were mentioned. I put them first because I thought they were the most flexible options). Each character would have their own settings so that they could choose specifically what level they want the nodes to be, up to character level or crafting passive. There would also be options for more dynamic choices like "Scale to Character Level/CP" and "Scale to Passive Skill" that as players level up, the nodes would level up with them. This could also be done through an in-game mechanic like going to an NPC to set the level of the nodes. The last option to transmute materials is one that I haven't seen brought up, but I thought it would an interesting way to facilitate harvesting. I wouldn't mind harvesting iron ore and jute on my non-crafting characters if I could give them to my crafting character to transmute into the material I wanted (it could only be transmuted up to the crafting character's ability of course). The transmuting could also be an alchemy skill instead.

I understand that some people like it the way it is due to various reasons, but there are a lot that don't like it. The game should be fun (and not tedious) for everyone, so with that in mind I would ask ZOS to please change the crafting node scaling, and that any players who wish to contribute to a discussion to please contribute to compromising on a system that would be fun for everyone.

Anyone who agrees that it should be changed, please leave in-game feedback using /feedback.
^ Do this

rosy_ariete · March 2016

Personally I'm happy with this system where only your crafter can pick up nodes. I really want it to stay as it is.

Dagonthir · March 2016

The current way just goes against the original spirit of the game, which let people play as they wanted without having to learn a skill or have any tools in order to harvest any node. And it was great. Now it's a pain to go to the new areas and harvest all useful nodes on any toon.

Desimator · March 2016

I have the correct harvest lvl on each char so am happy 5 are 9/10 in all professions and 3 are 10/10 takes an end game char with a good amount of skill points to achieve this so prob not for everyone but I think it works ok as is

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

I agree with the above. I like it as is.

myrrrorb14_ESO · March 2016

I enjoy it as it currently stands. It gives crafters something unique to all their hard work and skill point dedication. Having the option to scale it lower than your current crafting level would be a nice addition, but really not necessary.

Nestor · March 2016

I have always followed the mode that the character who needs the mats farms those mats. Most of my characters are not crafters, so I would have no reason to invest either the skill points or time to raise the crafting skills on my non crafting characters. As it stands now, I have to spend 30 skill points, on top of the skill leveling, to farm the mats I need. But its the 30 skill points that really gets in my craw.

The nodes should scale to Character Level or Crafting Material Level, whichever is higher for the Scaled Zones.

myrrrorb14_ESO · March 2016

Nestor wrote: »

I have always followed the mode that the character who needs the mats farms those mats. Most of my characters are not crafters, so I would have no reason to invest either the skill points or time to raise the crafting skills on my non crafting characters. As it stands now, I have to spend 30 skill points, on top of the skill leveling, to farm the mats I need. But its the 30 skill points that really gets in my craw.

The nodes should scale to Character Level or Crafting Material Level, whichever is higher for the Scaled Zones.

27 points. The first point is free. You can always decon dropped gear for mats and writ surveys are nice to gain raws from your crafter. It works pretty well as is.

Nestor · March 2016

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

27 points. The first point is free. You can always decon dropped gear for mats and writ surveys are nice to gain raws from your crafter. It works pretty well as is.

27 points or 30 points, it is still an entire Weapon Skill line that I can't populate with Skill Points.

It does not work well as it stands now, it is a waste of skill points and time on a non crafting character.

Capsaica · March 2016

Gotta say, I was less-than-pleased initially about the changes, but I already had crafting fully leveled on my main character for blacksmithing, woodworking, alchemy, clothing and provisioning. The provisioning isn't really relevant here, but I spent the skill points to make sure I had 10/10 for all of the other professions maxed out just so that I could harvest VR15/16 mats as I happened to come across them. The skill point drain is unfortunate, but I'm pretty happy with the system in general.

I then leveled blacksmithing, woodworking and clothing on my enchanter alt so that I could collect mats on that character too. I've actually started playing my crafter some because of this and having fun with that character. The same goes for my provisioner who is now leveling up enchanting.

I have been leveling at least one profession on each of my other characters as well, just to grab some mats whenever I see them. It is so much easier to level the crafting professions than it used to be, and this hasn't been a huge burden.

The only problem now is having the resolve and willpower to not harvest ancestor silk in Cyrodiil when raiding with my guild. The temptation is so strong...Squirrel!

Now, having a crafting mats bank available is a whole 'nother issue. I would be behind that 100%.

Taleof2Cities · March 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

The current way just goes against the original spirit of the game, which let people play as they wanted without having to learn a skill or have any tools in order to harvest any node. And it was great. Now it's a pain to go to the new areas and harvest all useful nodes on any toon.

Is it letting people play as they want or is it a handout?

The crafting node scaling is working as intended ... which in my opinion fits how I want to play and is in line with the original spirit and fun of the game. So, I respectfully disagree with this statement and the OP.

I think players have conveniently forgotten that there are still sources of high level materials in other non-scaled crafting zones ... such as Craglorn and Imperial City.

Sure, I am sacrificing other skill lines on my alts in favor of crafting skill lines ... including not being able to spend a lot of skill points in the new Thieves Guild skill line. However, that was my choice ... the same as another player's choice to have all combat skill lines on a main or alt.

Bottom line, a player-character's crafting abilities should be commensurate with the time and skill points invested ... including harvesting crafting nodes.

Crafters literally have to put in their 'time' (not just research times

) to be good at what they do. Let's not water those achievements down by giving non-crafter characters the same perks.

Nestor · March 2016

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think players have conveniently forgotten that there are still sources of high level materials in other non-scaled crafting zones ... such as Craglorn and Imperial City.

VR15/16 mats do not drop in Craglorn and Imperial City is not a PvE zone unless you commit to a campaign, and that is not a good option.

goatlyonesub17_ESO · March 2016

So that's what's going on. I had wondered why my Enchanting-Level-50 VR16 Sorc was getting only Level 1 runestones in Wrothgar. After I had finished making her into a Master Enchanter, I respec'd her skill points, removing the ones in Enchanting so I would have more points for the other skill lines.

Pirhana7_ESO · March 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

The current way just goes against the original spirit of the game, which let people play as they wanted without having to learn a skill or have any tools in order to harvest any node. And it was great. Now it's a pain to go to the new areas and harvest all useful nodes on any toon.

Actually the change was to help more with the spirit of the game and ES in general. The reason they did this is so you can harvest materials that are actually the level you need while you adventure and level. before people would go to Cyrodiil to level and play but the harvesting materials were all high level and basically useless to alot of people. It was hard to leve there because you could not get crafting materials that were your level. This is why they changed it to what it is now. So that crafting materials are relevant to you as you go.

Alot of people would be unhappy if they went to Wrothgar to level up but could not get crafting materials that they actually needed to help them level.

Alorier · March 2016

Nope happy with how things are don't see any need to change it

DRXHarbinger · March 2016

It works perfectly fine. Essentially it scales to your writs so what's the issue here?? Oh you just want to farm high level mats with no effort put in and farm tons of gold...oh yes. That's how we all end up making no gold by having nothing of value and flooding the market.

Dagonthir · March 2016

"Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

The reason they did this is so you can harvest materials that are actually the level you need while you adventure and level... So that crafting materials are relevant to you as you go.

But they're not the level I need. I need high level nodes because my characters are high level, but I'm getting low level nodes in some professions because I haven't worked on those professions on that character (each of my three characters is maxed out in 2 or 3 professions). If it scaled to character level, then that would accomplish what you're saying and I'd be perfectly happy with it.

Nestor · March 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

It works perfectly fine. Essentially it scales to your writs so what's the issue here?? Oh you just want to farm high level mats with no effort put in and farm tons of gold...oh yes. That's how we all end up making no gold by having nothing of value and flooding the market.

No, I just want to farm for mats on my combat alts who are not crafters, but are VR16. I could farm the mats they needed in every other zone as I got to them. But not now.

Writs are not the only reason to get mats. And, making a combat character a crafter is not a viable option.

DRXHarbinger · March 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

"Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

The reason they did this is so you can harvest materials that are actually the level you need while you adventure and level... So that crafting materials are relevant to you as you go.

But they're not the level I need. I need high level nodes because my characters are high level, but I'm getting low level nodes in some professions because I haven't worked on those professions on that character (each of my three characters is maxed out in 2 or 3 professions). If it scaled to character level, then that would accomplish what you're saying and I'd be perfectly happy with it.

You're missing the point here. If you had one toon and this couldn't craft the high level mats due to no skill points or effort then why would you need to collect it and harvest it? It would be of no use to you. So you use the toon that can craft to farm the mats. It even saves you logging out and in again and going to the bank. Look at it that way and zeni have done you a favour.

baratron · March 2016

I have to say, I'm really enjoying the change to node scaling. I tend to find myself enslaved to picking up nodes - must... get... shiny... and accidentally spending all day harvesting instead of playing. So it's great for me to have characters who will only get junk from the nodes. It's a lot easier to ignore iron ore than rubedite!

Also, I like the way you can manipulate what you get by putting a certain number of points into the crafting skills. I have two characters who pick up maximum level materials, and a third who picks up the most expensive materials. While Rubedite Ingots are still expensive, Sanded Ruby Ash currently sells for about 7.5 gold per piece in Guild Stores (PC/NA), so it's worth my while picking up wood which sells for 10+ gold per piece.

However, I agree with the idea that characters with maximum crafting levels should be able to farm lower level mats for alts. If you've put the maximum 9 extra skill points into your skill, then you should be able to choose which level of mats to pick up, rather than only getting tier 10 mats. I can see a future when Voidstone becomes more expensive than Rubedite, given that everyone with a top tier crafter is getting only tier 10 mats now but still needs tier 9 mats for Crafting Writs.

TheShadowScout · March 2016

Personally I like it as it is. Yeah, it means that non-crafters need not boether with the nodes in the scales areas. So what? I get way more then enough of that stuff from my crafty alt when I put my mind to it... and even more deconning trash loot from V16 mobs. So I am good with the V15+ materials, and just leave the nodes alone when on my non.crafty alts.

I don't see any poroblem needing fixing, really...

Taleof2Cities · March 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think players have conveniently forgotten that there are still sources of high level materials in other non-scaled crafting zones ... such as Craglorn and Imperial City.

VR15/16 mats do not drop in Craglorn and Imperial City is not a PvE zone unless you commit to a campaign, and that is not a good option.

VR15/16 don't drop in nodes, yes, but you can buy them from the Imperial City Tel Var vendor ... so the zone is a source of mats. "High Level" was meant to include void mats as well (not just end game V15/V16).

Nestor · March 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

You're missing the point here. If you had one toon and this couldn't craft the high level mats due to no skill points or effort then why would you need to collect it and harvest it? It would be of no use to you. So you use the toon that can craft to farm the mats. It even saves you logging out and in again and going to the bank. Look at it that way and zeni have done you a favour.

So, in my case, I need to log off my combat character and then log to my crafter to farm mats?

Where before, in all other zones before node scaling was introduced, I could farm for mats on the character that needed them as I was going from place to place to quest or combat. Now, I can't do that, so I instead of being efficient with my time, I have to log to another character and spend time going over ground I just covered with my combat characters to get the mats my combat characters could have gotten while they were there.

This is not a favor to me.

DRXHarbinger · March 2016

^ lesson here. Don't be a lazy grinder and ignore crafting.

Smileybones · March 2016

I don't see any problem here. My char has level 50 in most professions and still can get low level nodes by going to low level areas. For example I got level 1 runes in starter island while looking for a treasure even tho my enchanting is level 42.

Taleof2Cities · March 2016

Nestor wrote: »

No, I just want to farm for mats on my combat alts who are not crafters, but are VR16. I could farm the mats they needed in every other zone as I got to them. But not now.

Writs are not the only reason to get mats. And, making a combat character a crafter is not a viable option.

I think every player in the forums would agree that you are playing your character the way you want to. Every player plays how they want to play the game. No disputes from anyone on that.

But, "not viable" or "does not work well", is on the player's choice of allocation of skill points ... which in itself is not necessarily bad. Where the other posters' arguments come in is that the choice to not invest in crafting skill lines has led to some mild consequences.

For my Templar main, I don't have much invested in the Fighter's Guild skill tree. There are consequences there, for sure ... easy to notice when fighting daedra in the Imperial City or PvP vampires.

But, I still have my class abilities and two weapon skill lines pretty much full in addition to 5/6 crafting skill lines, Mages Guild, and Alliance War. To me, that is "viable". Note that there are a handful of skills people shouldn't invest in until fixed by ZOS (e.g. Templar Toppling Charge, Alchemy Snakeblood passive).

So, yes, consequences exist for not investing in crafting.

Yes, you'll still get end game mats by logging into your crafting alt and farming, going to Imperial City Tel Var vendor, or just buying them from friends or the guild stores. A minor inconvenience.

Pr0jektile · March 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

The current way just goes against the original spirit of the game, which let people play as they wanted without having to learn a skill or have any tools in order to harvest any node. And it was great. Now it's a pain to go to the new areas and harvest all useful nodes on any toon.

It's a pain for a reason. It seems ZOS wanted to give incentive to partake in all facets of the game: PvE, Crafting/Harvesting, PvP. Seeing as how you have to do at least some of each to get any decent results in the game. It forces you to be well-rounded, and explore different facets of the experience. It also encourages interaction with other players who may be able to help you. Yo can for instance, trade medium armor for weapons?

There are several pretty easy solutions:

1.) Have a Main that can craft/harvest for all of your toons. There are plenty of skill points out there. Make sure you're grabbing all of the skill point quests, skyshards, and completing the group events to get more skill points. This will ensure that you have plenty of skill points to craft whatever you want when you want. If you break it up into small chunks you can keep all relevant crafting lines on par with each new character level/rank.

2.) Have a dedicated crafting character. You can level ONLY the actual crafting levels on your main so that they can harvest whatever nodes you need in your travels. That's only about 60 Skill Points, or 180 Sky shards. Seeing as there are on average about 15-16 in each zone, you can probably complete this by the end of Caldwell's silver. Then you can focus on a dedicated Crafting Character. One where you can transfer all harvested materials to and craft any item you want. I think the average crafting skill line has about 26 points to max-out. That's roughly 156 skill points. 66 of those right now come with reaching V16. That means only 90 of them left to get via quests or Skyshards.

3.) Turn your main into a dedicated crafter. Turn your Alt into your harvesting main. You'll already have a bulk of the skill points necessary to do this. You may even have all the ones you need. You'd be surprised how fast you can max out a combat character if you're not worrying about keeping crafting levels up. This is probably the most efficient way, as you can complete research items on both characters as you collect items, and reduce bank clog. You can keep the crafting character's inventory full of mats, and only use the bank to transfer. Yes, you'll have to log in and then back out. It won't kill you.

The game was designed to reward those who put the time in to complete these parts. It's what creates scarcity around higher level gear. Many MMO players enjoy the exclusivity of being one of few who can actually obtain and work with higher level crafting materials. Some of the worst things MMO's have done is homogenize crafting and combat for the casual player. I feel like there's already enough balance with battle-leveling to make the game fun for the casual gamer, while still rewarding those who put the time in day-to-day.

Dagonthir · March 2016

Just want to say that some people don't enjoy farming mats. We just want to harvest mats while we are out questing. So to do this on all of out characters, we then need to level up all of the crafting skills on all of our characters, which isn't fun.

It seems that some people are defining their enjoyment of the game by limiting other players' access to mats. As if giving everyone access to all levels of nodes would harm their enjoyment somehow. This is just a game guys, this isn't capitalism. Playing a game shouldn't be work, it should be fun. Fun is the only thing it should be. And it's not fun for some of us to have to work on crafting on all of our characters. Can you guys please appreciate that? I would like to work toward some sort of compromise, like maybe a material bank where you can trade in materials for other levels of that material. Maybe if you trade it, it's "Bind on Acquire" so that you can't just take it and sell it. Or something like that. The system as-is is most definitely not cool because it gets in the way of some people having fun (more the casual players I suspect).

Pr0jektile · March 2016

Dagonthir wrote: »

Just want to say that some people don't enjoy farming mats. We just want to harvest mats while we are out questing. So to do this on all of out characters, we then need to level up all of the crafting skills on all of our characters, which isn't fun.

It seems that some people are defining their enjoyment of the game by limiting other players' access to mats. As if giving everyone access to all levels of nodes would harm their enjoyment somehow. This is just a game guys, this isn't capitalism. Playing a game shouldn't be work, it should be fun. Fun is the only thing it should be. And it's not fun for some of us to have to work on crafting on all of our characters. Can you guys please appreciate that? I would like to work toward some sort of compromise, like maybe a material bank where you can trade in materials for other levels of that material. Maybe if you trade it, it's "Bind on Acquire" so that you can't just take it and sell it. Or something like that. The system as-is is most definitely not cool because it gets in the way of some people having fun (more the casual players I suspect).

This WOULD dilute others' experience, and yes, it IS capitalism. The game has its own economy. Limiting access to nodes is what creates scarcity, which is what drives prices up, which is what makes a V16 Gold item more valuable than a Lvl 3 White item. If it didn't take more work to get higher level resources, there wouldn't be any reward for those who do work at it.

You do not have to work on crafting on all of your characters. You don't even have to work on crafting on any of your characters. You can simply buy the gear you need. There are plenty of people who enjoy crafting for the gold that would be more than willing to help you out for an appropriate cost.

To be honest, I think it's more than fair that the only inconvenience you have is transferring mats from one character to another.

The problem is that this game is competitive multi-player. Crafting is one of those pieces that is competitive. It can make the difference in PvP if you've crafted the right gear. Since it can be translated into a tangible difference in competition with other players, they have to limit access to it. Otherwise, we'd all just be playing on the test servers.

MMO's are work. They are not designed to be pick-up games, they're meant to put time and effort into to develop a character.

Dagonthir · March 2016

Ok, the game has its own economy. The real problem for some of us is that we've done the work on crafting like anyone else, we just didn't do it on one character. We did it across multiple characters. So this scaling mechanic definitely hurts the people who did crafting that way. Honestly, the scaling would be fine if that had been the rules all along since the game launched - we'd just have planned accordingly from the beginning. But that's not what they did, so suddenly the rules changed with Orsinium and kind of screwed over the people who didn't do crafting on one character, and that sucks.

I think that if players could harvest nodes and then transform the materials into another level of that material up to one of their other characters levels, and that transformed material was bound to the account, then that would satisfy the casual gamers' needs by allowing us to harvest as we quest, and also avoid breaking the economy.

Necrelios · March 2016

goatlyonesub17_ESO wrote: »

So that's what's going on. I had wondered why my Enchanting-Level-50 VR16 Sorc was getting only Level 1 runestones in Wrothgar. After I had finished making her into a Master Enchanter, I respec'd her skill points, removing the ones in Enchanting so I would have more points for the other skill lines.

Yeah, you not only have to be a so called "Master" in the profession, but then you have to put all those skill points into it too. I agree with the OP, it would be nice if the nodes would just scale to your champion points with the removal of Veteran Ranks. Right now you might be a max level crafter, but you still have to waste all those points just for a chance at the correct resources for your level. It doesn't really make sense.